Could my gut fix be 8 instead of 9?

[The Great One]

[MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION]

9s can get angry

What's your point?

 

[HongDou]

What's your point?

That 9w1s don't always diplomatically handle the situation and they can get angry as well. Maybe it's more rare than 9w8s, I'm just saying both would probably get angry out of nowhere and people would not expect it at all.

 

[Elfboy]

Anxious jittery sounds like entps who are w6s and e6s.

which is most of them (ENTP 5s are also like this)

Edit - would you say enfps are gentle? I don't think so

most of us are gentle most of the time, but mess with an ENFP's friends or values and we'll unleash a storm on your ass.
there are some exceptions though. ENFP 1s and 7w8s are less gentle than normal

 

[five sounds]

That 9w1s don't always diplomatically handle the situation and they can get angry as well. Maybe it's more rare than 9w8s, I'm just saying both would probably get angry out of nowhere and people would not expect it at all.

^tru.

I'm a 9w1, but I really don't have a problem going into conflict if I feel it's necessary. It still messes with my internal peace, I'm not at ease when I'm in conflict, and if it can't be resolved in a timely fashion I'm gonna get outta there because I really can't stand being in that state for too long.

But I can stand up to, and even initiate conflict if it's something I believe in. Good things don't come easy, and sometimes you gotta fight. It's an Fi thing for me for sure. It can seemingly come out of nowhere to someone who doesn't know me well enough to know what issues 'get me'. But I can be fierce when I need to be. The thing is, "conflict" to me isn't only in the external realm. Inner peace is most important to me. So if I'm internally not at peace, I will gladly cause some temporary unrest in the external world if that's necessary to resolve my inner conflict.

 

[Azure Flame]

a lot of 9w8s Ive met are fuggin ass holes for what feels like no reason.

At least Im crystal clear why I think someone is a dumbass.

 

[brainheart]

There is no doubt in my mind that I am a 7 with an 8 fix...a 74 <-not 2...a 748...and cp to boot if you want to throw that in...and an sx dom...and while 'rough-around-the-edges' could replace my actual middle name...ruthless? acquisitive? Ah no. I'm not even competitive Elfboy...I have poured so many hours of thought into how much more successful I would be in the Western economy if I could just get myself to care a little more about money or winning or prestige...it's all bullshit to me. I can get aggressive about a principle or cause...and if you approach me and mine in a way I don't like...I will make sure that never happens again...but on the daily I'm your average, happy, going-nowhere haha ENFP 7w6.

I think this is about the best point that can be made about tritype. First and foremost you are your core type, and if you are using tritype to explain why you don't totally fit your core type, then you probably have your core type wrong. The subsequent fixes are going to behave differently than if they were a core type because they are filtered through the core. It's like the difference between sprinkling some pepper on your meal or chewing a peppercorn whole.

I also think the second type in line of the tritype is going to be way more obvious than the third- kind of like instinct stackings- so the third type is the one you are most out of touch with. It kind of behaves like a blindspot. In other words, it's pretty hard to figure it out, but once you get it, it's a total aha moment.

 

[five sounds]

I think this is about the best point that can be made about tritype. First and foremost you are your core type, and if you are using tritype to explain why you don't totally fit your core type, then you probably have your core type wrong. The subsequent fixes are going to behave differently than if they were a core type because they are filtered through the core. It's like the difference between sprinkling some pepper on your meal or chewing a peppercorn whole.

I also think the second type in line of the tritype is going to be way more obvious than the third- kind of like instinct stackings- so the third type is the one you are most out of touch with. It kind of behaves like a blindspot. In other words, it's pretty hard to figure it out, but once you get it, it's a total aha moment.

yes yes yes. i like the way you talked about it like a blindspot. like this unconscious force working within you that normally just plain ol' doesn't come up. i had a hard time identifying as a 2-fix for that very reason. i was reading core 2 descriptions and thinking 'that's not me at all!' then reading a core 4 description sounded much closer to me (as a sx/sp 7) than 2 ever did. so yeah, it's easy to try to fit your core fix into the subsequent ones, and that can absolutely be misleading. just a really good point, that i think gets overlooked a lot.

also, i can't stress enough the importance of instinctual variant when thinking about enneatypes. it really makes a huge difference, i've learned. sx is going to intensify any type, make it seem more aggressive, and 'darker'. another reason i thought 4 for myself, actually.

 

[brainheart]

yes yes yes. i like the way you talked about it like a blindspot. like this unconscious force working within you that normally just plain ol' doesn't come up. i had a hard time identifying as a 2-fix for that very reason. i was reading core 2 descriptions and thinking 'that's not me at all!' then reading a core 4 description sounded much closer to me (as a sx/sp 7) than 2 ever did. so yeah, it's easy to try to fit your core fix into the subsequent ones, and that can absolutely be misleading. just a really good point, that i think gets overlooked a lot.

also, i can't stress enough the importance of instinctual variant when thinking about enneatypes. it really makes a huge difference, i've learned. sx is going to intensify any type, make it seem more aggressive, and 'darker'. another reason i thought 4 for myself, actually.

Glad you agree

Instinctual variant is huge too, I absolutely agree. But I also was just telling [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] that I think stacking is just as big. For example, sx/so and sx/sp are really different. They give off a very different energy and seem to be motivated in quite different ways.

 

[five sounds]

Instinctual variant is huge too, I absolutely agree. But I also was just telling [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] that I think stacking is just as big. For example, sx/so and sx/sp are really different. They give off a very different energy and seem to be motivated in quite different ways.

oh totally. i actually was going to mention that, but i felt like i was diverging enough by addressing variant. yes, and even among people of the same stacking, the relative strength of the two can present differently. my sp is pretty weak, so there are other sx/sps who have a much different energy since it's more balanced.

 

[HongDou]

^ all good points above, which now has me leaning more towards 729 than 728 as 7s exhibit a lot of naturally assertive qualities that might overshadow a 9 fix. I'd make another video, but I'll be damned if the three strikes you're out rule comes to bite me in the ass.

I'm still not sure whether I'd be 9w1 or 9w8 though. In my sig I think it says 9w8(sw8w7) just because I'm still oscillating between 9 and 8, but I liked how 9w1(sw8w9) looked too. Ignore the subwing stuff though as a lot of people don't buy into it, but basically I'm saying I'm between 9w1 and 9w8 still.

I know some of you have probably seen this video before in the thread where universally everyone agreed I was ENFP, but here it is again for those who have not seen it and can't weigh in without knowing me more personally like [MENTION=7140]brainheart[/MENTION]:

 

[HongDou]

Also, I think 729 makes more sense for me given how spiritually connected I am to this video:

 

[brainheart]

Oh my God [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION], could you be any cuter? Seriously, is it possible for a human being to be cuter than you?

That said... you seem 729 over 728... but I don't really know. I'll think about it. (And I only watched part of the video. 24 minutes is a lot of watching for me, sorry.)

 

[brainheart]

Oh, one thing I wanted to say. I think most EXFP so/sx types seem more 9-ish than they necessarily are. I'm married to an ESFP so/sx and I thought he had a 9 gut but the more I considered he for sure has a 1 gut. EXFP so/sx is such a fun, open, agreeable type it can be misleading.

So here I am, confusing you

I think with a 1 fix you will see a lot of guilt, concern that they are a bad person or could become a bad person. They will use the words good/bad, right/wrong when upset or provoked. They can be angry when they do it, but they will use words like that. They will also feel a lot of 'shoulds' about things, like I should be a better person, I should be doing this and since I'm not I am a bad person. One fixers really work at being better people.

9 fix... I don't know. (I'm confused by nine. Nine just seems like such a foreign thing to me.)

8 fix, it's more about stepping on the person's toes. If they feel challenged or controlled or like you are challenging or controlling their people they will get angry. It's an explosion of energy and it feels more like 'I swear I will kill you if you mess with me or with that person.' It's not about right/wrong. It feels totally irrational and there is no controlling it. Eight fixers want to deal with things right the hell now, not when they've waited to cool off or whatever. NOW.

 

[Starry]

7s exhibit a lot of naturally assertive qualities that might overshadow a 9 fix.

as·ser·tive
əˈsərtiv

adjective
1. having or showing a confident and forceful personality.

Chanaynay...sigh. I've tried to sit and create responses to the various messages that I've been called to/quoted in this thread...but I can't (although I did have a thoughtful response to [MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION] beautifully expressed description of her experience as a peacemaker...and lost it - so pissed.)

I'm so blown away by...not just Elfboy's descriptions but pretty much everyone's for 2 reasons: 1.) how limited the range of behaviors seem to be for each type being discussed. And 2.) how it almost seems people are expecting each type to express itself in equal strength whether it be a core, wing or fix. This is all rather unthinkable to me but I have no problems imagining that I'm wrong in this regard so I'm now asking you to teach me...

Starting here: I've seen mentioned throughout this thread over and over just how assertive the e7 type is...and so what I'm now looking for from you is a 7 description that still makes use of the word assertive once 'wing 8' has been removed from the mix. While the 7w6 may be an optimist and forward-moving...none of that adds up to the authentic assertiveness of the 7w8. In fact, that 6 wing, from everything I've ever read, heralds in a good deal of anxiousness and paranioa and second-guessing...none of which are conducive to confidence and force. I have never understood the 7w6 as assertive on its own so I need you to tell me where I've gone wrong...

 

[The Great One]

That 9w1s don't always diplomatically handle the situation and they can get angry as well. Maybe it's more rare than 9w8s, I'm just saying both would probably get angry out of nowhere and people would not expect it at all.

If you push the 9w1 too far, then yes, they may explode. However, this is not common for them. The 9w8 is known for exploding out of nowhere though.

 

[HongDou]

Oh, one thing I wanted to say. I think most EXFP so/sx types seem more 9-ish than they necessarily are. I'm married to an ESFP so/sx and I thought he had a 9 gut but the more I considered he for sure has a 1 gut. EXFP so/sx is such a fun, open, agreeable type it can be misleading.

So here I am, confusing you

No, this isn't confusing at all! Your experience with your EFP so/sx hubby definitely provides a lot of insight. I agree with you (and I'm sure [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] has been mentioning it too) that a type like this is probably so open and agreeable, especially when my other fixes are positive outlook types, that it might make someone like they have a 9-fix when on a more personal level the general fear and motivation is 1 or 8. Plus what Nic was saying earlier made a lot of sense for the differences between us.

I think with a 1 fix you will see a lot of guilt, concern that they are a bad person or could become a bad person. They will use the words good/bad, right/wrong when upset or provoked. They can be angry when they do it, but they will use words like that. They will also feel a lot of 'shoulds' about things, like I should be a better person, I should be doing this and since I'm not I am a bad person. One fixers really work at being better people.

Haha yeah...you won't get this from me. I certainly admire people like this though, always trying to better themselves.

8 fix, it's more about stepping on the person's toes. If they feel challenged or controlled or like you are challenging or controlling their people they will get angry. It's an explosion of energy and it feels more like 'I swear I will kill you if you mess with me or with that person.' It's not about right/wrong. It feels totally irrational and there is no controlling it. Eight fixers want to deal with things right the hell now, not when they've waited to cool off or whatever. NOW.

Hmm, in a 728 fixer though? And so/sx. I am definitely protective over my sense of autonomy and my people and it's definitely a lot less rational. But I'm not as explosive as that for sure. I do want to deal with things as they come (minus things like you know...work and obligations, an E7's nightmare), but I also think about the future and how to cover for that as well while dealing with it immediately. That sounds more like 6 influence to me though.

I'm so blown away by...not just Elfboy's descriptions but pretty much everyone's for 2 reasons: 1.) how limited the range of behaviors seem to be for each type being discussed. And 2.) how it almost seems people are expecting each type to express itself in equal strength whether it be a core, wing or fix. This is all rather unthinkable to me but I have no problems imagining that I'm wrong in this regard so I'm now asking you to teach me...

These are both true. Especially since my gut fix is the least apparent in general, I'd expect in another universe where I would be the other fix I'm not here there wouldn't be much of a difference if that makes sense. I feel like people put too much weight into tritype. I remember Elfboy linked me a video of 729 which was all rainbows, sunshines, and unicorns and then the 728 video suddenly turned into these gangsters getting women and talking about their money and throwing around guns and stuff. I mean 9 and 8 are different types but that difference is just...way too different to be explained by only one fix haha unless it was core 9 vs a core 8.

Starting here: I've seen mentioned throughout this thread over and over just how assertive the e7 type is...and so what I'm now looking for from you is a 7 description that still makes use of the word assertive once 'wing 8' has been removed from the mix. While the 7w6 may be an optimist and forward-moving...none of that adds up to the authentic assertiveness of the 7w8. In fact, that 6 wing, from everything I've ever read, heralds in a good deal of anxiousness and paranioa and second-guessing...none of which are conducive to confidence and force. I have never understood the 7w6 as assertive on its own so I need you to tell me where I've gone wrong...

I think you're totally right here. Once again, now you're pushing me towards 8. Starry, your intelligence is too much to handle! I'm wavering back and forth as the replies come. I think core 7s are generally upfront about what they want (hence, they're in the assertive triad), but I think you're right in saying that the 6 wing (especially for me since my 6 wing tends to go more phobic than counterphobic) adds a sense of insecurity, second-guessing, hesitation, etc. I think these triads are also taken a bit too seriously when really they're more just observed patterns, and wings can also factor into the equation and throw things off. 6 wing also adds more of a need to know where they stand with people, preserving their sense of security with others, so me being "pretty dominant" as you described might better be explained by an 8 fix than being E7.

Sorry for the late reply btw.

Also I decided that if I'm an 8-fixer, 8w7 is the way to go.

Although now my thoughts are pushing me back towards 9w1. Ahh, this is such a decision. Not gonna change who I am either way, but this is hard because my gut seems so hidden from me!

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION]
do you relate to even a drop of this?
http://personalitycafe.com/type-8-f...ranjos-character-neurosis-type-8-chapter.html

 

[HongDou]

[MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION]
do you relate to even a drop of this?
http://personalitycafe.com/type-8-f...ranjos-character-neurosis-type-8-chapter.html

Do you expect an E7 to look at how many words that is and actually read skim it?

 

[Elfboy]

Do you expect an E7 to look at how many words that is and actually read skim it?

if you want to develop a thorough understanding of the Enneagram, then yes, I do. to make it easier though, I recommend skipping to the "trait structure" section (I believe it's section 3)

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

Do you expect an E7 to look at how many words that is and actually read skim it?

That's something an ESFP would say!