User Tag List

First 456

Results 51 to 59 of 59

  1. #51
    LadyLazarus
    Guest

    Default

    Definitely 4--you've got huge levels of self-awareness. Another type with a significant 4-fix can be similarly self aware; I think the difference is that 4s tend to identify with their emotional states more than the other types. (Ring any bells?)
    Hmm,yes I think it does.

    You're welcome guys. This is something that is often overlooked when explaining Sixes and leads to a lot of confusion about just what makes a 6 a 6. Not anxiety, existential anxiety.
    Yes I don't think I suffer from existential anxiety at all,thank you for emphasizing that aspect of 6's;I've never though of them that way but now it makes sense.
    What Tsu seems to be emphasizing is that from a very early age, she felt different and flawed, and she feels this may have attracted bullying until she learned to protect that side of herself. Her sense of "difference" precedes what people told her
    Yes, spot on.

    She says she identifies most with 4 and 6, as well as the 468 tritype, so I don't find it unreasonable for us to debate core 4 vs core 6. I personally am not seeing much evidence for a 6 core here, but I do think her early childhood perceptions are highly indicative of 4.
    Thank you,this is why I found it strange that Starry seemed to think I was an Sx 9w1,not to be hard headed but it is nowhere in my tritype.Although I will give them this;I might indeed have a 6w5 instead of a 6w7 like I originally thought as well as an 8w9 instead of w7, within my tritype;thus,I appreciate their bringing that to light for me.
    I do think 4 and 6 are the contenders in terms of my core type among all the others,as I relate to their fears well.I also know my body type is neither 9 or 1,I do not identify with their fears,8's fears of appearing weak and betrayal seem much more relatable.

    But with much difficulty,I digress.

  2. #52
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tsunderes View Post
    Now for 6.I relate to 6's need to face their fears;I have to come to suspect that I have a bit of social anxiety,people have always made me extremely nervous and I really detest talking to strangers.Once more,going back to my younger days,I used to go to great lengths to avoid having to interact with people(ie. skipping school,ditching class)for fear that they would notice my anxiety,therefore I would run away from my fears.As I have grown,I've learned to enjoy pushing myself to do things I am afraid of such as interacting with people when necessary,I've learned to hide my anxiety mildly well,and appear relatively at ease,although I still haven't figured out how to stop myself from blushing when someone catches me off-guard,haha.All in all,I like pushing myself to do things I don't want to/am afraid of,I see them as a challenge or a chance to improve myself.
    I've always been very shy, which is basically a mild social anxiety. I used to skip class & flake out on stuff just to avoid interaction too.
    However, just because you feel anxiety over certain things does not make fear your ego fix's "passion". The thing about enneagram is that ALL of the passions are common to the human experience, but with a certain fixation, one will characterize you more.

    6s have an existential fear that they are always looking to sort of justify. The whole point is not that they have any specific anxiety, but that they experience everything through a lens of cowardice (which can look like worry or skepticism or insecurity, etc), so that they need to find & create reasons to support this fear with no clear source.

    4s do the same with envy, which means they look inward & at their situation to constantly note what is missing or defective about them that others have. This is often more emotional/spiritual - not material things or specific talents, but others have love or others are fulfilling their potential, etc. Even if it's not true, the 4 will discount the meaningful stuff in their lives to justify the envy, or the idea that others have it better somehow.

    This feeling of "missing something" can result in a shame over who you are. That shame can give you social anxiety.

    I used to say I was timid when describing my shyness, but that word did not articulate the real source of it. I realized long ago that I do not fear or suspect others nor am I scared of their judgement - I withdraw because I am ashamed to be seen. It was my own sense of inadequacy, that I was not what I felt I should be, and that I had nothing to offer others that they'd value.

    Maybe that will ring a bell for you. So much self-help stuff frames everything in terms of fear, and it never really hit home for me. Learning enneagram helped me see shame as a core issue for me, and then all my own behaviors & motivations really fell into place. To ease my shyness, I tell myself I have something to offer people that is significant. Even better is what another INFP a told me - remember that YOU have the power to make OTHERS feel significant also. It's not about fear - it's shame over a sense of being some defective NOTHING who would just irritate people by existing. So there are no fears for me to calm, but instead I just need a bolstering of self-esteem when feeling shy & avoident of others & a more "noble cause" - to think beyond my own feeling & consider how my shyness looks like snobbery or disinterest in others.

    In a way, this makes shyness in 4s & 6s quite different, as 4s need to stop being hyper self-aware & consider the feelings of others, and 6s often need to stop being hyper-vigilant concerning others' reactions & "moves".
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #53
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    MBTI
    Ne
    Enneagram
    468 sx/so
    Socionics
    :-( None
    Posts
    822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I wish I was online at this time more often. I mean, I am sometimes but with it being late/early for me... generally, I will only brave communicating with someone I feel knows me...privately. But I really feel I would enjoy interacting with you. I'm also immediately grateful for individuals that do not take personal offense to being disagreed with. <-I honestly feel this kind of person is going extinct or something and it frightens me...but that's a whole nuther thread. Just thank you for...being you.
    Hey, that's totally cool. I enjoy discussing the theory; as long as we're disagreeing about that and not attacking each other personally, it makes the forum an enjoyable place to be. I believe it's all part of the learning process and is also useful to others who may read this thread in the future.

    Anyway, you seem like an awesome person as well. Let's keep up the correspondence.

    I sometimes feel strange running a counter-argument because my mission isn't to convince Sanjuro that I am right. I usually just want to put forth the initial disagreement so individuals (if they are paying attention which I typically doubt) will have an alternative way of looking at the information. What you write above though...I believe this only serves to reinforce what I was saying (that any type can experience feeling profoundly flawed.) I actually don't know an accurately typed NF that doesn't feel fundamentally different from the world around them...I'm not even sure how this would not manifest in an NF. And yes, for a good many of us...this difference ends up being interpreted as being 'fundamentally wrong.'

    Anyway, I could go point for point but...??? If I decide to I'll do it tomorrow Thanks Sanjuro.
    That's great.

    I'm an NT, actually, and I've still been a misfit. My mom's an ISFJ 9w1, and she claims she felt the same way, too. She typed as 5 initially for this reason, I think. (She's also 4-fixed, and I'm not sure if her feelings on this were inherent or the result of being devalued later in life, however).

    Nonetheless, if Tsu's primary issue is feeling flawed and separate, and this existed prior to being poorly treated by her peers, I still maintain that 4 is a better option than 6, especially given that she hasn't expressed much in the way of true existential anxiety. I'm interested in hearing the final verdict from her.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    2,340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I've always been very shy, which is basically a mild social anxiety. I used to skip class & flake out on stuff just to avoid interaction too.
    However, just because you feel anxiety over certain things does not make fear your ego fix's "passion". The thing about enneagram is that ALL of the passions are common to the human experience, but with a certain fixation, one will characterize you more.

    6s have an existential fear that they are always looking to sort of justify. The whole point is not that they have any specific anxiety, but that they experience everything through a lens of cowardice (which can look like worry or skepticism or insecurity, etc), so that they need to find & create reasons to support this fear with no clear source.

    4s do the same with envy, which means they look inward & at their situation to constantly note what is missing or defective about them that others have. This is often more emotional/spiritual - not material things or specific talents, but others have love or others are fulfilling their potential, etc. Even if it's not true, the 4 will discount the meaningful stuff in their lives to justify the envy, or the idea that others have it better somehow.

    This feeling of "missing something" can result in a shame over who you are. That shame can give you social anxiety.

    I used to say I was timid when describing my shyness, but that word did not articulate the real source of it. I realized long ago that I do not fear or suspect others nor am I scared of their judgement - I withdraw because I am ashamed to be seen. It was my own sense of inadequacy, that I was not what I felt I should be, and that I had nothing to offer others that they'd value.

    Maybe that will ring a bell for you. So much self-help stuff frames everything in terms of fear, and it never really hit home for me. Learning enneagram helped me see shame as a core issue for me, and then all my own behaviors & motivations really fell into place. To ease my shyness, I tell myself I have something to offer people that is significant. Even better is what another INFP a told me - remember that YOU have the power to make OTHERS feel significant also. It's not about fear - it's shame over a sense of being some defective NOTHING who would just irritate people by existing. So there are no fears for me to calm, but instead I just need a bolstering of self-esteem when feeling shy & avoident of others & a more "noble cause" - to think beyond my own feeling & consider how my shyness looks like snobbery or disinterest in others.

    In a way, this makes shyness in 4s & 6s quite different, as 4s need to stop being hyper self-aware & consider the feelings of others, and 6s often need to stop being hyper-vigilant concerning others' reactions & "moves".
    Ooh! I like this ^ That's a good distinction, IMO.

    I am a six, and yeah I have some of that fourish stuff, but mostly I am panicky. I used to act very introverted, but then I realized (after a lot of bullying) that my withdrawn nature was being interpreted as being aloof/superior/weird/elitist. So now I am defensively friendly, kind of like: Hey! I'm a normal person, I don't think I'm better than you, I don't want no trouble, justa regular dumb guy over here, *insert nervous joke*. Then they move on, and I heave a sigh of relief and return into myself. Every strange person I meet is a bomb hurled into my lap that I must defuse with self-deprecating humour and fumblingly eager enthusiasm.

    I am afraid to allow myself to feel comfortable and secure, so I'll even manufacture danger if I can't find any. When I get bored at my customer service job, I start hurling myself into very weird, uncomfortable interactions just to see if I can verbally escape and make the customer laugh.

    That's not all 6's mind you, but I'm a phobic 6w7 sp type, with a lot of Ne, so I am much more verbal and hyper. Don't get so hung up on how I behave, so much as what's motivating the behaviour.

    So going back to what you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by tsunderes View Post
    Now for 6.I relate to 6's need to face their fears;I have to come to suspect that I have a bit of social anxiety,people have always made me extremely nervous and I really detest talking to strangers.Once more,going back to my younger days,I used to go to great lengths to avoid having to interact with people(ie. skipping school,ditching class)for fear that they would notice my anxiety,therefore I would run away from my fears.As I have grown,I've learned to enjoy pushing myself to do things I am afraid of such as interacting with people when necessary,I've learned to hide my anxiety mildly well,and appear relatively at ease,although I still haven't figured out how to stop myself from blushing when someone catches me off-guard,haha.All in all,I like pushing myself to do things I don't want to/am afraid of,I see them as a challenge or a chance to improve myself.
    This sounds very sixish, and so does the general tone of your post (The "weird rant aside" comment, suggests 6 defensiveness to me, for example. 6's often use disclaimers and self-deprecation as a defense mechanism, not that they OWN this behaviour).

    Edit: Not to muddy the waters, I'm just making a case for 6, since you seem to be leaning towards 4.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,997

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tsunderes View Post
    Alright,so I'm starting to question whether I'm really a four or if I just want to be a four,because I want to be special and misunderstood or whatever.

    I usually test as a 4w5,but that doesn't tell me much as I understand online tests are inaccurate,I fear I may just be lying to myself sub-consciously or something,or maybe I really have no idea who I am.Either way,I want to know which one I am,as the enneagram is a tool for self discovery and growth,and possibly lying to myself just defeats the purpose of it all.

    Anyways,weird rant aside,I am pretty confident my tritype is some variant of 4-6-8,with the eight in last.

    That being said,I relate to both 4 and 6 pretty well.

    In regards to 4 I relate to their feelings of shame,of being defective,their romanticism,being aware of their own emotions,as well as their integration and disintegration points.When I was younger I always felt that I wasn't like my peers,like I was fucked up in some way that made me awkward,and inept in comparison.I think this was due to my being very sensitive from an early age,in tandem with being rejected by certain people early on,I've never truly been able to get over/cope with that.Whereas before I felt I was defective,now I have come to accept myself for what I am,and understand that there's nothing wrong with me,it's just the way I am.

    The only thing I don't relate to is 4's aversion to conflict,but maybe that's just because of my tritype.

    Now for 6.I relate to 6's need to face their fears;I have to come to suspect that I have a bit of social anxiety,people have always made me extremely nervous and I really detest talking to strangers.Once more,going back to my younger days,I used to go to great lengths to avoid having to interact with people(ie. skipping school,ditching class)for fear that they would notice my anxiety,therefore I would run away from my fears.As I have grown,I've learned to enjoy pushing myself to do things I am afraid of such as interacting with people when necessary,I've learned to hide my anxiety mildly well,and appear relatively at ease,although I still haven't figured out how to stop myself from blushing when someone catches me off-guard,haha.All in all,I like pushing myself to do things I don't want to/am afraid of,I see them as a challenge or a chance to improve myself.
    However,I do not relate to 6's loyalist,rule abiding nature,but that may be because I'm an Sx first?I also do not relate to it's disintegration point for certain,and I'm pretty sure I don't relate to it's integration point very well either.


    I apologize for my rambling,and would appreciate anyone's input on which one they think I am,based on this of course.
    The 6 is an emotionally volatile type, and you haven't described yourself that way at all.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #56
    LadyLazarus
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    The 6 is an emotionally volatile type, and you haven't described yourself that way at all.
    I actually can be pretty emotionally volatile,I don't think it was very evident in my original post.
    Although,I do admit I am much more emotionally stable now than I have been in the past.

  7. #57
    LadyLazarus
    Guest

    Default

    This sounds very sixish, and so does the general tone of your post (The "weird rant aside" comment, suggests 6 defensiveness to me, for example. 6's often use disclaimers and self-deprecation as a defense mechanism, not that they OWN this behaviour).

    Edit: Not to muddy the waters, I'm just making a case for 6, since you seem to be leaning towards 4.
    Yes,I can see that.No,no it's fine I want to see good arguments for both.

    Haha well,there's kind of been an overwhelming response for 4.

  8. #58
    LadyLazarus
    Guest

    Default

    Nonetheless, if Tsu's primary issue is feeling flawed and separate, and this existed prior to being poorly treated by her peers, I still maintain that 4 is a better option than 6, especially given that she hasn't expressed much in the way of true existential anxiety. I'm interested in hearing the final verdict from her.
    Well Sanjuro;my verdict is as follows:4w5 sx/sp, as I see no existential anxiety in myself either,my anxiety is much more specific and restrained to social situations.Despite some very good arguments for 6,I am going to go with 4.Your posts along with Azure Flame's and Starry's prompted me to look further into the enneagram fears.Upon farther consideration of all the fears,I indeed landed on 4 once more.I think I possess 6-ish traits but not motivations,due to my 6-fix.
    So I thank everybody for their help!

  9. #59
    LadyLazarus
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I've always been very shy, which is basically a mild social anxiety. I used to skip class & flake out on stuff just to avoid interaction too.
    However, just because you feel anxiety over certain things does not make fear your ego fix's "passion". The thing about enneagram is that ALL of the passions are common to the human experience, but with a certain fixation, one will characterize you more.

    6s have an existential fear that they are always looking to sort of justify. The whole point is not that they have any specific anxiety, but that they experience everything through a lens of cowardice (which can look like worry or skepticism or insecurity, etc), so that they need to find & create reasons to support this fear with no clear source.

    4s do the same with envy, which means they look inward & at their situation to constantly note what is missing or defective about them that others have. This is often more emotional/spiritual - not material things or specific talents, but others have love or others are fulfilling their potential, etc. Even if it's not true, the 4 will discount the meaningful stuff in their lives to justify the envy, or the idea that others have it better somehow.

    This feeling of "missing something" can result in a shame over who you are. That shame can give you social anxiety.


    I used to say I was timid when describing my shyness, but that word did not articulate the real source of it. I realized long ago that I do not fear or suspect others nor am I scared of their judgement - I withdraw because I am ashamed to be seen. It was my own sense of inadequacy, that I was not what I felt I should be, and that I had nothing to offer others that they'd value.

    Maybe that will ring a bell for you. So much self-help stuff frames everything in terms of fear, and it never really hit home for me. Learning enneagram helped me see shame as a core issue for me, and then all my own behaviors & motivations really fell into place. To ease my shyness, I tell myself I have something to offer people that is significant. Even better is what another INFP a told me - remember that YOU have the power to make OTHERS feel significant also. It's not about fear - it's shame over a sense of being some defective NOTHING who would just irritate people by existing. So there are no fears for me to calm, but instead I just need a bolstering of self-esteem when feeling shy & avoident of others & a more "noble cause" - to think beyond my own feeling & consider how my shyness looks like snobbery or disinterest in others.

    In a way, this makes shyness in 4s & 6s quite different, as 4s need to stop being hyper self-aware & consider the feelings of others, and 6s often need to stop being hyper-vigilant concerning others' reactions & "moves".
    Yes,I really agree with the bolded parts,I think I am rather suspicious of people and get very wary around strangers,but overall I think my motivation is shame,as I think I do my damn-est to hide my social anxiety because it something I am ashamed about.I also think it did in fact result from shame not fear of people,I am not afraid of people it's just extremely embarrassing and painful to see how awkward I am in comparison,that's why I tend to stay away from people,I don't want it thrown in my face again and again by my brain,when I am already all too aware.

    That last part really hit the spot,my anxiety is derived from excessive self-awareness/self-absorption,not so much on others motives,those don't worry me as much I can usually tell when others are out to hurt me and simply detach myself from them.When it comes to getting out of myself in terms of trying to considering others feelings,I am quite horrible I must admit,as I am not naturally aware of others.

Similar Threads

  1. Who am I?? INFP, ENFP or INTP??? Please help.
    By Ernesto in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 08-09-2009, 12:59 AM
  2. Am I an ENTP or an ENFP
    By G-Virus in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 80
    Last Post: 01-25-2009, 04:38 PM
  3. [MBTItm] Am I an ENTP or ENFP?
    By HeraldofHope in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 06-18-2008, 08:08 PM
  4. Am I a "J" or a "P"?
    By Lateralus in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 08-21-2007, 07:24 PM
  5. Am I a sensor or intuitive?
    By proteanmix in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 08-12-2007, 02:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO