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  1. #1841
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Oy, I'm getting mixed messages. The smilie is telling me it's a joke, but I can't help seeing it said by the avatar, which makes it look dead serious.
    (to be sure; I should have said "the closest word to that is...")
    No I meant that jokingly . I wasnt quite sure what androgyn means, I remember something about a male that has woman tendencies or something, so I figured not knowing it, the best way to respond must be a threat .

    Me changing my type is basically not new. When I took the mbti test for the first time about a year ago I got ENTJ. But after reading its profile on typelogic.com I figured that the type sucks and tried it with entp. I saw a lot familiarities between my real self and what was described in the entp type. I continued to read on various sites about it, eventually stranding here. In the beginning it was like an identification system. You identified things you do or already did and finally found names for them a way to universally share them with others, which has never happened before. That was marvellous but it let to a great deal of misconceptions. For example, I really never met an entp, who likes to actually build gadgets. But I do, I got an automated door alarm, a electric circuit for a traffic light and the greatest thing I ever built was the automated turf cutting automaton, which is still a prototype. I though never found someone, who does that aswell, therefore I came into the first difficulties in understanding the system.

    The next thing I learnt about was the function system. And with that things went down the road. Firstly the thing about Ti and Te. According to the entp profile, I am supposed to be retrofitted with Ti. What made sense concerning my ability to write computer programs or build devices. What I never really saw tho was that I actually never did something without a purpose. All the things I programmed so far took place in a small business I founded with a colleague back in the days and we made a lot of money with. The turf cutting automaton I build to sell it for horrendous amounts of money to the rich neighbours here. The alarm doorstep I build after my family got robbed in our old home. The traffic lights I build for our bycycle racetrack, cause we figured that was it that was missing if you want to have a real short-run racing track. So it all fullfilled a purpose.

    But things got worse, a few times someone posted mathematical or logical riddles on the forum. And I remembered a crucial thing from my past. There was that guy who always impressed others with his riddles, even my girlfriend I had back in the days. I from the start refused to participate, cause I found it to be total bullshit. To solve a riddle about 3 guys smoke, 2 live in a yellow house and the third is gay, who owns a dog ? I found it to be intellectual sparing or showing off ones skills and I dread showoffs the most (prolly because I am one myself). Well this and then, in the forum the intp's attacked the riddles and occasionally the entp's loved em aswell. I was never one of them.

    The third thing I discovered through my university studies. Though I always say I hate diagramms, I catch myself more and more using a wide variety of logic diagramms in my new job. They make work so much easier and I love it to bring structure to chaos. I love it when the cogs turn after careful planning create a perfect working system, steaming and humming floating smoothly thru the ocean cutting the water in two equal halfs. Its just its nice.

    The Ti / Te issue but I forgot when a graver issue struck me. I got a conversation with my gf half a year ago and with heart from this forum too and that time I changed to enfp. There was a thing going on in ennegram which started the whole thing and there was the huge problem that it seemed all Fe user have a huge lack of morality or can be nothing else but naive. I was picked on in a thread, someone challenged my integrity and portraied me as being disloyal, just judging from my entp type and that stroke my heart, puncturing it on the first hit.

    My girlfriend as Enneagram 6 told me too in those days that I have a HUGE AMOUNT of feeling in me, which is quite introverted. And cause she is the only one I really trust, I figured enfp solves two problems at once. Turns the Ti to Te and the Fe to Fi.

    But, after a while I got to know an enfp guy more in the forums and he really was a cool and classic one. Someone I would call professional ladykiller. And I thought of myself: A) I am far too whiny to be like that B) I totally suck in understanding other peoples feelings and C) I am not cool . Therefore I fucked the enfp attempt up again and returned to the NT classic, which felt to be more right.

    After that then I discovered the next evolutional step for me after classical physics, namely Socionics. The types there were described much more holistically and I fell in love with it. I went thru it for like 5 months trieing to figure it out.

    Until I hit a dead end. Their way on describing my relationship with my infj was wrong. So I tried to figure if I may have mistyped her, but no that was not the case. Then I tried to forget about the whole shit, cause its all fucked up in any way but didnt work aswell. And then eventually I recalled what happened in the past, like I did here now and hit my forehead saying I am an idiot.

    That was when I typed myself ESTJ Cause I still figured ENTJ wont work. Well and then the rest developed until now developed with the help of friends from this site and people who now me for some time now.

    And I feel good, cause now my relationship to my INFJ fits perfectly. "The moth and the flame" they call it .

    I am growing tired of writing now, so I will cut short.

    I just wanted to say, what I was basically trieing is not to learn about myself thru the type system. Who I am I know, what I do I know and that cant be changed by noone. But I was trieing to blend in into the type system, I know it needs a lot of compromise and there are a lot of little things I forgot to mention now playing into it.

    But its nice, if you have found something that gave you such a unique way to connect with people and actually be able to talk about the different layers and facettes of a human life in a language other people understand like you do, you want to be part of it and not turn out to be fail.

    I know tho the system is nice on a paper but not always congruent with reality. Meaning I am writing from a healthy standpoint here, having the necessary psychological distance.

    *end of justification*

  2. #1842
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    No I meant that jokingly . I wasnt quite sure what androgyn means, I remember something about a male that has woman tendencies or something, so I figured not knowing it, the best way to respond must be a threat .
    It was sort of a short running gag, since when you tried on ENFP, I had said "anthropy" was the closest word you would have to change your name to. I was sure it was a joke. Just couldn't get over the way it looked with the avatar.
    Me changing my type is basically not new. When I took the mbti test for the first time about a year ago I got ENTJ. But after reading its profile on typelogic.com I figured that the type sucks and tried it with entp. I saw a lot familiarities between my real self and what was described in the entp type. I continued to read on various sites about it, eventually stranding here. In the beginning it was like an identification system. You identified things you do or already did and finally found names for them a way to universally share them with others, which has never happened before. That was marvellous but it let to a great deal of misconceptions. For example, I really never met an entp, who likes to actually build gadgets. But I do, I got an automated door alarm, a electric circuit for a traffic light and the greatest thing I ever built was the automated turf cutting automaton, which is still a prototype. I though never found someone, who does that aswell, therefore I came into the first difficulties in understanding the system.

    The next thing I learnt about was the function system. And with that things went down the road. Firstly the thing about Ti and Te. According to the entp profile, I am supposed to be retrofitted with Ti. What made sense concerning my ability to write computer programs or build devices. What I never really saw tho was that I actually never did something without a purpose. All the things I programmed so far took place in a small business I founded with a colleague back in the days and we made a lot of money with. The turf cutting automaton I build to sell it for horrendous amounts of money to the rich neighbours here. The alarm doorstep I build after my family got robbed in our old home. The traffic lights I build for our bycycle racetrack, cause we figured that was it that was missing if you want to have a real short-run racing track. So it all fullfilled a purpose.

    But things got worse, a few times someone posted mathematical or logical riddles on the forum. And I remembered a crucial thing from my past. There was that guy who always impressed others with his riddles, even my girlfriend I had back in the days. I from the start refused to participate, cause I found it to be total bullshit. To solve a riddle about 3 guys smoke, 2 live in a yellow house and the third is gay, who owns a dog ? I found it to be intellectual sparing or showing off ones skills and I dread showoffs the most (prolly because I am one myself). Well this and then, in the forum the intp's attacked the riddles and occasionally the entp's loved em aswell. I was never one of them.

    The third thing I discovered through my university studies. Though I always say I hate diagramms, I catch myself more and more using a wide variety of logic diagramms in my new job. They make work so much easier and I love it to bring structure to chaos. I love it when the cogs turn after careful planning create a perfect working system, steaming and humming floating smoothly thru the ocean cutting the water in two equal halfs. Its just its nice.

    The Ti / Te issue but I forgot when a graver issue struck me. I got a conversation with my gf half a year ago and with heart from this forum too and that time I changed to enfp. There was a thing going on in ennegram which started the whole thing and there was the huge problem that it seemed all Fe user have a huge lack of morality or can be nothing else but naive. I was picked on in a thread, someone challenged my integrity and portraied me as being disloyal, just judging from my entp type and that stroke my heart, puncturing it on the first hit.

    My girlfriend as Enneagram 6 told me too in those days that I have a HUGE AMOUNT of feeling in me, which is quite introverted. And cause she is the only one I really trust, I figured enfp solves two problems at once. Turns the Ti to Te and the Fe to Fi.

    But, after a while I got to know an enfp guy more in the forums and he really was a cool and classic one. Someone I would call professional ladykiller. And I thought of myself: A) I am far too whiny to be like that B) I totally suck in understanding other peoples feelings and C) I am not cool . Therefore I fucked the enfp attempt up again and returned to the NT classic, which felt to be more right.

    After that then I discovered the next evolutional step for me after classical physics, namely Socionics. The types there were described much more holistically and I fell in love with it. I went thru it for like 5 months trieing to figure it out.

    Until I hit a dead end. Their way on describing my relationship with my infj was wrong. So I tried to figure if I may have mistyped her, but no that was not the case. Then I tried to forget about the whole shit, cause its all fucked up in any way but didnt work aswell. And then eventually I recalled what happened in the past, like I did here now and hit my forehead saying I am an idiot.

    That was when I typed myself ESTJ Cause I still figured ENTJ wont work. Well and then the rest developed until now developed with the help of friends from this site and people who now me for some time now.

    And I feel good, cause now my relationship to my INFJ fits perfectly. "The moth and the flame" they call it .
    Wow, it looks like this is right. I wasn't sure if it was serious or not, this time or the last with ENFP. (I'm sure Costrin was joking when he tried on INFP!)
    What are you going to do with the name, now? Just leave it that way, I assume?

    You've mentioned Ti/Te and Fe/Fi. Does Ni seem more accurate than Ne? (the first thing I think of when it comes to any NJ type).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  3. #1843
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    It was sort of a short running gag, since when you tried on ENFP, I had said "anthropy" was the closest word you would have to change your name to. I was sure it was a joke. Just couldn't get over the way it looked with the avatar.
    Ah lol, sorry I forgot about that

    Wow, it looks like this is right. I wasn't sure if it was serious or not, this time or the last with ENFP. (I'm sure Costrin was joking when he tried on INFP!)

    You've mentioned Ti/Te and Fe/Fi. Does Ni seem more accurate then Ne? (the first thing I think of when it comes to any NJ type).
    Well when it comes to N I am basically lost everytime. When it comes to Ni, I am doubly so. The greatest difference I got to know so far is that I try to think about useful things, I cant go on letting my mind play all the day, rambling on some shit drawing one connection after another. I can for a time, but i get bored very soon.

    I am pretty sure that I am part of the N family, cause together with my gf we are usually the mavericks in a situation, understanding something completly different than the others did. Or seeing patterns between things making us both say that guy is a cheater, to find out afterwards he is. Common sense calls that a good knowledge of human nature and I am not sure if that suffices to fit with the N profile.

    What I do know tho is that I am working for my hometowns department of economical development for six months now. And tho I only work there as a consultant mechanical engineer, I have come up with two great ideas, which were given to me as a fulltime project,, I work on, though I am only on a student partime job. My ESTJ boss loves me for that and I honor his trust in me, cause I got absolutely not a single clue about the business world, being an engineer, I somehow nevertheless managed to see possibilities or the flawes in the system.

    Does that qualify for N-ness ? I basically only took N because I felt different from most people in all my life, but then again, who doesnt ?

  4. #1844
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Another thing on the N topic. This is from socionics and its the thing I could identify the most with so far:

    Intuitive subtype: (The Strategist)

    (Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The intuitive subtype is affable, kind and pleasant in dialogue. They possess a developed sense of humor that frequently makes them the soul of the company. Very mobile, restless and scattered; always hurrying to make use of time. Inspired, vigorous and optimistic. Enterprising: safely takes risks and applies new ideas. They have difficulty focusing their attention on one thing for a long time. Diplomatic and gallant with everything, especially the opposite sex, but can show familiarity towards closer acquaintances. Due to their propensity towards impudence they often change steps within their plans and when they make ethical mistakes are quick to correct them by means of jokes and various services. Behaves simply and naturally. In conversation they like concern the interlocutor, to embrace/kiss and joke. Gestures and gait, when deprived of their underlined solidity, appear quite natural.

    (Victor Gulenko) Calm and balanced, conducts a regulated life, knows when to take advantage of opportunities. Quietly selects what idea it is better to follow, will always find the most optimal and advantageous output, which will give the greatest return. They are frequently a natural scientist, an experimenter, acting with their mind and hands simultaneously. Can interest themselves in chemistry, and in painting, in this case they try to bring everything to the end. Excellent hygrotechnician and experimenter. Gets along well with children, easily carries them along through their interesting actions. Outwardly more restrained and stocky than the other subtype; tries to dress well and pay attention to their health.

    (Sexual behaviour) Possess feelings of humor; are independent and romantic;; react unexpectedly. Inclined to frequently change their sexual impressions or partners. Impatient, with a tendency to hurry events; they are prone to hurry sexual relations, assigning an accelerated rate. Are affectionate, tender and courteous. Express emotions in witty form. Initiative-taking, daring and value reciprocity; but touchy and impulsive. If not confident in reciprocal feelings they may search for rapprochements with other partners. Need a volitional person capable of holding them. Will find support in an economic, sexual and reliable partner.

  5. #1845
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Well when it comes to N I am basically lost everytime. When it comes to Ni, I am doubly so. The greatest difference I got to know so far is that I try to think about useful things, I cant go on letting my mind play all the day, rambling on some shit drawing one connection after another. I can for a time, but i get bored very soon.

    I am pretty sure that I am part of the N family, cause together with my gf we are usually the mavericks in a situation, understanding something completly different than the others did. Or seeing patterns between things making us both say that guy is a cheater, to find out afterwards he is. Common sense calls that a good knowledge of human nature and I am not sure if that suffices to fit with the N profile.

    What I do know tho is that I am working for my hometowns department of economical development for six months now. And tho I only work there as a consultant mechanical engineer, I have come up with two great ideas, which were given to me as a fulltime project,, I work on, though I am only on a student partime job. My ESTJ boss loves me for that and I honor his trust in me, cause I got absolutely not a single clue about the business world, being an engineer, I somehow nevertheless managed to see possibilities or the flawes in the system.

    Does that qualify for N-ness ? I basically only took N because I felt different from most people in all my life, but then again, who doesnt ?
    Some of that sounds like it could be Ni, though that first paragraph makes you sound almost like an S. Then you say you can "for a time", but then get bored. Not sure how that squares with N, especially Ni. It's possible that the boredom reflects the N preference, because you want to move onto focusing on a particular connection, or something else. But I'm not sure.
    I specify Ni and Ne, and not just N by itself, because Ni/Ne is part of the key difference between ENTJ and ENTP.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  6. #1846
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    To me it's the difference is in Ti / Fe and Te / Fi. There was that "which love type are you" test on okcupid once, which called a type "The Manchild". And I often came to the point in entp discussions on the forum, when I thought it gets ridicoulus and had to decide whether I play along to keep a fascade or go vertigo on my own quest. 100% of the times I went vertigo then, tho I wasnt taken very serious afterwards.

    The main difference lies in the Fi for me, cause I noticed real entps can go rambling on and on, on a topic never really coming to a point of seriousness. I tended to withdraw from that kind of conversations, cause I felt myself to be ignored. What plays into that is what I said in the first paragraph. It meant: the N ramblings are fun and can go on in my opinion for like forever. But they need to lead to something. There must be at least milestones on the rambling quest you write down and mark as findings, I cant go on rambling for the sake of rambling.

    I am not sure if that suffices to be an entj. I am pretty sure its an istp in the end. But I feel good with the type choice I made at the moment. And thats is and has ever been the only goal to this quest for me.

  7. #1847
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    To me it's the difference is in Ti / Fe and Te / Fi. There was that "which love type are you" test on okcupid once, which called a type "The Manchild". And I often came to the point in entp discussions on the forum, when I thought it gets ridicoulus and had to decide whether I play along to keep a fascade or go vertigo on my own quest. 100% of the times I went vertigo then, tho I wasnt taken very serious afterwards.

    The main difference lies in the Fi for me, cause I noticed real entps can go rambling on and on, on a topic never really coming to a point of seriousness. I tended to withdraw from that kind of conversations, cause I felt myself to be ignored. What plays into that is what I said in the first paragraph. It meant: the N ramblings are fun and can go on in my opinion for like forever. But they need to lead to something. There must be at least milestones on the rambling quest you write down and mark as findings, I cant go on rambling for the sake of rambling.

    I am not sure if that suffices to be an entj. I am pretty sure its an istp in the end. But I feel good with the type choice I made at the moment. And thats is and has ever been the only goal to this quest for me.

    dude, i read many of your posts, but not very slowly, so forgive me if i missed it, but have you taken a functions test? buying a functions book and testing myself and my hubby was VERY enlightening. he ended up being istp which makes sense in hindsight, but i originally thought he was intj/ixtj. really he's istX: able to go either way p/j as he's matured.

    i personally believe your personality type is probably whatever your first two functions are (even if they're swapped between dom/aux).
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  8. #1848
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Ha lol, what you think I did here for 4500 posts ? Only posting in the sex forums ?

    I dont give much on cognitive functions tests, cause I think they dont evaluate a human being holistically. They are just another attempt on mathematisation of the mbti culture, which I think is the wrong way:

    (Taken around 8 months ago)
    Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
    extraverted Sensing (Se) ********************************* (33.6)
    good use
    introverted Sensing (Si) *************** (15)
    unused
    extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ********************************* (33.8)
    good use
    introverted Intuiting (Ni) ******************************** (32.1)
    good use
    extraverted Thinking (Te) ***************************** (29.1)
    average use
    introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************************** (38.3)
    excellent use
    extraverted Feeling (Fe) **************************** (28)
    average use
    introverted Feeling (Fi) ****************************** (30.1)
    good use

    Summary Analysis of Profile
    By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: ENTP

    If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: INTP, or ESTP

  9. #1849
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Ha lol, what you think I did here for 4500 posts ? Only posting in the sex forums ?

    I dont give much on cognitive functions tests, cause I think they dont evaluate a human being holistically. They are just another attempt on mathematisation of the mbti culture, which I think is the wrong way:

    (Taken around 8 months ago)
    Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
    extraverted Sensing (Se) ********************************* (33.6)
    good use
    introverted Sensing (Si) *************** (15)
    unused
    extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ********************************* (33.8)
    good use
    introverted Intuiting (Ni) ******************************** (32.1)
    good use
    extraverted Thinking (Te) ***************************** (29.1)
    average use
    introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************************** (38.3)
    excellent use
    extraverted Feeling (Fe) **************************** (28)
    average use
    introverted Feeling (Fi) ****************************** (30.1)
    good use

    Summary Analysis of Profile
    By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: ENTP

    If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: INTP, or ESTP
    interesting your Ti is way out front. that would imply you're an introvert. why don't you think you're an introvert?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  10. #1850
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Because, look at this:

    I did the test again after 8 months now. Its all about the state of mind you are in currently. There is no thing like a clear logical concept to define personality, there is only an overall image you can produce.

    And I personally think that I am the master of producing an image of myself and therefore fooling myself of whom I really are. The only one in the end, who can answer the question of whom I are is me myself. And not mathematics:

    Your Cognitive Development Profile
    The forty-eight questions you rated earlier tap into the eight cognitive processes. Some questions tapped into basic or developed use of a process used by itself, while other questions tapped into use of multiple processes at once. The profile below is based on your responses. The number of squares indicate strength of response. The equivalent numeric is shown in parentheses along with likely level of development.


    Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
    extraverted Sensing (Se) ************************ (24.7)
    average use
    introverted Sensing (Si) ******************** (20.5)
    limited use
    extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************** (14.7)
    unused
    introverted Intuiting (Ni) ********************************* (33.4)
    good use
    extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************************************** (44)
    excellent use
    introverted Thinking (Ti) ****************************** (30.9)
    good use
    extraverted Feeling (Fe) *************************************** (39.9)
    excellent use
    introverted Feeling (Fi) ******************************** (32.5)
    good use


    Summary Analysis of Profile
    By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: ENTJ

    Lead (Dominant) Process
    Extraverted Thinking (Te): Measuring and constructing for progress. Making decisions objectively based on evidence and measures. Checking if things function properly. Applying a procedure to control events and complete goals.

    Support (Auxilliary) Process
    Introverted Intuiting (Ni): Transforming with a meta-perspective. Withdrawing from the world and focusing your mind to receive an insight or realization. Checking if synergy results. Trying out a realization to transform things.


    If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: INTJ, or ENFJ

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