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INFJ or just weird?

Noon

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Big questions
1. How does Ni differ from Si?
2. How is Se-inferior as contrasted with Ne-inferior?
3. To what extent can the inferior function assimilate itself (its values) into primary consciousness?

Short example of what's been puzzling me
The word holophrasis has been swimming around in my head for a few days now. I believe it is a word that gets close to my cognitive ideal very well: distillation and dealing with cross-contextual essences. Creative writing is one of the only areas where this comfort zone can be fully operated in - where communication via holophrastic imagery (conceptual as well as linguistic) is actually well-received. My writing - and the writing I tend to like - is usually sparse, free form, and generous with juxtapositions, lingual out-of-the-boxing, and unique (somewhat personal) symbols & metaphors. My thinking tends to be far more idea-oriented than event-oriented.

I do believe N is clearly involved with this but I've also been crediting some of it to Si. My current understanding of Si is that since there is an abstract, inner-oriented attitude towards the concrete, the concrete world in the eyes of an Si dom is more abstract and singular - albeit static compared to Ni dynamism - in terms of meaning by nature. I do not relate to the definitions of Si as narrow, rote, and utterly minute. I find them stifling. But most else is in order. Am I still in the wrong?

I'm certainly an IFJ type. My confusion lately is just as to which. It's a little hard to tell where Pi ends and Ti begins.

Is Ne just integrating with my ego more?
 

Noon

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u8WHTFe.jpg


Wonder if this helps; from a function test 03/29.
 

Noon

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Thank you very much, [MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION]

Some great quotes in a few of those threads. The Nardi video in particular was perfect for this situation and helps me to break away from a vertical-linear function grid to one that's more lateral-simultaneous. I'd read the study before but hadn't watched the presentation.

So question #3 becomes the focus after all. How strange. Since I may be experiencing Si & Ne more seamlessly than I'd thought, I could also be conflating the two at certain points. May be as much my outer perception being abstract-transcontextual as it is my 'attitude towards the concrete' being 'abstract inner-oriented' that's stirring up this confusion.

Thank you again :)
 
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011235813

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You're definitely very unusual, whatever type you are. What happened to ISFP? Set on Pi lead?

Sorry for not engaging more fully with the OP ... I need to work my way into my philosophy lenses and right now, they're just words buzzing and swarming around in my head, waiting to make sense.

I will say that you've always struck me as one of the most intuitive people on here, which makes me want to leap to INFJ but I'm holding myself back from making that jump without thinking about it first.
 

Hypatia

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^ I see from [MENTION=13147]senza tema[/MENTION] that you typed as ISFP, once upon a time. That makes sense to me, because your writing style struck me as very similar to a friend of mine who is also ISFP, and whom I used to date. Another forum member your writing resembles to me is [MENTION=17945]Misty[/MENTION], who used to type as ISFP and who, after several type changes, is now, publically at least, an INFP.

In my experience, ISFPs find it impossible not to be honest with themselves, which is consistent with their recurring themes of self-exploration on this forum.

I have refrained from expressing my formulations to your questions because such an explication would lead to an infinite regress. My theory for this occurence is that the stipulative classifications being used lack a solid phenomenological treatise that explains its basis. My advice is to feel it out for yourself.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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[MENTION=10654]Noon[/MENTION]

something about your avatar is so very ISFP to me.


(And yes, I think it's shallow as fuck to type people based on their avatars, and yet here I am doing just that.)
 

meowington

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(And yes, I think it's shallow as fuck to type people based on their avatars, and yet here I am doing just that.)

Don't we all ;)

[MENTION=10654]Noon[/MENTION] : sounds like you have good Ni and Si skills, depending on the task. Must be pretty handy.
 

Noon

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Thanks for your input, guys.

What happened to ISFP? Set on Pi lead?
My strongest reason for ISFP was that I felt I valued intuition too much to have it last like the ISFJ. But Se is arguably my poorest function and after a while "Fi-Ni loop" stopped seeming like a good enough explanation. I also realized that my Ji leans strongly towards Ti (and so Fe by default, I suppose).

Sorry for not engaging more fully with the OP ... I need to work my way into my philosophy lenses and right now, they're just words buzzing and swarming around in my head, waiting to make sense.

No problem. I'll appreciate any response when it comes :)

I have refrained from expressing my formulations to your questions because such an explication would lead to an infinite regress. My theory for this occurence is that the stipulative classifications being used lack a solid phenomenological treatise that explains its basis. My advice is to feel it out for yourself.
I'm starting to feel this way too.
 

Alea_iacta_est

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The best bet to figuring out what your inferior function is happens to be looking at how it is expressed negatively.

Inferior Ne expresses itself negatively in the form of ominous, dark possibilities arising that seem uncontrollably chaotic and frightening to the Si user, who can only handle so much information at a time to process. When expressed, the ISxJ can see everything that can go wrong, and will become highly negativistic.

Inferior Se expresses itself negatively in the form of a harsh, dark realization about the present, and will often lead to INxJs feeling heavily insecure when dealing with Se tasks that require full immediate attention to the present, and they often foresee possible problems with Se related tasks with their Ni. These people would be the ones to not risk traveling due to the fact that the traffic signs might confuse them, meaning they will probably get lost (juxtaposing the above Ne inferior due to the fact that these predictions are usually correct, they will actually get lost). Also, in extreme cases, negatively expressed Se creates a very materialistic desire to control and possess power, easily describable by the entire series of Breaking Bad with Walter White (INTJ) and his obsession with Empire, Wealth, and Power. Se also causes the INxJs to be blind to the immediate obvious and common sense.

Ni - Hyper-analysis of the past for meaning, personalized integration with concepts and understandings (often leading to idiosyncratic understandings), the ability to predict the future with ease through the assessment of current trends, and the ability to squeeze an absurd amount of information from fragmented or ambiguous data, in addition to the ability to see several perspectives to a problem and immediately zero in on the most efficient perspective (Ni-Je), ignoring information that is not needed (perks to Se inf.).

Si - Nostalgic reliving of the past for the past's sake and worth through memories that are highly detailed and descriptive (in the Si dom), the ability to know ones' own physical and mental limitations extremely specifically as well as knowing ones' own preferences (this option is controversial due to the fact that it melds with Socionics, something I've been digesting in my head) without having to question the self, subjective interpretations and associative take of/on reality (i.e. That cloud looks like a giraffe, I remember a place just like this when I was a kid, etc.). It would probably be best to find an Si dominant to explain Si to you rather than an Ni dominant, as Si is the Ni dominant's Demonic Personality Complex (8th function)

The inferior function imposes itself on the dominant unconsciously and is thus seen as uncontrollable and reckless when it is expressed negatively. It has been postulated that the "shadow" (inferior, not the shadow complexes) is the gateway to the unconscious and therefore holds our desires. Of course, the inferior function can sometimes work in tandem with some functions rather than just tormenting the dominant (which is its inverse) such as the Auxiliary and the Tertiary.
 

infinite

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The best bet to figuring out what your inferior function is happens to be looking at how it is expressed negatively.

Nice stuff, have you got a write up or a link to all the descriptions of all 8 inferior functions?
 

Alea_iacta_est

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Nice stuff, have you got a write up of or a link to all the descriptions of all 8 inferior functions?

These are primarily based off of amalgamated knowledge that I have gathered and digested, but this site is exceptional and made by a member who frequents this forum. (Scroll down some for the discussion of the Anima/Animus)

Also, for negatively expressed inferior functions, you'll have to scrounge up random articles from this book like the one shown here for INTJ inferior Se.
 

BlackCat

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Have you read simulatedworld's type profiles? Also how would you personally define Ni vs Si? Broad questions I know, but it may help you get typed!
 

Noon

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Have you read simulatedworld's type profiles?

Yep yep. Though I have trouble figuring out whether I'm Ne or Se inferior.

Ne can be 'bothersome': I don't like what I perceive to be its aimless divergence & anarchic innovation for innovation's sake; like the attitude that tearing down a system is better than making reforms from within it. When I'm stressed, my mind fills up with negative possibilities that can be absurd but feel urgent to me. I'm threatened by not having at least some plausible notion about the future [for that reason]. But I'm always looking for connections between ideas so aside from that, we cool.

My relationship with Se is more extreme. Se in and of itself - as in strict empiricism - feels less 'bothersome' and more just oppressive (to me). Again when I'm stressed, I can get overactive or sensation-seeking - usually to feel more anchored in my body and in the present either because I've become too detached or I'm avoiding the future. I think I can be hedonistic in some ways although it's very controlled. Recently I've worked hard to become more natural with my instinctual self but it's ebb & flow. I enjoy those who are more natural with theirs.

Also how would you personally define Ni vs Si? Broad questions I know, but it may help you get typed!
Si: keeping instinctive, static templates
Ni: keeping conceptual, dynamic templates

Lol though like I said on the last page, my definitions might be whacked.
 

Noon

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Ni - Hyper-analysis of the past for meaning, personalized integration with concepts and understandings (often leading to idiosyncratic understandings), the ability to predict the future with ease through the assessment of current trends, and the ability to squeeze an absurd amount of information from fragmented or ambiguous data, in addition to the ability to see several perspectives to a problem and immediately zero in on the most efficient perspective (Ni-Je), ignoring information that is not needed (perks to Se inf.).

Si - Nostalgic reliving of the past for the past's sake and worth through memories that are highly detailed and descriptive (in the Si dom), the ability to know ones' own physical and mental limitations extremely specifically as well as knowing ones' own preferences (this option is controversial due to the fact that it melds with Socionics, something I've been digesting in my head) without having to question the self, subjective interpretations and associative take of/on reality (i.e. That cloud looks like a giraffe, I remember a place just like this when I was a kid, etc.). It would probably be best to find an Si dominant to explain Si to you rather than an Ni dominant, as Si is the Ni dominant's Demonic Personality Complex (8th function)

I identify with the bolded.
 

infinite

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3. To what extent can the inferior function assimilate itself (its values) into primary consciousness?

I wanted to say this question was excellent. Can anyone comment on it? :p


My relationship with Se is more extreme. Se in and of itself - as in strict empiricism - feels less 'bothersome' and more just oppressive (to me). Again when I'm stressed, I can get overactive or sensation-seeking - usually to feel more anchored in my body and in the present either because I've become too detached or I'm avoiding the future. I think I can be hedonistic in some ways although it's very controlled. Recently I've worked hard to become more natural with my instinctual self but it's ebb & flow. I enjoy those who are more natural with theirs.

Maybe it's hard for you to answer this one but what exactly do you mean by feeling more (anchored) in your body? I get the part about being in the present, but not sure what your experience is like with changing from detachment into being in your body...?
 

Noon

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Maybe it's hard for you to answer this one but what exactly do you mean by feeling more (anchored) in your body? I get the part about being in the present, but not sure what your experience is like with changing from detachment into being in your body...?

I'll direct so much energy to my head
that I'm not technically fully inhabiting my body. Not literally, but the difference is for instance extremely noticeable after:

  • I've been very active
  • I've experienced a strong emotion like anger, desire, or fear
  • I've experienced a strong physical sensation
  • or otherwise
I'll become more attuned to the physical dimension of my being and it feels like being 'fully alive'; more inside of my body. It can be either 'exhilirating' or disorienting but it's always a grounding wake-up. If it helps at all, I'm pretty sure I'm a socionics IEI. Not totally certain, but pretty sure.

I've mostly refrained from explaining my pov in too much detail here because I'm worried it'll sound silly, but I guess it could only help. I'd rather use plain words than sentences though.

Ni (?): underpinning, skeletal, paradigm shift, the void, archetype, prototype, symbol, multiverse, myth, thing-monism, cross-synchronization, free association, amorphous, meditate, contemplate, spatial, essential, macrocosm, origin, primordial, spontaneous imagery, trace, disentangle.

This is my active mindframe.

Si (?): associative, impression, symbol, subject from object, nostalgia, static, library, personal imagery, gut attachments, embedded meaning, involuntary recall, passeist.

This is my passive mindframe.

I toggle between both and both are very 'important' along with Ti (ego-syntonic).

Se is the function I have the most ... functional trouble with, lol, because its attitude requires I devalue not only one but both of these mindframes. Still, because my mind is so subjective & free-associative, I definitely need it at times to bring me 'back to earth'. Does this make sense? I'm not sure which Pe function is my true inferior because both are ego-dystonic.​
 

infinite

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I'll direct so much energy to my head
that I'm not technically fully inhabiting my body. Not literally, but the difference is for instance extremely noticeable after:

  • I've been very active
  • I've experienced a strong emotion like anger, desire, or fear
  • I've experienced a strong physical sensation
  • or otherwise
I'll become more attuned to the physical dimension of my being and it feels like being 'fully alive'; more inside of my body. It can be either 'exhilirating' or disorienting but it's always a grounding wake-up. If it helps at all, I'm pretty sure I'm a socionics IEI. Not totally certain, but pretty sure.

I've mostly refrained from explaining my pov in too much detail here because I'm worried it'll sound silly, but I guess it could only help. I'd rather use plain words than sentences though.

Ni (?): underpinning, skeletal, paradigm shift, the void, archetype, prototype, symbol, multiverse, myth, thing-monism, cross-synchronization, free association, amorphous, meditate, contemplate, spatial, essential, macrocosm, origin, primordial, spontaneous imagery, trace, disentangle.

This is my active mindframe.

Si (?): associative, impression, symbol, subject from object, nostalgia, static, library, personal imagery, gut attachments, embedded meaning, involuntary recall, passeist.

This is my passive mindframe.

I toggle between both and both are very 'important' along with Ti (ego-syntonic).

Se is the function I have the most ... functional trouble with, lol, because its attitude requires I devalue not only one but both of these mindframes. Still, because my mind is so subjective & free-associative, I definitely need it at times to bring me 'back to earth'. Does this make sense? I'm not sure which Pe function is my true inferior because both are ego-dystonic.​


Interesting... I asked because I don't ever notice a difference in my case, no matter how active I am physically or if I experience a physical sensation etc. Maybe sometimes I feel a bit carried away with some insight - intuitive insight, sometimes these things do happen to me - and I do think I feel a bit "high" then but I still don't feel I'm being outside my body or whatever it is like for you, and these moments are short anyway.

I'm not quite sure if that's because I don't focus on my body separately. My attention is instead directed like this: body and mind are kind of one for me and I either think about something or I listen to/am busy with the outside world/surroundings. Body is seamlessly integrated with all that via my instinctual reactions and decisions and I don't pay attention beyond that. Is this very different from how you are then? :)

What words would you use for your Ti? How is it different from your Ni?​
 

Noon

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My attention is instead directed like this: body and mind are kind of one for me and I either think about something or I listen to/am busy with the outside world/surroundings. Body is seamlessly integrated with all that via my instinctual reactions and decisions and I don't pay attention beyond that. Is this very different from how you are then? :)
8s are the type most in touch with their instincts, right? Must be cool.

@bold: haha yes - for better or worse - unless I integrate to 9.

What words would you use for your Ti? How is it different from your Ni?

Hmm

Configure, deconstruct, delineate, define, classify, arrange, detach, framework shift.

It's conscious, linear, and requires effort. Since mine is only tertiary it also doesn't 'feel' as confident as an IXTP's.
 
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