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  1. #1161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Hugs please?


    Don't let it eat you up inside.
    Unless you're into that kind of thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Wait, so why is it exactly that so many people here think that Magic Poriferan is an NF of some sort? I feel like I'm missing something.
    S/He's one of the precious few people who still takes MBTI seriously. Trolling gold.

  2. #1162
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    S/He's one of the precious few people who still takes MBTI seriously. Trolling gold.
    Don't make assumptions about Magic's thoughts and motivations.

  3. #1163
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    S/He's one of the precious few people who still takes MBTI seriously. Trolling gold.
    which brings up one of life's great questions, I guess: Are you a troll?

    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #1164
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I've put that idea forward before. I just kind of think that's silly. Besides, I'm not uncertain about my type, which is what that implies. Instead I'd a simple for specifically indicating that I know that I am balanced on that continuum. I never did conclude that I was too Feeling to be a T, though.
    But what about to be a T dominant?

    The no you say to INFJ because of Fe is a crock.

    Your complaints against me, alone are enough to prove high Fe.
    More than one INFJ mistakes their intuiting for Thinking.
    Dissatisfaction over irresponsibility is almost never the stance of a TP. In fact they're the ones typically responsible for it.

    No disliking irresponsibility -- disliking hiding things, fearful aversion to veil trickery and deceit, regardless of intention is more an FJ habit. Having weak extraverted perception they have much difficulty keeping themselves aware of much situational nuance. Introverted perception keeps them aware (if only onconaciously) of this weak spot. Experience teaches them that this can make them vulnerable, and exploitation of this is marked, by action oriented Feeling as a hateful attack.

    Those TPs who say they're upset by conspiracy or non-constructive behavior are probably either tricking themselves, or have come under recent hardship (tangible setbacks as opposed to annoyance) as a result of either.
    we fukin won boys

  5. #1165
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Don't make assumptions about Magic's thoughts and motivations.
    That's the assumption you focused on?

    You F!

  6. #1166
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    That's the assumption you focused on?

    You F!
    ??
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #1167
    Senior Member Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Your complaints against me, alone are enough to prove high Fe.
    Hmmm... Some of them are that you are rude or disruptive. guess those are supposed to be Fe? I'm not sure why they can't be Fi. I also make about just as many complaints that you don't make sense and fail to apply logic properly. I think your immense ego (probably as well as other things) interferes with your ability to be objective or rational.

    So take your pick. Neither my T nor my F can make much out of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    More than one INFJ mistakes their intuiting for Thinking.
    Dissatisfaction over irresponsibility is almost never the stance of a TP. In fact they're the ones typically responsible for it.
    Is that so? Why does that have to be the case?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    No disliking irresponsibility -- disliking hiding things, fearful aversion to veil trickery and deceit, regardless of intention is more an FJ habit. Having weak extraverted perception they have much difficulty keeping themselves aware of much situational nuance.
    I'm hardly unaware of nuances. I also find your point about drawing conclusions regardless of intention to be very odd. It seems characteristically F to care about intentions. I'm more interested in consequences than cause or intent, but that strikes me as being more of a T thing.

    The funny thing is that either way, these concerns, as concerns, must require an element of Feeling anyway, no matter which you pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Introverted perception keeps them aware (if only onconaciously) of this weak spot. Experience teaches them that this can make them vulnerable, and exploitation of this is marked, by action oriented Feeling as a hateful attack.
    Hateful attacks... You're an FJ, huh? Oh, I know, you are going to say that you don't care enough to really be expressing hatred when you attack people. But I can't know that you're telling the truth, though. Likewise, you can't know what the motivation is behind my criticism. If I were just going on appearances though, you seem like you're bubbling with emotional rage all the time, regardless of what you say. The point is that neither of us can know what emotional makeup is behind the other, so we are not in position to draw conclusions on such premises.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Those TPs who say they're upset by conspiracy or non-constructive behavior are probably either tricking themselves, or have come under recent hardship (tangible setbacks as opposed to annoyance) as a result of either.
    One of the overall problems with your thinking is it relies far too much on the concept that people do not know themselves. So much self-trickery, and sub-conscience. The end result is that you strip people of the position to assess themselves. But the who can assess them? Somehow we're all supposed to believe that you can, but I have no idea what would make you a better authority on what's going on in peoples' heads than those people themselves. People do trick themselves, but when they do that, you aren't really any better at figuring it out than they are.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #1168
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    That's the assumption you focused on?

    You F!
    Thank you. That's the most complimentary statement you could make in regards to me. Please tell my gf the good news.

  9. #1169
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Hmmm... Some of them are that you are rude or disruptive. guess those are supposed to be Fe? I'm not sure why they can't be Fi.
    They can. But they never are.
    I also make about just as many complaints that you don't make sense and fail to apply logic properly.
    No TP would. Not a real one. Any Ti would notice, or at least suspect that it was either deliberate (as often it is, which I among numerous others have attempted to make you aware) or was not a real fallacy. Of course, and F would make that mistake.

    Expressing myself unconventionally doesn't quite count as failed logic.
    Pay more attention. Especially to semantics and and etymology.

    I think your immense ego (probably as well as other things) interferes with your ability to be objective or rational.
    Exactly where do you suspect my ego came from?
    I'm not really good at anything except being objective and rational.

    Your complaints would be more accurately directed at my non-compliance with your requests to comprehensively elaborate.

    My ego only gets in the way of that.
    I urge you to reexamine my character. You've truly got me figured all wrong.

    Is that so? Why does that have to be the case?
    It doesn't. And I didn't say it does.
    Who's the one being illogical?

    This is what I'm talking about. You're not paying enough attention to what I say. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I choose my words very carefully. I employ modifiers for a reason. Please observe them and appeal to their importance.

    'Til then, it doesn't matter how logical you are, or think you are. If you're not dealing with the whole situation, T is useless.


    I'm hardly unaware of nuances.
    As I outlined above, that's clearly not true. Your continued ignorance of my careful precision in word choice is inalienable proof.
    I also find your point about drawing conclusions regardless of intention to be very odd. It seems characteristically F to care about intentions.
    Not that it matters pertaining to the argument at hand, but you're not entirely wrong -- Feeling is interested in a person's intentions. But Feeling is not solely interested in one's intentions. The resulting actions, and their means (in this case, a person's intention) have to be pure else they be condemned, even if only covertly.

    I'm more interested in consequences than cause or intent
    The result of extraverted judgement, not necessarily T or F
    but that strikes me as being more of a T thing.
    Wrong.

    The funny thing is that either way, these concerns, as concerns, must require an element of Feeling anyway, no matter which you pick.
    No they don't and how's that funny?



    Hateful attacks... You're an FJ, huh?
    Hey -- pay attention. The FJ perceives deceit or non-cooperation, or even overt hostility as a hateful attack.
    My point was that they're not, or at least, don't have to be. The Fj is misled, just as you obviously are.

    Oh, I know, you are going to say that you don't care enough to really be expressing hatred when you attack people. But I can't know that you're telling the truth, though. Likewise, you can't know what the motivation is behind my criticism. If I were just going on appearances though, you seem like you're bubbling with emotional rage all the time, regardless of what you say. The point is that neither of us can know what emotional makeup is behind the other, so we are not in position to draw conclusions on such premises.
    This all can be ignored as it's expounding rebuttal to a misperceived point.



    One of the overall problems with your thinking is it relies far too much on the concept that people do not know themselves.
    Know what son? People fucking suck at it. Not just me.

    So much self-trickery, and sub-conscience. The end result is that you strip people of the position to assess themselves. But the who can assess them?
    Someone else. Jason can't observe himself objectively because Jason is too busy thinking about how he wants to be. The two merge, and make for distorted understanding of reality. I choose to abstain from too much elaboration on my own intentions/desires/problems etc. because I don't know them. I know I don't know them, because I catch myself defying what I assumed to be my rules as often as I do following them.

    I can only suspect that everyone else is the same way, since I catch them telling me fewer quasi-values than I watch them break.


    Somehow we're all supposed to believe that you can, but I have no idea what would make you a better authority on what's going on in peoples' heads than those people themselves.
    Your problem is that you have no faith at all in unconscious work.
    I've got a suicidal relative who'd serve as a supreme extreme example of the inability a human has to consciously grapple his unconscious.


    People do trick themselves, but when they do that, you aren't really any better at figuring it out than they are.
    False, but not necessarily because I'm better mentally equipped. Only because I'm less focused on being comfortable, and more focused on being right.

    Lying to one's self allows the individual to do what they want, even if it goes against their 'moral code' and still feel good about themselves.
    we fukin won boys

  10. #1170
    Senior Member Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    They can. But they never are. No TP would. Not a real one. Any Ti would notice, or at least suspect that it was either deliberate (as often it is, which I among numerous others have attempted to make you aware) or was not a real fallacy. Of course, and F would make that mistake.
    I have considered it as possibly deliberate, though not absolutely. Anyhow, your point is odd, since you seem to be saying that only F wouldn't be able to suspect that you were being deliberate, and I don't know why that would be the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Expressing myself unconventionally doesn't quite count as failed logic.
    Pay more attention. Especially to semantics and and etymology.
    You're wrong about that. No matter what your intentions are, if you say something that is not logically cogent, then it is not logically cogent. It may very well have been your intent to say something that does not follow the conventions of logic, but your intent does not change the cogency of the statement itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Exactly where do you suspect my ego came from?
    I'm not really good at anything except being objective and rational.

    Your complaints would be more accurately directed at my non-compliance with your requests to comprehensively elaborate.

    My ego only gets in the way of that.
    I urge you to reexamine my character. You've truly got me figured all wrong.
    That would simply make you what is conventionally called a troll or a flamer, which is hardly something I haven't considered. My overall point about you is that it is damned one way or the other. you're an illogical, irrational mess, or you are someone that indulgences in being negative and problematic. As I said, neither my T nor my F can make anything good out of you. One makes you fail on logical grounds, the other makes you fail on ethical grounds. You are bound to fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    It doesn't. And I didn't say it does.
    Who's the one being illogical?

    This is what I'm talking about. You're not paying enough attention to what I say. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I choose my words very carefully. I employ modifiers for a reason. Please observe them and appeal to their importance.

    'Til then, it doesn't matter how logical you are, or think you are. If you're not dealing with the whole situation, T is useless.
    "more than one", "almost never", "typically". Yes, precisely speaking, you did not say it has to be the case. You did not use absolutes, you used quantifiers. I didn't precisely reflect that fact in my question, and you caught me on it. Aren't you cute? But if you weren't evasive and nitpicky, you probably would have ignored that and gotten to the point that you must have clearly known I was looking for. Or are you failing to perceive my motives? It comes back to the "irrational or a troll" dichotomy once again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    As I outlined above, that's clearly not true. Your continued ignorance of my careful precision in word choice is inalienable proof.
    As I've said, you've gotten that wrong.

    [QUOTE=Nocapszy;360074]
    Not that it matters pertaining to the argument at hand, but you're not entirely wrong -- Feeling is interested in a person's intentions. But Feeling is not solely interested in one's intentions. The resulting actions, and their means (in this case, a person's intention) have to be pure else they be condemned, even if only covertly.

    The result of extraverted judgement, not necessarily T or F Wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    No they don't and how's that funny?
    Concerns do require the use of Feeling. You have to have at least some very primal basis of good/bad values to be concerned about anything. Those values could involved pain and pleasure, or propagating ones seed, but the point is that concerns have to come back to a motive. Motives require Feeling. A creature truly, 100% of Feeling would have no motive.

    It's funny because I like little factors that throw everything else aside or upside down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Hey -- pay attention. The FJ perceives deceit or non-cooperation, or even overt hostility as a hateful attack.
    My point was that they're not, or at least, don't have to be. The Fj is misled, just as you obviously are.
    I still don't see where I come in here. I'm assuming this is supposed to be describing my tendencies after all. I don't care if you are hateful or not. I haven't been trying to calculate your worth based on what I suspect your feelings are. Maybe they're hateful, maybe they're not. Even if you are just impersonally amusing yourself, the effect of what you do is never really any good (maybe once or twice I recall you making a worthwhile post). Hatred or no hatred, I clearly see problems in your actions, regardless of your feelings.
    Again, this consequence over intent, and again, is a problem with you either being irrational or troll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    This all can be ignored as it's expounding rebuttal to a misperceived point.
    Well, actually, if you were more astute or concerned (which ever it is with you), you would notice there is content there relevant to the follwing points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Someone else. Jason can't observe himself objectively because Jason is too busy thinking about how he wants to be. The two merge, and make for distorted understanding of reality. I choose to abstain from too much elaboration on my own intentions/desires/problems etc. because I don't know them. I know I don't know them, because I catch myself defying what I assumed to be my rules as often as I do following them.

    I can only suspect that everyone else is the same way, since I catch them telling me fewer quasi-values than I watch them break.
    Peoples' reasoning is originated within their minds. No one outside can see it any better than the person that's originating those thoughts. If the originator can't see it, that's bad news, because it means nobody is seeing it. I believe in denial more than I believe in complex sub-conscious actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Your problem is that you have no faith at all in unconscious work.
    I've got a suicidal relative who'd serve as a supreme extreme example of the inability a human has to consciously grapple his unconscious.
    Perhaps. I'm not an expert on this (and neither are you, presumably), but again I'd say that I believe more in denial, which is different from sub-consciousness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    False, but not necessarily because I'm better mentally equipped. Only because I'm less focused on being comfortable, and more focused on being right.

    Lying to one's self allows the individual to do what they want, even if it goes against their 'moral code' and still feel good about themselves.
    It's plausible that you are lying to youself just as much when you make these assessments. To make a minor change, you are more focused on wanting to be right. So, you will lie to yourself for your motives, just as much as they will lie to themselves for their motives. You will see all of the obvious evidence that you know what's going on in the other person's head. You'll see it because you believe it. You want to believe you know how peoples' minds work. Your assessment of others can be just as easily clouded by your own desire.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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