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  1. #1
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    Default 936, 693, INFJ or ISFJ? (please help)

    Can you please help me with typing myself correctly so that I can come to closure on this, get on with my life and start paying more attention to other people? :-)

    Current belief:
    INFJ with 9w1 - 3 - 6

    Possibily:
    INFJ with 6 - 9w1 - 3

    Unlikely, but I don't want to exclude the possibility just yet:
    ISFJ with 9w1 - 3 - 6
    ISFJ with 6 - 9w1 - 3

    This is very much me:



    And this is what I do sometimes for "fun" and to "ground" myself (Ni-Ti loop for E6?).
    Subjects vary: Philosophy, physics, math and recently MBTI etc:

    Is it possible for an ISFJ to enter an Ni-Ti loop?

    Or am I something completely different?
    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "I very much appreciate the company of ESTPs and ENFPs - I often feel that they complete me, cover my back and help me in the outside world and vice versa! ESFPs I don't know - I'll think about that."

    What else but INFJ?

    The INFJ is the most mystical of the MBTI types, not only because of Ni, but because Thinking is not well developed and is in a more playful and awkward stage of development. The objective Feeling of Fe will be left ungrounded due to the type's preference for subjectivity. Thus the tertiary Ti comes into play as an objective method of grounding intuitive hunches. But this method remains internal, ungrounded (except in intuition), and impractical until Fe can be developed to the point that it trusts the subjective hunches brought to consciousness by Ni.

    The second spoiler exemplifies how you can "tertiary Ti" all over the place.

    "Animus Se:
    This is very much my Achilles heel - when under stress I completely ignore my bodily needs in terms of sleep etc. I smoke, drink, eat whatever my instinct urges me to. Dancing and music (EBM and crossover such as Slayer, Nine Inch Nails, Front 242 etc - but due to obvious age-related pathetical reasons not any longer :-)) can put me in some sort of trance-like state. The same goes for down-hill skiing (not yet embarrasing :-)) and, yes I admit, sex."

    It might be considered Se gone out of whack, but on the other hand, it definitely sounds like depression. This response is often (for the INFJs in general) prompted by the Fe auxiliary: not having established any social recognition, or by other kinds of social problems such as feeling neglected, abused, etc., by others. Thus the INFJs start to neglect and even abuse themselves with bad habits and unhealthy thoughts. Fe uses Se to attack the ego as an escape from unwanted feelings. Ti tertiary may also come to the forefront of consciousness but this time in a negative sense: as a way to level an intellectual assault against society in general. Playful Ti takes on a more dangerous aspect, but it rarely takes expression in any practical sense.

    Because of Ni, and the lack of practical objectivity in the consciousness of the INFJ (compared to the INTJ who is far more practical because of Te), INFJs present themselves as almost floating above reality like a spirit without a body. In order to ground themselves and get their feet back on the ground, the INFJ needs to engage in healthy Se activities. Yoga can be effective against INFJ depression and anxiety in bringing mind and body back together again. But I would recommend it be practiced in groups, and not alone, as the latter tends to force Fe to remain in a relatively immature state.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    As for E-type, your choices there won't include 6, or at least very rarely. I would look at 4, 5, 9, and 1, and rarely 2. I would start with 4 and 5, and only consider 9 and 1 by ruling out those other two.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    As for E-type, your choices there won't include 6, or at least very rarely. I would look at 4, 5, 9, and 1, and rarely 2. I would start with 4 and 5, and only consider 9 and 1 by ruling out those other two.
    Thank you so much Mal12345 for your time and help in the two posts above.

    After having read through numerous enneagram type descriptions I'm now convinced that I'm a 9w1 (at level 3 or 4 right now).
    Integration to 3w4 and disintegration to 6w5. Wings due to career path, mixed cultural background consequences, and in practice an absent father until recently.
    The so/sx/sp order changes every now and then, but I can relate very well to most descriptions of them for the 9w1.

    The same goes for INFJ - I've written off ISFJ completely, thanks for reassuring me what I was convinced of.

    I think I've been close to depressed twice in my life. The first time, about ten years ago, I medicated lightly which made me end up in a relationship that two years ago led to divorce and the second "depression". This time I rode out the storm instead of avoiding it by medication, and it was certainly worth it.

    Socionics: Well I don't care. I like that they try to make some sort of analogy with physics and potential/kinetic energy and time/space, and it is beautiful in that sense. I'll amend MBTI with that and Beebe's roles of hero, good parent etc and then the rest becomes pretty superfluous in my eyes. Interaction between people is explained well too in terms of Beebe's different roles (one's good parent Fe talking to another's puer Fe and so on).

    I'm ready to drop this now. I'm satisfied. Thank you once again.
    Now I'll go and work on my Se - in a group setting - instead (after 20 years of Ti practice).

  5. #5
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geonat View Post
    Can you please help me with typing myself correctly so that I can come to closure on this, get on with my life and start paying more attention to other people? :-)

    Current belief:
    INFJ with 9w1 - 3 - 6

    Possibily:
    INFJ with 6 - 9w1 - 3

    Unlikely, but I don't want to exclude the possibility just yet:
    ISFJ with 9w1 - 3 - 6
    ISFJ with 6 - 9w1 - 3

    Thanks in advance!
    Brief Overview: NINEs want to be peaceful, relaxed, comfortable, and natural. Most importantly, they want to be agreeable and, if at all possible, to avoid conflict. Under stress, they may be passive-aggressive, neglectful, or indifferent. At their best, they are centered, accepting, and able to mediate differences.

    Balanced at the top of the Enneagram, NINEs are the most basic and most numerous personality type. They are the “salt of the earth” and the “glue” that holds the community together. People of this type come in all shapes and sizes, but they share a common problem with inertia (or momentum).Whether they are lazy in the traditional sense or hard workers continually on the move, they have a problem finding and staying with their own priorities. It’s hard to change directions or shift attention to what is most important. They “forget” themselves. They excel at seeing all points of view. This can make it difficult for them to make personal decisions, but at the same time, they can be excellent mediators and peacemakers for others. They seek harmony in their environment and will go to great lengths to avoid conflict (although at times championing others). They are action-based types, with a strong gut sense of knowing, although they can also be out of touch with their bodies.
    More available at:

    http://enneagramleadership.com/types/nine/

    Psychological Defenses: NINEs use the defense mechanism of narcotization to avoid conflict (from within or without) and to maintain a self-image of being “comfortable/harmonious” (narcotization is using food and drink, reading, TV, or simply repetitive patterns of thinking and doing to put oneself in a state of reduced awareness and feeling)
    The food and drink thing I see in my father... He gets cranky when can't get his fix of delicious food during the meals...

    Also see:

    http://personalitycafe.com/type-9-fo...ritypes-2.html

  6. #6
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    Thanks Yeghor. Those were interesting links but they just open up the can of worms again regarding detailed specification of integration and disintegration points. Opposing personality Ne becomes upset :-)
    Wouldn't be too concerned about pinpointing them exactly. People aren't that predictable and we continuously change with our unique experience, history and environment. MBTI stack and level of main E-type is probably more than enough information for most people. And what would one do with all this knowledge anyway, once gathered? Probably not much :-)

    And those desserts that you mention seem pretty harmless, I would always keep a supply of them at arms length :-)

  7. #7
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    Meh, maybe INFP (Ni-Ti 6th & 8th). Back to the drawing board

    Edit: I guess this also makes sense somewhat (moved around the descriptions so that they line up with the INFP stack instead of the original INFJ stack in the first post):

    Senex / bad parent Hero Fi:
    I quit work twice because of extreme dislike of a narrow-minded profit-driven agenda high up in the hierarchy (I hope they didn't read my work assessment form for my own sake :-)). I can be very rigid and blaming on my children when they behave selfishly, bringing up topics such as "consider the children in Africa" when they don't want to finish their meals etc. Only to feel bad and guilty afterwards. For good reasons.
    Opposing personality / opposite gender Good parent Ne:
    I can get really annoyed (probably visibly) when people are brain-storming endlessly around me when I just want to come to closure on a subject. In new social settings i probably come off as pretty stereotypelike-feminine, gossiping and chatting about mundane matters that usually holds no particular interest to me otherwise.
    Demon / daimon Eternal child Si:
    When under (extreme) stress I become obsessed with organizing, sorting and throwing items from the past. Interior decoration, optimising furniture placement. Isolation. Just to transform the environment to something familiar and predictable. Minimising external input from Se and Fe just to be able to sort things out in my head and get a new fresh start and put things behind me.
    Trickster / bad child Inferior Te:
    I can become furious (in written correspondence) when banks etc try to bind me with fine print text where they as usual put all responsibility and all risk on the customer, so I double-bind them with their own formulations, usually in combination with harsh moral passages a-la Fi above.
    Good parent Opposing personality / opposite gender Fe:
    I am a coward when it comes to giving critique and I put the harmony of the group above everything else, unless there is something really important (from my view) at stake.
    Hero Senex / bad parent Ni:
    I love (become obsessed with) coming to closure and getting to the botton with problem solving even if I constantly feel very insecure of what I'm actually doing. Understanding the logic (Ti) is very strenouos to me but juggling with the symbolics usually brings me up from the basement with some gems in the end :-)
    Animus Bad child / Trickster Se:
    This is very much my Achilles heel - when under stress I completely ignore my bodily needs in terms of sleep etc. I smoke, drink, eat whatever my instinct urges me to. Dancing and music (EBM and crossover such as Slayer, Nine Inch Nails, Front 242 etc - but due to obvious age-related pathetical reasons not any longer :-)) can put me in some sort of trance-like state. The same goes for down-hill skiing (not yet embarrasing :-)) and, yes I admit, sex.
    Eternal child Demon / daimon Ti:
    I love designing those little (overly-)simplifed mathematical toys (using well-established physical laws such as Newton's and energy conservation - no true innovation there) to help my fellow colleagues and clients at work. In that respect I probably spent my entire career (applied research and engineering consultancy) playing innocent games in that sense :-)

    It would also explain why I first selftested as INTP (hero Ti) and then after about six months INFJ (hero Ni) - perhaps what I unconsciously wanted to be because of lowest possible Ti and Ni for INFP (if that is the case). But I still don't know for sure.
    xNFx seems pretty solid at least. That'll do. Really bored of myself now :-)

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