Heh you later say that F types have control over how to use feelings. So then even F types can be undeveloped yeah? How are undeveloped F types different from T types in terms of this?That’s JCF masquerading as socionics, a IEIs Se motivations remain the same regardless of how effective they are at Se. IEIs particularly Ni subtype are emotionally explosive individuals, the less developed ones tend to have horrible control and unleash it willy nilly think Fiona Apple. At the other end of the spectrum, an IEI will carefully express emotions to control an environment. But no matter which way you swing it they are very expressive, because emotional expression is a very useful tool to have.
If you notice I already explained above that that desc of IEI/SLE duality doesn't make sense to me.On further consideration I have decided this definition of IEI SLE duality is completely useless. One; SLEs are not, “big dreamers” that is the purview of Ne leads, versus Ni leads who are long term dreamers, SLEs really struggle with both. Secondly it’s so vague it could be applied to IXXp EXXp relationships, hell it could apply to IXXx EXXx relationships. I’m blaming it on a bad machine translation.
I can confirm I struggle with the dreaming thingie. It's not to say it's not great to have big dreams and put them into reality but to get the long term big dreams and especially getting them fleshed out, I think some Ni is needed for that. That's my experience anyway... Am I making sense to you here? :P
Why can't that data be Te for e.g. an ILI? So I still really don't see five as exclusive to alpha NT...If I remember correctly and I am rusty at enneagram, a five under stress disintegrates to a seven, they essentially become terrified that they are incompetent and cannot deal with reality. They absorb copious amounts of theoretical data in the hopes of overcoming this dread, mental avarice. A healthy five becomes an expert in whatever field they wish; having learnt how to take care of themselves. In my mind that really does sound like Alpha NTs getting a handle on the Id Block.
What is this about getting a handle on the Id block? I have never heard about this being included in the development of socionics type. Where did you read about it?
Thanks yeah this makes sense, I relate to this pretty well. I'm kind of between LSI and SLE here.Ah I missed that, Beta STs are quite bad at image building. It requires an intricate understanding of group dynamics (FeSe), and the long term vision to see its usefulness (Ni). In LSI you will see next to no image building, longterm planning they can do, but social interaction really isn't their strong point. SLEs will often try to craft an image, but they vastly overestimate their skills and subtlety. To the outside world they usually just end up looking like self-absorbed braggarts, always having to be the centre of the story, the victor, the hero. The smart SLE often realise that the best way to craft an image is by doing what they do best practical ambition, let their work speak for them.
I was asking about soc-last, that can be either sp-first or sx-first.I think the idea of a LSI sp first is probably a common variant. SLE I would say it would be less common, but at the same time not impossible. A Beta NF Sp first, is just such a contradiction, it would end up making all of the Beta NF strengths fall on their head. The Beta NFs are the social butterflies; the Beta STs supply the logistics and drive.
I'm going to say it sounds so boring to just have the role of supplying logistics. :P
What kind of "drive" did you mean? Motivation?
Anyway the reason I asked about this... I really think I'm soc-last but sometimes I get this envious of people who are good at the social stuff and image thingies. I mean I don't care about trying to craft some refined persona, I wouldn't know how I'd go about being refined :P and it'd be too limiting for my natural tendencies, but I still easily notice if it someone else has that sort of thing going on. Social influence, control over the dynamics and a refined image. It's cool. Otoh I'm kind of feeling antagonistic about it at the same time, that's why I used the word "envious". Soc-last people are supposed to be really unaware of these things... Is this just a soc-last Beta then or I'm not soc-last and it's just that I'm simply not good at NF things? Can you even make sense of what I'm talking about here?
Lol. OK, one last thing, how does a Beta typically react to the situation if otherwise being an outsider with regard to the participants of the "cage match"?Alpha naiveté wins the day; they almost never manage to pick up on the image manipulation of the Beta NFs. when the cage match starts they do one of three things; one they avoid the whole shambles, two if they know or like the participants they will pull some sort of comic relief try to ease tensions, or three being confused by the group dynamics wander in an give a speech on individualism.
This is an interesting analysis of IEI/SLE duality. Thanks. Definitely very far from the idealized bullshit Makes a loooooot more sense tbh. Have you got some more examples of this IEI/SLE duality?Of all the Quadras the Betas are the least concerned with being authentic, hence why they irritate the Deltas so much. Betas NFs really do struggle with image issues often times it can become completely detached from reality; actually I might use this to show you a better example of IEI SLE duality. When a IEIs image starts to get so detached an SLE who is a master of objective reality will essentially pull the IEI up on this behaviour. Now if the IEI is in a healthy state of mind; they will correct it to align with their current environment. On the other hand if they are of an unhealthy state of mind, this approach will cause the IEI to react extremely negatively quite often explosively so.
Stratiyevskaya has an excellent, albeit negative example of this:
Lol I would agree. Both on how it it wasn't "crazy raw" and on how it was a pretty good analysis.Heaven save me from Se polr; in a forum that currently has such topics as “rimming”, “when did you lose your virginity”, and “where have you gone at it outside”, trust me when I say that wasn’t even close to being imposingly raw. I think that it was an excellent analysis of yourself; you should be proud that you could stare into the mirror so, not many have the guts for it.
Btw. I just skimmed it but I want to add that I saw more Si than Ne in there and more Fe than Ti. I dunno if that means anything in that context Where do you see Ti-leading for OP? Just simply the nice analysis / description? I didn't see it as very Ti or anything, just someone who's observed themselves for a while.