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  1. #2621
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggletron View Post
    why do so many ISFPs have their Ni on steroids?
    Oh my geez, I use Ni?? And it's on steroids?? Damn, I'm awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  2. #2622
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Fug it. I'm ISFP as usual. Unless someone has a better idea.
    Anyone with dude in their username gets extra points in favour of SP.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  3. #2623
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't have many problems being liked by others per se. By socially retarded I mean being socially retarded in some kind of moral/ethical sense.. especially in terms of social boundaries and such (which could be Fi PoLR).
    I was actually making a general statement about ESTPs and was using the INFJ as comparison, since they're the most potentially socially-savvy type in adulthood who may nonetheless have an awkward adolescence, simply due to how different they are from the general population. Based on the information you've provided I'd immediately type you as an ISTP and would be extremely sure of that assumption. Being "socially retarded in a moral/ethical sense" sounds absolutely nothing like Dominant Fi or Secondary Fe. Fi generally connotate a strong internal value system, and since you seem apt to perform actions that are against your own value system, your use of Fi seems less present than that found within even INTJs, who have Fi as their Tertiary function.

    You also sound extremely similar to an ISTP teacher that I once had, who was very much regarded as a geek all throughout high school and college but who was popular among his students as an adult, once he began to behave in a more extraverted manner. That makes sense, since as I stated in my previous post, ESTPs tend to be the very opposite of "socially retarded". They tend to be popular and are often the stereotypical high school jock.
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

  4. #2624

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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMoon View Post
    I was actually making a general statement about ESTPs and was using the INFJ as comparison, since they're the most potentially socially-savvy type in adulthood who may nonetheless have an awkward adolescence, simply due to how different they are from the general population. Based on the information you've provided I'd immediately type you as an ISTP and would be extremely sure of that assumption. Being "socially retarded in a moral/ethical sense" sounds absolutely nothing like Secondary Fi or Secondary Fe. Fi generally connotate a strong internal value system, and since you seem apt to perform actions that are against your own value system, your use of Fi seems less present than that found within even INTJs, who have Fi as their Tertiary function.

    You also sound extremely similar to an ISTP teacher that I once had, who was very much regarded as a geek all throughout high school and college but who was popular among his students as an adult, once he began to behave in a more extraverted manner. That makes sense, since as I stated in my previous post, ESTPs tend to be the very opposite of "socially retarded". They tend to be popular and are often the stereotypical high school jock.
    Fair enough.. I've considered it myself.

    Not to defend myself or anything, but I am slightly exagerrating on the whole "retardation" thing. Need to get that out of the way. Just stressing a point, that I kind of used to be a punk. I had plenty of moments where I was nicer and contradicted that, but I'd say something more "Fi like" showed up later on, via a lot of philosophical/spiritual eye opening and just seeing where I or where friends ended up. I suppose I wouldn't be the first T type who's done that. In fact, some ITPs here tell me they identify with Fi in some ways.

    On another note, I'm not sure jocks were ever popular in my school (early 90s.... gangster/grunge era). Everything was bizarre then. I mean, the closest I can think I was like was Charlie Sheen in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. And yet, I actually had friends.

  5. #2625
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Fair enough.. I've considered it myself.

    Not to defend myself or anything, but I am slightly exagerrating on the whole "retardation" thing. Need to get that out of the way. Just stressing a point, that I kind of used to be a punk. I had plenty of moments where I was nicer and contradicted that, but I'd say something more "Fi like" showed up later on, via a lot of philosophical/spiritual eye opening and just seeing where I or where friends ended up. I suppose I wouldn't be the first T type who's done that. In fact, some ITPs here tell me they identify with Fi in some ways.

    On another note, I'm not sure jocks were ever popular in my school (early 90s.... gangster/grunge era). Everything was bizarre then. I mean, the closest I can think I was like was Charlie Sheen in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. And yet, I actually had friends.
    It's not unusual for IxFPs to have a rebel streak. Especially when young, the feeling of being misunderstood or disconnected from the group consensus can lead you to reject social values. As you get older & less angsty, you may come to appreciate that many of these external values are connected to your inner ideals. I think intuition does help Fi-doms adjust their perspective, so they don't feel totally alienated. The alienation makes you not care about others because you cannot relate to them. INFPs may have this epiphany sooner, as we're Ne-aux.

    For myself, I don't remember my compassionate, caring side being apparent until I was in my late teens & it has taken all those years to grow into whatever it is now. Prior to that, I was mostly concerned about my identity and self-expression and all the stuff that e4s get wrapped up in :P. I also tested INTP, never INFP, and the idea of me being a "feeling" type, as I understood it then, was ridiculous. Basically, I'm just trying to illustrate that Fi is not all nicey-nice, especially when young & immature. That's why you see the polar opposite stereotypes of the Disney character Fi-dom and the cranky, self-absorbed artist Fi-dom.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  6. #2626
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    For myself, I don't remember my compassionate, caring side being apparent until I was in my late teens & it has taken all those years to grow into whatever it is now.
    +1
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  7. #2627
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    It's not unusual for IxFPs to have a rebel streak. Especially when young, the feeling of being misunderstood or disconnected from the group consensus can lead you to reject social values. As you get older & less angsty, you may come to appreciate that many of these external values are connected to your inner ideals. I think intuition does help Fi-doms adjust their perspective, so they don't feel totally alienated. The alienation makes you not care about others because you cannot relate to them. INFPs may have this epiphany sooner, as we're Ne-aux.

    For myself, I don't remember my compassionate, caring side being apparent until I was in my late teens & it has taken all those years to grow into whatever it is now. Prior to that, I was mostly concerned about my identity and self-expression and all the stuff that e4s get wrapped up in :P. I also tested INTP, never INFP, and the idea of me being a "feeling" type, as I understood it then, was ridiculous. Basically, I'm just trying to illustrate that Fi is not all nicey-nice, especially when young & immature. That's why you see the polar opposite stereotypes of the Disney character Fi-dom and the cranky, self-absorbed artist Fi-dom.
    Kdude, this right here is truth. Accept it, breath it, multiply with it.

    But really, I identify with this a whole lot. I don't have much to add, which is a pity. But I agree as usual.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  8. #2628
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    For myself, I don't remember my compassionate, caring side being apparent until I was in my late teens & it has taken all those years to grow into whatever it is now.
    I’m just not seeing the Dominant Fi in what KDude described. The vast majority of T types that I met in high school were far more tied to their values. This is especially true for SJ types, in whatever those value may be. Likewise, most of the SPs that I met from that period were indeed impulsive in the physical danger sense but were rather steadfast in adhering to their ideals. A large amount of people who are typed as Fs seem to be under the belief that being a T type means being an amoral sociopath or an emotionless robot, which of course, simply isn’t true. Showing the slightest bit of regard for other people doesn’t automatically make someone an F.

    -I don’t agree with the idea that it’s normal for people’s personalities to do a 360 as long as they’re below the age of 18. Most people seem to have their personality fairly set in stone by the time they reach high school.
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

  9. #2629
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMoon View Post
    I’m just not seeing the Dominant Fi in what KDude described. The vast majority of T types that I met in high school were far more tied to their values. This is especially true for SJ types, in whatever those value may be. Likewise, most of the SPs that I met from that period were indeed impulsive in the physical danger sense but were rather steadfast in adhering to their ideals. A large amount of people who are typed as Fs seem to be under the belief that being a T type means being an amoral sociopath or an emotionless robot, which of course, simply isn’t true. Showing the slightest bit of regard for other people doesn’t automatically make someone an F.

    -I don’t agree with the idea that it’s normal for people’s personalities to do a 360 as long as they’re below the age of 18. Most people seem to have their personality fairly set in stone by the time they reach high school.
    That's not the idea being expressed. I didn't do a 180 - I matured and got a better perspective on the external world, allowing me to express & refine my ideals, which meant they began to involve other people. I even saw myself more clearly - the idea of me ever being an INTP is ridiculous to me now.

    Most people's aux and tert functions get "better" with age. In particular, the aux function is called the "parent" function, meaning it nurtures the dominant function. Since Feeling is turned inward for a Fi-dom, it can take time to relate it to external things, to know how to express it in terms others can grasp. So you don't see the "warm" side of Fi in many young Fi-dom. As their perceiving functions develop, then you see the values manifested in reality in ways that aren't selfish.

    I notice the Fi-doms above understood my point, and as a Fi-dom who has talked to kdude a fair a mount, for him NOT to be Fi is silly to me. I think the misconception about feeling aways being "nice" IS part of the problem.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  10. #2630
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    That's not the idea being expressed. I didn't do a 180 - I matured and got a better perspective on the external world, allowing me to express & refine my ideals, which meant they began to involve other people. I even saw myself more clearly - the idea of me ever being an INTP is ridiculous to me now.

    Most people's aux and tert functions get "better" with age. In particular, the aux function is called the "parent" function, meaning it nurtures the dominant function. Since Feeling is turned inward for a Fi-dom, it can take time to relate it to external things, to know how to express it in terms others can grasp. So you don't see the "warm" side of Fi in many young Fi-dom. As their perceiving functions develop, then you see the values manifested in reality in ways that aren't selfish.

    I notice the Fi-doms above understood my point, and as a Fi-dom who has talked to kdude a fair a mount, for him NOT to be Fi is silly to me. I think the misconception about feeling aways being "nice" IS part of the problem.
    Definitely I think this is why at first I thought I was a "Thinker" because I wasn't exactly people aware. Like I didn't really start getting the idea of "others" till after my father passed. I started seeing how it's not just my pain. Everybody has pain. I met someone a couple years after his passing who lost a parent to cancer also. And I had to really think it over "Should I say something?".

    Finally realized that we share this pain and maybe I should reach out to her. So I did. Because by my own internal code I will never say I understand someones pain unless I have felt it myself as I feel otherwise I'm dishonoring their realm of experience with the emotion. Well unfortunate on both fronts I got to say it. I let her in, I told I was sorry for her loss and offered help if needed. During the whole ordeal prior, I was clueless to how I could reach out to others for emotional support in regards to letting people in or even being aware that I could let people in to what I was feeling. My ESFJ mother pointed me in that direction to at least let one friend know. I'm glad I did.

    Defintiely Fi is not this "fluffy" function either. I tended to be abit stubborn at a younger age when someone would try to get me to do something that didn't fit correctly with a value. I think Ne definitely has helped me to open my mind up to how others do things. People have reasons why they do things too. It's not just because they are enabling this or that. Maybe they listen to that person talk about their ever repeting problems because elsewise they'll have no way to release frustration with their life and may go crazy despite if I can see how they can change it or how they seem to be getting themselves into these problems. They are parents afterall. Needed to develop understanding, true understanding for others not just my internal world/thoughts and evaluations of their position from a limited Ji perspective.

    How could I ever understand that? I've never been through what these two have been through. When it was explained it made sense and I for once had some respect gained for my moms reasons instead of what I previously thought were excuses to enable/not fix the real problem. Guess I wasn't looking at the big picture then. Starting to see more and more everybody has their own reasons. Mine are mine alone. Learning to take time to understand "others" reasons.

    I used to wonder if I could be INTP but it's just not it. INFP is it. I just value reasoning but also gaining true understanding of people plus the aim of being a good/caring person. Not closeminded or judgemental as I know things are not like that in real life.

    I hope this is alright here. Kinda related to "mistyped members" as it's showing why perhaps? Or a different way of seeing somethings involving misconceptions about Fi which may lead to mistyping.

    For KDude It wouldn't surprise me that ITPs can identify with Fi as I could see where I could identify to Ti at times.
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

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