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Type Me (New and Improved With Marmite Flavour!)

Jen's True Type


  • Total voters
    42

Totenkindly

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Lets see.

I SAID: Jen has a strong need for validation, and this thread is just but one example.

http://www.personalitypage.com/ESFJ.html:
SAID, about ESFJs:

"ESFJs are warm and energetic. They need approval from others to feel good about themselves...They're very sensitive to others, and freely give practical care. ESFJs are such caring individuals, that they sometimes have a hard time seeing or accepting a difficult truth about someone they care about...They have a strong need to be liked, and to be in control. They are extremely good at reading others, and often change their own manner to be more pleasing to whoever they're with at the moment."

ERGO: Jen has strong ESFJ qualities, enough to convince me that ESFJ is a good fit for her. I happen to think all of those qualities match her personality, but I based my illogical conclusion on the emboldened part only.

Thanks for explaining your logic, and if you just consider these points, I suppose you can extrapolate the horse from the hoof you are examining.

(Which is, basically, MY point. You're basing a broad type read on one aspect of Jen's personality.)

Whatever. It's all about one's opinion in this thread anyway, right?
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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Thanks for explaining your logic, and if you just consider these points, I suppose you can extrapolate the horse from the hoof you are examining.

(Which is, basically, MY point. You're basing a broad type read on one aspect of Jen's personality.)


Like I said, I think the rest of the profile matches pretty well too. And I think the most salient quality in her posts is the one I mentioned, so that's how I arrived at my choice.

Whatever. It's all about one's opinion in this thread anyway, right?

So you'd think... Seems like it's more about having the right opinion.
 

Ivy

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I think if we subtracted the insult from the implication of being an S, this would be a lot more productive. I don't think Jen is an S, but it's not off the table for discussion since she started the thread. Using it as a shorthand for "you suck" IS off the table, though. Plenty of people think I am an S, and I no longer agree (although I'm definitely close to the middle, either way). It doesn't really bother me that they think that UNLESS! I get the impression that they're trying to sneak an insult in there. I think some in this thread are doing that, but others are not.
 

Tigerlily

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Edahn your example is crap. that could apply to anyone with the slightest amount of low self esteem.

My Husband emailed this to me last week. He found it informative.

People with INFJ preferences are great innovators in the field of ideas. They trust their intuitive insights into the true relationships and meanings of things, regardless of established authority or popularly accepted beliefs. Problems only stimulate them--the impossible takes a little longer, but not much.

They are independent and individualistic, being governed by inspirations that come through intuition. These Inspirations deem so valid and important that they sometimes have trouble understanding why everyone does not accept them. Their inner independence is often not conspicuous because INFJs value harmony and fellowship; they work to persuade others to approve of and cooperate with their purposes. They can be great leaders when they devote themselves to carrying out a sound inspiration, attracting followers by their enthusiasm and faith. They lead by winning (rather than demanding) acceptance of their ideas.

They are most content in work that satisfies both their intuition and their feeling. The possibilities that interest them most concern people. Teaching particularly appeals to them, whether in higher education or through the arts or the ministry. Their intuition provides insight into the deeper meanings of the subject and they take great satisfaction to aiding the development of individual students.

When their interests lie in technical fields, INFJs may be outstanding in science, or research and development. Intuition suggest new approaches to problems and feeling generates enthusiasm that sparks their energies. Intuition powered by feeling may be of immense value in any field if not smothered in a routine job.

Some problems may result from the INFJ's single-minded devotion to inspirations. They may see the goal so clearly that they fail to look for other things that might conflict with the goal. It is also important that their feeling is developed, since this will supply necessary judgment. If their judgment is undeveloped is undeveloped, they will be unable to evaluate their own inner vision and will not listen to feedback from others. Instead of shaping their inspirations into effective action, they may merely try to regulate everything (small matters as well as great ones) according to their own ideas, so that little is accomplished.

INFJs are gentle, compassionate, and accepting, yet given to streaks of extreme stubbornness. The INFJ's driving force is their Intuition (N), which is directed inward (I), generating a never-ending stream of possibilities and ideas. In fact, the more the INFJ introverts, the more malleable and open-ended life can seem. But the external world has a way of interfering with this flow of inspirations and creativity because INFJs feel called upon to render service to humanity (F) in a very orderly and demanding way (J).

Consequently, when INFJs are committed to an ideal or cause, the stubbornness surfaces. These otherwise compliant, reserved individuals become extremely rigid and demanding of themselves and others, when pursuing a goal in the external world.

INFJs are dreamers whose genius, caring, and concern can be an inspiration to many other people. Their quietness gives them a low profile and their concern has a way of being intense in most situations in which they find themselves. In almost any interpersonal activity, from a board meeting to an intimate family gathering, the INFJ's quiet strength is felt by others. Their hope, aspiration, and caring have limits, however, and those limits can be invoked by the INFJ at any given moment. Such limits may have no apparent relationship to external events, and may leave others feeling frustrated, confused, possibly even deprived.

Those close to the INFJ may feel frustrated that so much of what is inside the INFJ is so rarely fully tapped. The frustration continues as those close to the INFJ may feel frustrated that so much of what is inside the INFJ is so rarely fully tapped. The frustration continues as those close to INFJs recognize that while they must respect INFJs' space, doing so diminishes INFJs' contributions to the world.

INFJs often have, without formal training, skills in group dynamics. Almost psychically, they are aware of various levels of interaction between and among people. However, such awareness remains largely their own, and efforts to make these observations known to others can be frustrating to INFJs.

Though they may maneuver themselves to receive affection, INFJs may be quite sparing in dispensing it to others because of their naturally Introverted manner. For the INFJ, talk is cheap, and the resulting sparsity of their communications can have a negative effect on relationships at work and home.

At home, INFJs are given the ultimate arena in which to act on both their idealism and their humanitarian concerns. Their longing for harmony is such a driving force that they sometimes create tension in their relationships by working so determinedly to eliminate it. They would do better to work out tensions within themselves than to focus on external conflicts, because they often carry very heavy inner burdens. In some ways, this fosters a sense of martyrdom typical of Feelers in general. Over the long term, the inner tension that plagues them as a consequence of imperfectly realized aspiration toward total harmony can do little except induce guilt in INFJs and others. The INFJ goal of harmony is particularly difficult to achieve because the model for it is rarely articulated, though the drive toward it is nonetheless unrelenting.

Parenting to an INFJ means accepting intense responsibility to help young minds and spirits develop on their own. By example and by direct involvement, the INFJ exerts great energy to see that all children are afforded every intellectual opportunity available. There is considerable allowance for differences--as long as each individual exerts himself or herself. The INFJ parent strives to be stimulating, resourceful, and helpful in everything. A young spirit is considered a terrible thing to waste. Toward that end, if a child shows interest in any kind of self-development, no matter how different from the preferred activities of the INFJ parent, that interest would still be encouraged. To the best of their abilities, the INFJ parent will provide whatever is necessary to foster growth.

The home and living style of the INFJ seem relatively neat to outsiders, but just below the surface lie a million, articles, and projects to be addressed at a later date. It is more important for the home atmosphere to be congenial, stimulating, and accepting than for it to be precisely neat and tidy. The home is a reference library for a wide variety of interests and pursuits. Most everything has some symbolism or meaning and rarely is anything discarded. The fantasy is that some day, the INFJ will wander through the Pandora's box of goodies and attend to each of the many projects contained within. Usually that remains only a fantasy for the INFJ.

Family events are opportunities for INFJs to explore and learn, so they are attended with eagerness and satisfaction. INFJs are especially sensitive to family tension and have a tendency to personalize those tensions, even blaming themselves for problems they did not create. If family events are sources of tension, INFJs will tend to shun them, even be terrified by them. If, on the other hand, they are filled with warmth and joy, INFJs can become quite involved, though often in a more passive than active way.

Wherever the INFJ is, there is work, particularly if the works offers some opportunity to grow and learn. As managers, INFJs are fairly open and very interested in both the people and the product. Though usually slow to give positive strokes, they are nonetheless inwardly proud of their subordinates' accomplishments and open to their desire for self-improvement. The biggest bane of the INFJ's work is conflict and tense interpersonal relationships. In general, INFJs are adept at helping others actualize their goals and eager--as both workers and managers--to actualize their own. They are at their best in situations that encourage personal enhancement.

INFJs can benefit from their mature years if more leisure time and less compulsiveness give them the freedom they need for dreams and inspirations. To daydream, fantasize, theorize, read, build something, or simply "follow a star" allow the INFJ to bring forth all sorts of inner creations. Later years can also be pleasant for INFJs who allow themselves to drop the world's many troubles, problems, and issues from their shoulders. Though this is very hard for them to do, a few succeed completely, it can be sweet relief for a type that, by virtue of their unique combination of preferences, tends to allow many of the world's cares to be heaped upon them.
hope. :)
 

Rajah

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Why do you keep trying to prove you're an INFJ? And if you're convinced you're an INFJ, why bother asking what we think anyway?
 

cafe

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I don't know if Jen feels this way about the S thing, but the thing that bothers me about possibly being an S is that I know I stink at most of the things SJs and SPs are supposed to be good at. So while I feel like I'm okay as an NF, as a Sensor, I would just suck.

Jen is really good at some things that one might consider the domain of Sensors like being a make-up artist and a fantastic housekeeper, but the way she goes about those things . . . she does the housekeeping thing because she is really, really J but she sort of does it in this manic, haphazard way that keeps the house looking great, but wears her out. It's not the steady, routine thing you might expect to see in an SJ, but maybe I don't know enough SJs.

And her career, she's fantastic at what she does and she loves making people look and feel beautiful, but at the same time dealing with people drives her nuts. She is able to keep it up because she has control over who she works for and that she does it only part time. If she did it full-time, in addition to the family responsibilities she'd probably kill somebody.

Same with the people organizing, she's really good at it and driven to do it (she likes to be in control), but it still drives her nuts half the time. Having a daily grind of that stuff would make her bonkers because she's (sorry Jen :hug:) kind of flaky and not all that extroverted.

INFJs are notorious self-disclosers, but we tend not to play fair. What we reveal may seem very personal and to others it may be, but to us, we wouldn't reveal it if we felt it made us too vulnerable. She has the drive to self-disclose, but she protects what matters to her. That's why we know what she looks like, we get to see pics of her work, but we don't see a whole lot on the forums about what's going on in her life or what she's thinking/feeling.

The 'need to be liked' thing . . . she needs the people she cares about to like and approve of her. Otherwise, she's just bored and wants some attention and to stir some crap up. :rolleyes:
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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Why do you keep trying to prove you're an INFJ? And if you're convinced you're an INFJ, why bother asking what we think anyway?


This must be the INFJ "lead[ing] by winning (rather than demanding) acceptance of their ideas." :yes:

Edahn your example is crap.

I gotta say, this all just reinforces the fact that this thread wasn't about asking people what your type is, but about getting people to see you the way you want to see yourself.

I have no doubt that you have intuitive moments, or that you share some qualities with INFJs, but I don't see those qualities as your dominant traits.
 

Tigerlily

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I'm pleased. I've learned a lot about each person who has posted in this thread. What I find most interesting is that some aren't as playful as I might have previously thought.
 
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I've been mentally abused by sensors throughout my childhood and it continues to happen. it's difficult and painful for me to discuss so stop pouring salt on my wounds. :cry:

INFJ with issues.

I've said before that you seem to have two modes that you post in. One I would describe as ESFJ, the other as IxFJ.

That's a good point. She doesn't really seem to be that interested in the intuitive approach...although I tend to generalize people who are interested in MBTI in the first place as intuitives.
 

Tigerlily

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INTP gang bang and one of the reasons I had such a negative view of the INTP. First impressions. :rolleyes: The INTJ remain my favorite type. They just don't seem the need to continuously prove how great they are.
 

Geoff

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INTP gang bang and one of the reasons I had such a negative view of the INTP. First impressions. :rolleyes: The INTJ remain my favorite type. They just don't seem the need to continuously prove how great they are.

Why do you take someone disagreeing with you as a personal affront, and in response go straight for the ad hominem? You've done it a number of times through this thread. Perhaps you should take a few minutes to explain what you actually want to achieve here?

For example, why put it up for open vote, and then disregard the ability of anyone who disagrees with you as either not liking you/unable to type people/not knowing you well enough or just plain wrong. Is this not a waste of everyone's time?
 

Geoff

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I wouldn't say a "criticism," it's probably just frustrating to feel like a few people only see part of you and for whatever reason can't see the rest.

Hmmm.
1. Are there types who aren't really offended if they feel mistyped (versus others more prone to be annoyed), or is it truly just a personal reaction?
2. If someone else you know whom you think is an ESFJ was posting this thread... would it have looked different at all than Jen's responses?

Oh, didn't see this one before.

1. I suspect most people are... hmm... personally challenged. It's targetting everything they feel they "are" if they have identified strongly with a type. If, like me, you don't know what the hell type you are, it's entertaining.

2. I know a handful of ESFJs, and they would respond much like this. A big focus on where they, as a result, sit socially as a result of posts. They would want to know who is "for them", "against them".. who is in their club of agreeing with the original idea. They would also twist and turn it into something else when they felt uncomfortable. I see this a lot with a good friend of mine who is ESFJ. If I raise some weird conceptual idea they will dismiss the idea and instead try to analyse me or how I fit in relation to others. Jen does this quite a bit on this thread.
 

Tigerlily

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Let's try a more positive approach. For those of you who think I am responding poorly please provide examples of how you think I should be responding instead of asking me the same question over and over.
 

proteanmix

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Oh, didn't see this one before.

1. I suspect most people are... hmm... personally challenged. It's targetting everything they feel they "are" if they have identified strongly with a type. If, like me, you don't know what the hell type you are, it's entertaining.

2. I know a handful of ESFJs, and they would respond much like this. A big focus on where they, as a result, sit socially as a result of posts. They would want to know who is "for them", "against them".. who is in their club of agreeing with the original idea. They would also twist and turn it into something else when they felt uncomfortable. I see this a lot with a good friend of mine who is ESFJ. If I raise some weird conceptual idea they will dismiss the idea and instead try to analyse me or how I fit in relation to others. Jen does this quite a bit on this thread.

Geoff, how do you think an ENFJ or INFJ would handle it as a point of comparison? What you just described seemed like a general FJ thing, but I'm not sure.

I do find the way this thread has developed to be very interesting!
 

disregard

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Respond to the content, not the character of the individual posting.

For example, if I say, "You seem more oriented to the external world rather than your inner world"

Respond with explanation as to how you are oriented to your inner world rather than "Well, you don't know me." or "I like you, I don't know why you're being like this."
 

Rajah

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Why?


This thread, broken down:

Jen: Discuss A.

Us: *discussing A*

Jen: I said the topic was discussing A, but really it's about discussing B.

Us: Huh?

Jen: And if you didn't get that, you suck and aren't playful.

Us: Oh.


That is why the people in this thread are kinda confused, Jen.
 

Tigerlily

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I like to let things go haywire and bring them to order. I'll be back later.
 

Totenkindly

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2. I know a handful of ESFJs, and they would respond much like this. A big focus on where they, as a result, sit socially as a result of posts. They would want to know who is "for them", "against them".. who is in their club of agreeing with the original idea. They would also twist and turn it into something else when they felt uncomfortable. I see this a lot with a good friend of mine who is ESFJ. If I raise some weird conceptual idea they will dismiss the idea and instead try to analyse me or how I fit in relation to others. Jen does this quite a bit on this thread.

All right, I do see this and can understand where you have come from and why you got there.

To me, though, this is all Fe being twisted around. Many different types use Fe. The four main ones of course are ENFJ, INFJ, ESFJ, and ISFJ. So is this primary Fe that is being screwed up by a poor secondary; or is it secondary Fe being screwed up by a poor Pi primary?

Another thing I do not think y'all are getting is that Jen might look like she's doing what you're saying -- because that's what it looks like on the surface -- but mostly she's just bored and jerking your chain around.

What I have found with ESFJs is that often when using Fe badly, they're NOT aware of it... or they're a mess and inside and recognize that much but have no idea what's wrong or how to fix it. Because they're stuck in their frame of reference.

It seems very obvious to me that Jen is quite aware of what you're saying and what your Fe analysis is, she was aware of it from the start (she was pretty bluntly honest about that when Edahn called her on a number of things, "you're goddamned right this is all about me"), and she's not locked inside her own paradigm. She's mostly playing the game because she feels like it.

This is far more typical of INFJ, and she easily seems to step outside of her frame of reference and has no problem with doing that. Fe is merely the clothes that she wears to go out, not the flesh under the clothes, just like an INxP can wear Ne to socialize in and still be an introvert.

In any case, she's definitely not ISFJ. (I am intimately acquainted with a range of them and she wouldn't mesh; they'd see her as a little quirky because she's not nearly as anchored, 100% practical, and rooted in the tangible world as they are.)

That is why the people in this thread are kinda confused, Jen.

Actually, I've been at the receiving end of this before (the team up by you and Edahn and maybe Geoff, in my blog), and so I don't think it's all just her. It just took me a bit of time to catch on, because originally I assumed it was all me too... until I thought about it.

It's the sort of approach you guys are taking that is adding to the confusion; I think there's also some personality dynamic where her style personally rubs you the wrong way, and you're not seeing past it.

Communication is a two-way street. Perhaps the way you are analyzing what's occurring in the thread and attributing particular motivations to her behavior is not reflective of the total reality.

As to how to build a bridge instead of dissecting the other party, well, that's up to you to figure out.
 

Geoff

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Geoff, how do you think an ENFJ or INFJ would handle it as a point of comparison? What you just described seemed like a general FJ thing, but I'm not sure.

I do find the way this thread has developed to be very interesting!

Number 1 I don't think it would be any different.. most types would find it hard to have their type challenged. Of course, each type reacts differently under stress.

As for the reaction exhibited.. the ESFJ is most concerned with social structure out of the three listed, so a response around who agreed, who disagreed, whether that gives a who-likes-who and who is for who reaction is most likely.

An INFJ would more likely attack this.. hmm.. conceptually - try and argue why they disagree with the typing, or instead just do a screw you, I am what I am approach. In reality I don't think many of them would be in a thread like this looking for the answer, because it is something they are likely to explore for themselves. The one INFJ I know really well (Eileen) is, I would say, much more likely to do this (the self involved reflection response). I doubt the social impact would be of great importance.

A healthy happy ENFJ would likely be more confident in their type, having more fun in people questioning it, and less likely to dismiss ad hominem opinions that clash. The social status would be a factor still, but less...ordered and comparative. From what I've seen, ENFJ can be over sensitive to personal criticism/comments when unhealthy, so an ENFJ may just also explode in a shower of abuse.
 
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