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  1. #61
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Why was that your impression? I actually hate the procrastination, I did mention I would like more self-control: "I want less procrastination, I would like to be able to control certain impulses more at will". The desire for certain things however acts against the desire to control impulses. A never-ending fight in this way. Otoh I'm not big on self-criticism so I don't hate myself for it even though I don't happily accept this issue. Did you mean this lack of being hard on myself by positivity?
    Well, then I'm sorry, I must have overread it. Desire for control is mostly either J or/and type 8.
    4w3 - 7w6 - 1w9 : The Idealist

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    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephano View Post
    Well, then I'm sorry, I must have overread it. Desire for control is mostly either J or/and type 8.
    @infinity- , I guess you desire better control of your shadow functions...

    Your "dreams" of material wealth is stemming from your shadow Te-dom...

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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Oh climbing a mountain is good. Btw it's a good example too, the intensity often does come from physical exertion. Either that, or just intense and exclusively focused interest. That's what some people see as me coming on too strong even when I'm not actually attacking anyone.
    Interesting and yea that's a common problem for 8s. They are known as bulls in a china shop.

    Yes I'm familiar with the flow state Flow is about concentration, attention being all "there", no wandering, acting from instinct and implicit/automatic knowledge, with the amount of challenge being just at the right level. You can just about meet the challenge without it being boringly easy.

    Going fast gives a feeling of intensity and it's just great. You have to put in force to get up to speed.
    I know what you mean by just being "there". For me it's like my 7 mind is always racing until that happens then it's like stuff slows down and I'm just there. Would you ever try those wingsuit things?

    Elaborate on the "don't care" thing? Is a 7 willing to easily let go of things? Don't they really want things?
    haha uhhh how do I describe this I pretty much think I'm stuck in like a catatonic state of not caring about stuff a lot of the time. I care about what I care about and not what other people care about. If you watch the honeybadger (7w8 mascot) you will understand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg. It's part of the if you want something just take it mentality. If you insult me I will simply not care and attack you back. I often say I'm all offense and no defense.

    As for letting go of things that's a hard one. For me it depends if I have a deep enough connection and invested enough with something (sx). Some stuff I will never let go of like I still have a best friend that I have known since the 7th grade. For other stuff I'm like a shot of lightning trying something out to see if I like it then I disappear and reappear somewhere else. For stuff I don't have a deep enough connection with it's easy to let go. I joke about how I want all my stuff to be disposable. I want disposable plates, disposable cars, disposable apartments, disposable boats. Owning a boat to me would be a huge pain the ass because of all the maintenance and dragging it around and stuff. I would rather blow it up as revenge for being annoying.

    Although now that I think about it the stuff I do get attached to is hard to let go.

    Hmm well I like having goals myself but it doesn't really come from such experimentation.

    Hey I'll take the 50 thousand dollars :P
    ok its yours just have to eat a thousand beetles

    Yea us 7s are scattered we want to do everything. I'm jealous of people who know exactly what they want to do so easily.


    Lol that stuff is not because of the social standards you referred to. I just liked the idea of having an island to myself, actually owning it. I would have only the things on there that I wanted. And the jet, it's again about owning it, and it'd take me to places fast, wherever I wanted. Tbh though, I don't think about this sort of stuff often, I'm really really no daydreamer. If I actually have the money for it then sure I'll think about it more.

    Yeah the "being something great" part, I didn't pick that because I don't really think about identity questions. I suppose a 4 does that a lot. This personality typing for me is also not easy because of that.

    As for not revealing myself, I don't see it connected to 3 because I don't try to project an image instead. So yeah more like 8.
    Hmm well you should check out the descriptions see what you relate to. I'm interested to know if you're a 874 or a 873. Although I guess that's a touchy area for an 8.

    Lol you're suck a dark 7 :P
    Lol yea I get called an 8 all the time here because I'm not like the ENFP 7s who shoot rainbows out their ass.

    One of the descriptions actually calls me dark.

    748, 784
    The Messenger, the reactive 7
    2x Id, 1x Ego
    Stackings: Sx/Sp, Sx/So, Sp/Sx
    Wings: usually 7w8
    Mistypes:
    Traits: passionate, innovative, flamboyant, original, direct, creative, assertive, moody, spontaneous, intense

    The darkest Sevens, often mistyped. Arrogant, individualistic, very concerned with their independence – want to be free in order to fulfill their visions and dreams. They like to be thought of as original, and can be proud of being misunderstood (but since they're core Sevens, they care much less for their image than Fours do). Might be very inconsiderate and quickly bored with people. I think they don't like descriptions which present 7s as very positive, friendly, happy-go-lucky and gregarious.

    I'm not scared of negative things either but I don't have any obsession of focusing on them. I'm actually fairly positive except that I don't take luck for granted and I tend to see the glass as half empty. I just believe in being alive and I have the confidence that I can do things, now and in future too. And the common cognitive bias as well, along the lines of "nothing truly bad can happen to me". Which is ironic because some truly bad thing already happened to me in life. And then I think I do have a 7-ish rationalization for that: "it happened once so it can't happen again". It's a somewhat cynical rationalization at the same time, heh. If that makes sense.
    Sounds simple enough I guess that must be how 8s think. I hope that truly bad thing wasn't too bad. It sounds ominous and my imagination assumes the worst. I'm not sure if that's 7 rationalization or not I'm only aware of it when I don't care about stuff.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    That site you linked to is pretty interesting about "Somatic patterns".

    It says about 8 that "Their armor shows up as tension or density more or less evenly distributed around the body". That's totally me, it's scarily accurate, ha-ha.

    It says about 7 that they're flexible and loose, are you like that @badger055? It says "They are often quite loose and flexible physically. Instead of muscular tension, their challenge is "being in" their bodies and becoming grounded."
    Haha I'm not exactly sure what that one means about you. But yea mine is accurate I sit around like a jelly fish with no spine.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The difference would be that the Fi lead would conceal information yet be comfortable with it.

    The Fe inferior would be either too lacking in self-awareness or find too much detailed information about themselves to be uncomforting to release.
    A Fi-dom type would be pretty self-aware right? Or not necessarily?

    I relate to Fe-inf here.

    EDIT: In my next post I wrote this:

    "As for knowing what I want to do, I wouldn't be able to explain to you how and why I choose something. (Weak Fi I guess.) I only have the impulse. But yes it's simple easy in that way, there's usually no question about whether I want something or not."

    What do you say, does it sound like weak Fi?


    For another point, I need to learn to trust my instinct more (development of inf. Se, for me), so I say with clarity now that you are most likely Ti-valuing and that Ti is either your dominant or auxiliary function. I'm inclined to put forth ISTP.
    Hmm you categorize trusting instinct as MBTI Se there? Overlap with enneagram, no? Also I thought Jung said instinctual "just knowing" was N?

    The word "valuing" (and "lead") sounds like a socionics term, is that intentional usage?

    In these four questions I've managed to mention all four systems


    Quote Originally Posted by Stephano View Post
    Well, then I'm sorry, I must have overread it. Desire for control is mostly either J or/and type 8.
    No worries heh. Yeah so what does a type 8 who's a P type typically look like, in terms of procrastination issues?

    I can see how J and 8 mesh better together in this area.


    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I guess you desire better control of your shadow functions...

    Your "dreams" of material wealth is stemming from your shadow Te-dom...
    I don't know much about the shadow functions and I prefer to not complicate it. Thanks anyway.


    Ahh and that reminds me. @Mal12345 You never answered here. Got no time still?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    Interesting and yea that's a common problem for 8s. They are known as bulls in a china shop.
    Ha yeah, and that's what I was referring to when I talked about how I'm capable of being either only ON or OFF. The "OFF" means if I wanted to avoid being the "bull in the china shop" phenomenon, I'd only know how to inhibit everything about myself without being refined / selective. I of course can't do that for long, prefer the "ON". It's all or nothing :/ :p


    I know what you mean by just being "there". For me it's like my 7 mind is always racing until that happens then it's like stuff slows down and I'm just there. Would you ever try those wingsuit things?
    Sure yes, I like flying .

    Interesting how you say you have to slow down for the flow. I don't perceive it like that myself. I don't have to slow down for it and perception of time isn't altered this much for me in flow, maybe because feeling some flow actually happens pretty often to me. Just simply calling up all my concentration for something will make me enter a kind of flow state. I said "a kind" because it can be a bit different depending on the task.


    haha uhhh how do I describe this I pretty much think I'm stuck in like a catatonic state of not caring about stuff a lot of the time. I care about what I care about and not what other people care about. If you watch the honeybadger (7w8 mascot) you will understand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg. It's part of the if you want something just take it mentality. If you insult me I will simply not care and attack you back. I often say I'm all offense and no defense.

    As for letting go of things that's a hard one. For me it depends if I have a deep enough connection and invested enough with something (sx). Some stuff I will never let go of like I still have a best friend that I have known since the 7th grade. For other stuff I'm like a shot of lightning trying something out to see if I like it then I disappear and reappear somewhere else. For stuff I don't have a deep enough connection with it's easy to let go. I joke about how I want all my stuff to be disposable. I want disposable plates, disposable cars, disposable apartments, disposable boats. Owning a boat to me would be a huge pain the ass because of all the maintenance and dragging it around and stuff. I would rather blow it up as revenge for being annoying.

    Although now that I think about it the stuff I do get attached to is hard to let go.
    I see. Eh the trying out stuff and then disappearing... I'm different there. I think I mentioned in the initial post that I can be slow really getting into something, I'm not interested until it gets intense enough. That of course means I won't be switching to something else quickly.

    Lol @ the part about blowing the boat up... that sounds really stereotypical 7w8-ish to me :P


    Yea us 7s are scattered we want to do everything. I'm jealous of people who know exactly what they want to do so easily.
    You ever feel satisfaction?

    As for knowing what I want to do, I wouldn't be able to explain to you how and why I choose something. (Weak Fi I guess.) I only have the impulse. But yes it's simple easy in that way, there's usually no question about whether I want something or not. Also sticking to it, keeping focus, that's easy too, because that's how it's satisfying to me. Staying involved with something, getting deep into it and intensely, all that is very satisfying. Consumption of something must be total to feel the real satisfaction.


    Hmm well you should check out the descriptions see what you relate to. I'm interested to know if you're a 874 or a 873. Although I guess that's a touchy area for an 8.
    What exactly is the touchy area here & why?


    One of the descriptions actually calls me dark.

    748, 784
    The Messenger, the reactive 7
    2x Id, 1x Ego
    Stackings: Sx/Sp, Sx/So, Sp/Sx
    Wings: usually 7w8
    Mistypes:
    Traits: passionate, innovative, flamboyant, original, direct, creative, assertive, moody, spontaneous, intense

    The darkest Sevens, often mistyped. Arrogant, individualistic, very concerned with their independence – want to be free in order to fulfill their visions and dreams. They like to be thought of as original, and can be proud of being misunderstood (but since they're core Sevens, they care much less for their image than Fours do). Might be very inconsiderate and quickly bored with people. I think they don't like descriptions which present 7s as very positive, friendly, happy-go-lucky and gregarious.
    I relate to some of this pretty well, being individualistic, independent, I like visions/dreams (though I like acting on them more than imagining them) and originality*. And yeah, the stereotypical sugary positive 7 descriptions are just boring, more precisely, they're too superficial and "light".

    *: As for being thought of as original, well I don't really spend any time thinking about the issue of originality but when asked to think about what I'm like, I readily think of the words "special, unique". In clothing I like more unique stuff though fashionable too. Like, I won't just put on a simple pair of jeans because that's nothing unique at all. Yes my attitude to my looks is probably image based. That's like the only one area where I'm actually able to consciously think and act about such concerns. Do you think what I said here is more 3 or 4?

    Btw I have nothing against the idea of typing as a 3 and I don't necessarily want to be a 4 but I will be honest and say that the stereotype of 3 is pretty distasteful to me. I want to point out that I know that that's obviously just a stereotype. All that superficial and smooth adjusting to others' expectations to be admired, I really don't relate. Sounds like giving up my own desires and tendencies, impulses, opinions, everything. Maybe for actual 3's it isn't as extreme as the stereotype but this is how it comes off to me. Otoh, what is very nice about 3 is of course the ability to do things, achieve goals. Just this part about needing validation from others is what is no good to me.


    Sounds simple enough I guess that must be how 8s think. I hope that truly bad thing wasn't too bad. It sounds ominous and my imagination assumes the worst. I'm not sure if that's 7 rationalization or not I'm only aware of it when I don't care about stuff.
    Thanks but it was really bad, probably traumatic too, I just don't remember as I was very young. The rationalization I quoted, it's half in jest really. I don't actually believe in it because it's the luck category. But if going by probabilities, then yes it's probably true that nothing similarly bad will happen, for a while anyway. I call myself as an optimistic realist overall.

    So about my tritype, I agree that gut and head fixes are def 7 and 8, just the image fix is unclear atm.


    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    Haha I'm not exactly sure what that one means about you. But yea mine is accurate I sit around like a jelly fish with no spine.
    What was not clear about it? I can try explaining.

    The jelly fish thing for you, is it still a highly stimulated state (mentally I suppose), or a low energy lazy one?

  7. #67
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    @infinity-

    Fi would allow a higher degree of self-awareness.

    The impulse sounds like Se.

    As for the instinct bit, Se manifests itself in INxJs as an unconscious process that isn't always trusted, though it is very useful. Specifically, it unconsciously picks up on details that aren't always known to the awake mind and creates a bias or a pull to something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Ha yeah, and that's what I was referring to when I talked about how I'm capable of being either only ON or OFF. The "OFF" means if I wanted to avoid being the "bull in the china shop" phenomenon, I'd only know how to inhibit everything about myself without being refined / selective. I of course can't do that for long, prefer the "ON". It's all or nothing :/ :p
    Well just be on all the time then and screw everyone else. People might start to see it as a lovable quirk instead of being a monster. And if you're on all the time your behaviour will probably auto adjust somewhat on it's own.

    You ever feel satisfaction?
    Yea usually after I had some crazy experience or I conquered something. Watching a good movie or a playing a good game can be really thrilling to me since I'm a 4 fix and I want some sort of dramatic element to my life. The world in movies and games is sort of how I want my life to be. I'm always looking for things that are just outrageous and out of this world crazy.

    As for knowing what I want to do, I wouldn't be able to explain to you how and why I choose something. (Weak Fi I guess.) I only have the impulse. But yes it's simple easy in that way, there's usually no question about whether I want something or not. Also sticking to it, keeping focus, that's easy too, because that's how it's satisfying to me. Staying involved with something, getting deep into it and intensely, all that is very satisfying. Consumption of something must be total to feel the real satisfaction.
    I see in comparison I'm a lot more fickle. It's not as easy for me to put my focus on something like that. There has to be a lot of convincing and negotiating with myself for why this thing deserves my attention but once I'm into it then I get the tunnel vision.

    What exactly is the touchy area here & why?
    Well we are talking about the feeling types now and you sounded like you don't like talking about that stuff but I guess not haha.

    I relate to some of this pretty well, being individualistic, independent, I like visions/dreams (though I like acting on them more than imagining them) and originality*. And yeah, the stereotypical sugary positive 7 descriptions are just boring, more precisely, they're too superficial and "light".

    *: As for being thought of as original, well I don't really spend any time thinking about the issue of originality but when asked to think about what I'm like, I readily think of the words "special, unique". In clothing I like more unique stuff though fashionable too. Like, I won't just put on a simple pair of jeans because that's nothing unique at all. Yes my attitude to my looks is probably image based. That's like the only one area where I'm actually able to consciously think and act about such concerns. Do you think what I said here is more 3 or 4?

    Btw I have nothing against the idea of typing as a 3 and I don't necessarily want to be a 4 but I will be honest and say that the stereotype of 3 is pretty distasteful to me. I want to point out that I know that that's obviously just a stereotype. All that superficial and smooth adjusting to others' expectations to be admired, I really don't relate. Sounds like giving up my own desires and tendencies, impulses, opinions, everything. Maybe for actual 3's it isn't as extreme as the stereotype but this is how it comes off to me. Otoh, what is very nice about 3 is of course the ability to do things, achieve goals. Just this part about needing validation from others is what is no good to me.
    Yes I would say you're a 4 fix now. The repulsive reaction you had when I said you were a 3 fix is good enough evidence for me lol. Do you relate to the tritype name the messenger? It took me awhile to figure out how that was actually related to me. For me it's like a strong feeling sometimes to just say the truth of things that other people aren't seeing.


    Thanks but it was really bad, probably traumatic too, I just don't remember as I was very young. The rationalization I quoted, it's half in jest really. I don't actually believe in it because it's the luck category. But if going by probabilities, then yes it's probably true that nothing similarly bad will happen, for a while anyway. I call myself as an optimistic realist overall.
    I see well try not to let it keep you down. I went through a lot of stuff too that would of scarred other people but I made a concious choice to not let it affect me. I only look to the future and I don't care about the past. I'm not really an optimist or scared of bad things happening. I guess it helps that I have a tinge of evil in me and I feel like people should be scared of me instead of the other way around haha.

    Oh right and there is thing about 8s you should probably know. Usually an 8 gets bullied or something in their childhood and they hate being powerless so much that they vow to never let it happen again. So they might do stuff like train martial arts. I don't know if that's related to your thing.

    What was not clear about it? I can try explaining.

    The jelly fish thing for you, is it still a highly stimulated state (mentally I suppose), or a low energy lazy one?
    You have armor? I guess my body is in a low energy lazy state but my mind is still always wanting to be stimulated with something. I also relate to where it says I need to be in my body more. I go to the gym regularly and it makes a big difference for how I feel.

  9. #69
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    I'm curious also what @simulatedworld would say about my type
    You should try to answer some questions of this nature:

    1) What is your biggest goal in life?

    2) What do you feel you tend to understand better than others do?

    3) What do you feel others tend to understand better than you do?

    4) What kind(s) of people make you most comfortable? Why?

    5) What kind(s) of people make you most uncomfortable? Why?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    @infinity-

    Fi would allow a higher degree of self-awareness.

    The impulse sounds like Se.

    As for the instinct bit, Se manifests itself in INxJs as an unconscious process that isn't always trusted, though it is very useful. Specifically, it unconsciously picks up on details that aren't always known to the awake mind and creates a bias or a pull to something.
    OK I see. I actually have the picking up of unconscious details myself in certain cases.

    Example, I find my way around places by mainly unconscious spatial details. They can be made more conscious if I focus on them but by default I don't bother heh as it works fine this way. What my consciousness has by default is an "abstract impressionist" style picture. I picked up this expression from some Dario Nardi ppt. In this research, for example ESxP's and ENxP's had it. (Can't recall other types now, I will have to look.) Mine's probably more "filtered" than an ESxP's, though.

    Another example would be to do with operating the GUI of whatever computer program, there's certain programs that I've used many times and after a while I notice that I just know things like when the program is busy, without having to actually click to see it's not ready yet. And no it doesn't put up a messagebox or anything to tell me to wait. I'm sure I could figure out what unconscious detail lets me know but it's not easy to catch it.

    There's some cases where unconscious cues let me know in advance what will happen. Now don't think of it as me conjuring up some prophecy, it's to do with much more tangible things and it's predicted only like a few seconds ahead. It's obviously directly sensed, just not fully consciously.

    There's other cases where the cues are much closer to the conscious surface though.. actually fully conscious sometimes. I don't know what this depends on.

    Sounds like I trust some of these things more than you do. There's stuff that I don't trust myself, but I haven't tried to categorize yet what kind of stuff that is. Though I noticed it's often to do with what internal feeling state other people have. I can sometimes get a feeling about that sort of thing about people but I don't trust it much.. I tend to just go and directly ask them.

    In what kind of situations do you have those bias/pull thingies and are they reliable?


    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    Well just be on all the time then and screw everyone else. People might start to see it as a lovable quirk instead of being a monster. And if you're on all the time your behaviour will probably auto adjust somewhat on it's own.
    Is that 7 optimism now? :P


    Yea usually after I had some crazy experience or I conquered something. Watching a good movie or a playing a good game can be really thrilling to me since I'm a 4 fix and I want some sort of dramatic element to my life. The world in movies and games is sort of how I want my life to be. I'm always looking for things that are just outrageous and out of this world crazy.
    I like good movies too, when I watch a really good one in a cinema (not just at home sitting at the PC/laptop, that's different), for a few minutes afterwards I feel like I'm living a movie myself. But I think you're probably more dramatic than me or more often. I'm sometimes in that kind of mood but not that often, I can't say it defines me terribly much. For some reason I wouldn't mind if it did have more influence in my life Always liked that about type 4. I think it's the intensity of the emotions that I like. Do you care about that?


    I see in comparison I'm a lot more fickle. It's not as easy for me to put my focus on something like that. There has to be a lot of convincing and negotiating with myself for why this thing deserves my attention but once I'm into it then I get the tunnel vision.
    That's a head type thingie right? That mental negotiating stuff.


    Well we are talking about the feeling types now and you sounded like you don't like talking about that stuff but I guess not haha.
    About feelings? No not too much..


    Yes I would say you're a 4 fix now. The repulsive reaction you had when I said you were a 3 fix is good enough evidence for me lol. Do you relate to the tritype name the messenger? It took me awhile to figure out how that was actually related to me. For me it's like a strong feeling sometimes to just say the truth of things that other people aren't seeing.
    The "repulsive reaction" was to that stereotypical 3 attitude in general, but yeah I see what you mean :P

    No I didn't really understand what "messenger" is supposed to mean. Truth of things? Well depends what kind of things. It's usually technical impersonal stuff that I like to state truths about. Not about people stuff. Well unless it's about the mind's workings but that's in an impersonal fashion again. But yes I can really become a sort of truth teller with that. So what's this messenger thing? Does this sort of truth telling fit in with that?


    I see well try not to let it keep you down.
    Lol you're really a 7 I see

    Don't worry about me though, I'm good at denying crap. I'm not a type who gets depressed much. I'm really extremely good at denying that this would have any influence on me. It might actually, I just don't want to see it.


    I went through a lot of stuff too that would of scarred other people but I made a concious choice to not let it affect me. I only look to the future and I don't care about the past.
    Yeah of course I went through shit too, mostly with people, I was talking about something else above. But this other shit in life, I also tend to deny the idea that it may have had any effect on me. :P Not a conscious choice as in your case, more automatic. It took me a while to see that I react like this..

    I'm like you in that I don't brood over the past much. I live in the present mostly with a little future orientation.


    Oh right and there is thing about 8s you should probably know. Usually an 8 gets bullied or something in their childhood and they hate being powerless so much that they vow to never let it happen again. So they might do stuff like train martial arts. I don't know if that's related to your thing.
    There was bullying sure but I didn't mean that above. I did hate being a powerless kid, though. Martial arts, hmm, no I didn't get into that but maybe I'll try it out one day.


    You have armor? I guess my body is in a low energy lazy state but my mind is still always wanting to be stimulated with something. I also relate to where it says I need to be in my body more. I go to the gym regularly and it makes a big difference for how I feel.
    Armor, heh, sure, in terms of muscle tension, being ready to go at and also against things. The site also mentions "high level of bioenergetic charge in body", I think that's related a bit.

    What does the gym do for you? You feel more physical after a workout?

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    Last Post: 07-03-2009, 10:08 AM

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