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  1. #21
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    @Alea_iacta_est
    @senza tema
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    Please see my previous post in this thread, I'm stuck

  2. #22
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Interaction with you clearly resounds Ji lead or creative, most likely the former.

    Ji most definitely equals Ti in your specific case.

    LxI (Alpha or Beta)

    Assuming that you chose the two quadras in your title because you honestly believe you fit in one or the other,

    LSI.

    Which makes some sense as to why you would consider Gamma, ISTjs are much more serious and task-oriented, rational even, than the other 3 types in Beta quadra.

  3. #23
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    Se/Ni valuing, leaning towards irrational. Your questionnaire does read like SEE but if you don't identify with Ti PoLR, then try SLE, I guess. Or maybe LSI, though that's a rational type. You vibe a bit like another member named @valaki, who I think is ESTP.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Interaction with you clearly resounds Ji lead or creative, most likely the former.

    Ji most definitely equals Ti in your specific case.

    LxI (Alpha or Beta)

    Assuming that you chose the two quadras in your title because you honestly believe you fit in one or the other,

    LSI.

    Which makes some sense as to why you would consider Gamma, ISTjs are much more serious and task-oriented, rational even, than the other 3 types in Beta quadra.
    Hmm thanks. What do you call Ji in your interactions with me? Some sort of rigidity in thinking, or what?

    (And yes, I honestly believe I'm in one of the Se/Ni quadras.)


    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    Se/Ni valuing, leaning towards irrational. Your questionnaire does read like SEE but if you don't identify with Ti PoLR, then try SLE, I guess. Or maybe LSI, though that's a rational type. You vibe a bit like another member named @valaki, who I think is ESTP.
    What was SEE-ish in it, can you give me some specifics? And specifically F type over T type?

  5. #25
    Senior Member edchidna1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Hey, have you been busy?

    I'm finding I don't really relate to Ti PoLR. I actually naturally keep checking for consistency in what I say when reasoning about something. The creative Fi, if it means personal relations are manipulated to get things, I don't relate to that either. So SEE would have to be out the window.

    Thing is, function wise, I relate to Beta quadra but not so much to some quadra values. But if I consider Model-A, then Te/Fi valuing is out the window too. I don't relate to a few of the Gamma values either anyway. The quadra values I'm skeptical about anyway, they look like they can be affected by other things, especially by how your life has developed and played out, under what circumstances etc.

    Examining Model-A, I find Fe and Ni are more superid-like. So I would like to further explore LSI or SLE. The problem here is, I can't decide based on Model-A. I could go for either functional structure of SLE or LSI, I relate about equally to both. The same for EP and IJ temperaments too, honestly.

    Any ideas on how to go from here to pick one?

    Of course I'm open to hearing from others even if they have different types for me in mind.

    Thanks
    Very busy! I have lots of stuff going on with the Socionics business I'm setting up and the group I attend to.

    Well, it looks like you've already figured it out! The Se lead is pretty clear and if you identify with Ti/Fe then you're probably SLE.

    You could be LSI if the rights, stucture, duties and correctness take precedence over your desires and impulses. The SLE takes what he wants and uses laws and loopholes to secure his property. The LSI insists on what is justly owed to him and fights tooth and nail to get it.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by edchidna1000 View Post
    Very busy! I have lots of stuff going on with the Socionics business I'm setting up and the group I attend to.
    Where's that btw?


    Well, it looks like you've already figured it out! The Se lead is pretty clear and if you identify with Ti/Fe then you're probably SLE.

    You could be LSI if the rights, stucture, duties and correctness take precedence over your desires and impulses. The SLE takes what he wants and uses laws and loopholes to secure his property. The LSI insists on what is justly owed to him and fights tooth and nail to get it.
    OK what specifically makes Se lead clear to you?

    On that comparison, I don't know yet.

    I can act just on impulse and I rather enjoy that but sometimes impulses are a bit "bound" by ideas of correctness and fairness and certain rules that I make up. This means that I will be controlling my desires and actions according to those. I can enjoy that too but it's different than when going with my impulses. These aren't even ideas I'd have to make up with conscious effort, they just simply automatically work. Like I've always understood them, without verbalizing. And I take them very seriously. It's almost compulsive but it's usually not unenjoyable, no, no, it's fine. So, I enjoy control in general. Enjoy impulsiveness too, though.

    I was talking about my own rules above. There are obviously external rules too, based in society, law or whatever organizations etc, I find them very interesting in an analytical fashion, to understand them and how they make sense, but when they get in my way then I just hate and ignore them or simply don't think to give a shit in the first place. :P

    I'll say that I did originally think of SEE because of how I don't really give a shit about some of these things and I don't even attempt to justify my decision of ignoring them. Simply, I don't need them so I feel like ignoring them, so that's how it is.

    As for duties, eh, that one's pretty clear, I'm not one who cares much about some freudian superego-like notion of "duty". Note I'm definitely an Id type in enneagram, what does LSI look like with all that duties crap when they have Id type in enneagram? And what about when they are a Gut type as well?

  7. #27
    Senior Member edchidna1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Where's that btw?

    OK what specifically makes Se lead clear to you?

    On that comparison, I don't know yet.

    I can act just on impulse and I rather enjoy that but sometimes impulses are a bit "bound" by ideas of correctness and fairness and certain rules that I make up. This means that I will be controlling my desires and actions according to those. I can enjoy that too but it's different than when going with my impulses. These aren't even ideas I'd have to make up with conscious effort, they just simply automatically work. Like I've always understood them, without verbalizing. And I take them very seriously. It's almost compulsive but it's usually not unenjoyable, no, no, it's fine. So, I enjoy control in general. Enjoy impulsiveness too, though.

    I was talking about my own rules above. There are obviously external rules too, based in society, law or whatever organizations etc, I find them very interesting in an analytical fashion, to understand them and how they make sense, but when they get in my way then I just hate and ignore them or simply don't think to give a shit in the first place. :P

    I'll say that I did originally think of SEE because of how I don't really give a shit about some of these things and I don't even attempt to justify my decision of ignoring them. Simply, I don't need them so I feel like ignoring them, so that's how it is.

    As for duties, eh, that one's pretty clear, I'm not one who cares much about some freudian superego-like notion of "duty". Note I'm definitely an Id type in enneagram, what does LSI look like with all that duties crap when they have Id type in enneagram? And what about when they are a Gut type as well?
    The group is here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/worldsocionicssociety

    Exactly! One can see the IJ temperament as being like the Freudian Super-Ego and the EP temperament as the Freudian Id.

    Because of the way you have described yourself, you would be more Freudian Id and thus of the EP temperament, being Se Leading and Ti Creative (SLE) rather than Ti Leading and Se Creative (LSI).

    I haven't actually heard of the Id type in Enneagram. I do know about how the Id is portrayed in Freudian psychoanalysis and one can see it as being very much like the EP temperament. I can't see an LSI being like this.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by edchidna1000 View Post
    The group is here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/worldsocionicssociety

    Exactly! One can see the IJ temperament as being like the Freudian Super-Ego and the EP temperament as the Freudian Id.

    Because of the way you have described yourself, you would be more Freudian Id and thus of the EP temperament, being Se Leading and Ti Creative (SLE) rather than Ti Leading and Se Creative (LSI).

    I haven't actually heard of the Id type in Enneagram. I do know about how the Id is portrayed in Freudian psychoanalysis and one can see it as being very much like the EP temperament. I can't see an LSI being like this.
    Id types in enneagram are 3, 7 and 8.

    But yes, it's kind of a Freudian Id.

    So you're saying it's absolutely not possible to have Ti-leading with an Id-based enneagram type.

    Well thanks for the input anyway


    EDIT: Any thoughts on subtypes? Ti-SLE vs Se-LSI? As relating to what I said above?

  9. #29
    Senior Member edchidna1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Id types in enneagram are 3, 7 and 8.

    But yes, it's kind of a Freudian Id.

    So you're saying it's absolutely not possible to have Ti-leading with an Id-based enneagram type.

    Well thanks for the input anyway


    EDIT: Any thoughts on subtypes? Ti-SLE vs Se-LSI? As relating to what I said above?
    That's interesting, one can usually relate 7 to Socionics Ne Leading and 8 to Socionics Se Leading i.e. the EP types.

    Not quite, I would not say the parameters of Enneagram are clear enough to make such a judgement. When you try to correlate the rules of Socionics with Enneagram you get inconsistencies... For instance, is an Enneagram a collection of strong personality traits or our fears/motivations? They would lead to very different pairings depending. I mention this in the Hangout we had last week:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avxmp8Vb048

    I don't really do subtypes. I think we should first be set on the types before we start splitting things further.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by edchidna1000 View Post
    That's interesting, one can usually relate 7 to Socionics Ne Leading and 8 to Socionics Se Leading i.e. the EP types.

    Not quite, I would not say the parameters of Enneagram are clear enough to make such a judgement. When you try to correlate the rules of Socionics with Enneagram you get inconsistencies... For instance, is an Enneagram a collection of strong personality traits or our fears/motivations? They would lead to very different pairings depending. I mention this in the Hangout we had last week:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avxmp8Vb048

    I don't really do subtypes. I think we should first be set on the types before we start splitting things further.
    Yeah of course there'll be inconsistencies.

    But then it's not defining for my socionics type that I'm an Id type in enneagram.

    I'm going to copypaste from the PoLR thread about how I relate to Ne and Fi and please let me know which one sounds like the PoLR and which one is more like the Role.


    Fi: I usually don't feel anything in a personal way. It's not that I don't know what I feel. Simply there is nothing to know about. No inner feelings. And I'm not interested either in that stuff. When I do feel some emotion, I never try to give it a name or figure out what it means, I just sort of act it out, or express it in whatever other way I can, if nothing else, then by writing or playing out a short story in my head that's all about emotional displays. I actually pretty much *have to* do some sort of expression, and in general I don't have good control over expression of strong emotions. I like strong emotions anyway, I just rarely get them with the exception of anger. Anyway that part is Fe, I'm just showing how it takes priority over Fi.

    As for not feeling anything where I would be expected to, e.g. at most people's death, or anything else really; I don't give a fuck about those societal expectations. I never wondered if this made me a "monster". I'm actually quite comfortable being this way. Anyone who thinks it's bad can just fuck off. I'm rather fine with admitting to myself that I don't feel anything. Thus, I exactly know what I feel: nothing.

    No, I don't say the above to others in such situations, I know it would be offensive. I just manage by simply keeping a blank face and not doing anything or leaving entirely, or perhaps, at best, giving a faint expression of what's expected, some facial expression, e.g. a quick superficial smile. Even then I still don't say anything about personal/inner feelings and I don't express them by action either. Behaving pretty reserved really. It did happen before that I offended others by this kind of behaviour - if I completely didn't attempt to align with expectations -, yes but I didn't give a shit.

    When I'm just asked about how I feel about something, that's simple too, I'll just say "dunno" or shrug or smile or something like that. I don't bother to put in the effort because I know there's nothing. Even if sometimes there happened to be something that I "feel" about whatever thing, it would be something pretty confusing, not an actual emotion either, really just something confusing and so I just ignore it.

    From all the above, it follows that I have trouble feeling much for most relationships. I'm mostly neutral, no like, no dislike. No list of enemies that I'd feel anything about. I behave in the same way with everyone by default. I also can't judge my relationships consistently, without external emotional expression, I usually get on the negative side of things and too quickly assume that they don't like me. The only way to determine other people's stance is by directly asking about it and I will simply do this if I want to know. It also means I don't naturally pay attention to preserving relationships. Uh, okay, all that textbook Fi PoLR stuff about how I just focus on the activities, the fun, etc, not the relationship itself.


    Ne: I relate to senza tema's Ne PoLR a lot. Except it's not about ethics, of course. I don't like too much speculation, too many options, too much randomness and scatteredness, brainstorming, blahblahblah, I get overloaded fast with that stuff. If I tried to analyse it, my head would soon explode. Best to just ignore it. My focus is very deep and intense instead of being scattered going all over the place with ideas anyway.

    I'm rather good at quickly judging what ideas are realistic and which ones are not and the ones that aren't, I couldn't care less about. I'm much more glad to analyse trends instead of unrealistic ideas. To clarify, I don't often look at trends but sometimes I do and like it. And, I will care about only the most likely outcome(s) and ignore the unlikely ones if they're unlikely enough. So, when it's about options on what could possibly be done, I don't like that either, I prefer picking one way and take direct action.

    I hate the idea of combining various bullshit together just to see what happens. I can only logically analyse stuff and determine if there's a connection that way. I have very strict expectations about logical correctness of connections. More than that, I have expectations that it be connected to tangible reality. Not totally theoretical stuff.

    So, yeah, Ne is something that I'm definitely not interested in, and I don't really feel sensitive to criticism about it. I can sometimes think it's great though when ILE's and LII's seem to pick up entire theories in a way that I just don't do. It's not to do with intelligence/IQ whatsoever, I'm perfectly capable of understanding the same stuff, but I process it very differently.

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