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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    8s are the type most in touch with their instincts, right? Must be cool.

    @bold: haha yes - for better or worse - unless I integrate to 9.
    Heh yeah I like instinct based stuff.

    Yeah, 9 is very body based I'm sure.


    Hmm

    Configure, deconstruct, delineate, define, classify, arrange, detach, framework shift.

    It's conscious, linear, and requires effort. Since mine is only tertiary it also doesn't 'feel' as confident as an IXTP's.
    Linear? Interesting you'd describe Ti that way. Mine isn't that linear, only somewhat if I'm forced to put stuff into words. But even then I don't see the process as linear. It's more holistic. When something's not put together yet, it's still a constant effort at finding the holistic framework. If it were to be linear, that would be too two-dimensional. If you get what I mean.

    When non verbal it's often very instinctual and automatic too. I guess confidence in it is related to that.

    Also, the classifying stuff is only a part of it, it's a part of a bigger process if that makes sense. I guess the words deconstruct and delineate and arrange are good though. Framework shift is cool too

  2. #22
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    @infinity-

    Yeah, I get what you mean. Maybe linear is the wrong word for it, but I just mean to call it more methodical comparative to either Pi function. It goes in with a purpose whereas Si & Ni alike feel, to me, completely automatic and non-linear and idiosyncratic. There's hardly a 'method to the madness' there; you can trace things after the fact, but on the surface the logical relationships can be obscure even to yourself. One of my friends, an INFP, says he has trouble following my line of thought sometimes; that to an observer some of the things I'm saying wouldn't seem very connected to other things I'm saying or responding to. I'd guess, though, that to an extent the same could be said for Perception functions in general.

    As an example: Once when I thought of the words "lies" and "empty promises" I immediately pictured a stick of chewing gum. This is because I thought all at once of "cheap", sugar causing cavities, and hollowed teeth being familiar with the "feel" of empty. Another time, when I considered the concept of falling in love with a romanticized notion of someone my mind immediately thought of an apple and further drew a parallel to placenta. That was because I thought all at once of self-serving 'love' being analogous to self-created sustenance; something you create and consume specifically to feed a hunger or nourish a need, not to love purely. That's how my Perception works. Tertiary Ti orders those weird impressions so that they make more sense. This may be why mine is so focused on classification compared to yours?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    @infinity-

    Yeah, I get what you mean. Maybe linear is the wrong word for it, but I just mean to call it more methodical comparative to either Pi function. It goes in with a purpose whereas Si & Ni alike feel, to me, completely automatic and non-linear and idiosyncratic. There's hardly a 'method to the madness' there; you can trace things after the fact, but on the surface the logical relationships can be obscure even to yourself. One of my friends, an INFP, says he has trouble following my line of thought sometimes; that to an observer some of the things I'm saying wouldn't seem very connected to other things I'm saying or responding to. I'd guess, though, that to an extent the same could be said for Perception functions in general.

    As an example: Once when I thought of the words "lies" and "empty promises" I immediately pictured a stick of chewing gum. This is because I thought all at once of "cheap", sugar causing cavities, and hollowed teeth being familiar with the "feel" of empty. Another time, when I considered the concept of falling in love with a romanticized notion of someone my mind immediately thought of an apple and further drew a parallel to placenta. That was because I thought all at once of self-serving 'love' being analogous to self-created sustenance; something you create and consume specifically to feed a hunger or nourish a need, not to love purely. That's how my Perception works. Tertiary Ti orders those weird impressions so that they make more sense. This may be why mine is so focused on classification compared to yours?
    Ah I see. Your mind is definitely very very different from mine So yes my Ti indeed has less work to do on such perceptions.

  4. #24
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    just weird

    :]

  5. #25
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    If it helps at all, I'm pretty sure I'm a socionics IEI. Not totally certain, but pretty sure.
    I hope you don’t mind me barging in, but an e6 sp first actually thinking their IEI is extremely surprising in my book, not to say that you’re not. What did you use to type yourself as such? I’m going to guess Information Elements alone.

    Also just some extremely wild speculation, but your description of Ne reminds me of comments made by INXP, about how they feel about it; they like it but at the same time only in measured quantities. Sorry that probably wasn’t a hell of a lot of use to you.
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”

  6. #26
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mobius View Post
    I hope you don’t mind me barging in, but an e6 sp first actually thinking their IEI is extremely surprising in my book, not to say that you’re not. What did you use to type yourself as such? I’m going to guess Information Elements alone.
    Quadras were the deciding factor. EII is what tests often rank me highest as and I do relate to Delta quite a bit, but an overview of Beta NFs gave me the impression that IEI-Ni was the overall better fit.

    It took me a while to decide between e6 and e4; what it boiled down to was my being squarely in the Thinking triad despite my 4 traits. I think of these types as different spheres of the other, really - both as alchemists of some sort but 4s as alchemists of the self and 6s as alchemists of ideas. With the 6 having a kind of hardwired disposition towards global ideas and monitoring conceptual politics - such as power balances for example - I don't think my sp dominance understates the so instinct that seems, from what I've read, to be Beta characteristic. A meaningful, cohesive ideology is most urgent to me & the ethical conclusions would be effects more than causes.

    I haven't known many 6s to be fair, but I seem to form my closest relationships with 4s regardless. We're usually both introspective, creative, sentimental, fantasy (imagination) -oriented and disconnected from the mundane aspects of daily living. You could say I have a conspicuous 4 fix with 6 motivations and concerns.

    Also just some extremely wild speculation, but your description of Ne reminds me of comments made by INXP, about how they feel about it; they like it but at the same time only in measured quantities. Sorry that probably wasn’t a hell of a lot of use to you.
    Ha, it's no problem. All input is appreciated.

  7. #27
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    Quadras were the deciding factor. EII is what tests often rank me highest as and I do relate to Delta quite a bit, but an overview of Beta NFs gave me the impression that IEI-Ni was the overall better fit.
    Yeah an e6 or e9 Feeler often tests as EII and e4s almost always test as IEI. I’m surprised at IEI Ni though, that is usually reserved for the extremely volatile breed of IEI. You seem to be a very calm sort of person.

    It took me a while to decide between e6 and e4; what it boiled down to was my being squarely in the Thinking triad despite my 4 traits. I think of these types as different spheres of the other, really - both as alchemists of some sort but 4s as alchemists of the self and 6s as alchemists of ideas. With the 6 having a kind of hardwired disposition towards global ideas and monitoring conceptual politics - such as power balances for example
    I see what you are getting at, but monitoring power balances isn’t use of Se, everyone with the exception of Se polr can do this. The problem is that Betas are so very much tied in with image triad issues. An IEI who is a heart type is standard, at a stretch I could see a gut, but a six’s nature would run counter to a Betas unconscious need for Se. An alchemist of ideas runs counter to the IEIs wants and needs.

    - I don't think my sp dominance understates the so instinct that seems, from what I've read, to be Beta characteristic. A meaningful, cohesive ideology is most urgent to me & the ethical conclusions would be effects more than causes.
    I must admit I am a bit confused the two sentences seem completely disconnected; the second one is a normal Fe user. As to the first part, it’s as if all the Quadra’s were sat down one day as children and told one fact that they had to live by. For Betas it was the only kind of thing worth having is social power, well technically it was divided into to two; one side learnt that the social realm was were power was, and the other that if they accumulated power the social realm would fall into place. So you can see how a Sp first clashes with that dynamic.

    I haven't known many 6s to be fair, but I seem to form my closest relationships with 4s regardless. We're usually both introspective, creative, sentimental, fantasy (imagination) -oriented and disconnected from the mundane aspects of daily living. You could say I have a conspicuous 4 fix with 6 motivations and concerns.
    Occam’s Razor is ringing in my ears at this point to be honest. One of the most interesting things about this thread is its complete absence of socionics Se; I mean there is absolutely none, which isn’t something you see every day. As a IEIs unconscious suggestive function it should be littered throughout your posts. But I obviously don’t know you in the slightest, so feel free to tell me to move on.
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”

  8. #28
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    INFJ or just weird?
    It's an "and", not an "or"

  9. #29
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mobius View Post
    Yeah an e6 or e9 Feeler often tests as EII and e4s almost always test as IEI. I’m surprised at IEI Ni though, that is usually reserved for the extremely volatile breed of IEI. You seem to be a very calm sort of person.
    A lot of people seem to say this, that I seem so tranquil or cerebral on the outside that it surprises them to find out how charged I am underneath. Not sure if I'd use the word volatile but I do feel things intensely. I attribute this calm/intense double-existence to being sp/sx.

    But more than calm I would say muted - through not having developed the Se that I should have by now. I've learned to express myself creatively but not through presence. My fear of [being overwhelmed by] Se in both systems is what keeps me detaching from it and appearing to be unusually calm as a result.

    That this thread is displaying zero Se is kind of hilarious but unfortunately as to be expected. Would this make me an EII?

    An IEI who is a heart type is standard, at a stretch I could see a gut, but a six’s nature would run counter to a Betas unconscious need for Se. An alchemist of ideas runs counter to the IEIs wants and needs.
    Taking it back to pure Jung, I've seen my animus to essentially be socionics Se personified. I have this admiration of Se-ish types:

    Quote Originally Posted by wikisocion
    IEIs are awed in the face of someone adept at using their willpower or position and exercising their will in opposition to others. IEIs are drawn to people who exude this self-confidence and personal presence; just being with them is enlivening. These are the people who dream big dreams and are capable of achieving them, who aren't fazed by the obstacles that so often stand in the IEI's path.
    This was my animus to a T, which in mbti terms seems to translate to Te. Under this impression I used to believe I was an ISFP.

    Further back on this forum I've praised INTJs various times for their Te and it's been SPs within the last few years who've helped me become less (existentially) muted. I could see SLE being my dual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mobius
    it’s as if all the Quadra’s were sat down one day as children and told one fact that they had to live by. For Betas it was the only kind of thing worth having is social power, well technically it was divided into to two; one side learnt that the social realm was were power was, and the other that if they accumulated power the social realm would fall into place. So you can see how a Sp first clashes with that dynamic.
    This I do somewhat see.

  10. #30
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    That this thread is displaying zero Se is kind of hilarious but unfortunately as to be expected. Would this make me an EII?
    Yeah possibly, I was also tossing up LII as well just because of the structure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    Taking it back to pure Jung, I've seen my animus to essentially be socionics Se personified. I have this admiration of Se-ish types:



    This was my animus to a T, which in mbti terms seems to translate to Te. Under this impression I used to believe I was an ISFP.

    Further back on this forum I've praised INTJs various times for their Te and it's been SPs within the last few years who've helped me become less (existentially) muted. I could see SLE being my dual.

    This I do somewhat see.
    But having read all of this, IEI makes a lot of sense. I’m going to chalk this up to my own and socionics bias for IEIs to be 4w3 So/Sx/Sp. That makes all of this a bit pointless, sorry for wasting your time.
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”

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