Socionics Questionnaire, out of curiosity.

[Alea_iacta_est]

Went on PerC to check out things there, and decided to enter the "Socionics" type-me thread. As of right now, I am typed by a member (a sole member, though a respected one) there as LSI (Se-aux, even in Socionics, makes me laugh), which is completely preposterous to me. If any of you Socionics-oriented people want to have a go at it, here it is:

Personal concepts

1. What is beauty? What is love? Beauty is complexity that is ultimately simplistic. Life is beautiful, because it is a very simplistic and refined concept that is engineered by the most complicated and vast system of existence, existence. Disregarding "Baby don't hurt me", love is also beautiful. It possess the simplicity of adoring someone simply because you find them pleasurable while at the same time being manufactured by a host of variables from reactions inside of your brain to first-hand experiences with the person.

2. What are your most important values? Justice, Freedom (to build one's own structures), Mental Strength (not just intellect), Self-Awareness.

3. Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place? I do not believe in any deities or religions, but I have woven my own subjective take on the universe that could easily be considered spiritual.

4. Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you? War is necessary when in the defensive posture, when it is in the offensive position, it is entirely irrational, unless all diplomatic options have been exhausted. Militaries are needed to defend ourselves against an organized threat, and when all organized threats in the entire world are eliminated (which will never happen), they should be dissolved along with any controlling government. Power to me is information. Information and the withholding of information is what every event that has ever taken place on this planet, no matter how small, has been caused by.

Interests

5. What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why? I have had long conversations about many topics, but I revolve mostly around scientific theories, philosophy, current events, political ideologies, history, anything really (excepting pop culture and modern culture in general). My interests are primarily in sciences, philosophies, politics, mathematics, history, virtually the same as what I've had long conversations about. I enjoy these things because they stimulate the mind and allow me to explore probable outcomes to situations and take in outside information and viewpoints to be processed.

6. Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body? I'm not focused on my body at all. I am not particularly interested in health or medicine but I do enjoy learning about mental health and related fields.

7. What do you think of daily chores? Boring but necessary in the end.

8. Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome. I enjoy dramas with incredible tension and extremely complex plots mixed with a good deal of action. I enjoy Game of Thrones for this reason, though the tensions in that series could be higher (I'm not that far in, don't spoil anything).

9. What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why? I haven't cried in nearly 7-8 years, and all of the times I have cried were usually because of feelings of inferiority, which are mostly gone now. I smile when I'm learning new things and when I'm solving any sort of problem. It simply feels good to be working on something and doing something sometimes.

10. Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging? I don't particularly feel like I belong at all. I've always thought I was somehow different from everyone, and that if I allowed this difference to show on the outside that I would be constantly ridiculed and thrown aside, so I adapted.

Evaluation & Behaviour

11. What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself? People mostly see my weakness as being physical activity and coordination, which I also dislike about myself and wish I could change. I also don't like that I can't easily subject myself to do things that I deem unimportant or pointless.

12. What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself? People have told me that I am good at coming up with plans, good at spear-heading something, and that I'm good about finishing things on time (though I guarantee that if I found the work to be tedious and pointless that it will arrive at the very last second, but it will still be completely ready).

13. In what areas of your life would you like help? I mostly need help in finding ways to express my inner feelings and desires in a way that don't seem self-absorbed and blunt. [I think this line was what tripping the person up, I don't think I was in the right state of mind when I wrote this, I don't really think I need help in this and I don't particularly want help in this, I'm in much more need of help in diligence and physical observation.]

14. Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it. If I'm stuck in a rut, I'll usually get exceptionally angry and begin to try to find a direction to take as quickly as possible, letting decisions hang only delays the inevitable and wastes time. Might as well get it over with.

People & Interactions

15. What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with? I admire fairness, non-emotional attachment to their ideas and plans, reasonableness, understanding, and cooperation in others while I can't stand undeserved narcissism, undeserved belligerence, the inability to look forward, excessively strict adherence to and the love of pointless rules, and willing ignorance in others. Type-wise, I think I get along best with INTPs (when they aren't obsessing over pointless precision), some ENTPs, a very marginal amount of ENFJs, xSTPs (majority of which are ISTP), INFJs, and some ENTJs. [Also, that ISTP is supposed to be ESTP, but of course the other forum wouldn't let me edit that specific post to change anything and I noticed it after my edit post.]

16. How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner? I want understanding, warmth, intellect, and a sense of honor in my ideal partner. I think it is a mix between wanting to feel appreciated and wanting to be able to express my own love of a person safely.

17. If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why? My upmost concern for raising a child would be to make he or she think for themselves and not adopt the opinions of "authorities" or others without reaching the conclusion him or herself. I'm not sure exactly what measures I might take, but I'll figure it out eventually.

18. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction? My inward reaction would be a bit of a feeling a glee to the sight of the throwing down of the gauntlet, and I would gladly pick it up. I would outwardly try and debate the opposing argument assertively and mobilize as much substantial evidence as I can use to eliminate my friend's argument altogether and attempt to keep a detached angle at the same time.

19. Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one. I don't like society for the most part, and I think most people are somewhat weak and shallow. I consider the most prevalent problem of society to be a lack of foresight and a lack of independent thinking, it would seem that people immediately absorb what they are told and don't question the validity of what they have just adopted. It creates a hive-mind mentality that is unpleasant.

20. How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them? I choose my friends based on if I "click" with them or not. It simply just happens. I behave remarkably silly around them despite my serious personality that dominates my personality when I am not with them.

21. How do you behave around strangers? Nonchalantly and quietly. I don't really interact with them unless they pique my interest with an idea or assertion.

 

[á´…eparted]

I don't have time to read/comment at the moment (watching curling ), but I just wanted to say that I am an INTJ and an LSI. So it can happen. Se in MBTI, and Se in socionics are actually fairly different.

 

[valaki]

8. Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome. I enjoy dramas with incredible tension and extremely complex plots mixed with a good deal of action. I enjoy Game of Thrones for this reason, though the tensions in that series could be higher (I'm not that far in, don't spoil anything).

Fe?

11. What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself? People mostly see my weakness as being physical activity and coordination, which I also dislike about myself and wish I could change. I also don't like that I can't easily subject myself to do things that I deem unimportant or pointless.

NT ?

Se role?

13. In what areas of your life would you like help? I mostly need help in finding ways to express my inner feelings and desires in a way that don't seem self-absorbed and blunt. [I think this line was what tripping the person up, I don't think I was in the right state of mind when I wrote this, I don't really think I need help in this and I don't particularly want help in this, I'm in much more need of help in diligence and physical observation.]

Still sounds like Ti > Fe and NT

17. If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why? My upmost concern for raising a child would be to make he or she think for themselves and not adopt the opinions of "authorities" or others without reaching the conclusion him or herself. I'm not sure exactly what measures I might take, but I'll figure it out eventually.

Oooh alpha NT

18. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction? My inward reaction would be a bit of a feeling a glee to the sight of the throwing down of the gauntlet, and I would gladly pick it up. I would outwardly try and debate the opposing argument assertively and mobilize as much substantial evidence as I can use to eliminate my friend's argument altogether and attempt to keep a detached angle at the same time.

Do you really want to be ILE?

19. Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one. I don't like society for the most part, and I think most people are somewhat weak and shallow. I consider the most prevalent problem of society to be a lack of foresight and a lack of independent thinking, it would seem that people immediately absorb what they are told and don't question the validity of what they have just adopted. It creates a hive-mind mentality that is unpleasant.

Yay for alpha NT though maybe you want to be gamma NT instead?

20. How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them? I choose my friends based on if I "click" with them or not. It simply just happens. I behave remarkably silly around them despite my serious personality that dominates my personality when I am not with them.

alpha NT?

21. How do you behave around strangers? Nonchalantly and quietly. I don't really interact with them unless they pique my interest with an idea or assertion.

I thought you were going with ILE before and it still seems to fit kind of.

There were a few more things that I didn't bother to quote and which were in line with the above

It doesn't mean that the whole picture is clear and consistent, though. Just this is what I picked up on first reading. It's pretty superficial really, you could still be gamma NT too.

I don't see the LSI, btw.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

Fe?




NT ?

Se role?




Still sounds like Ti > Fe and NT




Oooh alpha NT




Do you really want to be ILE?




Yay for alpha NT though maybe you want to be gamma NT instead?




alpha NT?




I thought you were going with ILE before and it still seems to fit kind of.

There were a few more things that I didn't bother to quote and which were in line with the above

It doesn't mean that the whole picture is clear and consistent, though. Just this is what I picked up on first reading. It's pretty superficial really, you could still be gamma NT too.

I don't see the LSI, btw.

What I am really leaning toward is ILI, though I was objective as possible in this questionnaire. I know for certain that I am an irrational type and between the Alpha and Gamma Quadrant. I took a look at Reinen Dichotomies as well and have found myself to be a bit of a dynamic type. Any indication of introverted intuition in there? Methinks the leap that the person on PerC made was that he didn't see Ne or Ni and assumed Se.

 

[valaki]

What I am really leaning toward is ILI, though I was objective as possible in this questionnaire. I know for certain that I am an irrational type and between the Alpha and Gamma Quadrant. I took a look at Reinen Dichotomies as well and have found myself to be a bit of a dynamic type. Any indication of introverted intuition in there? Methinks the leap that the person on PerC made was that he didn't see Ne or Ni and assumed Se.

I had a feeling reading this questionnaire that you were considering ILI

Alpha and Gamma are really really opposite quadras.

I agree it's a bad way to try and type if you don't see the manifestation of one function and then assume that the person must be preferring the other one. No, prove first that they are actually preferring the other one.

Btw that stuff about you needing help with diligence, I'm not quite sure that Se-DS is supposed to typically manifest that way. I thought it was Se-role-ish in the case if you just feel the diligence stuff is something you should be like but your natural tendences are too much in conflict with it. Hard to explain eh. On that superficial level it was described, it could be Ni-ego just fine, I was just going by the ILE possibility there.

As for seeing Ni, socionics Ni specifically, no, I didn't see functions that much, same applyes to Ni, it was really too superficial, the questionnaire. Maybe in the answer about the rut sounded like Decisive Se/Ni type (14th one). But I'm not sure about that either.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

I had a feeling reading this questionnaire that you were considering ILI

Alpha and Gamma are really really opposite quadras.

I agree it's a bad way to try and type if you don't see the manifestation of one function and then assume that the person must be preferring the other one. No, prove first that they are actually preferring the other one.

Btw that stuff about you needing help with diligence, I'm not quite sure that Se-DS is supposed to typically manifest that way. I thought it was Se-role-ish in the case if you just feel the diligence stuff is something you should be like but your natural tendences are too much in conflict with it. Hard to explain eh. On that superficial level it was described, it could be Ni-ego just fine, I was just going by the ILE possibility there.

As for seeing Ni, socionics Ni specifically, no, I didn't see functions that much, same applyes to Ni, it was really too superficial, the questionnaire. Maybe in the answer about the rut sounded like Decisive Se/Ni type (14th one). But I'm not sure about that either.

I did figure out type relations, I got into a discussion on another person's Socionics thread so that we could bump that thread and attract more people and had a conversation about our relations to ESTPs (We figured we were close to the same type). Someone else commented on our conversations by saying that our relationship to ESTPs seemed like Semi-Duality or Duality.

 

[valaki]

I did figure out type relations, I got into a discussion on another person's Socionics thread so that we could bump that thread and attract more people and had a conversation about our relations to ESTPs (We figured we were close to the same type). Someone else commented on our conversations by saying that our relationship to ESTPs seemed like Semi-Duality or Duality.

That kind of reasoning bleeds from several wounds. Are they really ESTPs? Was that relationship really well analysed? Does that intertype relationships part of the theory work at least as reliably as the basic functions stuff?

Oh well, I'm just a skeptic about that ;P

Which discussion/thread was that btw?

 

[valaki]

I'm not saying you're not ILI, though.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

That kind of reasoning bleeds from several wounds. Are they really ESTPs? Was that relationship really well analysed? Does that intertype relationships part of the theory work at least as reliably as the basic functions stuff?

Oh well, I'm just a skeptic about that ;P

Which discussion/thread was that btw?

It's inherently obvious that they are ESTPs. Its ten times easier to figure out someone else's type (especially in person) rather than your own.

I assume you checked the thread I was talking about in the beginning, but it's the one that is "Someone who understands time"

 

[valaki]

It's inherently obvious that they are ESTPs. Its ten times easier to figure out someone else's type (especially in person) rather than your own.

I assume you checked the thread I was talking about in the beginning, but it's the one that is "Someone who understands time"

No, I didn't have time to figure out which thread you were talking about.

I disagree that it's easier to figure out someone else's type than your own. You have less information about the other person, you only have indirect information as you can't see into their minds directly (you can attempt this through deep interview but not in superficial communication). All that helps only with easy mistyping of someone else.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

No, I didn't have time to figure out which thread you were talking about.

I disagree that it's easier to figure out someone else's type than your own. You have less information about the other person, you only have indirect information as you can't see into their minds directly (you can attempt this through deep interview but not in superficial communication). All that helps only with easy mistyping of someone else.

That's what makes it easy. Given too much information, you are overwhelmed by data and can't discern a unified truth from it due to the mountains of it, but given just the perfect amount of information, you can figure out someone's type without the flood of information. It's essentially the same concept that Malcolm Gladwell talked about in his book "Blink", that the less information you have, the faster and more accurate you can act (A favorite story of mine from that book is about a hospital that kept on interviewing people who thought they had had heart attacks to see if they needed extensive care. As it turns out, the interviewing doctors were right only about 50-60% of the time, until one doctor showed up and proposed an algorithm that would allow doctors to screen a person without that much personal information. The doctors of course scoffed, how could a basic algorithm save more lives than they could with their interviews? When the algorithm was implemented, the doctors were right 90-97% of the time).

I have also begun digging into Model A, and I will see what I can figure out from it as well.

 

[valaki]

That's what makes it easy. Given too much information, you are overwhelmed by data and can't discern a unified truth from it due to the mountains of it, but given just the perfect amount of information, you can figure out someone's type without the flood of information. It's essentially the same concept that Malcolm Gladwell talked about in his book "Blink", that the less information you have, the faster and more accurate you can act (A favorite story of mine from that book is about a hospital that kept on interviewing people who thought they had had heart attacks to see if they needed extensive care. As it turns out, the interviewing doctors were right only about 50-60% of the time, until one doctor showed up and proposed an algorithm that would allow doctors to screen a person without that much personal information. The doctors of course scoffed, how could a basic algorithm save more lives than they could with their interviews? When the algorithm was implemented, the doctors were right 90-97% of the time).

The analogy - as analogies usually, IMO - is not good enough. The situation with the doctors is just so completely different from trying to type someone by MBTI. That situation deals with a decision that's a lot more objective, for one. The one relevant part would be getting stuck on ambiguous pieces of data, though, so for that your analogy works.

I'm not saying that you necessarily need a lot of information to do this task, just that when you have little information, it's more likely that all of it consists of irrelevant data. Or, even if relevant, it can be interpreted in too many ways, too ambiguous. And sure, with a lot of information, you might get stuck on the ambiguous pieces of data. However, more data allows you to see if your original guesses were right or if there's something wrong with the idea.

Try and see.

I have also begun digging into Model A, and I will see what I can figure out from it as well.

Why do you care about digging into a more complex system if you feel too much information is no good? Not just nitpicking, this really just doesn't make sense. Socionics' model is just going to confuse you with this approach.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

Why do you care about digging into a more complex system if you feel too much information is no good? Not just nitpicking, this really just doesn't make sense. Socionics' model is just going to confuse you with this approach.

Because I have too little information about the actual system and too much information about myself.