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  1. #1
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Default Type 4 SX - Questioning Wing and Other Variants

    I'm as certain as I could be of my e-type (4) and first variant (Sx) and MBTI (ENFP, slight chance of INFP)

    But I keep going back and forth on wings and second variant.
    I am better known on the other forum but I want a fresh, more objective view. My understanding of myself is much deeper now than it was before, along with my willingness to talk about it. Because I am a trauma survivor some of my innards were skewed, and now I have worked out things and I feel I can self-report or at least self-search more objectively & honestly, and get to the bottom of things in a deeper way. I've also been studying enneagram, all the authors/deeply etc for a few years now.

    I'm not concerned with tritype. I spent a lot of time figuring out my tritype only to decide it's a bit extraneous, at least at this juncture. If it must come up I currently type as 4-7w6-1w9, but the more deeply I study enneagram and what type 4 means for me, the more extraneous it seems.

    4w3 or 4w5?

    Sx/So or Sx/Sp?

    What are the real differences or questions I should be asking myself?
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  2. #2
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    I'm as certain as I could be of my e-type (4) and first variant (Sx) and MBTI (ENFP, slight chance of INFP)

    But I keep going back and forth on wings and second variant.
    I am better known on the other forum but I want a fresh, more objective view. My understanding of myself is much deeper now than it was before, along with my willingness to talk about it. Because I am a trauma survivor some of my innards were skewed, and now I have worked out things and I feel I can self-report or at least self-search more objectively & honestly, and get to the bottom of things in a deeper way. I've also been studying enneagram, all the authors/deeply etc for a few years now.

    I'm not concerned with tritype. I spent a lot of time figuring out my tritype only to decide it's a bit extraneous, at least at this juncture. If it must come up I currently type as 4-7w6-1w9, but the more deeply I study enneagram and what type 4 means for me, the more extraneous it seems.

    4w3 or 4w5?

    Sx/So or Sx/Sp?

    What are the real differences or questions I should be asking myself?
    @Animal --
    About the 4w3 or 4w5 -- I hate to say it, but you know, from prior conversations we've had, I peg you as split wings -- with whichever wing is dominant depending on both your life's ups-and-downs o'er the past week, *and* whom your're dealing with at the moment: your power and drive and showman(show-woman?)ship just *scream* 3, but your quest for knowledge brands you a 5.

    About the Sx/So vs. Sx/Sp? I read somewhere that the second function is the one you do effortlessly, and the one which you express / exhibit when you are on the prowl to fulfill the needs of your primary function. I have found this trait to be the case in my own life. Ergo -- when you find a new would-be flame, do you go the find their social circles / draw them into your circles, or do you seek to flood them with safety, physical security, and sustenance? (Recall that this will likely happen during the first *trying to reel you in* mode, and NOT necessarily after a rudimentary "we're an item" relationship has been established...)

    Thus spake the confused, preoccupied INTJ. Error bar estimates available upon request.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  3. #3
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    @Animal --
    About the 4w3 or 4w5 -- I hate to say it, but you know, from prior conversations we've had, I peg you as split wings -- with whichever wing is dominant depending on both your life's ups-and-downs o'er the past week, *and* whom your're dealing with at the moment: your power and drive and showman(show-woman?)ship just *scream* 3, but your quest for knowledge brands you a 5.
    Exactly!!! Show-woman, btw.

    I definitely have both sides. It does seem like an actual case of balanced wings. I am not "making my cases" here because I'm curious for feedback as is, but you hit the nail on the head regarding my vibe, or at least how I understand from others that I vibe, or what I can pick up from looking at my posts objectively in retrospect? Etc.

    About the Sx/So vs. Sx/Sp? I read somewhere that the second function is the one you do effortlessly, and the one which you express / exhibit when you are on the prowl to fulfill the needs of your primary function. I have found this trait to be the case in my own life. Ergo -- when you find a new would-be flame, do you go the find their social circles / draw them into your circles, or do you seek to flood them with safety, physical security, and sustenance? (Recall that this will likely happen during the first *trying to reel you in* mode, and NOT necessarily after a rudimentary "we're an item" relationship has been established…)
    Hmmm, that is a VERY intelligent distinction you just made. I've never heard it phrased quite that way before.

    Although there is also an identity issue here. My issue with offering security is that I am a tornado, not a wife. My compulsion is to believe that men love me for my excitement, inspiration; for being creative. I stand out from the others that way. I can never be the most stable, the most secure, the most rich, the most pretty. Nor am I meant to be - such traits would be dishonest, wouldn't be who I really am. So I end up distinguishing myself and expressing myself compulsively through my mind & creativity. My objectivity, my intellect, my show-womanship; any angle you choose; but I am not in a category with 'barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.' To be quite honest, this degrading of myself from wife status to muse status has ended up shaping my life, and even serving as a trap. I stand out, I am worshipped, admired; I am everyone's muse and fantasy, but nobody's wife. So it shot me in the ass, naturally, when I fall in love and this is the outcome. I'm growing out of many problems and false self-views through enneagram and other methods of self-awareness, like losing out BIG TIME, which forces either self awareness and growth, or repetition of the same mistakes…


    Anyhow, all that being said, I'd sooner navigate a social situation and introduce him to my friends etc, than think about offering security. I know my friends are an asset, and I'm not saying that they are 'bargaining pieces' by any means - I actually love introducing incredible people to other incredible people. So few are from my planet and when I meet those who are from my planet, I do love to unite them.

    However, socially , my connections are one-on-one. I do not join groups. I am a loner or a leader, period. I've never been any other way. If I'm a leader, I'm still 'outsider.' My SX target/ crush/ man is the one person who can lead or lone beside me.

    Thus spake the confused, preoccupied INTJ. Error bar estimates available upon request.
    Hehe, actually, it was helpful.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  4. #4
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    I stand out, I am worshipped, admired; I am everyone's muse and fantasy, but nobody's wife.
    sx/so.

    Between 4w3 and 4w5, my vote is for 4w3.

  5. #5
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    sx/so.

    Between 4w3 and 4w5, my vote is for 4w3.
    Thanks for the vote =)

    Feel free to elaborate if you want? Or not.

    I am leaning heavily toward Sx/So.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  6. #6
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    I think 4w3 are much more divided inside, because 4 and 3 are very contrasting in a lot of ways: I suck/I'm the best, withdrawn/flamboyant, emotional/almost frosty, stuck in the past/thinking about future goals, easily discouraged/indomitable. Also 4's don't like the rat race, while 3's are all about winning it. 4w3's are definitely more common among ENFP's.

  7. #7
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    I think 4w3 are much more divided inside, because 4 and 3 are very contrasting in a lot of ways: I suck/I'm the best, withdrawn/flamboyant, emotional/almost frosty, stuck in the past/thinking about future goals, easily discouraged/indomitable. Also 4's don't like the rat race, while 3's are all about winning it. 4w3's are definitely more common among ENFP's.
    Interestingly, the specific contrasts you chose, would all apply to me.

    I don't like the rat race at all, nor do I participate. Though when I moved to the city on my own to front my band, I took major control of my life and I was renting rooms to others and leading a band - it became known, soon enough, that I was not someone to be fucked with. I had a dream, a vision, and nothing was going to stop me. But I played the game my own way. I had rooms built the way I want in my loft, I had my band the way I want, I lead everything the way I want, laid out my intentions and held other people to their side. It was tougher than it might sound - it would be hard to explain to anyone who hasn't lived in NYC and ALSO has not had a chronic illness and no money to live in a nice part of the city. I also speak in a whisper, and that makes my life difficult - I can't be heard on the phone, people think they can walk on me, I can't have conversations in loud areas (which is basically the whole city) etc. Still when I had a powerful dream and vision of my own, my original vision which I arranged, produced, wrote, fronted and controlled, I marched into the middle of a cesspit fearlessly to do what I had to. Outside of that I'm mostly as isolated as I can possibly manage. And I prefer being in nature and hate cities. Even when I lived in the city I was there for the sake of music and my dream; I did not socialize much outside of band/roommates/close friends, and even that was minimial. I do socialize when I have people I'm close to but I need an inordinate amount of time to myself.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  8. #8
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    Interestingly, the specific contrasts you chose, would all apply to me.

    I don't like the rat race at all, nor do I participate. Though when I moved to the city on my own to front my band, I took major control of my life and I was renting rooms to others and leading a band - it became known, soon enough, that I was not someone to be fucked with. I had a dream, a vision, and nothing was going to stop me. But I played the game my own way. I had rooms built the way I want in my loft, I had my band the way I want, I lead everything the way I want, laid out my intentions and held other people to their side. It was tougher than it might sound - it would be hard to explain to anyone who hasn't lived in NYC and ALSO has not had a chronic illness and no money to live in a nice part of the city. I also speak in a whisper, and that makes my life difficult - I can't be heard on the phone, people think they can walk on me, I can't have conversations in loud areas (which is basically the whole city) etc. Still when I had a powerful dream and vision of my own, my original vision which I arranged, produced, wrote, fronted and controlled, I marched into the middle of a cesspit fearlessly to do what I had to. Outside of that I'm mostly as isolated as I can possibly manage. And I prefer being in nature and hate cities. Even when I lived in the city I was there for the sake of music and my dream; I did not socialize much outside of band/roommates/close friends, and even that was minimial. I do socialize when I have people I'm close to but I need an inordinate amount of time to myself.
    Yeah you sound really 4w3, and also like you're on quite the journey!

  9. #9
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Yeah you sound really 4w3, and also like you're on quite the journey!
    Thanks for that, and for the input.

    I've always typed at 4w3 or 4w3 fix in the past when my core was mistyped. (Well, except for the month when I mistyped at 3w4, lol.) However - those who know me best from Personalitycafe, and those in my real life, often come to type me at 4w5, for various reasons. The inordinate amount of time I spend alone and not caring about fitting in is part of it. But it's more than that..

    My energy is very 4w3, and outward description 4w3. So, most likely I am a 4w3. But some of the 5 stuff runs very deep with me - fear of being useless, not being able to jump into something until I've gathered knowledge, thinking about love instead of actually loving.. etc. It was enough that I mistyped at 5w4 for many years, and not for stupid reasons. Since I decided I wasn't a 5, people have suggested type 5 once they talk to me enough. I'm trying to separate 5 and 3 influence though, and figure out how the wing manifests along with the 4. I see that 4w5s are intensely true to themselves, and I'm not saying that in a 'glamorous" way - being too stuck in your own 'ways' is not always a good thing, and I am independent to a fault - I wish I were more receptive. This is why I am usually single. It is the cause for my loneliness and much of why I shoot myself in the foot. For instance I insist on singing lead through my whispery voice instead of having a singer, which would likely bring my very professionally written songs to the level of success needed to make money. My whisper comes and goes, and instead of getting another singer, I simply write books when I can't sing for years. I'd rather not do it at all , than stray from honest self-expression, even at the cost of sinking money and time into a project that goes nowhere ultimately, but at least was honest while I was doing it. I catch a lot of shit for singing - when I ask a sound guy before a show to adjust my mic or EQ, they call me names and say "get a singer" - but then when they hear me sing, they apologize. Some have approached me after a show and said "WOW.. I was not expecting that." The thing is when I lost my voice I didn't sing or do music for anoyne else for a whole decade. I had to think, learn, accept, grow, go through a whole process to find my voice again. It's not as if I'm so confident I just marched into this. Tremendous loss and percolation occurred first. Research, listening to other music, thinking, finding myself, isolated exploration. The 3 comes out when I do and the 5 comes out when I prepare. It's confusing .

    I'm also terrified of intrusion on my private space. When my mother comes into my room while Im writing (she lives down the street) my heart thumps and my stomach gets hot. I get angry. I hate being intruded on. My sanctuary is MINE.

    But my energy and description of myself "in the world" does seem to be very 4w3. I don't have the 'icy demeanor' described for 4w5. When I do bother to talk to someone, I am pretty warm.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  10. #10
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    I also compartmentalize. For instance I have three facebook profiles: my male alter ego, and two female depictions. All three are as real as the others; they are all honest facets of myself. One of the females is from Earth and the other two are exiles from my home planet. :P The earth-female talks about politics and earthly things.. the other two have their own expression; the male tends to be more mysterious and express himself only through music and poetics whereas my female depiction is more philosophical and expressive. But I find it necessary to compartmentalize so that each self-expression is pure. Also, this way, fans follow my main page on facebook and they are not annoyed by my very not-PC , independent thinking politics, which end up annoying everyone of every party since I don't do 'parties' and go one issue at a time, so everyone thinks I'm deviant or wrong at some point. I never lie about the fact that these are all my pages, but I keep each presentation and exploration separate. I also hide things like which groups I belong to on certain profiles. I seem very open because I will discuss things like emotions and passion and sex very openly when others won't, but I am not nearly as open as I seem, and people can know me for years without knowing some of the most 'real' parts, unless they figure out where to look. I don't do this on purpose- I actually consider myself an open, true-to-myself expressive person, and my ideal self would be shameless. I do it without even realizing Im doing it, because it feels natural or I am protecting myself. It feels natural for instance, to withdraw when I feel insulted rather than give someone enough power to know that they hurt me. I prefer "you don't exist." Or "you have to earn my attention back, good luck." But without saying anything. It makes more sense to me to express my over-sensitive emotions in music and writing, rather than tell someone outright, and make myself vulnerable. If they care enough, they will figure my music and art out, and realize it's about them and handle it accordingly, and the truth is expressed; if they are willing to look for it.

    This is compartmentalization I think?
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

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