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  1. #3871
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    I disagree. But would like you to elaborate on your thoughts.

    Fitting in, or not wanting to fit in is a motive, not a cognitive process as far as I can tell. In other words .. Enneagram as opposed to JCF.
    Thanks for agreeing. It seems everything that isn't blatantly NT is NF. As far as my motivation for not fitting into boxes: as I've said many times, I started out really wanting to fit into a box, because I like to categorize things. I just see the big picture when I think, and ultimately it didn't work. Now I've been forced to mostly abandon the idea of putting people into boxes in general.

    And about Enneagram in regards to me: 5w4 is just a guess. I really have no idea. But I'm curious as to which number you are thinking this corresponds to.

  2. #3872

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Thanks for agreeing. It seems everything that isn't blatantly NT is NF. As far as my motivation for not fitting into boxes: as I've said many times, I started out really wanting to fit into a box, because I like to categorize things. I just see the big picture when I think, and ultimately it didn't work. Now I've been forced to mostly abandon the idea of putting people in boxes in general.
    We have Kiersey, MBTI and their stereotypes to thank for this. MBTI is based on studying individuals and adds an element of behaviour of the most stereotypical Etype+JCF type combination. E.G. ESFJ and Type 2 are heavily correlated. Type 7 and EP are extremely well correlated.

    The problem occurs when one has an uncommon JCF and Enneagram combination [Mental illnesses also play a role btw - I have a couple which keep me from typing myself accurately as well]. There's no complete description out there for people who have an uncommon combination. This is something I've observed the most amongst Fe-Ti individuals who seem to have the hardest time --- especially if they have a 4 in their Enneagram somewhere.

    The best way to go about analysing your brain is to separate the motivations [Enneagram] from the thought processing [JCF] - and of course keep in mind any disorders, traumas etc that may be further influencing difficulty in perfect relating to descriptions.

  3. #3873
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Fitting in, or not wanting to fit in is a motive, not a cognitive process as far as I can tell. In other words .. Enneagram as opposed to JCF.
    Fitting in or not doing so is a goal. Why does someone want to fit in? In what sense, and in what setting? As far as I understand, the basic need for affiliation is a human quality. It is in how we interpret and pursue it that our differences are manifest.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #3874
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    We have Kiersey, MBTI and their stereotypes to thank for this. MBTI is based on studying individuals and adds an element of behaviour of the most stereotypical Etype+JCF type combination. E.G. ESFJ and Type 2 are heavily correlated. Type 7 and EP are extremely well correlated.

    The problem occurs when one has an uncommon JCF and Enneagram combination [Mental illnesses also play a role btw - I have a couple which keep me from typing myself accurately as well]. There's no complete description out there for people who have an uncommon combination. This is something I've observed the most amongst Fe-Ti individuals who seem to have the hardest time --- especially if they have a 4 in their Enneagram somewhere.

    The best way to go about analysing your brain is to separate the motivations [Enneagram] from the thought processing [JCF] - and of course keep in mind any disorders, traumas etc that may be further influencing difficulty in perfect relating to descriptions.
    That's a good point! I hadn't really thought much about relating the two systems (but that's only because I have little interest in Enneagram).

  5. #3875
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Ok. I've tentatively decided on iNfj for now, so you can all feel happy and secure in the image of me as an NF. The box isn't a bad fit, even if parts of me stick out sometimes. It's warm and comfortable in here; the INTX box was starting to feel cold and hard.


    Edit: etc. (anyone else who has a problem with me being INTX), any of you got a problem with INFJ? Speak now or forever hold your peace.
    FWIW, I always pegged you as an NFP. Leaning towards INFP. Going off of my rather pat heuristic that anyone who vascilates too much around type is probably a P, and more specifically an FP. You also come off as Ne>Ni.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  6. #3876
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    We have Kiersey, MBTI and their stereotypes to thank for this. MBTI is based on studying individuals and adds an element of behaviour of the most stereotypical Etype+JCF type combination.
    For this reason, I personally divorce the 'JCF type system' from 'MBTI' since the latter focuses much more on behavior. We lump JCF, MBTI, and Kiersey together into the same system, and I'm not sure why because it muddies the water way too much.

    [Mental illnesses also play a role btw - I have a couple which keep me from typing myself accurately as well].
    Same here. It's a bit frustrating in those moments where I decide to try to take it somewhat seriously.

  7. #3877

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Fitting in or not doing so is a goal. Why does someone want to fit in? In what sense, and in what setting? As far as I understand, the basic need for affiliation is a human quality. It is in how we interpret and pursue it that our differences are manifest.
    But to set a goal, one has to have a motive, right? If I don't have any motive to fit in, or not to fit in, then I wouldn't establish that as a goal in the first place.

    JCF is a system of preferred evaluations ... making decisions ... reaching conclusions. Anyone can reach any decision/conclusion ... One needs to more closely analyse how they do it and what they prefer as opposed to specifically what they actually do.

  8. #3878

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    That's a good point! I hadn't really thought much about relating the two systems (but that's only because I have little interest in Enneagram).
    I didn't see the correlations till I studied both systems simultaneously. I kept reference points. I broke apart the entire plathora of descriptions of all JCF's, Enneagrams, MBTI, Kiersey, Lenore THomson and Naomi Quenk and mentally noted all the over-laps, broke them down further into categories of which description is the strongest for which particular type and then finally applied the ones that I most prefer as thought processes and exhibit as repeated patterns of behaviour across my life.

    And the problem is that I still couldn't come up with the best-fit type ... which I've left to ENTP Type 4w3 sx/sp [with 5w4 and 8w9 fixes] at this point.

    Mind you ... this is before I realized that a lot of my behaviour and even thought processes are still greatly influenced due to PTSD and rapid cycling Bipolar I.

    I like the complexity of the systems themselves and breaking them down in itself has been a satisfying experience for me. That alone helped me grow and understand myself better in the end

  9. #3879
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Fitting in or not doing so is a goal. Why does someone want to fit in? In what sense, and in what setting? As far as I understand, the basic need for affiliation is a human quality. It is in how we interpret and pursue it that our differences are manifest.
    Those who fit in best don't try to fit in. I think they just wind up affiliating with a group because they are passionate about something else.

  10. #3880
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    But to set a goal, one has to have a motive, right? If I don't have any motive to fit in, or not to fit in, then I wouldn't establish that as a goal in the first place.

    JCF is a system of preferred evaluations ... making decisions ... reaching conclusions. Anyone can reach any decision/conclusion ... One needs to more closely analyse how they do it and what they prefer as opposed to specifically what they actually do.
    Exactly. That is my point. It is not about behavior, but about the whys and hows, even in MBTI. Why does someone want (or not want) to fit in? In what way do they want to fit in? What does "fitting in" mean to them? What kind of group do they want to fit into, and where do they actually feel comfortable? What are they willing to do/sacrifice to fit in? How do they feel/react if rejected or eventually kicked out? As I mentioned on some thread (here?), any type can exhibit any behavior, but will have different reasons and methods for doing so.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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