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  1. #51
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Hard

    I won't disagree with the socionics test result, LSI seems to fit you pretty well, much more than EIE. And that enneagram 1-3-x thingie also does seem to. Based on the few posts I've read from you.

    I don't know you IRL so maybe you're very different there, but here I just don't see you as a socionics lead type. Leading in socionics is about a lot more than just control over what emotions to share. It's about a certain skill and especially confidence in all related aspects. Are you confident in affecting other people's emotions, moods etc and energizing them into action through arousing their passion? LSI would make people do something by a very different method than an EIE would.

    As for MBTI I have no idea, MBTI Fe is obviously different from the socionics . In MBTI I don't know either how Fe-doms exactly go about keeping control of the sharing of feelings other than it's adherence to some sort of social rules. But more than that, I can't really say what this is:

    What kind of things? Yes this could be just Fe or it could be a T function dominating F function. You know yourself best so it would be interesting if you tried to analyse this further if you haven't yet. I'm certainly not going to guess without information about what's behind the stuff I quoted from you above.

    On the surface your reasoning is reminiscent of how a friend of mine controls his emotions. He's a strong T type. But, as I said, these are not necessarily the same statements, only on the surface, I don't know what's behind it in your case.

    I'm a bit lost there, you first say it's common for Fe doms to share their emotions but you don't share them? This stuff about being unwarranted or being unfair, why do you think it's unfair?

    If it's a function you described here then definitely Fe-related. E1 through Fe? I dunno :p

    They aren't entirely independent because they have the same subject, people. And obviously not independent if not all combinations are equally likely. But I do strongly agree about your conclusion, yes, the theories shouldn't be mixed up. They are indeed different theories and there is no fully consistent correlation between them exactly because they are different. Another better framework is required to make sense of the relations between the theories. If there's no such framework then yes best to treat them as entirely different.

    Yep, MBTI Fe is more about social rules and socionics Fe is more about emotionality. Though in socionics Fe is still also about going with the group and emotions can and will still be used as a tool by Fe egos but at the same time they are indeed like the MBTI Fi types with less of an emotional filter, less sticking to a certain kind of appropriate behaviour/talking style/etc. It seems to me that both Ti and Fi in socionics are less subjective in the original jungian sense and that instead they are more about universal truths (Ti truths or Fi norms). (Introversion and extraversion in socionics is really just different from Jung or MBTI.) So then that would explain why it's Fi that tries to be appropriate and not Fe. Even though Fe is still regulated by the shared group goal, common shared *and* expressed emotionality of the group etc. It's just not static universal ethical truths/norms but dynamic role playing with emotions or something.

    I'm sure edchidna1000 has a better way to explain all this though. This above is just what I know about socionics so far.
    This pretty much nailed it. In particular the difference between MBTI Fe being more focused on social rules, and socionics Fe being more focused on emotionality. That's the big thing I don't fit in with on socionics ENFj, is that they strike me as very... loose? They aren't so concerned with things being pinned down and certain, and there is this almost laissez faire attitude that I don't match with. They seem to go against acting as what is expected, and I don't relate to it at all. There is also just so much subjectivity and lack of cross checking with what comes up that I even further don't align with it. I am more concerned with absolutes in what is and what isn't. I can effect others emotions and moods, but I hate doing it most of the time. It strikes me as very very unfair. I motivate people by refrencing the external environment, or saying "here is this thing we need to reach/meet, here is how we can do it, are we on the same page?". That much more explicit and solid (hard to misunderstand) and I am more comfortable with that.

    As far as being unfair about sharing ill feelings. I know this isn't logical entirely, but it's very hard for me to get past. I feel like it is unfair to place my emotional burdens on another person when I could solve it on my own. They did not ask for it most of the time, and even if they did I feel like I'd be using them unfairly. I often start and end such situations with "here is the problem, here is the solution, I'll survive". In reality I don't want to say that, but I want them to have closure and understanding, not to have to deal with issues I have because of my inabillity or unwillingness to solve something that can be solved. On trivial, neutral, or positive emotional type stuff, I willingly and freely share that, because it will either have good or no impact on that person, and they do not have to expend energy on me, or feel some sort of pressure.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  2. #52
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I totally know friends like that!! I love the term!! I actually have a high school friend who described herself like that (I wonder if any of her family went to Stanford?) and collects mini rubber ducks.

    I think it's true that 6 kind of brings your paddling to the surface. Far less repression than 1, for all the good and (embarrassing) bad that goes along with that.

    Thank you for the explanation!
    What's interesting, is I do relate to the duck example a ton, but I don't fit it perfectly. Something I don't like about myself is it is really hard for me to 100% keep my emotions under the surface. They leak in my body language rather easily, and people can tell something is off, but I almost always deny it if asked. When I do let this sort of stuff out, I feel SO guilty about it and end up having to retroactively repress it and it just makes it worse.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  3. #53
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    A question for the Enneagram enthusiasts: Is a perfectionist of Hard's caliber not automatically a One?

  4. #54
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrderOfTheCaelifera View Post
    I may be wrong but I'd assume an angry ISTJ will appear like no other type because types don't magically morph into another type when they're angry. I don't know whether individuals with split personalities would actually morph into an entirely different personality type bit I doubt the rest of us do so.
    So I'd expect an angry ISTJ will appear to be an angry ISTJ, as an angry ESTP will appear a pissed off ESTP etc.

    I think an ISTJ that's also Enneagram type-1 wouldn't be very noticeably angry unless he were overcome by a furious rage.

    I sometimes think that I may be an ISTJ but I've little faith in MBTI & instead prefer Enneagram typing.

    Were I a type 1 you likely wouldn't recognize when I'm angry because I turn my anger inward & I usually work through it alone in my home gym.

    You'll likely never seen an enraged ISTJ E1 because (IMHO) they internalize, repress & bury emotions associated with anger or hurt the way that a volcano builds up a magma chamber.

    You haven't experienced rage until you've been the target of a decade of repressed guilt, fear & anger rising to the surface in explosive fashion.

    If you want to witness the discipline of controlled ISTJ anger, I suggest you piss off a USMC Drill Instructor prior to stepping in the ring with him.
    What happens to the repressed, pent-up negative emotions when ISTJ loses control? How do you release your anger?

    From what I understand, 163 should be something like Ni or Si - Te -F, so IxTJ...

    This test is very accurate for mbti typing...we can compare it that way...

    http://www.sociotype.com/tests/

  5. #55
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrderOfTheCaelifera View Post
    I don't yet know enough regarding functions that I'd be comfortable guessing their arrangement or strength.
    I mostly just read the information available here, I get bored occasionally & read through the threads or take a test.
    I took that test (http://www.sociotype.com/tests/) a few times previously, it consistently offered 2 different types & due to the results I didn't consider it particularly accurate but a noob only knows 1/3 of what he thinks he knows eh. I've done even worse on MBTI tests but assumed inconsistent results were indicative that I need to better know myself & stop over thinking the questions.
    I'm presently gaining a foundation regarding Enneagram so that I might be confident while applying the advice I receive from this site & maybe returning the favor of transfer of knowledge to others when I'm able.

    Don't get upset or uptight regarding ISTJs, I merely stated that I sometimes think that I may be an ISTJ but MBTI really isn't my thing yet, so for now I'm not confirmed as any MBTI type.

    As far as pent up emotions escaping an ISTJ, you'd receive a much better description from a confirmed ISTJ with pent up anger.
    Yeah good luck getting an ISTJ to open up & talk about his buried emotions & pent up anger LOL.
    Are you considering sharing the test results today?

  6. #56
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrderOfTheCaelifera View Post
    It appears you're linking that test quite often.
    Why are you so interested in the results, are you conducting research or merely compiling test data to further an unsupported hypothesis?
    Wondering about correlation between types and enneagrams...

  7. #57
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    This test is very accurate for mbti typing...we can compare it that way...

    http://www.sociotype.com/tests/
    No. No it is not. Its is a shotty test at best becarse of the photograph questions. Also, this test is for socionics, NOT mbti. I already said this too. You cant mix theories, and you really need to stop try relating them. Much more so until you get a solid grasp in thrm alone.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  8. #58
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    No. No it is not. Its is a shotty test at best becarse of the photograph questions. Also, this test is for socionics, NOT mbti. I already said this too. You cant mix theories, and you really need to stop try relating them. Much more so until you get a solid grasp in thrm alone.
    I've taken your comments into consideration and decided to disagree with them...

    Your socionics typing, your enneagram results and your mbti typing should yield results that are quite similar to each other... You can't get "NF" core in one test and "ST" core in another... One of them must be wrong...

  9. #59
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I've taken your comments into consideration and decided to disagree with them...

    Your socionics typing, your enneagram results and your mbti typing should yield results that are quite similar to each other... You can't get "NF" core in one test and "ST" core in another... One of them must be wrong...
    Ok, well, that doesn't make you right, and you are going to find almost no one here who agrees with you or takes you seriously until you back this up. There is however evidence that you CAN be different types, by virtue of people who in fact, are different types in different theories. So by this metric, you are, infact, wrong.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    This pretty much nailed it. In particular the difference between MBTI Fe being more focused on social rules, and socionics Fe being more focused on emotionality. That's the big thing I don't fit in with on socionics ENFj, is that they strike me as very... loose? They aren't so concerned with things being pinned down and certain, and there is this almost laissez faire attitude that I don't match with. They seem to go against acting as what is expected, and I don't relate to it at all. There is also just so much subjectivity and lack of cross checking with what comes up that I even further don't align with it. I am more concerned with absolutes in what is and what isn't. I can effect others emotions and moods, but I hate doing it most of the time. It strikes me as very very unfair. I motivate people by refrencing the external environment, or saying "here is this thing we need to reach/meet, here is how we can do it, are we on the same page?". That much more explicit and solid (hard to misunderstand) and I am more comfortable with that.
    You're such a T-lead type, yeah I still think LSI works fine for you with Ne PoLR. You almost sound like Te-lead but I don't see Ne so I'll stick with LSI


    As far as being unfair about sharing ill feelings. I know this isn't logical entirely, but it's very hard for me to get past. I feel like it is unfair to place my emotional burdens on another person when I could solve it on my own. They did not ask for it most of the time, and even if they did I feel like I'd be using them unfairly. I often start and end such situations with "here is the problem, here is the solution, I'll survive". In reality I don't want to say that, but I want them to have closure and understanding, not to have to deal with issues I have because of my inabillity or unwillingness to solve something that can be solved. On trivial, neutral, or positive emotional type stuff, I willingly and freely share that, because it will either have good or no impact on that person, and they do not have to expend energy on me, or feel some sort of pressure.
    I see.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    No. No it is not. Its is a shitty test at best because of the photograph questions. Also, this test is for socionics, NOT mbti. I already said this too. You cant mix theories, and you really need to stop try relating them. Much more so until you get a solid grasp in them alone.
    Actually there is two tests at that page, the original basic and the extended test. The former doesn't contain photos. I'm not sure that in the extended test the photos are even used to determine type, it might just be data collection to see how different types pick photos. I have never seen anything on the site that clarified the purpose of the photos section.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    You can't get "NF" core in one test and "ST" core in another... One of them must be wrong...
    Ok, well, that doesn't make you right, and you are going to find almost no one here who agrees with you or takes you seriously until you back this up. There is however evidence that you CAN be different types, by virtue of people who in fact, are different types in different theories. So by this metric, you are, infact, wrong.
    As I said before, I think the two theories are not compatible but not fully different either. The switch from ENF to IST would be possible going by functions if you had weak dichotomy preferences to begin with. I recall only your J preference is certain, right?

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