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  1. #71
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    What do Betas have then instead?
    The group.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #72
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    What do Betas have then instead? I guess you were saying that "chivalrous knight" is a Delta ideal?
    I would say that a Beta group would be based around being special, being different, being better, than those around them. It can range from such groups as motorbike clubs to university secret societies, actually secret societies in general are very Beta i.e. Masons.
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    The group.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mobius View Post
    I would say that a Beta group would be based around being special, being different, being better, than those around them. It can range from such groups as motorbike clubs to university secret societies, actually secret societies in general are very Beta i.e. Masons.
    Mhmmm okay. Makes more sense than the Delta shit :P

  4. #74
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mobius View Post
    I would say that a Beta group would be based around being special, being different, being better, than those around them. It can range from such groups as motorbike clubs to university secret societies, actually secret societies in general are very Beta i.e. Masons.
    Tho I would say that it is basically about the group. I know beta groups who pride themselves in being utterly ordinary people. Tho you need to differentiate here that not always all people of the group are beta. Most often its only the accepted leader who is beta. He tho then is a very passive leader as long as the group recognizes him as such.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #75
    Stansmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mobius View Post
    If you don’t mind me asking what type have you settled on?



    Oops forgot about this, I would add that it doesn’t have to be a conscious act, for instance comparing and judging groups as opposed to actively searching out groups to join.



    Yes but I really should have stated that that is an example of a Delta aristocrat, a Beta would scoff at such pretentious ideals.
    I've decided tentatively on ESI.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Tho I would say that it is basically about the group. I know beta groups who pride themselves in being utterly ordinary people. Tho you need to differentiate here that not always all people of the group are beta. Most often its only the accepted leader who is beta. He tho then is a very passive leader as long as the group recognizes him as such.
    Heh interesting. I certainly wouldn't pride myself in being "utterly ordinary".

    Why are they passive leaders? Enough for them just to know that they're recognized as leaders?

  7. #77
    Senior Member Retmeishka's Avatar
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    I haven't read this whole thread yet... I'm just adding to all the people so far who have said SEE / ESFP. I agree with that and it was my first impression upon reading the post. To me, it's so obvious that I don't even feel like I need to prove it or argue it. I can't see any other alternative type but that - it just jumps right out, the writing style and the whole way of thinking in general.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retmeishka View Post
    I haven't read this whole thread yet... I'm just adding to all the people so far who have said SEE / ESFP. I agree with that and it was my first impression upon reading the post. To me, it's so obvious that I don't even feel like I need to prove it or argue it. I can't see any other alternative type but that - it just jumps right out, the writing style and the whole way of thinking in general.
    Thanks for your opinion. I would like to hear why / how it's obvious to you; I'm not questioning your opinion, just would like to know the reasoning for it. E.g. what do you see my way of thinking as? What does my writing style seem like? Thanks.

  9. #79
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    From another thread...


    Quote Originally Posted by calb View Post
    I'm asking because I'm trying to use socionics' subtype to understand why you feel you need to be ISTP in MBTI. SLE-ESTp-Ti could perhaps make you feel like an introverted extraverted attitude. That would also suite the e-8. Just thinking out loud. Hence why we have this big old, socionics isn't MBTI argument. Socionics have more boxes to play with and we can fine grain it.
    ISTP? Profiles and inferior Fe. (MBTI Fe)

    But yes I'm not very introverted. Not like INxx's, I mean, I'm not at all oversensitive to stimuli in general.

    As for the socionics type, some people have actually seen me as LSI > SLE, I don't relate to the enneagram 1-ish descriptions of LSI though.

    I do relate quite well to Ti as defined by Augusta, I really like that one here. Otoh, I can relate to Ti as creative function, too.



    ...I'll add this: must 8's (or even 7's, I have a lot of 7 going on too) be always like the typical extravert? In terms of being socially extraverted or in some other way?

    And, to reply to your PM a bit more in detail; as for MBTI ESTP... The ESTP type profiles seem more extraverted than I am. In an MBTI sense anyway. I don't focus so exclusively on MBTI Se as ESTP's seem to. Not in any stereotypical way. I relate to socionics Se more. I mentioned it before but I score as much Te as Se in MBTI function tests (and Ti is right there too).

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    I'd like to further explore things to understand better.


    Here's Augusta's

    I bolded what I strongly relate to. I put in red what I completely lack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Augusta
    This is the subjective relationship between two carriers of potential or kinetic energy that shows the level of attraction (or repulsion) between one object or subject and another object or subject. Thanks to this IM element a person feels which objects attract him and which repel him. You might say that this perceptual element conveys information about objects' need or lack of need of each other and about the presence or absence of mutual or one-way needs.
    Such an individual perceives information about this facet of objective reality the individual perceives as a need for certain objects that satisfy physical wishes/desires, psychological or spiritual desires, and a need for other peoplein other words, a person's wishes/desires and interests that are directed toward animate and inanimate objects. This includes feelings of like and dislike, love and hatred, the desire to obtain some thing/object, etc., and greed or the absense of greed. The higher feelings of this kind can be called ethical, because relationships between people's needs are mainly regulated by ethical normals.
    When this perceptual element is in the leading position, the individual possesses the innate ability to perceive and evaluate wishes/desires — both his own and others'. He always knows who wants what from whom. He is able to set his awareness of subjective reality and his wishes in opposition to those of others. He has the ability to mould and perfect both his own and others' wishes. He possesses both the ability to provide himself with necessary relationships with others and confidence in his capacity to influence other people. His correct perception of human needs allows him to avoid risky collisions when satisfying his own needs. This engenders the ability to manipulate people's attachments, and the ability and desire to influence people's ethical feelings and bring these feelings closer to societal ideals.
    Overall, I'm not sure what the thing about an object attracting/repelling means. Does it mean more than just a materialistic desire or aesthetic feelings, in the context of Fi? How is it "more" if so? How do "certain object" satisfy psychological or spiritual desires? I know what spirituality is like but I hardly associate that with anything tangible so this part didn't make a lot of sense to me. Well edchidna1000 did explain some of this before but it was pretty generic...

    As for "relationships between people's needs are mainly regulated by ethical normals"... @BlackCat, would you give me some examples on how you regulate them that way? Some real life examples?

    And some examples for the stuff below too?
    Quote Originally Posted by SEE
    The person easily creates a sense of closeness and kinship between people by expressing like and acceptance
    (quoting from SEE description)

    Also I think you missed my earlier post to you ...I had some simple questions in there

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