• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Desperately Seeking TYpe

á´…eparted

passages
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
It'd be stressful. But in the right company, I guess I could make it. It is what it is.

Hmm... that's somewhat inconclusive to me.

This is what I'm thinking: My initial reaction is ENFJ, but unless someone backs me up (which is doubtful), I don't want to state that with conviction. Thus it's best for me to let it go. ENTP seems fair (I thought about it more), and I generally would defer to [MENTION=20385]Alea_iacta_est[/MENTION], as he is quite good at typing people, and I am average at best. His interpretations hold more weight IMO. I say try ENTP on for size for a while, and see how things pan out :).
 
W

WALMART

Guest
And there is our wondrous Ti dominant. If you would care to, please entertain us with your finely tuned definition of Ne.

There is a reason Jung said Ne-doms seemed to be "bound by throngs of fate", a stone cast. Exactly contrary to your assertion, they are far closer in tune with a singular existence than multiple existences, they are "bound" by the intuitions they perceive, placing utmost importance on them.

You can even see the escalation of importance by turning over the foundations that function theory rest on: sense is the contact of objects, thought defines objects, feeling values objects, intuition "perceives from whence an object came and to where it is going", or put simply - idealization of objects.

This is why Jung typed the greatest divergent thinker of all time, 'the man who knew nothing' Socrates, a sense-dom. He repressed man's intuitions to the extreme in favor of a near-infinite scope of plausibility, giving rise one of the most effective critical thinking tools of all time.
 

Alea_iacta_est

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
1,834
There is a reason Jung said Ne-doms seemed to be "bound by throngs of fate", a stone cast. Exactly contrary to your assertion, they are far closer in tune with a singular existence than multiple existences, they are "bound" by the intuitions they perceive, placing utmost importance on them.

You can even see the escalation of importance by turning over the foundations that function theory rest on: sense is the contact of objects, thought defines objects, feeling values objects, intuition "perceives from whence an object came and to where it is going", or put simply - idealization of objects.

This is why Jung typed the greatest divergent thinker of all time, 'the man who knew nothing' Socrates, a sense-dom. He repressed man's intuitions to the extreme in favor of a near-infinite scope of plausibility, giving rise one of the most effective critical thinking tools of all time.

So you would propose that the extroverted intuitive is a person who is inclined to be intertwined with something like fate? A singular path, with detours where only one path may be chosen eventually and carefully? Because if so, that seems fairly accurate.

Perhaps there was a communication error with my utilization of "entertaining multiple possibilities" that could be interpreted as attempting several possibilities at once, when I actually meant that the extroverted intuitive entertains multiple possibilities in their head (considers different perspectives rather than physically attempting several things at once).
 
W

WALMART

Guest
So you would propose that the extroverted intuitive is a person who is inclined to be intertwined with something like fate? A singular path, with detours where only one path may be chosen eventually and carefully? Because if so, that seems fairly accurate.

Something like fate, in a sense that extraverted intuitive types latch strongly onto perceived ideals. Yes.

The second part I don't know how to answer. I don't believe I would agree with the carefully part, it seems like it would be a highly irrational (look, Jung planned for that) process.
 

HBIC

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Messages
174
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
8w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The whole "I AM AWESOME" is a stereotype, not all ENTP's are going to be like that. It can be a bit challenging, but one has to try and ignore the stereotypes. Most will fit most of them, but not everyone ;).

I really don't know why anyone would want to fit a stereotype. It's baffling.

Hmm... that's somewhat inconclusive to me.

This is what I'm thinking: My initial reaction is ENFJ, but unless someone backs me up (which is doubtful), I don't want to state that with conviction. Thus it's best for me to let it go. ENTP seems fair (I thought about it more), and I generally would defer to [MENTION=20385]Alea_iacta_est[/MENTION], as he is quite good at typing people, and I am average at best. His interpretations hold more weight IMO. I say try ENTP on for size for a while, and see how things pan out :).

Sounds like a plan.

So you would propose that the extroverted intuitive is a person who is inclined to be intertwined with something like fate? A singular path, with detours where only one path may be chosen eventually and carefully? Because if so, that seems fairly accurate.

Perhaps there was a communication error with my utilization of "entertaining multiple possibilities" that could be interpreted as attempting several possibilities at once, when I actually meant that the extroverted intuitive entertains multiple possibilities in their head (considers different perspectives rather than physically attempting several things at once).

That's a rather interesting idea.

That's how I see Ne dom too.
 

HBIC

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Messages
174
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
8w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Something like fate, in a sense that extraverted intuitive types latch strongly onto perceived ideals. Yes.

The second part I don't know how to answer. I don't believe I would agree with the carefully part, it seems like it would be a highly irrational (look, Jung planned for that) process.

That resonates with my thinking.
 

Alea_iacta_est

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
1,834
Something like fate, in a sense that extraverted intuitive types latch strongly onto perceived ideals. Yes.

The second part I don't know how to answer. I don't believe I would agree with the carefully part, it seems like it would be a highly irrational (look, Jung planned for that) process.

From what I've observed in my ENTP friend whenever there is an important decision to be made, he immediately starts working to see every possible route and the pros and cons of them, always wasting time attempting to find the miracle solution and carefully deliberating his options rather than taking the efficient, obvious solution (which Ni zeroes in on, ignoring other possibilities due to the probability of them leading to less fortunate circumstances). (Even though this is personal testimony, I feel that it holds some empirical gravity in this conversation)
 
W

WALMART

Guest
Perhaps there was a communication error with my utilization of "entertaining multiple possibilities" that could be interpreted as attempting several possibilities at once, when I actually meant that the extroverted intuitive entertains multiple possibilities in their head (considers different perspectives rather than physically attempting several things at once).

But that's the thing - it is about exploiting possibility, not simply about "pondering them".

This might be where Jung and modern interpretation differ - Jung's speculations being far greater in terms of value.

At the above - how do we know you've typed him correctly? It's like referencing a book I wrote to justify my own assertions.
 

Alea_iacta_est

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
1,834
But that's the thing - it is about exploiting possibility, not simply about "pondering them".

This might be where Jung and modern interpretation differ - Jung's speculations being far greater in terms of value.

At the above - how do we know you've typed him correctly? It's like referencing a book I wrote to justify my own assertions.

Well yes, extroverted perception is often given the archetype of the entrepreneur, finding profit in every possibility and exploiting possibilities, but what I am primarily elucidating is possibility selection, which would encompass the Ne-Ji mechanism as a whole. In this mechanism, extroverted intuition generates several different possibilities to solve a problem, and the Ji function refines those possibilities and carefully analyzes them to determine the optimum route based on what makes ethical or logical sense, essentially simulating the opposite attitude, introverted intuition, with possibility convergence rather than possibility expansion.
 

Alea_iacta_est

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
1,834
At the above - how do we know you've typed him correctly? It's like referencing a book I wrote to justify my own assertions.

Well, to be honest, the most efficient and effective way to type someone other than this method has generally been postulated to be the determination of the individual's inferior function, as the dominant and auxiliary functions can be as strong as each other.

If we were to completely appeal to empirical evidence, we would have to get the individual a brain scan by the guy who made this fine questionnaire, Dario Nardi, who has conducted experiments to link Jung's cognitive functions to centers of the brain.
 
W

WALMART

Guest
Well yes, extroverted perception is often given the archetype of the entrepreneur, finding profit in every possibility and exploiting possibilities, but what I am primarily elucidating is possibility selection, which would encompass the Ne-Ji mechanism as a whole. In this mechanism, extroverted intuition generates several different possibilities to solve a problem, and the Ji function refines those possibilities and carefully analyzes them to determine the optimum route based on what makes ethical or logical sense, essentially simulating the opposite attitude, introverted intuition, with possibility convergence rather than possibility expansion.

As a purely functional model of operation, yes.

But presuming one with the ability to simply conjure possibility as an Ne type would preclude every other type that is not an extraverted intuitor as having a sort of inferior sort of form for generating ideas, which clearly is not the case, given the fact that thinking doms regularly express these traits and Jung typed Socrates a sense-dom (I don't know where to fit in you feelers, though I'm sure you're there).

So, what is extraverted intuition if not the ability to entertain multiple possibilities given one set of data? It is the incessant drive to produce within from without, the way flames consume all which burns.
 

Alea_iacta_est

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
1,834
As a purely functional model of operation, yes.

But presuming one with the ability to simply conjure possibility as an Ne type would preclude every other type that is not an extraverted intuitor as having a sort of inferior sort of form for generating ideas, which clearly is not the case, given the fact that thinking doms regularly express these traits and Jung typed Socrates a sense-dom (I don't know where to fit in you feelers, though I'm sure you're there).

So, what is extraverted intuition if not the ability to entertain multiple possibilities given one set of data? It is the incessant drive to produce within from without, the way flames consume all which burns.

Well now we must entertain the dichotomy of extroverted perception and its entrepreneur-like qualities (due to the fact that you have raised the question of thinking leads generating ideas as well).

With Se, we see the capitalization of momentary gains, the immediate and tangible rewards that can be reaped, which fuels the introverted judging function's (and since we are limiting our scope to Thinking, Ti) need to categorize and define what extroverted perception brings to it.

With Ne, we see the capitalization of possibilities before they become immediately apparent to the extroverted sensor (which also means that the extroverted intuitive will be less apt in capitalizing on gains that are right in front of them), which also fuels introverted thinking's need to categorize and define what extroverted perception brings to it.

To address the probable argument of Te, Te is the vocalization of thoughts and the organization of the environment, which is then aided by the introverted perception function to realize potential or details that would be beneficial to the extroverted thinker's goals that are in the extroverted thinker's environment, which he is subsequently organizing to allow introverted perception to disseminate the information easily.

The problem herein lies with your static view of the system, that the functions act independently, when in fact, they operate in mechanisms and cannot exist healthily without each other. Perception provides the Thinking function with things to ponder, and every type has a judging and perceiving function in the dominant and auxiliary slot.

The 8 function model provides a better insight into the ability to conjure possibilities (as you put it), and even though it does not provide an absolute determination at who is the best conjurer of possibilities, it provides a baseline model that postulates which types have an immediate advantage over others in specific fields. While ENTPs are naturally predisposed to conjuring ideas and capitalizing on them due to the fact that their most powerful function is extroverted intuition, the INTJ has easy access to this function as well in the Opposing Personality Complex slot (shadow dominant), but chooses not to use it due to the fact that it is typically seen as tedious and boring (the basis of the id block in Socionics). We also must consider the individual aspect, that some individuals are naturally better at things than others. Where an INTJ leads with introverted intuition and therefore has a probability advantage over, say, an ISTP who has Ni in the tertiary slot, this particular ISTP could be developed enough and have another natural advantage that makes that particular ISTP's tertiary Ni much more developed and powerful than an unhealthy or average INTJ and can put it to more good use than the INTJ can.

Whereas you are looking at the system as one that defines clearly who is better at what, I'm looking at it as a broad guideline at who is probably better at a certain task than others.
 

infinite

New member
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Messages
565
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
~8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Also, while people associate Enneagram 8 with extroverted thinking and extroverted sensing, the traditional Enneagram 8 was associated with extroverted intuition (I think Naranjo detailed this?).

Naranjo associated 8 with Se.

It's Enneagram Institute (Riso/Hudson) that associates it with Ne.
 

infinite

New member
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Messages
565
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
~8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
There is a reason Jung said Ne-doms seemed to be "bound by throngs of fate", a stone cast. Exactly contrary to your assertion, they are far closer in tune with a singular existence than multiple existences, they are "bound" by the intuitions they perceive, placing utmost importance on them.

You can even see the escalation of importance by turning over the foundations that function theory rest on: sense is the contact of objects, thought defines objects, feeling values objects, intuition "perceives from whence an object came and to where it is going", or put simply - idealization of objects.

This is why Jung typed the greatest divergent thinker of all time, 'the man who knew nothing' Socrates, a sense-dom. He repressed man's intuitions to the extreme in favor of a near-infinite scope of plausibility, giving rise one of the most effective critical thinking tools of all time.

Sorry to ask but what do you mean by "near-infinite scope of plausibility"? Is this some Sensing thingie?

Are Jung's Ni-doms not feeling "fate" like Ne-doms do?


Something like fate, in a sense that extraverted intuitive types latch strongly onto perceived ideals. Yes.

Again, can you contrast Jung's Ni with this? And Jungian Se?

Thanks.
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
But "leaps of judgement" is what Ni is really about...:)
Don't hate Ni-ers when they do that... Try asking them questions for clarification... Thru that, Ni-ers can reverse engineer their conclusions...and identify whether they hold water or not...

yes, they have a natural tendency to do that, but it's still a problem that they should get under control (that's part of what typology is about: realizing your natural tendencies and how they may sometimes not be the best way to think, behave or handle a situation)
 
Top