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  1. #4071

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    You're welcome to ask me whatever you need to to arrive at a proper conclusion.



    You're absolutely correct. Most ENTJ descriptions jive with me in a very limited way. The only one that I've ever read that resonated was the one at Best Fit Type, which felt like something I could have written myself. Due to that fact, I've frequently questioned my own type, and wondered if there might be something that's more suitable. And after much research there's just nothing that makes more sense for me, even though I'd be content being virtually anything else.



    I was doing my best to remain civil because my goal was ultimately to have what I thought heard. That's it. That's all. I'm not a male NTJ, and don't feel the need to engage you nor anyone else in silly he-man games as a result. To be a woman and to be effective means a very different thing than to be a man and want to do the same. And ultimately all I ever want is to ensure that the things I want to happen, occur.

    Now let's discuss why my type has even come up at all. In all honesty, I think the primary reason that you don't feel I'm ENTJ has nothing to do with what I've said or how I've represented myself, and everything to do with the fact that you would not do the same if our positions were reversed. There is a reason for that. We are not the same type.

    Now it's possible neither of us are ENTJ, or you're ENTJ and I'm ESFJ, or even that we're both ducks. But what is most likely is that you are ESFJ and I am ENTJ. I've already spent too much of my Sunday explaining to you why that is, so I won't rehash it. In the meanwhile, you or one of the "numerous people who've repped you" about me being mistyped are more than welcome to air out whatever feelings they have about me. If they're not I'm just going to assume they either a)don't exist, or b) are a bunch of passive agressive pussies who are beneath notice in any case.

    Their choice.


    OK, well I reckon that post is a good one, hope your resistance and rationalisations dont screw with you too much outside of online forums.

    I'm fairly sure I'm not an ESFJ, the plethora of posts which required lots and lots of rationalisation as opposed to, well, just being self-evident sort of say why, and unlike yourself most of the descriptions of ENTJ jive pretty well with me and each of those functions I'm pretty sure I use consistently. That remark was a bit sexist about men BTW, funny in a sort of unintentional way.
    It is a luxury to be understood - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire

    A kind thought is the hope of the world - Anon

  2. #4072

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    Yeah. I'm blaming the Fi "I'm a special butterfly and therefore the rules that affect other people don't apply to me" fairy on this one for me. I don't know what everyone elses excuse is, though.


    So how long have you felt like a butterfly?
    It is a luxury to be understood - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire

    A kind thought is the hope of the world - Anon

  3. #4073

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I always trust my intuition, but overall I'm constantly second guessing myself. Especially my feelings.
    I've tried to develop my feeling function but its not me, I read a lot about art and music and I know people who have integrated feelings really well. I think feeling has a bad rap to be honest, as someone who'd like to improve my use of it I think its great.
    It is a luxury to be understood - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire

    A kind thought is the hope of the world - Anon

  4. #4074
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    So @RaptorWizard, are you content with INTJ? If not, what do you think of Fi and Fe as they apply to you?

  5. #4075
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I've tried to develop my feeling function but its not me, I read a lot about art and music and I know people who have integrated feelings really well. I think feeling has a bad rap to be honest, as someone who'd like to improve my use of it I think its great.
    Yeah, I've had to develop it a lot myself, which is something I've tried to communicate to people. I could still be a feeler to be certain, but when I was a teenager I was feeling-retarded. I repressed all my emotions, and I wasn't even good at acting happy and excited. That's not an INFP-ish thing, but I was not at my healthiest either. I didn't like feeling because the only examples of feeling types in my life then were very irrational and irritating people, so I've definitely had the anti-feeling bias. The more I develop feeling the more I like it, but I know that feeling=irrationality belief is partly still there. It's been a challenge to feel and still remain in balance.

  6. #4076

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Yeah, I've had to develop it a lot myself, which is something I've tried to communicate to people. I could still be a feeler to be certain, but when I was a teenager I was feeling-retarded. I repressed all my emotions, and I wasn't even good at acting happy and excited. That's not an INFP-ish thing, but I was not at my healthiest either. I didn't like feeling because the only examples of feeling types in my life then were very irrational and irritating people, so I've definitely had the anti-feeling bias. The more I develop feeling the more I like it, but I know that feeling=irrationality belief is partly still there. It's been a challenge to feel and still remain in balance.
    I think there's a general anti-feelings bias but among the working classes or poorer people, especially here there's a big "hard" culture, which is short hand for hard hearted or tough and unfeeling. Although that said teenage years can be like this too I think, all that unconsciously dealing with fear by becoming the thing you fear.

    I regret my teenage years.
    It is a luxury to be understood - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire

    A kind thought is the hope of the world - Anon

  7. #4077
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think there's a general anti-feelings bias but among the working classes or poorer people, especially here there's a big "hard" culture, which is short hand for hard hearted or tough and unfeeling. Although that said teenage years can be like this too I think, all that unconsciously dealing with fear by becoming the thing you fear.

    I regret my teenage years.
    Yeah, I agree. And that could explain why I like thug rap. :P

  8. #4078
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Ive decided it is better to keep ones type a secret from the forum in terms of it being visual next to your name.

    Except for enneagram, no one seems to mind as much about ennea. /exaggeration
    Well, it depends on the type of enneagram as to whether or not they get ticked (Fours might be more prone to being offended, and the "identity" minded types). But typically enneagram doesn't really dictate so specifically what your main modes of processing happen to be in the way that MBTI does.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #4079
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Although that said teenage years can be like this too I think, all that unconsciously dealing with fear by becoming the thing you fear.

  10. #4080
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    It is only if there was any sort of judgement attached to the fact that the average Feeler is typically less likely to rely on logic and more likely to take things personally than the average Thinker. What's wrong with making an appeal to ethos or pathos before logos? What I take exception to is when people are clearly appealing to the former two, and expect it to be taken as the latter. That's troublesome to me.
    [...]
    My point was less about misconceptions and more about misplaced values. Ideally, we wouldn't disparage the Feeling viewpoint such that Feelers felt they had to be anything but themselves. The contempt in my previous post was leveled squarely at pretenders--those with a clear preference for Fe or Fi trying pass off those things as Te or Ti who get butt hurt when you make the mistake of treating them like you would another Thinker.
    I'm going to have a hard time phrasing my thoughts here, but I'll give it a shot.

    It boils down to the sentiment of: if we didn't pre-judge every member of the type as though they were what we conceive of as the average member of the type, we wouldn't be dissuading folks from labeling themselves as such-and-such a type.

    To that end, your statements here about the average are arguably true. But statistical syllogisms are nasty, nasty beasts and can lead us to faulty conclusions about individual members of a set. Sometimes, those conclusions are subconscious and so they only indirectly affect our interactions, but they still ought to be called out and checked.

    Think of it this way: me masquarading, for instance, as a an ENFJ. I'd go around and being as blunt and oblivious to social cues as I usually am, doing my Te/Fi thing, and basically bastardizing the whole Fe-thing in the meanwhile. And if you or any of the other ENFJs on the site came across me being as blatantly not Fe as I am, I think you'd fully be within rights to be annoyed enough to call me out on it.
    This gives me the opportunity to rephrase the above in a different way.

    If one labels themselves as an ENFJ and they act in non-ENFJ ways, and if we treat type as an objective construct (laffo), there are a few possible explanations. Either they're not ENFJ, or our definition of "ENFJ" and "non-ENFJ" are off-kilter and need to be adjusted.

    We're not as open to that second possibility as we ought to be, and I believe that it's much higher than we think. Our working definitions are probably too narrow.

    After all, sentiments such as
    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    You're absolutely correct. Most ENTJ descriptions jive with me in a very limited way.
    indicate that those who write descriptions--and also, presumably, most of us--know jack shit about what it actually means to be a certain type, or at least how broad the types actually are.

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