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  1. #3901
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    (And it's not because I resist being categorized; I just like to have convincing reasoning to choose one thing over another.)
    Green in one Universe you could be a 5 in the box and in another Universe you could be a 9 obliterated from the box. I hope fortune smiles upon you as you pick which one to put yourself inside of as not only will it dictate your type but also your very destiny as your life would literally depend on it according to the quantum theory illustrated in the schrodinger's cat in the box metaphor.


  2. #3902
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    That sounds reasonable, and I will be one of the first to agree that extenuating circumstances affect type in such a way as to make some people either atypical or untypable. However, for people without those circumstances the system is pretty useful, and going about it as I suggested fits with the system.



    Traits are not that straightforward, nor are they or the corresponding types as obvious as colors. You're taking a vague type with vague characteristics, which can be shared by other types, and then picking out one to categorize someone as one of those vague types. That neither gives you an accurate understanding of the whole picture, nor does it really fit with the system because you're not following distinctions. You're following the logic that all people of a type have X characteristic, and as you said yourself, there are 16 types for 7 billion people; so really that's kind of irrational. If you're categorizing people based on a single trait using generalizations, that has in it the possibility for error. So you can't persist in your conclusions if the subject is shown to be outside the area of the generalization.

    Whether or not I feel the need to prove my intelligence has nothing to do with the truth of my arguments.

    As to your comment, I recently wrote a paper on Epicurus for one of my philosophy classes, and I like to apply what I learn to life. I like connecting ideas and discussing philosophy. The fact that you view it as pontification rather than a chance to explore truth would suggest that you don't like objectively discussing ideas as much as the standard INTP, if I am to follow your line of reasoning.

    "conformity of the subjective experience and personal essence to definition and rational understanding, something Fi is resistant to;."

    Wrong. I have said many times that this does not apply to me. At all. And I've explained why in great detail. If you don't bother to read my posts, don't bother to try to type me. Do you have any other (erroneous) information on which to base a type opinion? And you didn't answer my question, I asked for a full profile of my motivations to fit in as they apply to the cognitive functions, as I described; you only picked out one, which doesn't translate to a type. If you can't, I'd say you have no grounds on which to correlate my motivations with type.

    The whole point of types is to analyze behavior. So naturally you base typings on certain characteristics otherwise it's just arbitrarily calling people by four letter codes. The letter signify certain traits shared by people within a type. If you don't assume people of type groups share characteristics than what is the basis or personality signifiers xxxx or xwx? They indicate that the person has certain traits.


    Needing to prove intelligence does affect your arguments when you attempt to alter definitions to suit how you would like to see yourself. It's a system. If you disregard all the laws of the system then it becomes truly useless.


    By all means Show me how subjective I am because I dislike irrelevant posturing.



    I don't really care about your type and I'm not going to write a paper on it or read all Your posts. You called me into this conversation, soliciting my thoughts on your type. We had several long correspondences where I've explained my perceptions of you based on things you've stated in your posts.

  3. #3903
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    The whole point of types is to analyze behavior. So naturally you base typings on certain characteristics otherwise it's just arbitrarily calling people by four letter codes. The letter signify certain traits shared by people within a type. If you don't assume people of type groups share characteristics than what is the basis or personality signifiers xxxx or xwx? They indicate that the person has certain traits.
    Type characteristics are only trends and generalizations. Otherwise there would be a list of traits for each type, and everyone of that type would have all of them, and anyone who had only 9/10 would be excluded from the type. So then you modify it to be the majority of traits for one type and a minority for another, say 7 thinking traits and 3 feeling traits- but then you run into a problem when someone has 5 thinking traits and 5 feeling traits. Also there's no one person or committee to make said list. Maybe I have 4 feeling traits and 6 thinking traits based on one list, and 6 feeling traits and 4 thinking traits based on another person's. Maybe I have my own ideas of things to add to the list and that skews the results accordingly. Maybe you think I have a trait that I don't have, as illustrated before. It's not that simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Needing to prove intelligence does affect your arguments web you attempt to alter definitions to suit how you would like to see yourself.
    I think once again you are projecting things onto me which aren't there. If you think I am altering definitions, please find official definitions which contradict mine; I'll be glad to retract my statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    By all means Show me how subjective I am because I dislike irrelevant posturing.
    Just showing how your thinking can be turned around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I don't really care about your type and I'm not going to write a paper on it or read all Ti posts. You called me into this conversation, soliciting my joints on your type. We had several long correspondences where I've explained my perceptions of you based on things you've stated in your posts.
    I didn't ask you to read Ti posts. You implied Fi, despite the fact that I've posted many times to the effect that I use Fe- making me INFJ not INFP, if you are suggesting I am INFP. I called you into the discussion to see if you had a problem with me typing as INFJ.

    Evidently you cared quite a lot about my type in the past, as you argued with me about not being INTP. I'm glad you don't care anymore.

  4. #3904
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    So your proposing a state of personality neutrality where there are no overriding tendencies or preferences for problem solving. An ├╝bermensch or an inert mess of a person.

  5. #3905
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Evidently you cared quite a lot about my type in the past, as you argued with me about not being INTP. I'm glad you don't care anymore.
    Aha, but you aren't an INTP anymore. You have slipped past the net of 'wannabe INTP' therefore you are not a threat or of interest.

    All shall be organised in perception! And once you are placed...there is no getting out. But dont worry, there will be things to do inside the cage, ive carved little picture-stories in my bars...what will you do with yours I wonder?
    'Consciousness is not simply a sensory-perceptual affair, a matter of mental imagery, as the contents of our mind would have us believe. It is deeply enmeshed with the brain mechanisms that automatically promote action readiness' - Jaak Panksepp

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  6. #3906
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    INFJ: probably.
    9-2-6. Interesting. I never thought of myself as the first two. I feel like all of these motivations apply to everyone, and trying to rank them in order is kind of useless; it seems like it's better to just discern in which situations one has which motivations and then follow the corresponding advice. That's my opinion on the system, but it's not one I use. You could be right. The thing is, since I think everyone has them at one time or another, if one doesn't jump out as being primary I probably won't get anywhere; I could pick out all of these at different times if I dug deep enough into my psychology; and since I don't have every situation I've ever been in to assess at once, I could just list a bunch of them for each number. It sounds overwhelming. Do you have a shortcut? The test was relatively inconclusive because I was evenly split between 4 or 5 numbers.

    (And it's not because I resist being categorized; I just like to have convincing reasoning to choose one thing over another.)
    I dunno, you just seem be really big on peace, harmony and natural balance. other than that, your overall vibe is very 9-ish. I'll add more if I can think of how to explain it better.
    PS: tests won't tell you anything
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
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  7. #3907
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Aha, but you aren't an INTP anymore. You have slipped past the net of 'wannabe INTP' therefore you are not a threat or of interest.

    All shall be organised in perception! And once you are placed...there is no getting out. But dont worry, there will be things to do inside the cage, ive carved little picture-stories in my bars...what will you do with yours I wonder?
    Lol. Hey if we're in the same cage, we can play games! How about strip Scrabble??

  8. #3908
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    @EJCC
    you seem like a clear 7 fixer to me. I'd say ESTJ 1w2>7w6>3w? Sp/So
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
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    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  9. #3909
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    @EJCC
    you seem like a clear 7 fixer to me. I'd say ESTJ 1w2>7w6>3w? Sp/So
    Interesting. I've never been sure of my tritype, so thanks for starting this conversation up.

    What makes you say that I'm a "clear" 7w6 fix, as opposed to 6w7?

    Edit: Although I'm almost certainly on the cusp, between Sp/So and So/Sp, I ended up deciding on So/Sp because I do have an eye for interpersonal networks and dynamics. I think I have more of a natural ability to understand others' relationships with one another, than to understand them personally/individually. The problem is, I have a hard time distinguishing the above from Te/Si (i.e. a natural understanding of hierarchies), and I have a hard time distinguishing my occasional strong Sp moments from Fi/4 (i.e. withdrawing into yourself under stress).

    Another edit: If you're right, then that would mean that there's an Enneagram difference between me and @SD45T-2; I relate to him a whole lot in terms of us both being 1w2 and ESTJ, and I can see myself in his interaction style, if not as much his posting style. (I am so much less concise than him! ) But at the same time, I've always felt that there was something different in there, that made him more subdued and self-contained, and a little milder, perhaps, but I was never sure how much that had to do with life experience -- something that SD and I have talked about in detail.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #3910
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Interesting. I've never been sure of my tritype, so thanks for starting this conversation up.
    What makes you say that I'm a "clear" 7w6 fix, as opposed to 6w7?
    Edit: Although I'm almost certainly on the cusp, between Sp/So and So/Sp, I ended up deciding on So/Sp because I do have an eye for interpersonal networks and dynamics. I think I have more of a natural ability to understand others' relationships with one another, than to understand them personally/individually. The problem is, I have a hard time distinguishing the above from Te/Si (i.e. a natural understanding of hierarchies), and I have a hard time distinguishing my occasional strong Sp moments from Fi/4 (i.e. withdrawing into yourself under stress).
    Another edit: If you're right, then that would mean that there's an Enneagram difference between me and @SD45T-2; I relate to him a whole lot in terms of us both being 1w2 and ESTJ, and I can see myself in his interaction style, if not as much his posting style. (I am so much less concise than him! ) But at the same time, I've always felt that there was something different in there, that made him more subdued and self-contained, and a little milder, perhaps, but I was never sure how much that had to do with life experience -- something that SD and I have talked about in detail.
    - you're unusually Sanguine for an ESTJ, particularly and ESTJ 1
    - SJs with a 7 fix tend to have stronger Ne and be more interested in exploring new ideas

    I sort of thought Sp first because you seem to keep to yourself more/be more focused on perfecting your own life, habits etc as opposed to society at large. Sp/So understands hierarchies too, they just tend to view them as a means rather than an ends. So dom 1w2s are extremely political (though an Sp/So 1w2 could be as well) and focused on social reform and improving society
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

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