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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Ni is about considering streams of information, Ti is about actually picking it apart and refining it down. The seem similar on the surface, but Ti is paired with Se or Ne, and as such that information will be expanded upon quite a lot and back and forth Ti is much more detailed oriented and making sure information streams are precise. Ni is not big on preciceness. It's passed with Fe or Te which compares that information to external stores to see what matches.
    Uhh I guess I don't do much about streams of information then. Is that more characteristic of Ni doms as compared to Ni auxes?

    I nitpick in the Ti way easily. Pick shit apart. I like preciseness of concepts. However I also like to "see" deep and I thought that was the Ni part. My internal mind is really weird sometimes and I can only describe it as a mix of Ti and Ni in the background . Or sometimes it's Ti in the background And I don't know what else. A lot of shit surfaces at times. :P


    Well, I care about group harmony a lot. In groups I want everyone to get along, and in a perfect world, be friends. It does make me uncomfortable if there is tension or if people don't mix. However, the latter bothers me for personal reasons, not because of others. Ultimately, I want the group to get along because it the most efficient and logical way to be. It simply makes sense, and because of that I am very calculated with setting that.
    I don't really understand the idea about people getting along == efficient and logical. To me people getting along is just a good thing, Feeling-wise. As long as I am in the mood to care :P Sometimes I do care.

    I cannot begin to understand how some people - like you - try to make sense of feelings in a logical way. (I'm not saying that's bad or anything of course.) I mean I can do it in the setting of a detached psychological theory and I do enjoy analysis there but not in real life. In real life, feelings and emotions just "are". The most I do is determine their source and that's easy usually. So really I don't do a lot of analysis of feelings and/or emotions.

    Btw what you described is also a bit reminiscent of Ti-lead / Fe-suggestive in Socionics right? I guess our Socionics types differ so that could explain this too.

  2. #52
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Uhh I guess I don't do much about streams of information then. Is that more characteristic of Ni doms as compared to Ni auxes?

    I nitpick in the Ti way easily. Pick shit apart. I like preciseness of concepts. However I also like to "see" deep and I thought that was the Ni part. My internal mind is really weird sometimes and I can only describe it as a mix of Ti and Ni in the background . Or sometimes it's Ti in the background And I don't know what else. A lot of shit surfaces at times. :P

    I don't really understand the idea about people getting along == efficient and logical. To me people getting along is just a good thing, Feeling-wise. As long as I am in the mood to care :P Sometimes I do care.

    I cannot begin to understand how some people - like you - try to make sense of feelings in a logical way. (I'm not saying that's bad or anything of course.) I mean I can do it in the setting of a detached psychological theory and I do enjoy analysis there but not in real life. In real life, feelings and emotions just "are". The most I do is determine their source and that's easy usually. So really I don't do a lot of analysis of feelings and/or emotions.

    Btw what you described is also a bit reminiscent of Ti-lead / Fe-suggestive in Socionics right? I guess our Socionics types differ so that could explain this too.

    It takes a loooooooooong time to understand the functions. Took me years. Even now I am still learning and redefining how and what they are.

    I nitpick the shit apart too, but Ti is a shadow for me as well. For me it's sort of a combination of Fi and Te that I used to nitpick things. Very hard to explain, but it's how mine works.

    Well, I understand feelings are not always logical, but I try anyway. I absolutely try and determine their source, because that can actually say something about the logic of it. I do it all the time. But, I seek to understand people. I have to as it allows me to navigate the world correctly.

    As far as socionics, I believe so. I am not as good with that system, but within it I know I am LSI which is a Ti lead so yes. Remember these theories only capture a small portion of our personality, so it will never be a perfect fit.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
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    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    It takes a loooooooooong time to understand the functions. Took me years. Even now I am still learning and redefining how and what they are.

    I nitpick the shit apart too, but Ti is a shadow for me as well. For me it's sort of a combination of Fi and Te that I used to nitpick things. Very hard to explain, but it's how mine works.
    How do you use Fi to nitpick shit?

    Did Fi easily make sense to you? None of the Fi function definitions do, for me.


    Well, I understand feelings are not always logical, but I try anyway. I absolutely try and determine their source, because that can actually say something about the logic of it. I do it all the time. But, I seek to understand people. I have to as it allows me to navigate the world correctly.
    I'm just curious but give me an example of how you make sense of a feeling logically?

  4. #54
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    How do you use Fi to nitpick shit?

    Did Fi easily make sense to you? None of the Fi function definitions do, for me.

    I'm just curious but give me an example of how you make sense of a feeling logically?
    Well, it's really Te that does it, but Fi helps with it. Fi deals with values and rules that have been internally derived. Life experience has allowed me to create an inner storage of moral codes and what not that I follow and feel everyone else should follow. As well as ethics, and stuff. They get refined and changed by Te a lot over time but it sits as an internal refrence. I'll take information and show it that, and if it matches it goes, if it doesn't it gets rejected. Fi is often associated with feelings and emotions, and by and large it is, but it doesn't always have to be. Fi is a lower process for me so I don't use it very much. Only when I need to or I get tired. Have you seen the new alice in wonderland? One of my favorite movies ever! Alice in that movie is an excellent definition of what Fi is and how shows. People tend to assume that Fi is devoid of logic, it's not.

    Hmm. I'll use myself as an example. If I feel something, I determine the source of where it comes from. I will then thing of the events that could have triggered it. Then see if those series of events should logically lead to the emotion I am experiencing. I ask myself if it makes sense. Is there solid ground for how it feels and is it valid. I do the same for others as well. Figure out what leads to it and see if there is logic to them experiencing it.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Well, it's really Te that does it, but Fi helps with it. Fi deals with values and rules that have been internally derived. Life experience has allowed me to create an inner storage of moral codes and what not that I follow and feel everyone else should follow. As well as ethics, and stuff. They get refined and changed by Te a lot over time but it sits as an internal refrence. I'll take information and show it that, and if it matches it goes, if it doesn't it gets rejected. Fi is often associated with feelings and emotions, and by and large it is, but it doesn't always have to be. Fi is a lower process for me so I don't use it very much. Only when I need to or I get tired. Have you seen the new alice in wonderland? One of my favorite movies ever! Alice in that movie is an excellent definition of what Fi is and how shows. People tend to assume that Fi is devoid of logic, it's not.
    Ah, I see, well, yeah I don't at all relate to this Fi stuff. Imagining this rigid moralistic stuff just makes me want to tear my hair out :P

    I'm not trying to say that it can't have some advantage if I had/used Fi more.

    Anyway I was really asking about how this Fi/Te nitpicking differs from Ti nitpicking. If you mean it analyzes stuff based on this value system, well I don't do that. I just analyze based on logic.

    Now to stay with the ENTJ idea, you could say this is just a really unconscious and repressed Fi eh?

    (And no, I haven't seen that movie :/)


    Hmm. I'll use myself as an example. If I feel something, I determine the source of where it comes from. I will then thing of the events that could have triggered it. Then see if those series of events should logically lead to the emotion I am experiencing. I ask myself if it makes sense. Is there solid ground for how it feels and is it valid. I do the same for others as well. Figure out what leads to it and see if there is logic to them experiencing it.
    How do you determine if it's logical to experience it, given the source is known?

    I think I leave out that step, if I feel an emotion then it doesn't need to be validated. It just is. I'm really rather uninhibited about that

    Also, my view on this is that when you feel an emotion it's always "logical" because clearly it happened for some reason, and if you don't understand then it's just that you don't understand YET, your unconscious issues contributing/leading to the emotion. Really, if I was to say it's not logical I would be questioning the way my brain works. I would be forcing some unrealistic value system on myself and that's not my thing.

    I'm not saying that this is the "best way" to deal with an emotion, it does have drawbacks Anyway what works for me is understanding my unconscious instead of rejecting the emotion as not being "logical".

  6. #56
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    @Hard Any luck or did I get too deep with my question (about logically experiencing emotions)?

    I know I said Fi makes no sense to me but the fact that I don't need to validate my emotions in any logical fashion whatsoever makes me wonder about ESFP. :P And that type still has Se+Te :P

    I would be a weird one though, one with the "shadow side" (I just mean the tertiary/inferior here, which is INTJ for me) somewhat integrated. And then I do still relate to Ti, in some way.

    Any thoughts by anyone?

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