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  1. #61
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    @Alea_iacta_est

    I had a question for you a while ago Quoting:
    Interesting how you have refuted information that I have presented to you yet you simultaneously call upon me to answer your questions anyhow. No matter.

    Your Ji specifically resonates in the fact that you remain detached from new information, that you screen information according to what makes sense to you logically and through principles you have probably unconsciously developed in your mind to help figure out things.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Interesting how you have refuted information that I have presented to you yet you simultaneously call upon me to answer your questions anyhow. No matter.
    Heh well if you recall what I said about my attitude to "authorities", I said I think with my own brain instead. Yes Socionics does actually describe that pretty well when it says Ti/Fe types just deal with the information (and filter that directly) instead of being selective about the source (filter source).


    Your Ji specifically resonates in the fact that you remain detached from new information, that you screen information according to what makes sense to you logically and through principles you have probably unconsciously developed in your mind to help figure out things.
    Hmm yeah that happens a lot of the time. Yes some of the stuff is automatic / unconscious.

    As for the idea of always taking in new information in this detached way.. I will have to think more about that, whether it depends on specific circumstances or it's more general than that.

  3. #63
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Focus on achieving goals and one's individuality. Visions become reality with planning and hard work.
    (Oh yes darling.)

    and

    I put a lot of effort into maintaining my relationships and place a lot of value on them. I help those I care about to achieve their goals through motivation and encouragement. I care about how I look and often enjoy unique styles that help me stand out from the crowd.
    (Oh second and third sentences YES)
    What about the first sentence though? You remind me of an SLE I know. She is very much a caring person, but at the same time can turn a blind eye to some dynamics socially, but it's not that she doesn't care. Do you have a hard time gauging how well your relationships are working out? Do you tend to assume everyone likes you?

    Have fun in a light-hearted atmosphere; enjoy life and don't take it too seriously.
    (What, no, no, my problem is I take life too seriously haha... I enjoy it too, though.)
    That's Beta for you, especially SLEs- taking life super seriously, but having a blast whilst doing it!

    I love helping take care of the ones I love. Whether it's providing emotional support or a comfortable atmosphere, my friends and family will always come first in my life. I care about how I look but comfort usually comes first.
    (Whaat, no, looks come before comfort. I'm not too worried about whatever comfortable atmosphere either. Friends are cool though)
    This sounds like valued Fe and suppressed Si.


    Those things have led me to believe I may be in the Gamma quadra. Now to be more precise on how I relate to all the above and some other Gamma stuff;

    Sure I don't focus on goals all day long, no I'm too impulsive for that and sometimes just too lazy for it, but I do need to have some goals every day. Some immediate ones and some longer term stuff as well. If I just have the immediate ones, great, it means lots of life is definitely going on, well it mainly means there's been stuff I desired to get and went out to get it; but at the end of the day I will feel like I'm missing something, as if nothing really happened. The long term visions are definitely crucial in giving more point to my life.

    Before you ask what if there's no immediate short term goals, well I'll say that's not a state that can go on for very long. It will be alright for a while but then I will feel like too low energy or something. No no, I'm not always on the go or industrious, I can be really fucking lazy and enjoy that too but I can't be like that all day. I think it's also related to the Decisive reinin dichotomy, I'm more ready than relaxed. My whole body goes along with that!

    So, overall, I like planning, I'm fine with making pretty efficient plans and like working hard by executing these plans but I'm definitely not a workaholic either. I just can't be bothered with being a real workaholic. I like havin' fun too. Means I'm a big procrastinator on unwanted things actually. Only the deadlines or whatever other external circumstances will force me to do those tasks.
    This all just screams Ni dual seeking to me, especially the bolded (I relate to this too).

    Individuality, yeah well I honestly don't know what it means when someone's got "charisma". I'm blind to that sort of thing. I'm also blind to all emotional group based reasoning. I need to understand things for myself. If something I'm interested in doesn't make sense, I readily argue heatedly, ruining group harmony. I can also ruin the harmony by being demanding of what I want, placing my own needs over what the group wants. Also, I don't really easily belong to groups, I don't know what it means to be part of them. I'm not into following someone else's group. I'm not going along with whatever others feel should be at a given moment.
    You definitely value Ti over Fi I believe.

    As for motivating and encouraging people to get closer to their goals, I happily do that by directly providing motivation and by offering knowledge on how to do things, I also prefer explaining the stuff along with it, as I don't like it if someone just mindlessly follows a "how to" list of instructions. I also like to help people keep up with stuff they've already started, I like to make them focus on long term results, I tell them not to get stuck in the moment when there's an obstacle discouraging them, I like to explain how it's better to focus into the future. That's because it helps you get past difficulties, you know it's only temporary and more than that, you see the trends, see how things work over long term, which is useful, and especially see that you are getting better/closer to goal/etc.
    Bolded is very blatantly Beta ST in my opinion, and your value of Ti is really apparent. As a Te valuer, I don't really mind having a mindless to do list as long as I'm going to have the desired end result. You are very much an SLE in my opinion.

    As for caring about my looks and standing out with my looks, YEP. This needs no more explaining really. Well I don't want to look like a freak so I'm somewhat conservative with my dressing but I do like to play with my dressing style. The more sensory impact the better, to a degree, I said I'm somewhat conservative. OK, in my boldest moments, I let go of some of the conservatism but not all of it even then. My sister however says I'm really extravagant. Sure, compared to her I am. She's very subdued with her looks/clothing. I stand out a lot more. Funny example on our differences; I bought her a piece of clothing as a gift recently, I thought it'll fit her really well. She said she liked it but it was too "extravagant" for her (her actual word usage). I saw nothing "extravagant" about it, honestly. Our tolerances for that stuff are at very different levels clearly, she being a lot more sensitive.
    Beta much?

    Finally, relationships. I do place high value on them but only in theory. In reality I don't look like I care much. That's because I honestly don't think of it often enough. Or when I try to care it gets complicated fast. When I decide I should actively work towards caring about my relationships, it tends to be interpreted as me being demanding. (That fits the choleric temperament in the relationship area scarily well. E.g. in Dr. Rick Martin's temperament book or whatever) I will say "demanding" isn't a bad word for this, it's my requirement for devotion in close relationships.

    But most of the time I apparently don't look like I care. Here's an example, a friend of mine got seriously offended - and I found out from someone else only much later by accident - that one day we were talking about such special things, plans for the future to do things together then next day I looked like I didn't care anymore. Honestly I have no idea why she got that impression. I didn't mention the "special stuff" later, sure, but she also didn't!! So why blame me? Same friend also called me "too dramatic" later when after her distancing from me I tried to get close again.
    This sounds like PoLR Fi. It is apparently rampant in EXTps personal relationships, I have only seen it happen but I could never truly explain it as you have here.

    There's this other problem with Gamma, I don't relate to the hardline ethics thingie, mine is more... how to say, flexible. Like, I can say to someone, "fuck, you're such a psychopath, not caring about your friend?!?!". I'm really upset and angry in those moments for sure. Anyway, next minute I totally forget the whole argument, I take that quality from my family, no one holds grudges in my family, things are out in the open right away and that's lovely. We look like we are seriously going to kill each other in one moment then next moment everyone's happy with everyone else.
    Yes, Beta! Right here. Every Gamma that I know, including myself, holds grudges of some kind. We are a very... "personal" quadra. I personally will remember forever that person's actions and always hold them against them if similar things come up ever again.

    That latter quality is Fe-ish, I know. I however got the Gamma-ish individualism, because I don't relate to the Beta groupthink. Whatever "ideologies" I may like is my own stuff, not gonna follow others. I'm impervious to emotionally based reasoning, I dislike cults too. I dislike the idea of trying to join emotionality if I don't feel part of a group and I often don't, as I mentioned above.
    I think the majority of what you aren't relating to about this is on the Beta-NF side of things.

    Now to complicate things more. I did give some example above that was about judging in the heat of the moment, but I don't necessarily use ethical judgments even in such moments of conflict, sometimes I just express how I'm really upset, simply shout, throw shit, etc. Yap, bad temper and yes I must express my emotions. Flexible Fi or bad Fe use?
    Fe. If you aren't using ethical judgments and all you do is just express your feelings in the moment, that's Fe. Whenever that "moment" comes up for me it's because a huge judgment has been building up inside of me for a while.

    [quote]Also, if someone did something bad to me, I will revenge that but not out of a refined ethics motivation. It's out of plain anger, done right there and then, not refined and I don't really decide in some unchanging way that the person's character itself is bad. It doesn't mean I will still trust them in future, though. If it's a bad idea in a practical sense then I will not trust. And if I threaten someone with shit, that's also not usually due to ethical judgments, it's usually just to get something, so out of more of a material or territorial motivation than of any use of a sophisticated ethical framework. Alright I'm not perfect in this sense.[quote]

    If someone wrongs me, as a Gamma, then I will judge their character because of it. And most of the time when I threaten someone to get something it's to have some kind of "redeeming factor" applied to them as a person. I still think you're way more Ti in this sense.

    Otoh I can really get upset over certain people's troubles caused by other people, I will really go out of my way to defend them. Some of those people are family and some are just random people who got the unfair treatment in certain situations.
    Again with the Ti. Unfairness? Right there you go. I'm not saying that Fi users don't get offended by unfairness either, but it seems like that is a typical Ti "offense" when it comes to other people, is that something unfair has happened.

    What I'm good at though, and I recall it may be some F thing, it is changing my attitudes to get a goal of mine, to get something I desire. I can become really diplomatic and kind and nice to certain people at times to get what I want when this seems to be the most efficient route especially if there's time constraints. Though I don't do that with family or friends, with them I don't ever need to be a diplomat at all and that's comfortable haha. The problem with that is that me being completely myself without inhibition will offend some more sensitive friends.
    This is pretty Fe too.

    Verdict? Wow. Such SLE. Much Fi PoLR.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    What about the first sentence though? You remind me of an SLE I know. She is very much a caring person, but at the same time can turn a blind eye to some dynamics socially, but it's not that she doesn't care.
    Did you just mean personal relationship dynamics? How does she look at group dynamics?


    Do you have a hard time gauging how well your relationships are working out? Do you tend to assume everyone likes you?
    I actually don't try to gauge it; if the question ever comes up I will just ask the person. Sound weird to you? Well that's just how I work... I don't understand people who try to speculate about this sort of stuff. I don't like to make assumptions on this.

    I don't really specifically assume that everyone likes me but I don't assume the opposite either. I probably just unconsciously assume that others approach me the same way I do it, sort of impersonal, treating everyone the same. In my bad moments I can get a bit worried and that's when I ask and I also ask about stuff that the person did/said that made no sense to me / was confusing in terms of their attitude towards me.


    That's Beta for you, especially SLEs- taking life super seriously, but having a blast whilst doing it!
    That's not a bad sum-up


    This all just screams Ni dual seeking to me, especially the bolded (I relate to this too).
    So LSI doesn't really have that problem?


    You definitely value Ti over Fi I believe.
    ...and over Fe too, a lot of the time :/

    (I know "valuing" Ti over Fe is the wrong term to use to describe the Ti/Fe dynamics but it's kind of what it feels like sometimes)


    Bolded is very blatantly Beta ST in my opinion, and your value of Ti is really apparent. As a Te valuer, I don't really mind having a mindless to do list as long as I'm going to have the desired end result. You are very much an SLE in my opinion.
    Well when you know why the "to do list" is the way it is, you also gain more control over things.


    This sounds like PoLR Fi. It is apparently rampant in EXTps personal relationships, I have only seen it happen but I could never truly explain it as you have here.
    Well I'm glad if I happened to explain it for you

    I still think though that she should've realized that she made the same mistake I did. If she had actually wanted a closer, more meaningful relationship then she didn't do a lot for it herself. (I don't know her type btw, just that she's very F)


    Yes, Beta! Right here. Every Gamma that I know, including myself, holds grudges of some kind. We are a very... "personal" quadra. I personally will remember forever that person's actions and always hold them against them if similar things come up ever again.
    Don't you feel the need to have things out in the open? I find if I don't do that I'll just build up resentment which I don't like. Not that it's a real decision to try and avoid the resentment; I will usually express myself anyway, I can't hold things in.

    This is also reminiscent of the enneagram reactive triad to me...


    I think the majority of what you aren't relating to about this is on the Beta-NF side of things.
    Yeah maybe


    Fe. If you aren't using ethical judgments and all you do is just express your feelings in the moment, that's Fe. Whenever that "moment" comes up for me it's because a huge judgment has been building up inside of me for a while.
    I do use some judgments as given in the example earlier but it's a more in the moment thing. I forget them quickly. I never do this "huge judgment building up" thingie on any conscious level.


    If someone wrongs me, as a Gamma, then I will judge their character because of it. And most of the time when I threaten someone to get something it's to have some kind of "redeeming factor" applied to them as a person. I still think you're way more Ti in this sense.
    What redeeming factor? An example please?


    Verdict? Wow. Such SLE. Much Fi PoLR.
    Lol thanks.

    Guess yet another point for SLE over LSI. Hmm...

    Btw you are ISFP->SEE, in the same fashion, I would be ISTP->SLE? heh.

  5. #65
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Did you just mean personal relationship dynamics? How does she look at group dynamics?
    Kinda hard to say because the last thing on her priority list is dynamics between others. She is the type to do her own thing socially and not really care about what others think, and others tend to follow suit with her. Yeah I meant personal relationship dynamics.

    I actually don't try to gauge it; if the question ever comes up I will just ask the person. Sound weird to you? Well that's just how I work... I don't understand people who try to speculate about this sort of stuff. I don't like to make assumptions on this.
    It's not really speculation to Fi users, it's observations and connections made between people and things. This is why I think Fi is your PoLR, or one of the main reasons anyway.

    So LSI doesn't really have that problem?
    Well LSI isn't so, I guess, malleable about the future compared to SLEs. They have Ni as a hidden agenda, so they tend to be structured with their Ni and actively and very deliberately pursue goals in an independent fashion. I kind of see the SXEs as being very goal oriented, but maybe needing some help from others. This is why I personally enjoy talking to others about my goals so that I may be able to change my course or do things differently to make sure everything is being done properly or the way I want it to be done. LSIs I don't think do much with this. LSIs are actually pretty concerned with what others think of them. There are some subtle differences between the two but I think on the scale you fall onto SLE.

    Well when you know why the "to do list" is the way it is, you also gain more control over things.
    If it concerns me personally, then I will find out why it is how it is. Or if something in particular at work is a pain in the ass I will try to understand how it is. But generally I don't really think much, I just "do" at work. If something needs to be done a certain way, by god I can do it that way, but I concern myself with other things going on and only until something comes up to make me question it will I. If that makes sense. That SLE I was talking about was actually with me on the same management team, and it was pretty cool working with her because she most of the time already had the answers I needed because she had found them on my own, but she was hopeless at creating harmony at work and understanding why some people did certain things a certain way or performed a certain way, which is why I think I was useful in that situation.

    Don't you feel the need to have things out in the open? I find if I don't do that I'll just build up resentment which I don't like. Not that it's a real decision to try and avoid the resentment; I will usually express myself anyway, I can't hold things in.
    It really depends on what it is. If I know that it would be all too selfish to keep something inside, then I'll let everyone know or warn everyone if I suspect it may cause something to go wrong. This is especially true of my friends, who I'm really open with and try to keep them as well informed on things as possible. But other than that, I think I kind of thrive on resentment, and it gives me a bit of a sick pleasure knowing that the person knows I don't like them and that's why I am how I am, or that I feel a certain way and that's just how it is. Such is being an SEE 9 I suppose, aggressive-passive aggression? I just see no purpose in letting those know that I don't like how I feel on the inside. That's kind of the way I treat friends/people I like vs the others, it's usually really black and white. I think a lot of people like me, but also a lot of people don't like me. I think that this hints at the Fi being valued for me and not so much for you, because my internal feelings are reserved for friends and such. That isn't to say that I won't speak my mind, but my deeper feelings and more vulnerable things are for my friends.

    I do use some judgments as given in the example earlier but it's a more in the moment thing. I forget them quickly. I never do this "huge judgment building up" thingie on any conscious level.
    That's what I usually do. Quite the opposite!

    What redeeming factor? An example please?
    Well if someone has the balls to actually stand up to me when I express some dislike of what they do it actually kind of sparks some respect in me, and I'll be more inclined to listen to someone that takes themselves seriously. And from there we can get on the same page as each other and maybe understand each other.

    Btw you are ISFP->SEE, in the same fashion, I would be ISTP->SLE? heh.
    Yes. ISTP SLE isn't so uncommon, but I've only seen one other ISFP SEE on the internet. Thing is, Se dominance doesn't necessarily have to be overtly extroverted. Extroversion just makes sense for me as a person in a socionics lens, but biologically (if that makes sense) I can get drained by external stimuli and need to go be by myself to get recharged.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Kinda hard to say because the last thing on her priority list is dynamics between others. She is the type to do her own thing socially and not really care about what others think, and others tend to follow suit with her. Yeah I meant personal relationship dynamics.
    Yeah the last thing for me too lol


    It's not really speculation to Fi users, it's observations and connections made between people and things. This is why I think Fi is your PoLR, or one of the main reasons anyway.
    Yeah I see what you mean. I'm sure it's a sane way of thinking actually, for a Fi ego type. Not for me


    Well LSI isn't so, I guess, malleable about the future compared to SLEs. They have Ni as a hidden agenda, so they tend to be structured with their Ni and actively and very deliberately pursue goals in an independent fashion. I kind of see the SXEs as being very goal oriented, but maybe needing some help from others. This is why I personally enjoy talking to others about my goals so that I may be able to change my course or do things differently to make sure everything is being done properly or the way I want it to be done. LSIs I don't think do much with this. LSIs are actually pretty concerned with what others think of them. There are some subtle differences between the two but I think on the scale you fall onto SLE.
    That's interesting. I never felt I needed help from others for setting and pursuing goals. I'm not really receptive to others suggesting what goals I should set for myself, incl long term ones, or how to change course for them. If I realize I need to change course, I will tend to do that on my own. Then maybe it's just me not being very talkative or something.

    As a kid I didn't ever think about the future in this fashion at all but as a teenager I started developing a bit of that capability and then I was able to set certain meaningful goals for myself. Before that I was a bit more "clueless", but even then I didn't ever talk to others about this stuff, I just went my own way about things, just it was more immediate stuff as I simply didn't know what I was going to do in future. I'm still not very good at it, it takes some effort to make myself focus in this way but I kind of like it.

    OK, I do like to talk about this stuff more now than I did when I was a teenager but I still don't like to talk about goals in detail very much because it's all talk that way and no action. I don't like the feeling of "all talk", how I'm just imagining at those moments and not *doing*. And if I need planning for them, I'll just plan in my own head. Pretty quickly really. Sure I might need to look up things to make the plan and I may ask others very concrete questions for that. Though these plans aren't necessarily very detailed. Only detailed to the extent that it's realistic, basically the further in future, the less detailed.

    Possibly I'm just an SLE who didn't realize yet how much better it would be to discuss this stuff more often with others. ??

    In what way or why do LSIs care about what others think of them? Is that some Fe thing? How was this comment of yours related to this topic of goals, if it was?


    That SLE I was talking about was actually with me on the same management team, and it was pretty cool working with her because she most of the time already had the answers I needed because she had found them on my own, but she was hopeless at creating harmony at work and understanding why some people did certain things a certain way or performed a certain way, which is why I think I was useful in that situation.
    Heh I can imagine..


    It really depends on what it is. If I know that it would be all too selfish to keep something inside, then I'll let everyone know or warn everyone if I suspect it may cause something to go wrong. This is especially true of my friends, who I'm really open with and try to keep them as well informed on things as possible. But other than that, I think I kind of thrive on resentment, and it gives me a bit of a sick pleasure knowing that the person knows I don't like them and that's why I am how I am, or that I feel a certain way and that's just how it is. Such is being an SEE 9 I suppose, aggressive-passive aggression? I just see no purpose in letting those know that I don't like how I feel on the inside. That's kind of the way I treat friends/people I like vs the others, it's usually really black and white. I think a lot of people like me, but also a lot of people don't like me. I think that this hints at the Fi being valued for me and not so much for you, because my internal feelings are reserved for friends and such. That isn't to say that I won't speak my mind, but my deeper feelings and more vulnerable things are for my friends.
    Interesting. And my internal feelings are.. nowhere lol.


    Yes. ISTP SLE isn't so uncommon, but I've only seen one other ISFP SEE on the internet. Thing is, Se dominance doesn't necessarily have to be overtly extroverted. Extroversion just makes sense for me as a person in a socionics lens, but biologically (if that makes sense) I can get drained by external stimuli and need to go be by myself to get recharged.
    Hm interesting. I get what you meant by biological extravert/introvert. I think I'm "biologically" an extravert if stimuli isn't social stuff, very much an extravert in fact. If it's social stuff, I can get drained, though it depends. I get drained fast if e.g. I have to talk too much. Say, it's a group of people sitting at a table sipping tea and talking about whatever. Noo, that kills me fast. If I'm just out there doing things together with whoever else, I don't ever get drained (as long as I have a say in things, in control etc etc). Maybe it's due to a less exclusive focus on socializing. I'm pretty sure this is some Fe related issue too. Make sense to you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    That's interesting. I never felt I needed help from others for setting and pursuing goals. I'm not really receptive to others suggesting what goals I should set for myself, incl long term ones, or how to change course for them. If I realize I need to change course, I will tend to do that on my own. Then maybe it's just me not being very talkative or something.
    Well I didn't really mean NEEDING help, because let's face it, it's rare for an ESP to say that they need help. And maybe this is one of those SEE and SLE differences. SEE being receptive to Te probably changes things up in that way.

    As a kid I didn't ever think about the future in this fashion at all but as a teenager I started developing a bit of that capability and then I was able to set certain meaningful goals for myself. Before that I was a bit more "clueless", but even then I didn't ever talk to others about this stuff, I just went my own way about things, just it was more immediate stuff as I simply didn't know what I was going to do in future. I'm still not very good at it, it takes some effort to make myself focus in this way but I kind of like it.
    Yeah I had to open up about my future plans. It was a bit stagnant and didn't seem like I was moving forward as fast as I could be when I didn't.

    OK, I do like to talk about this stuff more now than I did when I was a teenager but I still don't like to talk about goals in detail very much because it's all talk that way and no action. I don't like the feeling of "all talk", how I'm just imagining at those moments and not *doing*. And if I need planning for them, I'll just plan in my own head. Pretty quickly really. Sure I might need to look up things to make the plan and I may ask others very concrete questions for that. Though these plans aren't necessarily very detailed. Only detailed to the extent that it's realistic, basically the further in future, the less detailed.

    Possibly I'm just an SLE who didn't realize yet how much better it would be to discuss this stuff more often with others. ??
    Talking about the future can be a fun thing too. It's a great conversation piece to share what your plans are and to hear what others' plans are, in my experience. Especially when talking to an INTp!

    In what way or why do LSIs care about what others think of them? Is that some Fe thing? How was this comment of yours related to this topic of goals, if it was?
    Yeah I think that they care more about others because their Fi is consciously used unlike SLE. Also, with Fe dual seeking they seem more inclined to want to be liked then SLEs. I just kind of went off on a tangent to compare the two types since you mentioned perhaps relating to LSI in a way.

    I've noticed a lot of socionics people will type others as LSI for some reason. So I wanted to throw that tidbit in. According to some I've seen, 50% of every human being is an LSI and can be any enneatype. >_> /sarcasm

    Hm interesting. I get what you meant by biological extravert/introvert. I think I'm "biologically" an extravert if stimuli isn't social stuff, very much an extravert in fact. If it's social stuff, I can get drained, though it depends. I get drained fast if e.g. I have to talk too much. Say, it's a group of people sitting at a table sipping tea and talking about whatever. Noo, that kills me fast. If I'm just out there doing things together with whoever else, I don't ever get drained (as long as I have a say in things, in control etc etc). Maybe it's due to a less exclusive focus on socializing. I'm pretty sure this is some Fe related issue too. Make sense to you?
    Yeah that's exactly how I am. When it comes to activities, even with other people, I tend to have a blast and feel great about it. But the more socializing I do, the more drained I get. This is much better when interacting with fellow introverts because I don't have to force myself to be a particular way it seems.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Well I didn't really mean NEEDING help, because let's face it, it's rare for an ESP to say that they need help. And maybe this is one of those SEE and SLE differences. SEE being receptive to Te probably changes things up in that way.
    Ahh could be. And yep it's rare hahahah


    Yeah I had to open up about my future plans. It was a bit stagnant and didn't seem like I was moving forward as fast as I could be when I didn't.
    And when you opened up about the plans, did it help much?


    Talking about the future can be a fun thing too. It's a great conversation piece to share what your plans are and to hear what others' plans are, in my experience. Especially when talking to an INTp!
    Yeah for a short time it's fun enough but then I get kind of bored and upset by how it's not real, not actual doing.

    I'm not trying to say that I can't sit on my ass discussing something deep but when it comes to my actual life, I'm not a daydreamer, I'd much rather act than imagine what I'll be doing.

    Do you relate to that at all?


    Yeah I think that they care more about others because their Fi is consciously used unlike SLE. Also, with Fe dual seeking they seem more inclined to want to be liked then SLEs. I just kind of went off on a tangent to compare the two types since you mentioned perhaps relating to LSI in a way.
    Yes I thought you mentioned it for that reason. I still need to understand better what the Fe DS looks like for LSIs as compared to Fe HA for SLE .


    I've noticed a lot of socionics people will type others as LSI for some reason. So I wanted to throw that tidbit in. According to some I've seen, 50% of every human being is an LSI and can be any enneatype. >_> /sarcasm
    Oh heh.


    Yeah that's exactly how I am. When it comes to activities, even with other people, I tend to have a blast and feel great about it. But the more socializing I do, the more drained I get. This is much better when interacting with fellow introverts because I don't have to force myself to be a particular way it seems.
    Oooh soulmate! :p

    I don't actually try to force myself to be whatever persona, just too little activity, too much talk in those situations.

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    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    Ah, interesting. If anything, I'd say I'm interested in self-actualization on my own terms while developing valuable relationships along the way..
    If you don’t mind me asking what type have you settled on?

    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    What about someone who doesn't really adhere to any values or such codes of whatever role? (Nor to any idea of how "to be oneself".) That would be me btw.
    Oops forgot about this, I would add that it doesn’t have to be a conscious act, for instance comparing and judging groups as opposed to actively searching out groups to join.

    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    As for being part of something greater, elaborate on that? Does that mean following someone else's lead, someone else's ideas, etc.? Because then I definitely don't relate.
    Yes but I really should have stated that that is an example of a Delta aristocrat, a Beta would scoff at such pretentious ideals.
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mobius View Post
    Oops forgot about this, I would add that it doesn’t have to be a conscious act, for instance comparing and judging groups as opposed to actively searching out groups to join.
    I see, yeah I think it's not done too consciously for me.


    Yes but I really should have stated that that is an example of a Delta aristocrat, a Beta would scoff at such pretentious ideals.
    What do Betas have then instead? I guess you were saying that "chivalrous knight" is a Delta ideal?

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