User Tag List

First 290340380388389390391392400440490 Last

Results 3,891 to 3,900 of 7100

  1. #3891

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    How can you have motives without first having thought processes? To be more clear, I think NFs tend to have these ideas about fitting in/ not fitting because of how they experience and think of the world.
    Yes. But even if motives originate from thought processes, it remains unclear which type would be motivated to do what.

    I can agree with the supposition that there may be a pre-inclined disposition of say an Fe dominant individual to objectively evaluate what their motivations are through extroverted feeling - but what the motivation by itself would be cannot be determined through thought processes.

    In other words, you can type a person in JCF as a particular type based on what their thought processes are, but not based on what their motivations are.

    The realm of motivation is Enneagram and social behaviour is instincts -- especially with regards to wanting to fit in and belonging ... It's just much better explained there than Jung or Meyers ever did.

    However, the core difference also is that Enneagrams are very much a psycho-spiritual system as opposed to pure psychology - which is what Jung is. MBTI and Kiersey however, is Pop Culture psychology in my opinion and using them in conjunction with JCF is detrimental to typing methodology. If one wants to analyse themselves purely, then they need to study Jung with the knowledge that MBTI and Kiersey are based off of his work.

    They all want to talk about the same thing - but they're not all completely accurate. By putting it all together into 1 system, you may have a relatively complete psychological profile of an individual.

  2. #3892
    Senor Membrae Eugene Watson VIII's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    MBTI
    iSFP
    Enneagram
    idk sp
    Posts
    832

    Default

    Greenfairy is a very special NF. Just like me.
    Myers-Briggs: xsFP

    Enneagram: 9?-4wX?-5/6

    ~ People don't think it be like it is, but it do. ~

  3. #3893

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I think a good method for distinguishing I and E preferences is to look at the dominant and inferior functions;
    This again fails if an ENTP is not a stereotypical E-Type 739 trifixer. If you take a look at unhealthy Type 7 behaviours and Naomi Quenk's Inferior Si description, you'll notice a lot of over-lap.

    For example: Unhealthy behaviours in Inferior Si

    For ENTPs and ENFPs in the grip of inferior Introverted Sensing, the inward focus of energy is unfamiliar and disturbing.The diminution of Extraverted energy results in feelings of sadness and despair.Tertiary Thinking or Feeling may emerge as well. For ENTPs this comes out in a conviction that no one understands them or cares about them; they may become emotional and vulnerable in this state. ENFPs may demonstrate perverse logic and accuse others of not being rational, insisting that logic is the only acceptable criterion for making a decision.
    In mildly stressful or fatiguing situations, an uneasiness about facts comes out in projected form as a pickiness and obsessiveness about what would otherwise be judged by the Extraverted Intuitive type to be irrelevant detail.
    The above also sounds like a disintegration line to the 1.

    Compared with 7 Unhealthy behaviours:

    Level 6: Get into conspicuous consumption and all forms of excess. Self-centered, materialistic, and greedy, never feeling that they have enough. Demanding and pushy, yet unsatisfied and jaded. Addictive, hardened, and insensitive.

    Level 7: Desperate to quell their anxieties, can be impulsive and infantile: do not know when to stop. Addictions and excess take their toll: debauched, depraved, dissipated escapists, offensive and abusive.
    There's a lot more over-lap, but I pointed out what I noticed as most obvious. My guess is that ENxP's of different E-types that are non-typical will have [and probably do have] a harder time relating to the inferior function description --- because that too is based on observation of the most typical.

    Additional point is that Naomi Quenk lumped both ENTP's and ENFP's together.

    What this does is while there's talk of actual behaviour and relating back to cognitive functions, the assertions seem more shaky when Enneagram is added to the mix again.

    ENTP's and ENFP's most common E-Type is Type 7 ... however, type 9 and 4 is relatively more common for ENFP's than it is for ENTP's, while Type 3 and 8 is common for ENTP's and not for ENFP's which adds more elements of additional unhealthy behaviours which may or may not be entirely accurate for each specific individual.

    With all this complexity thrown into the mix, inferior function descriptions alone still fail at giving a complete map in the end. It's just one of the many tools available in my opinion.

  4. #3894
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I know, that's the defense. But I don't think it's the entire truth. I think people are unconsciously (and consciously) biased based on stereotypes and psychological attachments they have to them.


    Which is why its usefulness and accuracy in describing anything is limited proportionally.

    These somewhat arbitrary categories we are so fond of remind me of Epicurus' idea of forms and the criticisms of them. What it comes down to is that we have a thinking awareness independent from objects, and forms are what we use to make sense of those; however we can never have true knowledge of the objects or the forms themselves.

    Furthermore, if it's expected to not be a perfect fit and only a general outline, I think you just argued against your own opinion. I can't be faulted in persisting in my notion that I fit a type well enough though not perfectly, if it's not expected to fit perfectly, nor is any other type. If all types are an imperfect fit, then degree of imperfection is more or less entirely subjective, and arguing the point is fruitless.
    I can observe a color as being between blue and purple while recognizing that it is clearly not orange. A color wheel shows only a few colors from the spectrum but it is a use full guide still in observing colors.

    If you were an authority loving traditionalist I would call you an SJ. If you were and action oriented first responder I'd Go with SP.

    My uncemsored opinion is that you have a great desire to prove how smart you are to everyone, see above pontifications, and you falsely equivocate NT with intelligence. Hence the insitance that you are the übermensch existing as all type at all times. It's not impossible for dominant Fis to be interested in logic, but that dowsn't mean they become Ti dominant.

    It's pretty straight forward to me. Of you don't display XX traits you are probably no an XX.

  5. #3895
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You can't (actually "can't" is a bit strong, motives can be subconscious), but that's not the point. If you want to explain motives and behavior it's best to look into another system, say the enneagram for example, as it's something catered to what you're looking at (fitting in/not fitting in). I think that's what Phoenix was getting at. It's also easier to observe, since fixations bleed into your actions. Plus, I've seen my fair share of NTs complain about fitting into boxes. It is the reasoning behind it that differs. How they go about reasoning would be MBTI territory, but the 'why' would be enneagram territory.



    How do NFs experience and think of the world that would lead to such thinking then?
    Mostly thinking of dominant Fi users and their desire for individual integrity. They seem to have more righteous indignation than other types, who may dislike being labeled, but don't have such a "stance" against it.

  6. #3896
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    conformity of the subjective experience and personal essence to definition and rational understanding, something Fi is resistant to;.
    This one.

  7. #3897
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    @ilikeitlikethat not INTP. I think ESFP.
    Agreed. ESFP or maybe ESTP.
    Female
    INFJ
    Enneagram 6w5 sp/sx


    I DOORSLAMMING

  8. #3898
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    ESTP? I'm pretty sure I'm an N, but not sure I'm not an extrovert. So ENTP might be correct. Why do you think S? Or are you joking?
    Quite so, old chap. Quite so.
    I love Victorian England. I think in my past life in the 20's I was a ballerina in NY. (A very NT thing to say for sure.)
    That's what she said.
    Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
    Is this why you think I'm ESTP, UniqueMixture? lol
    them typing you as an Se dom is kinda ridiculous. I think you're INFJ 9w1 Sx/So
    as for your tritype
    gut: 9w1 (specifically 9w1sw1w2, ie, 9w1 with a strong wing as opposed to a 9w1 with more balanced wings)
    heart: 2w3, 2w1 or 4w5
    head: 6w7 or 7w6
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  9. #3899
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    MBTI
    iNfj
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,042

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    This again fails if an ENTP is not a stereotypical E-Type 739 trifixer. If you take a look at unhealthy Type 7 behaviours and Naomi Quenk's Inferior Si description, you'll notice a lot of over-lap.

    For example: Unhealthy behaviours in Inferior Si





    The above also sounds like a disintegration line to the 1.

    Compared with 7 Unhealthy behaviours:



    There's a lot more over-lap, but I pointed out what I noticed as most obvious. My guess is that ENxP's of different E-types that are non-typical will have [and probably do have] a harder time relating to the inferior function description --- because that too is based on observation of the most typical.

    Additional point is that Naomi Quenk lumped both ENTP's and ENFP's together.

    What this does is while there's talk of actual behaviour and relating back to cognitive functions, the assertions seem more shaky when Enneagram is added to the mix again.

    ENTP's and ENFP's most common E-Type is Type 7 ... however, type 9 and 4 is relatively more common for ENFP's than it is for ENTP's, while Type 3 and 8 is common for ENTP's and not for ENFP's which adds more elements of additional unhealthy behaviours which may or may not be entirely accurate for each specific individual.

    With all this complexity thrown into the mix, inferior function descriptions alone still fail at giving a complete map in the end. It's just one of the many tools available in my opinion.
    That sounds reasonable, and I will be one of the first to agree that extenuating circumstances affect type in such a way as to make some people either atypical or untypable. However, for people without those circumstances the system is pretty useful, and going about it as I suggested fits with the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I can observe a color as being between blue and purple while recognizing that it is clearly not orange. A color wheel shows only a few colors from the spectrum but it is a use full guide still in observing colors.

    If you were an authority loving traditionalist I would call you an SJ. If you were and action oriented first responder I'd Go with SP.

    My uncemsored opinion is that you have a great desire to prove how smart you are to everyone, see above pontifications, and you falsely equivocate NT with intelligence. Hence the insitance that you are the übermensch existing as all type at all times. It's not impossible for dominant Fis to be interested in logic, but that dowsn't mean they become Ti dominant.

    It's pretty straight forward to me. Of you don't display XX traits you are probably no an XX.
    Traits are not that straightforward, nor are they or the corresponding types as obvious as colors. You're taking a vague type with vague characteristics, which can be shared by other types, and then picking out one to categorize someone as one of those vague types. That neither gives you an accurate understanding of the whole picture, nor does it really fit with the system because you're not following distinctions. You're following the logic that all people of a type have X characteristic, and as you said yourself, there are 16 types for 7 billion people; so really that's kind of irrational. If you're categorizing people based on a single trait using generalizations, that has in it the possibility for error. So you can't persist in your conclusions if the subject is shown to be outside the area of the generalization.

    Whether or not I feel the need to prove my intelligence has nothing to do with the truth of my arguments.

    As to your comment, I recently wrote a paper on Epicurus for one of my philosophy classes, and I like to apply what I learn to life. I like connecting ideas and discussing philosophy. The fact that you view it as pontification rather than a chance to explore truth would suggest that you don't like objectively discussing ideas as much as the standard INTP, if I am to follow your line of reasoning.

    "conformity of the subjective experience and personal essence to definition and rational understanding, something Fi is resistant to;."
    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    This one.
    Wrong. I have said many times that this does not apply to me. At all. And I've explained why in great detail. If you don't bother to read my posts, don't bother to try to type me. Do you have any other (erroneous) information on which to base a type opinion? And you didn't answer my question, I asked for a full profile of my motivations to fit in as they apply to the cognitive functions, as I described; you only picked out one, which doesn't translate to a type. If you can't, I'd say you have no grounds on which to correlate my motivations with type.

  10. #3900
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    MBTI
    iNfj
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,042

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    them typing you as an Se dom is kinda ridiculous. I think you're INFJ 9w1 Sx/So
    as for your tritype
    gut: 9w1 (specifically 9w1sw1w2, ie, 9w1 with a strong wing as opposed to a 9w1 with more balanced wings)
    heart: 2w3, 2w1 or 4w5
    head: 6w7 or 7w6
    INFJ: probably.
    9-2-6. Interesting. I never thought of myself as the first two. I feel like all of these motivations apply to everyone, and trying to rank them in order is kind of useless; it seems like it's better to just discern in which situations one has which motivations and then follow the corresponding advice. That's my opinion on the system, but it's not one I use. You could be right. The thing is, since I think everyone has them at one time or another, if one doesn't jump out as being primary I probably won't get anywhere; I could pick out all of these at different times if I dug deep enough into my psychology; and since I don't have every situation I've ever been in to assess at once, I could just list a bunch of them for each number. It sounds overwhelming. Do you have a shortcut? The test was relatively inconclusive because I was evenly split between 4 or 5 numbers.

    (And it's not because I resist being categorized; I just like to have convincing reasoning to choose one thing over another.)

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • :bye:
  • :hi:
  • :)
  • :hug:
  • :happy2:
  • :smile:
  • :wubbie:
  • :D
  • :wink:
  • ;)
  • :newwink:
  • :(
  • :cry:
  • :mad:
  • :dry:
  • :doh:
  • :huh:
  • :shock:
  • :shrug:
  • :blush:

Similar Threads

  1. TypeCentral Members Psychoanalyze Your Avatar for Free
    By ThatsWhatHeSaid in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 6892
    Last Post: 07-20-2017, 01:20 PM
  2. Replies: 126
    Last Post: 03-22-2016, 08:15 AM
  3. TypeCentral Members- Casting Call as Disney Characters
    By CuriousFeeling in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 260
    Last Post: 03-06-2016, 03:10 AM
  4. TypeCentral Members- Cast them as musicians
    By CuriousFeeling in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 201
    Last Post: 09-21-2015, 04:35 PM
  5. It's a mystery. (moved from Mistyped MBTIC Members)
    By entropie in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 07-31-2008, 06:24 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO