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  1. #1
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    Default ENFP or ESFP? Help!

    Quick about me: an INTJ who sometimes tests as an INFJ. Strong I, moderate N/J, weak T/F. The gentlest INTJ you'll ever meet, essentially.

    Right now: I've been seeing a girl for the last month. I like her, and I'm having fun with her. We live in a major American city, and we both work for well-known arts institutions. I simply cannot, for the life of me, figure out if she's an ENFP or ESFP. It's driving me nuts and stressing me out - considering that ENFPs are a classically great match for my type, and ESFPs are quite possibly the worst - and so I'm hoping all of you can help me a bit.

    On the ENFP side of things: she reads The New Yorker and listens to more abstract podcasts like Freakonomics. Has a strong interest in opera and classical music. Works in public relations at a very famous arts institution. Felt pressured to join a sorority at the small university she attended, and looks at it with a sense of regret and feeling that she didn't match the 'party girl' stereotype. Her OKCupid profile notes that she likes intellectual conversations, and she told me how she disliked having meathead dudes message her with pictures of their abs. Seems to think about her future - what her kids will be like, where she wants to live in 5-10 years. Has observed that all things are grey, and nothing is black or white in the world. Has spoken disparagingly of a sister who is obsessed with celebrity gossip and knows nothing of the arts.

    On the ESFP side: she doesn't really seem to be weird or zany or wildly creative in the way that a lot of ENFPs are. She doesn't dress like an ENFP girl in a creative way, although part of that is working for an organization that doesn't let her wear jeans to work. Did belong to a sorority, once upon a time. Doesn't talk a lot about hidden meanings or abstractions, and doesn't seem especially scatter-brained or helplessly disorganized. Doesn't seem particularly obsessed with figuring out why people act the way that they do. Doesn't volunteer or do a lot of overt 'help the world' things that ENFPs tend to like. Works an office job, as opposed to something more free-flowing.

    So what do you guys think? Am I dating a somewhat more conservative ENFP, or a more intellectual ESFP, or something else entirely? I'm perfectly inclined to believe that some people don't fall neatly into the four quadrants - I straddle the T/F divide, other people are ambiverts who have no Introvert/Extrovert preference, and she just may be someone who is caught between an N and S. I'd be curious to hear what people think of this. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    1. JCF* isn't that accurate for determining relationship patterns, love who you want based on who they are, not a 4 digit code, but if you are an INTp (INTJ) in Socionics (a JCF system more revolving around interpersonal relations with different definitions for functions) then ESFp (ESFP) is your dual and ENFp (ENFP) is your illusionary (one of the worst interpersonal relationships possible in Socionics).

    2. I don't see any preferences for cognitive functions excepting the "weird, zany, wildly creative" that hints at Ne but could easily apply to any Pe dominant.

    * Jungian Cognitive Functions

  3. #3
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    You'll have to give more info. None of this seems to indicate either ENFP or ESFP. Plus the whole "N = intellectual and artistic" and "S = party girl and average-shooting" isn't really that efficient of a way to look at it. I think looking at how she thinks is probably the most important thing, rather than looking at what she's doing with her life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    1. JCF* isn't that accurate for determining relationship patterns, love who you want based on who they are, not a 4 digit code
    Yes.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by VVG View Post
    She doesn't dress like an ENFP girl in a creative way, although part of that is working for an organization that doesn't let her wear jeans to work. Did belong to a sorority, once upon a time.
    I've also heard there are plenty ENFPs that don't give two craps how they dress. They can actually look like quite the slobs.

    Belonging to a sorority doesn't say anything. Hints at Fe, but you gotta remember ExFPs can occasionally behave this way too.

    Know if you're a real INTJ or not. If it's BLATANTLY CLEAR she annoys you, ESFP. If she slightly annoys you but you love her deep down, that's ENFP.

    ISTJs behave the same way with ESFPs. They appear to be annoyed with the ESFP for the moment, but in the long run a relationship can occur. ISTJs will never love ENFPs and INTJs will never love ESFPs. Both will be annoyed by both in the short-term, tho.

    Ergo, it sounds like this person would default to ENFP, but when in doubt, circle answer E): not enough information is given.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    Know if you're a real INTJ or not. If it's BLATANTLY CLEAR she annoys you, ESFP. If she slightly annoys you but you love her deep down, that's ENFP.
    Nah it's not as black and white. I know someone who types as INTJ and someone who types as ENFP (and he really is as ENFP as it gets), and they quite annoy each other, not just slightly

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by VVG View Post
    Quick about me: an INTJ who sometimes tests as an INFJ. Strong I, moderate N/J, weak T/F. The gentlest INTJ you'll ever meet, essentially.

    Right now: I've been seeing a girl for the last month. I like her, and I'm having fun with her. We live in a major American city, and we both work for well-known arts institutions. I simply cannot, for the life of me, figure out if she's an ENFP or ESFP. It's driving me nuts and stressing me out - considering that ENFPs are a classically great match for my type, and ESFPs are quite possibly the worst - and so I'm hoping all of you can help me a bit.

    On the ENFP side of things: she reads The New Yorker and listens to more abstract podcasts like Freakonomics. Has a strong interest in opera and classical music. Works in public relations at a very famous arts institution. Felt pressured to join a sorority at the small university she attended, and looks at it with a sense of regret and feeling that she didn't match the 'party girl' stereotype. Her OKCupid profile notes that she likes intellectual conversations, and she told me how she disliked having meathead dudes message her with pictures of their abs. Seems to think about her future - what her kids will be like, where she wants to live in 5-10 years. Has observed that all things are grey, and nothing is black or white in the world. Has spoken disparagingly of a sister who is obsessed with celebrity gossip and knows nothing of the arts.

    On the ESFP side: she doesn't really seem to be weird or zany or wildly creative in the way that a lot of ENFPs are. She doesn't dress like an ENFP girl in a creative way, although part of that is working for an organization that doesn't let her wear jeans to work. Did belong to a sorority, once upon a time. Doesn't talk a lot about hidden meanings or abstractions, and doesn't seem especially scatter-brained or helplessly disorganized. Doesn't seem particularly obsessed with figuring out why people act the way that they do. Doesn't volunteer or do a lot of overt 'help the world' things that ENFPs tend to like. Works an office job, as opposed to something more free-flowing.

    So what do you guys think? Am I dating a somewhat more conservative ENFP, or a more intellectual ESFP, or something else entirely? I'm perfectly inclined to believe that some people don't fall neatly into the four quadrants - I straddle the T/F divide, other people are ambiverts who have no Introvert/Extrovert preference, and she just may be someone who is caught between an N and S. I'd be curious to hear what people think of this. Thanks.
    If there's only this much information and must choose a type then ESFP > ENFP - only because you said a lot of things specifically against Ne here.

    I agree with the others here about one thing. Forget the fucking ideas about what type is supposed to fit you. How the hell can you get so stressed out over some unproven theory like that? Please don't let silly ideas ruin anything.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Nah it's not as black and white. I know someone who types as INTJ and someone who types as ENFP (and he really is as ENFP as it gets), and they quite annoy each other, not just slightly

    Fair enough. If he really annoys you beyond all hope, it could be ENFP or ESFP. But if that's not the case and you truly connect with him, that's how you know he's ENFP.

  8. #8

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    @VVG

    I'd say she's very likely an N. Her interests seem much more N than S, and the things you've listed that make you think she might not be an ENFP don't sound much like an ESFP to me. The fact that she made it known on her OKCupid profile that she likes intellectual conversations makes me think it's very likely she's an N. I'm not saying it's impossible that there are some ESFPs who enjoy the od intellectual conversation from time to time, but it's very unlikely that they'd list it as one of the main things they're interested in, or spend a lot of time engaged in that kind of discussion. ESFPs can certainly be intelligent, but they're not likely to be interested in intellectual pursuits. As an example, have a look at @Comeback Girl's posts in the Ask an ESFP thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    I don't like deep conversations. Ever since my teachers decided that I was smart (turns out my IQ was 140), they wanted me to do more intellectual things and study more and I never wanted to. Everybody suddenly expected me to be into deep subjects and geeky things and they tried to force these things on me, so I developed a bit of an aversion to most deep subjects. Unless it's about things that have a certain impact on the real world, like political stuff. When it's about equal rights for example, let it be for gays, women, minorities, anything, I won't shy away from it. But don't get me talking about metaphysics.
    You say she " Has spoken disparagingly of a sister who is obsessed with celebrity gossip and knows nothing of the arts." And that's another good reason to think she's an N, especially if you're sure she's a P; not just because an ESFP would be more likely to be interested in celebrity gossip than an ENFP, but because, even if any particular ESFP wasn't personally interested in that sort of thing, they wouldn't be very likely to have that kind of disdain for those who are.

    She thinks about the future, whereas SPs live in the present. Again, I'm not saying that ESFPs never, ever think about the future, but SPs would generally prefer not to waste their time thinking about what might be when they could be enjoying and responding to the pleasures of the moment. If you're saying she has lots of long term plans, that would make me think she's probably an NJ. Have you considered ENFJ for her? That would explain why she doesn't seem as wild/scattered as ENFPs tend to be.

    Finally, are you interested in any discussion about your T/F preference? I had some T/F confusion of my own, and I've spent a lot of time thinking about my own preference and engaging in T/F discussions over on Personality Café, so I'm up for discussing it with you if you're interested.

  9. #9
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octavarium View Post
    @VVG

    I'd say she's very likely an N. Her interests seem much more N than S, and the things you've listed that make you think she might not be an ENFP don't sound much like an ESFP to me. The fact that she made it known on her OKCupid profile that she likes intellectual conversations makes me think it's very likely she's an N. I'm not saying it's impossible that there are some ESFPs who enjoy the od intellectual conversation from time to time, but it's very unlikely that they'd list it as one of the main things they're interested in, or spend a lot of time engaged in that kind of discussion. ESFPs can certainly be intelligent, but they're not likely to be interested in intellectual pursuits. As an example, have a look at @Comeback Girl's posts in the Ask an ESFP thread.



    You say she " Has spoken disparagingly of a sister who is obsessed with celebrity gossip and knows nothing of the arts." And that's another good reason to think she's an N, especially if you're sure she's a P; not just because an ESFP would be more likely to be interested in celebrity gossip than an ENFP, but because, even if any particular ESFP wasn't personally interested in that sort of thing, they wouldn't be very likely to have that kind of disdain for those who are.

    She thinks about the future, whereas SPs live in the present. Again, I'm not saying that ESFPs never, ever think about the future, but SPs would generally prefer not to waste their time thinking about what might be when they could be enjoying and responding to the pleasures of the moment. If you're saying she has lots of long term plans, that would make me think she's probably an NJ. Have you considered ENFJ for her? That would explain why she doesn't seem as wild/scattered as ENFPs tend to be.

    Finally, are you interested in any discussion about your T/F preference? I had some T/F confusion of my own, and I've spent a lot of time thinking about my own preference and engaging in T/F discussions over on Personality Café, so I'm up for discussing it with you if you're interested.
    I agree, she is very N.


    I question T/F, too. The other three are obvious.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    ESFP is your exact opposite. But essentially uses all the same functions. In the eyes of Jung, that makes them your match, because they "complete" you. Anima/animus. Also, not all Se or Ne fit into neat groups. I know super creative ESFPs and more tame bookworm ENFPs. I know ENFPs in sororities and ESFPs that like to find meaning in their dreams. The only thing that seemed more ENFP than ESFP was that she likes to think about her future: tertiary Si. But maybe your friend is actually ESFJ.
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