My Enneagram type? - I think I know my Freudian triad?

[valaki]

Pretty much that. Yeah.

Actually, I was working full time in a fast food restaurant and was pretty much chained to the table during the lunch rush. It was stressful (I had just graduated high school, where I was used to doing nothing, slowly) and made me feel "trapped" which set of an extreme sense of avoidance. And then I just got really nervous all the time and thought I was going batshit (I'm not normally nervous).

No, I'm OK now. It was just an adjustment issue and there was no disorder.

Ah, interesting...

When I first read about the function, I ID'd with Ti/Fe right away. Everyone else tried to persuade me I was an Fi user because I write with "conviction" and believe in things like treating others equally. When I read about Fi online, I was like OMG, I'm Fi-dom. I do fit their little blurbs about "seeing humanity in everyone, including criminals".

Then I realized we're looking at cognitive processes here, not descriptions, and certainly NOT philosophies. I can tell you that my Ti is great at finding underlying principles. I would guess Fi would be similar, except regarding other people and/or ethics. Which functions do you relate to, though?

I relate to Ti/Fe, recognized those functions right away just like you. As a contrast, Ne/Si vs Se/Ni, I didn't understand them at all for a long time so that was hard to decide. (Well Se was easy to understand but it seemed too simple as a definition but apparently it's just hard to imagine for me that some people are simply not thinking much in the way of Se.)


I was seen as Fi by some because of things like the following:

I was creating chaos in someone else's rigid theory so he first said I had to be ESTP then apparently I annoyed him enough so that he said I had to be ESFP lol. No I didn't take that too seriously, just mentioning it as an example.

Not readily agreeing with someone else's views on a theory. (This wasn't the same person as above)

When responding to a type questionnaire, I was being short, not giving any kind of objective reasoning for my choices for my answers. I saw it as just simply not bothering with that. Actually, it was asking about lots of simple life related things and indeed I don't think through stuff in those situations, I just act etc.

Someone also said I "vibed" SeFi. (That was socionics actually so nevermind)

I am also seen as very direct and expecting just such an answer in return, seems like several people associate that with Te-doms.

The first two cases I find really silly, why couldn't two Ti types disagree? It actually happens a lot between Ti's I think

The being direct thing I don't think is exclusive to Te.

The only one that got me thinking was definitions that say that Fi doesn't need much reasoning to make decisions because they are well aware of what they want/desire. That is true for me, I often do this quickly from instinct. But really there is nothing else I relate to about Fi so whatever. For the sake of being open-minded, I still have the ESFP option in the list in my profile if you saw that.


I will admit that I don't relate to all that sort of Fi stuff like "seeing humanity in everyone, including criminals". I mean I'm sure it's cool but I'm just not like that. :/ The equality stuff I relate to on some level, but why's that Fi, it could be Fe just fine!

Go by the triads.

As soon as they can explain everything, sure.

Well, there can just be this wall of "I'm not going to listen to you even if I nod and smile" and my roommate would simply stick her nose in the air and refuse to engage. She was a shit head.

Heh I don't do this sort of thing at all. I hate it when someone does it to me.

So wall is only in the sense of blocking others out of my "inside". And sometimes in a physical sense as well. But I don't like to ignore people who want to talk or something.

That's great...where was it?

PersonalityNation and I think that site died afterwards :/

Every type me thread I've ever done, people have told me I'm a 6w7. No matter what I say. To me, that just sounds...weird.

Did they not try to use some reasoning for it? The vibe stuff is quite misleading I think.

Yeah, it seems to me they describe an off-the-wall multitalented person who can't settle down in life...which I am. They leave out the optimism (I suck at optimism) and that whole "you're OK, I'm OK" thing (I live in a state of hatred towards everything, including myself). Can be permissive, though. LOL.

Permissive what?

The bolded... is totally me too

As for sucking at optimism, do you wake up in the morning thinking this day is going to be shit? I don't so I relate to the optimism somewhat.

Consider social in your stacking, then. The instincts are the hardest part to figure out, most of what you hear online is shady at best, and I'm still not sure I understand them.

Riso and Hudson do the best job, so consider their words on the matter.

I currently type as sx/soc, though I'm open to considering soc/sx since I can really ruminate about people when lost in social affairs. However, sexual-first issues seem to have caused me the most pain in my life, so I am inclined to keep that.

Well for me Sx and So both caused a lot of issues. Sp never causes issues, I have an easy and natural focus on Sp needs when needed. I can't say it's a constant focus though But it's important in a sense.

She doesn't get it that it matters when people ostracize you, for instance. She'll say things like, Just be who you are and everyone will accept you!! That's a lovely thought, but not how the world works. She also doesn't care much about what's happening in the world--no sense of community involvement. She likes staying in and reading fantasies and murder mysteries and only turns on the news for events like 9-11. She's a 9w1, which may influence it, but my step-father is 9w1 as well, and he's always getting upset about workplace politics and what's happening in the news. He's one of those anti-social socials--he hates everyone and just bitches and moans all the time.

Yeah I'm not like her at all. I find news interesting when I do bother to read them. You talk about the Arab Spring later, I find that phenomenon fascinating too, etc. Doesn't mean though that I think very often about all this because I don't.

Well just this, I don't have community involvement much in practice. I'm just sort of interested but I just don't "do" it for some reason. When I said I did things for people in a community, that was also done in a way without really ever getting "mixed with" the community. I thought they were cute and I got lots of admiration but I just did nothing with any of that. I really got this distinct outsider quality. I do still have a keen sense for noting hierarchy related things, just I don't act on it much.

Perhaps if some people actively tried hard enough to draw me in, it would be different. I don't know. It happened before and I really enjoyed the participation in terms of superficial interacting at least but when it was gone I wasn't thinking about it again on my own, not for a while I mean. Not much until I turned 13 What I'm more aware of is the issues themselves, since I aged a bit. And I sometimes think I'm missing out on a lot. (4-ish? 7-ish? Lol) As I said I like interacting with people for fun and whatnot, so that's part of it. But when e.g. I'm talking to people in groups, either online or offline, I talk to each person as a different and interesting being. I attribute that to Sx being stronger than So.

Btw, I once read this question along these lines: "what would you do if you suddenly became immortal and then something killed everyone on Earth, how would you spend the remaining two billion years before Earth gets swallowed up by the Sun?" Haha, I don't normally try to imagine unrealistic scenarios in detail but for some reason this took my interest. It would be interesting But I see that some people would just go totally apeshit alone...? Not that it wouldn't be better if I had some people to talk to, do stuff with, etc. Also, two billion years is a fucking lot of time so I couldn't imagine life much further than a few hundred or thousand years before I gave up on the thought experiment

What does all that sound like about So, then?

You could also look for your "blindspot"--ie, your crap instinct.

That would be So in a sense. In another sense the Sp instinct because I don't focus on it all the time that much.

Can't there be something like, switching between Sx/Sp and Sx/So? lol that could describe me

Well one of the criticisms of enneagram is that it makes us all out to have something wrong with us, when actually, most of us don't. If you're content with your current levels of mental health, I'd say there is no particular need to "grow".

No, not content.

Don't misunderstand me - I'm basically fine with myself, just I want to solve some specific issues that tend to come up in my life. That's why I said not content.

It means like talking your way out of trouble rather than strong arming your way through things.

Ah I see. Well I don't relate to the charming my way out of trouble at all, only to strong arming my way through Either physically or by using logic.

Yeah, I guess others are just vaguely part of the background, or an abstraction. It doesn't reach full-on levels of dehumanization till you go unhealthy, though.

You describe that well Do you have that? I assume you do? And at the same time believing in humanity in criminals etc? I'm not nitpicking or questioning your views, I just have these questions come up naturally when something doesn't make sense to me. And so I'm curious how the two go together (If you even relate to objectification as defined here)

Anyway I wanted to say that I liked your wording here, "vaguely part of the background". Recently I saw some site with a gallery of empty city photos. I thought they were nice. Then I saw the description and the comments. The description said, the point of the photos is to show how different cities are when there is at most one person in the photo. In the comments some people said it was so scary that they couldn't go on to view the entire gallery Lol, I thought that was weird because to me it was exactly the same in the photos as in everyday life. I live in a big city, I've been to some of the biggest cities etc. So, yeah... I thought that was a good example of the above about your background comment lol

Well sure, you can still enjoy learning and stuff. Most human beings do. I consider myself to be a "smart" kid, too--same family situation, spent years taking overloaded classes in college cause I'm so interested in EVERYTHING.

I'm afraid I was not as diligent with it as you are I did everything mandatory and did well but extra classes?

Maybe your Ne makes you even more intellectually inclined.

Well, I do consider myself to be anti-intellectual, but more in the sense of impractical people who don't "get" life and spend all day splitting hairs. I like learning and exploring, but when I was in college and studying the Middle East, I was subject to years of reading about Egyptian cinema in the 1930s. Then I went to the middle East, and I was just like, WHYYYY??? WHY did I spend the last 3 years studying this???

I saw that the Arab Gulf was vital to transnational affairs in the region and beyond, and that the whole region was filled with well-educated, well-connected, BORED young people. And I went to the university and told them my insights. For this, my ideas were rejected and I was laughed out of grad school--because I didn't split hairs but instead saw the reality. Then, two years later, the Arab Spring happened. I was like LOL.

So, that's the kind of intellectualism that bothers me--folks who don't see reality and instead sit in an ivory tower; these people are called on to advise policy makers. Just LOL.

Eh, yeah I hate that sort of stuff too. Btw it's pretty cool you managed to anticipate some of that stuff.

TBH, I don't know. I just know that the 2 are associated; 7s often have an issue with the mother not being "nurturing" enough somehow.

No I just had that problem with travels. I forced the needed nurturing for myself otherwise. Don't get me wrong, my mother was happy to spend time on things for me or spend time with me in the way I needed it but it felt like I had to force some of it to happen more often. Make any sense?

I think it could be in there, yeah. I don't know you well enough to comment beyond that. The surest thing you can do is to examine motivations--are you motivated by 3ish stuff? I'd expect there to be a 2-connection if you're an 8, but the 4 is harder to explain.

I was actually asking if it was excluding a 3-fix. What I said about my motivations for achieving goals, wasn't that helping any?

How do I examine my motivations deeper than that? Btw I found&downloaded Naranjo ebook just now (Didn't find Maitri yet) Maybe that'll help too.

Yeah, again, you may indeed be 4-fixed--examine motivations.

I do find it important to be unique, I just really don't do anything to be unique, I just am. I also don't relate to building identity out of emotions. I'm simply not emotional enough for that.

I would love to be able to have an identity like 4's can, but I don't have the focus here often enough or long enough. I like other people who are like that (4-ish), though.

Well that's all for 4 motivations I think. Enough for a 4-fix?

As to the sx7s inner life, Naranjo lists them as being "extraterrestrial" in their conceptualizations. Far out stuff man. I don't quite know what it means, but I'm thinking kinda hippie. They are prone to heightened imagination and can "juice" their own emotions similar to 4s. As I experience this side of my personality, there's a lot of epic, Hollywood-style stuff that goes on.

I don't relate to "far out stuff" and "hippie stuff". I can't "juice" my emotions much. I have little control over them in this sense, I used to be able to create one certain deep emotion but it was rare and I haven't done it in a while for some reason. I do think that was 4-ish and not 7-ish though. It was not optimistic or "juicy" or anything.

Don't forget 9s regarding the inner-world as well. You should draw influences from our 9 as well.

I have no idea about what 9's inner world is like...?

Yeah, a number of 8s have had similar gripes about descriptions from what I understand. It's like no one finds a representative population, so they base their studies on dictators and Enron execs and try to report this stuff as though it's normal and common.

Lol yeah

I also thought it's maybe just me thinking black and white about these concepts. I certainly have such a tendency to interpret things in such a way.

I'm 6-fixed, worry about "alienating people", and spent the majority of my youth in my 5-connection, I think, so I'm pretty reserved about anger till you get to know me. But yeah. I expect people will hate me once they see what a tempermental headcase I am. I'm always surprised how forgiving and sympathetic others can actually be.

I'm not at all reserved about my anger, doesn't matter if you know me or not. The only thing I managed to learn to be "reserved" about is outright raging. I still do it, I just leave/hide first. Unless in a relationship, you see, why should I hide there? So much for growing up enough to build a socially proper persona eh

How do you control expression of your anger when you're with people you don't know yet?

As for experience of forgiving and sympathetic people, I'm afraid I have been less lucky than you, experienced less of that myself or I just didn't notice it enough.

Well that's my position. We're social animals, and it's in our nature to band together. We won't get very far if we're overly individualistic.

That's not actually my position per se, my position is more looking at it from how it's more efficient for survival of the individuals, genes, whatnot.

I don't really believe in expressions like "natural to band together" and "overly individualistic".

Instead I believe one can still live totally alone if they wish (or perhaps with their loved one(s)), they'd just have to abandon much of what the society of the current world offers. So in that sense, sure, that person wouldn't get "very far". It doesn't mean the person can't live that way though.

But for most people it's worth living inside society for certain material advantages (such as better survival, yeah). Also I view it this way, life is more complex inside society, and that's, well, entertaining, as I do like opportunities and variety to an extent. And I like interaction so that too is an advantage. I'm sure there's other advantages too, like this social sense of grouping together that you expressed as "band together". Hey I did say I was individualistic right? I wonder if that's a crappy social instinct still...

Embarrassed, really, about wimping on stuff--though I was unaware of it till the enneagram pointed it out to me. I had all this time to build a case for why I'm precisely NOT an 8, so now it's just really hard to accept. (It was one of the 3 types I initially identified with).

OK just to be sure we are on the same page, what do you mean by wimping exactly? I think I know but just to be sure.

The adaptations for others are largely OK, since you get along to go along--let's not be foolish.

Foolish meaning someone "not getting along to go along"? Do you mean useful compromises?

My problem is, I feel like I'm deceiving others.

Well I see it as it being their problem if they go by stereotypes. It's not your responsibility to worry about that I think

It isn't deceit if your intention isn't that. Also.. you can always put a disclaimer in profile/signature that you don't fit the stupid stereotypes.

Oh ocean moonshine...

haha

As to the 4 and 5 thing, I should prolly reiterate I spent literally years trying to decide which was most "me". It might have helped if I'd had other source material besides Wisdom of the Enneagram, since I frankly don't see 4 at all in Helen Palmer's work, and 5 barely.

But yeah. I'm too aware of all the ways I've taken things too personally, been self-conscious, been too identified with my own suffering, and whatnot--pretty much every stereotype of 4ness. I figured out I was too dramatic to be a core 5, plus I am a reactive type. So that gave me 4. However, I've never understood identifying oneself by one's emotions. I sort of gave up on that and just assumed I was somehow a 4w5 when I came here.

Basically, I had no reason to question being a 4 with an 8-fix till I read the finer points of Helen Palmer and Naranjo and didn't identify...basically I just assumed they didn't know what they were talking about and continued with my typing.

THEN I read Maitri. She's supposedly the top of the field so when I didn't relate to anything about her 4, I basically realized I wasn't one. Throughout her book, I did basically the same exercises listed in the questionnaire I published, and looking at it, it all suggested nothing other than 8. Looking over past journals, I saw that there was also a strong 7 influence of trying to avoid boring things and pretending I'm OK when I'm not (even if I don't identify with this as written, that's clearly what's been motivating me) as well as this 9ish sense of "I don't matter, I'm nothing, no one cares". Given that I'm a reactive type, I had to go with the 8 as the core--the parts are all in place.

I just think it's funny, that's all. I'd have said I had a million more pressing problems than excessive behavior, lust, and other 8-monikers. I know the ways I can do this stuff, but other parts of me just feel worse.

So yeah. That's that story.

Self-conscious in what sense? Is that some 4-ish thing? Strangely enough, I understand what it means identifying by your emotions, I just can't do it.

Hmm taking things personally, I can do that quite easily but I thought that wasn't exclusive to 4. Apparently, unhealthier 8's do it too, sensitive to being "slighted".

Avoiding boring things = Ne-dom?

Was that Maitri's first book of the two?

What kind of exercises are you referring to? Just answering the questions and pondering over the answers or do you mean something else?

I don't know if I should envy you that you don't have the 8's problems as bad, the stuff you listed here, I do have problems with it all. Though it's fine by default, it only makes me feel shit if it causes other issues in life. Apart from the 8-related issues, only 7-related issues can have that result.

 

[valaki]

Hmmm more on the instincts ... I saw this write up before that has pictures of each instinct. I find the Sp ones terribly boring. Sx, So okayish, but Sp, meh
The only notable thing about the Sp instinct is that I can easily sort those needs so I thought it was my 2nd instinct. If it's true that the 2nd one causes the least trouble

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

I relate to Ti/Fe, recognized those functions right away just like you. As a contrast, Ne/Si vs Se/Ni, I didn't understand them at all for a long time so that was hard to decide. (Well Se was easy to understand but it seemed too simple as a definition but apparently it's just hard to imagine for me that some people are simply not thinking much in the way of Se.)

I was seen as Fi by some because of things like the following:

I was creating chaos in someone else's rigid theory so he first said I had to be ESTP then apparently I annoyed him enough so that he said I had to be ESFP lol. No I didn't take that too seriously, just mentioning it as an example.

Not readily agreeing with someone else's views on a theory. (This wasn't the same person as above)

When responding to a type questionnaire, I was being short, not giving any kind of objective reasoning for my choices for my answers. I saw it as just simply not bothering with that. Actually, it was asking about lots of simple life related things and indeed I don't think through stuff in those situations, I just act etc.

Someone also said I "vibed" SeFi. (That was socionics actually so nevermind)

I am also seen as very direct and expecting just such an answer in return, seems like several people associate that with Te-doms.

The first two cases I find really silly, why couldn't two Ti types disagree? It actually happens a lot between Ti's I think

The being direct thing I don't think is exclusive to Te.

The only one that got me thinking was definitions that say that Fi doesn't need much reasoning to make decisions because they are well aware of what they want/desire. That is true for me, I often do this quickly from instinct. But really there is nothing else I relate to about Fi so whatever. For the sake of being open-minded, I still have the ESFP option in the list in my profile if you saw that.

Yeah, I'm fully convinced that you can't really tell what people are online, at least not by their word choice and whatnot. According to some, I'm plainly Ne-dom. According to others, I don't "vibe" that way at all. You know my Fi story. Dumb that being direct makes you "Te"by default.

I will admit that I don't relate to all that sort of Fi stuff like "seeing humanity in everyone, including criminals". I mean I'm sure it's cool but I'm just not like that. :/ The equality stuff I relate to on some level, but why's that Fi, it could be Fe just fine!

Yeah, your philosophical beliefs are not necessarily cognition-dependent. Your cognitive processes are your ways of reasoning, and the Feeling functions are sort of "social" or interpersonal reasoning. I know for a fact my way of doing it is to appeal to manners and customs, rather than look inside to reference others in relation to my inner framework. I do tend to test highly on the function, however.

As soon as they can explain everything, sure.

They explain me fairly well, actually. That's one reason I recommend it, entirely subjective.

Heh I don't do this sort of thing at all. I hate it when someone does it to me.

So wall is only in the sense of blocking others out of my "inside". And sometimes in a physical sense as well. But I don't like to ignore people who want to talk or something.

That's good. It's rude as fuck.

Did they not try to use some reasoning for it? The vibe stuff is quite misleading I think.

Yeah, but it was bad reasoning, at times based on a poor grasp of the material...and at others failing to see the real picture.

Like someone insisted I was 1-fixed because I have a lot of "superego" messages--missing the fact that I was solidly focusing on the present moment and making the most of my circumstances, rather than worrying about how things "should" be. Another person insisted I was 9w8-fixed, because "it's the 9w8s that get physically angry"--which is a misinterpretation of a side note of the 9w8 description on Typewatch.

The 7 makes sense--I've got issues with frustration, entrapment, and stagnation. But they were neglecting the fact that I was saying I was a total loner who was incapable of reaching out to others, that I'm bitter and NOT personable, that I don't feel confident revealing my fears to others, and that I resent others trying to "protect" me. These things do NOT speak to a 6 core, much less a 6w7 core. They were rationalizing it with things like, "No, you're just a really HEALTHY 6", "Sixes don't know they're 6s", and "You're just really counterphobic".

Some of it did make sense--I do see things that'll go wrong and can catastrophize...but that does not a core 6 make.

Permissive what?

Well I live in a country where there's a significant number of war criminals, prostitutes, and pedophiles. I don't ask questions or hurl accusations as some foreigners are wont to do. I certainly won't go hounding others or making assumptions, or even telling local people about how I'm "morally superior" to them. People go their way, I go mine. If I saw an abuse happening with my own two eyes, I might do something...but I'm sure as heck no armchair moralist. Many consider this attitude permissive.

The bolded... is totally me too

We'll never grow up!!

As for sucking at optimism, do you wake up in the morning thinking this day is going to be shit? I don't so I relate to the optimism somewhat.

Barring something like a major speech I'm terrified of, I actually don't. I usually wake up and either focus on my tasks, or else bounce around thinking of random things to do. Maybe I'm more optimistic than I thought--but I tend to get feedback to the contrary because I do point out the dark side of things.

Well for me Sx and So both caused a lot of issues. Sp never causes issues, I have an easy and natural focus on Sp needs when needed. I can't say it's a constant focus though But it's important in a sense.

Ugh, all my instincts cause me issues. But my sp seems to be the thing that lapses out on me at times--like jogging through a park at 3 am because there are no robbers running around, right??

Well just this, I don't have community involvement much in practice. I'm just sort of interested but I just don't "do" it for some reason. When I said I did things for people in a community, that was also done in a way without really ever getting "mixed with" the community. I thought they were cute and I got lots of admiration but I just did nothing with any of that. I really got this distinct outsider quality. I do still have a keen sense for noting hierarchy related things, just I don't act on it much.

Yeah, mingling can be hard.

Perhaps if some people actively tried hard enough to draw me in, it would be different. I don't know. It happened before and I really enjoyed the participation in terms of superficial interacting at least but when it was gone I wasn't thinking about it again on my own, not for a while I mean. Not much until I turned 13 What I'm more aware of is the issues themselves, since I aged a bit. And I sometimes think I'm missing out on a lot. (4-ish? 7-ish? Lol) As I said I like interacting with people for fun and whatnot, so that's part of it. But when e.g. I'm talking to people in groups, either online or offline, I talk to each person as a different and interesting being. I attribute that to Sx being stronger than So.

Same. Especially the bolded--I have huge fears of missing out and camaraderie means a lot to me, and I feel sad that I never seemed to partake of it in my life. And what you say at the end there seems sx-first to me--chemistry.

Btw, I once read this question along these lines: "what would you do if you suddenly became immortal and then something killed everyone on Earth, how would you spend the remaining two billion years before Earth gets swallowed up by the Sun?" Haha, I don't normally try to imagine unrealistic scenarios in detail but for some reason this took my interest. It would be interesting But I see that some people would just go totally apeshit alone...? Not that it wouldn't be better if I had some people to talk to, do stuff with, etc. Also, two billion years is a fucking lot of time so I couldn't imagine life much further than a few hundred or thousand years before I gave up on the thought experiment

I think I'd trek around the world and see all the natural wonders. I wouldn't go apeshit, but I'd be sad anyway.

What does all that sound like about So, then?

I'm not exactly sure, to tell the truth.

That would be So in a sense. In another sense the Sp instinct because I don't focus on it all the time that much.

Can't there be something like, switching between Sx/Sp and Sx/So? lol that could describe me

I don't think they can switch, but you could have strong Sx-first and about equally low sp and soc.

No, not content.

Don't misunderstand me - I'm basically fine with myself, just I want to solve some specific issues that tend to come up in my life. That's why I said not content.

Gotcha.

Ah I see. Well I don't relate to the charming my way out of trouble at all, only to strong arming my way through Either physically or by using logic.

LOL, I do relate to the charm, actually, although this is apparently an ENTP thing also. We talk our way into and out of things.

You describe that well Do you have that? I assume you do? And at the same time believing in humanity in criminals etc? I'm not nitpicking or questioning your views, I just have these questions come up naturally when something doesn't make sense to me. And so I'm curious how the two go together (If you even relate to objectification as defined here)

Sure. I wasn't sooper aware of doing this before or anything--not until major life crises hit and me and my own survival became the only thing on my mind. Simply, nothing is important to me as I am, and everything else is just some sort of backdrop to be dealt with expediently. Including other humans. I'm simply too preoccupied by myself to care. I had to be pushed into this state, though.

I don't see it as being discordant with the "Fi beliefs" as I call them. That's a philosophical ideal, not necessarily my functioning reality. I understand that if I were in another's place, I'd probably do the same thing in many circumstances, so I refrain from judgement. It doesn't mean I wouldn't fight if people did something bad to me--I can be quite unforgiving that way. Yeah, what goes on inside my head within the sanctuary of my own home doesn't necessarily reflect my way of dealing with the outside world, that's all. Two separate spheres. Feel free to ask anything.

Anyway I wanted to say that I liked your wording here, "vaguely part of the background". Recently I saw some site with a gallery of empty city photos. I thought they were nice. Then I saw the description and the comments. The description said, the point of the photos is to show how different cities are when there is at most one person in the photo. In the comments some people said it was so scary that they couldn't go on to view the entire gallery Lol, I thought that was weird because to me it was exactly the same in the photos as in everyday life. I live in a big city, I've been to some of the biggest cities etc. So, yeah... I thought that was a good example of the above about your background comment lol

LOL, what an interesting exhibit! Thanks for sharing.

I'm afraid I was not as diligent with it as you are I did everything mandatory and did well but extra classes?

Maybe your Ne makes you even more intellectually inclined.

I think that's what it is. To others it seemed like a burden, but to me it was one fascinating flow of information after the next. Apparently ENTPs have difficulty with this, too (though I've met those who would passionately deny this).

Eh, yeah I hate that sort of stuff too. Btw it's pretty cool you managed to anticipate some of that stuff.

Yeah, that's why my tritype is "The Truth Teller".

No I just had that problem with travels. I forced the needed nurturing for myself otherwise. Don't get me wrong, my mother was happy to spend time on things for me or spend time with me in the way I needed it but it felt like I had to force some of it to happen more often. Make any sense?

Well, it wasn't in my experience exactly, but yeah, I can understand.

I was actually asking if it was excluding a 3-fix. What I said about my motivations for achieving goals, wasn't that helping any?

Well somewhat--I don't think a 3-fix is necessarily out of the question, but just being driven to achieve goals can be common to many types. The 3s are driven to obtain outwards standards of success and have some sort of compulsion to always be working toward that. What you originally wrote was an 8ish interpretation of it--but it didn't touch on anything specifically 3ish.

How do I examine my motivations deeper than that? Btw I found&downloaded Naranjo ebook just now (Didn't find Maitri yet) Maybe that'll help too.

Naranjo's great. Maitri is rough going, and I've only seen her books in print--you may be able to buy an online version, but you'd still have to buy it. The Fauvres are great at listing motivations--they try to reduce everything to that, so you can try. I believe they are located at enneagram.net

I do find it important to be unique, I just really don't do anything to be unique, I just am. I also don't relate to building identity out of emotions. I'm simply not emotional enough for that.

Yeah, and as another type, you won't identify by emotions. That's specific to core 4s. I don't build my ID that way, either...there are times when I get a wave of emotion so strong, I'll just think, No...this is what I'm REALLY all about... but I am hard-pressed to use them as a central source of identity. It's only upon VERY careful analysis that I noticed it at all.

The Fauvres, fwiw, list 4-fixed 8s as being "the moody, loner eight. distinct outsider quality; as if on a highly
personal mission. tendency to feel exempt from conventional rules
and circumstances."

"eight with a two fix: the overtly magnanimous and big hearted eight. sacrificial-dominant
style of relating to others; as protector, big spender, mama-bear
quality."

And you've seen this one: "eight with a three fix: the notably success oriented, prominence seeking eight. utilizes
image and manipulation to advance their career or enterprise.
business achievement can lead to political aspirations."

Any resonate??

I have no idea about what 9's inner world is like...?

Read up on those guys--they're supposed to be rich in epic tales and fantasy.

I'm not at all reserved about my anger, doesn't matter if you know me or not. The only thing I managed to learn to be "reserved" about is outright raging. I still do it, I just leave/hide first. Unless in a relationship, you see, why should I hide there? So much for growing up enough to build a socially proper persona eh

How do you control expression of your anger when you're with people you don't know yet?

Well generally, people don't piss me off that much UNLESS I know them. I've studied personality theory for long enough that I just kind of assume most people are coming from some psychologically different background, and I tend not to get tetchy with them. That's part of it. And I may radiate far more of it than I even realize. Come to think of it, I've publicly snapped at people on a number of occasions, thinking I was actually restraining myself. LOL, never mind what I said earlier. I'm just not aware of what a turd I am.

As for experience of forgiving and sympathetic people, I'm afraid I have been less lucky than you, experienced less of that myself or I just didn't notice it enough.

I won't say I've been any too lucky. But, others have surprised me with their tolerance for me on more than one occasion.

That's not actually my position per se, my position is more looking at it from how it's more efficient for survival of the individuals, genes, whatnot.

I don't really believe in expressions like "natural to band together" and "overly individualistic".

Instead I believe one can still live totally alone if they wish (or perhaps with their loved one(s)), they'd just have to abandon much of what the society of the current world offers. So in that sense, sure, that person wouldn't get "very far". It doesn't mean the person can't live that way though.

But for most people it's worth living inside society for certain material advantages (such as better survival, yeah). Also I view it this way, life is more complex inside society, and that's, well, entertaining, as I do like opportunities and variety to an extent. And I like interaction so that too is an advantage. I'm sure there's other advantages too, like this social sense of grouping together that you expressed as "band together". Hey I did say I was individualistic right? I wonder if that's a crappy social instinct still...

Well, I am 6-fixed, so I do tend to think in terms of "hang together or we'll all hang separately". Again, this is sort of a philosophical reflection I've had from my studies, and does NOT reflect my day-to-day overly individualistic experience myself.

OK just to be sure we are on the same page, what do you mean by wimping exactly? I think I know but just to be sure.

In my case, I've been hard on myself for not standing up for myself at times when I think I "should" have. I guess I fear that makes me "somehow a wimp"--though come to think of it, most of it revolves around sp-first stuff anyway. Like if someone takes my seat, I won't chew them out. I do a cost-benefit analysis, and to me it's less of a pain just to find a new place than it is to fight over something I don't care about anyway, even if it annoys me.

I guess I just thought I was supposed to fight people over that stuff or something...but not when I'm sp-last perhaps.

Foolish meaning someone "not getting along to go along"? Do you mean useful compromises?

Like today my superiors called me on the carpet for my conduct, and rather than fight with them about it or get "hardcore" about my POV, I just nodded and smiled, and decided I wasn't really going to listen to them. But what's the point of torquing out when they're already against me and I'm not going to win the argument anyway? I guess I felt like 8s were supposed to go "down with the ship" on stuff like this; I don't care.

Yeah, I can make compromises if there's a better payoff later. I see myself as a reasonable person first. Still, no matter how open to others ideas I think I am, others DO find me inflexible, come to think of it. That's a total blindspot.

Well I see it as it being their problem if they go by stereotypes. It's not your responsibility to worry about that I think

It isn't deceit if your intention isn't that. Also.. you can always put a disclaimer in profile/signature that you don't fit the stupid stereotypes.

LOL, maybe I should. But nonetheless, I'm not comfortable with it right now. May change later.

Self-conscious in what sense? Is that some 4-ish thing? Strangely enough, I understand what it means identifying by your emotions, I just can't do it.

Like I'm on stage or something. Self-conscious like that. I thought it was 4ish--they're prone to excruciating self-consciousness. Feel like others see their flaws.

Hmm taking things personally, I can do that quite easily but I thought that wasn't exclusive to 4. Apparently, unhealthier 8's do it too, sensitive to being "slighted".

That's actually true. All reactive types. Oh, I am ridiculously oversensitive to slight, too. Like a sideways glance can set me off sometimes. Would have helped if I hadn't been the class laughing stock for 6 or so years, I guess.

Avoiding boring things = Ne-dom?

Pe-dom, 4, 7. Those are my main thoughts.

Was that Maitri's first book of the two?

I read her second book. Haven't yet managed to locate the first.

What kind of exercises are you referring to? Just answering the questions and pondering over the answers or do you mean something else?

In her book, she mentions some exercises, such as having the ego and superego chat when you're berating yourself for something. Explore the reasons behind it. It's supposed to help you reconcile yourself to reality. So, I wrote my reflections on each chapter and practiced whatever advice she offered. It was actually rather scanty, but did help me on my lil quest.

I don't know if I should envy you that you don't have the 8's problems as bad, the stuff you listed here, I do have problems with it all. Though it's fine by default, it only makes me feel shit if it causes other issues in life. Apart from the 8-related issues, only 7-related issues can have that result.

At least it's clear for you. You prolly shouldn't envy me though, cause it's like I feel like one thing but have other issues I'm only semi-aware of.

Anyway...talk later.

 

[valaki]

They explain me fairly well, actually. That's one reason I recommend it, entirely subjective.

Yes it explains me very well too, just there's a few things about 7 you know that's not supposed to be rejection triad

Yeah, but it was bad reasoning, at times based on a poor grasp of the material...and at others failing to see the real picture.

That happens...

The 7 makes sense--I've got issues with frustration, entrapment, and stagnation. But they were neglecting the fact that I was saying I was a total loner who was incapable of reaching out to others, that I'm bitter and NOT personable, that I don't feel confident revealing my fears to others, and that I resent others trying to "protect" me. These things do NOT speak to a 6 core, much less a 6w7 core. They were rationalizing it with things like, "No, you're just a really HEALTHY 6", "Sixes don't know they're 6s", and "You're just really counterphobic".

How is a bitter person a healthy 6 lol

Btw I relate to so much of this. Though I can "reach out" to others in terms of liking interaction. Only bitter when mood is low. But I guess we do have some things in common, understandably if we have the same type

Ugh, all my instincts cause me issues. But my sp seems to be the thing that lapses out on me at times--like jogging through a park at 3 am because there are no robbers running around, right??

I do the same thing actually.

This doesn't mean I'm foolish though.

Same. Especially the bolded--I have huge fears of missing out and camaraderie means a lot to me, and I feel sad that I never seemed to partake of it in my life. And what you say at the end there seems sx-first to me--chemistry.

Sx is probably not my last instinct, right. You really never ever had a bit of camaraderie/friendship stuff? I did, just not often

I'm not exactly sure, to tell the truth.

Maybe someone else can? I might copy out that part later because I'm sure nobody else reads through these posts

I don't think they can switch, but you could have strong Sx-first and about equally low sp and soc.

Hmm ok yes could be.

Sure. I wasn't sooper aware of doing this before or anything--not until major life crises hit and me and my own survival became the only thing on my mind. Simply, nothing is important to me as I am, and everything else is just some sort of backdrop to be dealt with expediently. Including other humans. I'm simply too preoccupied by myself to care. I had to be pushed into this state, though.

Well maybe you were coming at it from a healthier level than me. Seems I've always been a bit "entranced" :/ or whatever they mean by that on some sites. I was always aware of how I was with this, though I didn't realise that others weren't all like this and I didn't put it into words for a while. And well, I do care sometimes about other humans

It's certainly an er, interesting state when only your own survival is the only thing on the mind in a literal sense, I've been there and through it.

I don't see it as being discordant with the "Fi beliefs" as I call them. That's a philosophical ideal, not necessarily my functioning reality. I understand that if I were in another's place, I'd probably do the same thing in many circumstances, so I refrain from judgement. It doesn't mean I wouldn't fight if people did something bad to me--I can be quite unforgiving that way. Yeah, what goes on inside my head within the sanctuary of my own home doesn't necessarily reflect my way of dealing with the outside world, that's all. Two separate spheres. Feel free to ask anything.

OK.

LOL, what an interesting exhibit! Thanks for sharing.

I didn't actually give a link: http://www.lucieandsimon.com/works/silent_world

No I just had that problem with travels. I forced the needed nurturing for myself otherwise. Don't get me wrong, my mother was happy to spend time on things for me or spend time with me in the way I needed it but it felt like I had to force some of it to happen more often. Make any sense?

Well, it wasn't in my experience exactly, but yeah, I can understand.

Type related in any way?

Well somewhat--I don't think a 3-fix is necessarily out of the question, but just being driven to achieve goals can be common to many types. The 3s are driven to obtain outwards standards of success and have some sort of compulsion to always be working toward that. What you originally wrote was an 8ish interpretation of it--but it didn't touch on anything specifically 3ish.

Would you able to ask some questions to delve into this?

Naranjo's great. Maitri is rough going, and I've only seen her books in print--you may be able to buy an online version, but you'd still have to buy it. The Fauvres are great at listing motivations--they try to reduce everything to that, so you can try. I believe they are located at enneagram.net

Thanks

Yeah, and as another type, you won't identify by emotions. That's specific to core 4s. I don't build my ID that way, either...there are times when I get a wave of emotion so strong, I'll just think, No...this is what I'm REALLY all about... but I am hard-pressed to use them as a central source of identity. It's only upon VERY careful analysis that I noticed it at all.

I relate to the bolded only in certain crazy states (I don't mean mental illness now , just stuff that isn't my default)

The Fauvres, fwiw, list 4-fixed 8s as being "the moody, loner eight. distinct outsider quality; as if on a highly
personal mission. tendency to feel exempt from conventional rules
and circumstances."

"eight with a two fix: the overtly magnanimous and big hearted eight. sacrificial-dominant
style of relating to others; as protector, big spender, mama-bear
quality."

And you've seen this one: "eight with a three fix: the notably success oriented, prominence seeking eight. utilizes
image and manipulation to advance their career or enterprise.
business achievement can lead to political aspirations."

Any resonate??

Thanks for that The 2 one definitely does NOT resonate with me. I guess 2 is just the integration then.

I think I relate to the 4 fixed one the most because while I do like success, I have no idea about utilizing image.

The 4 fixed one has things listed that I definitely relate to.

Well generally, people don't piss me off that much UNLESS I know them. I've studied personality theory for long enough that I just kind of assume most people are coming from some psychologically different background, and I tend not to get tetchy with them. That's part of it. And I may radiate far more of it than I even realize. Come to think of it, I've publicly snapped at people on a number of occasions, thinking I was actually restraining myself. LOL, never mind what I said earlier. I'm just not aware of what a turd I am.

I relate to the bold While others still saw me as not restraining myself.........Yeah

In my case, I've been hard on myself for not standing up for myself at times when I think I "should" have. I guess I fear that makes me "somehow a wimp"--though come to think of it, most of it revolves around sp-first stuff anyway. Like if someone takes my seat, I won't chew them out. I do a cost-benefit analysis, and to me it's less of a pain just to find a new place than it is to fight over something I don't care about anyway, even if it annoys me.

I guess I just thought I was supposed to fight people over that stuff or something...but not when I'm sp-last perhaps.

Or maybe because you could be Ne > Se in socionics lol. I mean this just sounded so much like Se role if you are familiar with socionics.

Anyway, I can see why you say Sp-last for yourself. I relate to Sp in this way, I'm a lot more territorial than what you describe here.

Like today my superiors called me on the carpet for my conduct, and rather than fight with them about it or get "hardcore" about my POV, I just nodded and smiled, and decided I wasn't really going to listen to them. But what's the point of torquing out when they're already against me and I'm not going to win the argument anyway? I guess I felt like 8s were supposed to go "down with the ship" on stuff like this; I don't care.

No I read 8's are pragmatic, so they wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot like that. That totally makes sense to me. I also analyse situations and don't start on a lost cause.

Yeah, I can make compromises if there's a better payoff later. I see myself as a reasonable person first. Still, no matter how open to others ideas I think I am, others DO find me inflexible, come to think of it. That's a total blindspot.

Everyone has a different notion of "reasonable"

Like I'm on stage or something. Self-conscious like that. I thought it was 4ish--they're prone to excruciating self-consciousness. Feel like others see their flaws.

Totally just out of curiosity, were you like that as a kid at all?

I rarely feel self-conscious but I totally hate it, I prefer to get rid of the feeling asap.

E.g. if I get admiration I will feel this way. I just don't care really, too much admiration can be a pain in the ass. ...Does that speak against a 3 fix? I dunno really, because success otherwise is good stuff but maybe not with a 3-ish motivation then.

That's actually true. All reactive types. Oh, I am ridiculously oversensitive to slight, too. Like a sideways glance can set me off sometimes. Would have helped if I hadn't been the class laughing stock for 6 or so years, I guess.

What were they laughing at -.- ??

In her book, she mentions some exercises, such as having the ego and superego chat when you're berating yourself for something. Explore the reasons behind it. It's supposed to help you reconcile yourself to reality. So, I wrote my reflections on each chapter and practiced whatever advice she offered. It was actually rather scanty, but did help me on my lil quest.

Mind writing a bit about the exercises for 7 and 8, of course only if it's not too long?

Anyway...talk later.

Yeah when you get the time Thanks.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

How is a bitter person a healthy 6 lol

That's exactly right...I don't consider myself to be "healthy". Hearing that, especially from those who claim to be good typists...well, it's just absurd to me.

Btw I relate to so much of this. Though I can "reach out" to others in terms of liking interaction. Only bitter when mood is low. But I guess we do have some things in common, understandably if we have the same type

Yes--many 8s report these sentiments, though they are seldom in descriptions.

I do the same thing actually.

This doesn't mean I'm foolish though.

I've actually been robbed for doing so. I don't consider myself foolish either, but I just don't always have awareness of "protecting my things".

Sx is probably not my last instinct, right. You really never ever had a bit of camaraderie/friendship stuff? I did, just not often

On rare occasion, and it's like a beam of sunlight on the stormy seas. But, by and large, that's just not the way my life has gone.

Well maybe you were coming at it from a healthier level than me. Seems I've always been a bit "entranced" :/ or whatever they mean by that on some sites. I was always aware of how I was with this, though I didn't realise that others weren't all like this and I didn't put it into words for a while. And well, I do care sometimes about other humans

It's certainly an er, interesting state when only your own survival is the only thing on the mind in a literal sense, I've been there and through it.

I was probably on what Riso and Hudson call "Level 4" when I started. I'm solidly on what they describe as "Level 6" right now, trying to prevent full rupture over into truly unhealthy levels.

I didn't actually give a link: http://www.lucieandsimon.com/works/silent_world

This disturbs some people???

Type related in any way?

Well "forcing" things is probably most allied with 8ishness, and pushing for a closer connection is something I associate with sx4. Sexual subtypes in general.

Would you able to ask some questions to delve into this?

Sorry, but not presently. I'll have to give that some real thought. I'll put em here later if you still need it.

Thanks for that The 2 one definitely does NOT resonate with me. I guess 2 is just the integration then.

I think I relate to the 4 fixed one the most because while I do like success, I have no idea about utilizing image.

The 4 fixed one has things listed that I definitely relate to.

4 seems the most likely to me--it's the one I resonate with personally. But, it could still be 3. We'll give it some thought.

Or maybe because you could be Ne > Se in socionics lol. I mean this just sounded so much like Se role if you are familiar with socionics.

Oh, I get so many comments about my socionics type. Most seem to think INFp. Or ENFj. I'm not too sure about that...I've yet to make a study of it, though.

Anyway, I can see why you say Sp-last for yourself. I relate to Sp in this way, I'm a lot more territorial than what you describe here.

I can be territorial, but generally only regarding my own private space. For the most part, I'm not too inclined to sp-issues.

No I read 8's are pragmatic, so they wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot like that. That totally makes sense to me. I also analyse situations and don't start on a lost cause.

Yeah, the self-interest was not made clear to me at first. It's so much easier for me to nod and smile and do whatever I was going to do anyway, than to make a big stink about it. I don't do that till I'm violated in some way.

Totally just out of curiosity, were you like that as a kid at all?

Yeah, as a kid, prolly from getting made fun of. I wasn't too self conscious before that. But it still persists as an adult at times.

I rarely feel self-conscious but I totally hate it, I prefer to get rid of the feeling asap.

E.g. if I get admiration I will feel this way. I just don't care really, too much admiration can be a pain in the ass. ...Does that speak against a 3 fix? I dunno really, because success otherwise is good stuff but maybe not with a 3-ish motivation then.

It could, though I think the 3-fix would simply enhance your ability and desire to be "prominent". You don't necessarily need admiration as a core 8--the admiration is specific to core 3.

What were they laughing at -.- ??

God knows. One kid decided I was ugly in the 3rd grade and just told me about it all year CONSTANTLY. After that, the girls started hitting puberty and getting catty. They'd point and whisper and snicker and stuff. Give me looks in the hall. They rejected me from the lunch table and I never did quite figure out why. A group of kids once found me in the library--I had no IDEA who these kids were, incidentally--and just started degrading me for no reason. In the 6th grade, some mean boys just devoted their day to putting me down. (I literally did not initiate these interactions, I was just sitting silently in the corner.)

By puberty I hated everyone and none of it mattered anymore, so it may have continued even longer, but I don't know.

Mind writing a bit about the exercises for 7 and 8, of course only if it's not too long?

Sadly, she did not include much practical advice for the 7s. For 8s, she said we had to learn to "free the animal soul" but was short on practical advice there, too, unfortunately.

Like I said, her work is hard going, but reflecting on the chapters themselves was very beneficial. Her first book might be somewhat better.

I'm planning on wading through it again sometime soon, so I'll put up anything (if there is anything) I glean from it again. The superego one is the main one I remember.

 

[valaki]

Yes--many 8s report these sentiments, though they are seldom in descriptions.

Heh yeah well I've just read through Naranjo (I found an ebook ), about 8 and all it talks about is the negative stuff haha. What was surprising is, some stuff I attributed to 7 was actually in there, in the chapter on 8. Hmm yeah it paints a very different picture of type 8 than some overly positive descriptions online.

I've actually been robbed for doing so. I don't consider myself foolish either, but I just don't always have awareness of "protecting my things".

That's not fun!

I think I do have the awareness more than you though it may have been some luck too that I didn't get robbed yet But definitely not just luck I think.

On rare occasion, and it's like a beam of sunlight on the stormy seas. But, by and large, that's just not the way my life has gone.

I like that metaphor

I was probably on what Riso and Hudson call "Level 4" when I started. I'm solidly on what they describe as "Level 6" right now, trying to prevent full rupture over into truly unhealthy levels.

Those levels are in the book Wisdom of the enneagram right? I don't have it with me now... I can get it from my brother though if they are in that book.

This disturbs some people???

Lol apparently yes!

Sorry, but not presently. I'll have to give that some real thought. I'll put em here later if you still need it.

Thanks in advance

Oh, I get so many comments about my socionics type. Most seem to think INFp. Or ENFj. I'm not too sure about that...I've yet to make a study of it, though.

Oh. Well maybe Ni > Se and not Ne > Se then. There is a socionics typing thread by edchidna1000, have you seen it? It's in a new section here in the forum. (Socionics section, obviously)

It could, though I think the 3-fix would simply enhance your ability and desire to be "prominent". You don't necessarily need admiration as a core 8--the admiration is specific to core 3.

Well, ok, still thinking about 3 vs 4 fix then.

God knows. One kid decided I was ugly in the 3rd grade and just told me about it all year CONSTANTLY. After that, the girls started hitting puberty and getting catty. They'd point and whisper and snicker and stuff. Give me looks in the hall. They rejected me from the lunch table and I never did quite figure out why. A group of kids once found me in the library--I had no IDEA who these kids were, incidentally--and just started degrading me for no reason. In the 6th grade, some mean boys just devoted their day to putting me down. (I literally did not initiate these interactions, I was just sitting silently in the corner.)

By puberty I hated everyone and none of it mattered anymore, so it may have continued even longer, but I don't know.

Eh, these kids. :S I do think part of it could have been that you were just sitting in a corner. I tried that "strategy" in high school and my attitude got misunderstood by others. (They thought I was looking down on them)

Sadly, she did not include much practical advice for the 7s. For 8s, she said we had to learn to "free the animal soul" but was short on practical advice there, too, unfortunately.

Like I said, her work is hard going, but reflecting on the chapters themselves was very beneficial. Her first book might be somewhat better.

I'm planning on wading through it again sometime soon, so I'll put up anything (if there is anything) I glean from it again. The superego one is the main one I remember.

Thanks in advance again

 

[valaki]

In a test at similarminds:

Your main type is Type 8
Your variant stacking is sx/sp/so
Your level of health is below average, i.e. unhealthy

Based on your health score you would benefit from working on your...
physical health/fitness
psychological health

Well I recall doing this a year ago and I wasn't unhealthy then I was definitely different. Good tests, these.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

Heh yeah well I've just read through Naranjo (I found an ebook ), about 8 and all it talks about is the negative stuff haha. What was surprising is, some stuff I attributed to 7 was actually in there, in the chapter on 8. Hmm yeah it paints a very different picture of type 8 than some overly positive descriptions online.

Naranjo has a way of knocking the accreted bullshit off your brain, which I like. He does get criticized for only portraying the "negative" side of the type, though, but if you're prepared to accept the fact that these are the more "neurotic" tendencies you're capable of, it's actually quite efficient.

I think I do have the awareness more than you though it may have been some luck too that I didn't get robbed yet But definitely not just luck I think.

Ne-dom may also play a role in my case--I'm literally not on earth most of the time.

Those levels are in the book Wisdom of the enneagram right? I don't have it with me now... I can get it from my brother though if they are in that book.

Yeah, from Wisdom, and Personality Types.

Oh. Well maybe Ni > Se and not Ne > Se then. There is a socionics typing thread by edchidna1000, have you seen it? It's in a new section here in the forum. (Socionics section, obviously)

Will check.

Eh, these kids. :S I do think part of it could have been that you were just sitting in a corner. I tried that "strategy" in high school and my attitude got misunderstood by others. (They thought I was looking down on them)

I never thought of that, actually. I was withdrawn precisely because they were always treating me that way, the idiots. Of course, by the end of my time there, I really WAS looking down on them.

Thanks in advance again

You're welcome~!

 

[valaki]

Naranjo has a way of knocking the accreted bullshit off your brain, which I like. He does get criticized for only portraying the "negative" side of the type, though, but if you're prepared to accept the fact that these are the more "neurotic" tendencies you're capable of, it's actually quite efficient.

Haha quite honestly I like how he paints only the negative picture

I've skimmed type 7 since then and as a result, I'm slightly confused still. I really do relate to some bits in there but at the same time strongly not relating to other bits. I have a thread on the 7's gluttony now, I put my thoughts there. I think what I'm trying to do is separate Ne, Se, E7, E8. You are Ne and type 8, and I've seen Se 7's, so it's clearly possible, I just need to understand it. Then I will finally decide on my type

Ne-dom may also play a role in my case--I'm literally not on earth most of the time.

Makes sense lol

I never thought of that, actually. I was withdrawn precisely because they were always treating me that way, the idiots. Of course, by the end of my time there, I really WAS looking down on them.

Yes, it's very idiotic. They would never see that connection (why I or you were withdrawn).

As for the looking down part, in my case the only thing true was that after failing to integrate, I did distance myself and was looking at the people in the class in a sort of antagonistic way but I don't think "look down on them" was the right expression for that.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

Haha quite honestly I like how he paints only the negative picture

I've skimmed type 7 since then and as a result, I'm slightly confused still. I really do relate to some bits in there but at the same time strongly not relating to other bits. I have a thread on the 7's gluttony now, I put my thoughts there. I think what I'm trying to do is separate Ne, Se, E7, E8. You are Ne and type 8, and I've seen Se 7's, so it's clearly possible, I just need to understand it. Then I will finally decide on my type

I'll take a look at this.

Btw, your way of going about this seems very Ti.

Yes, it's very idiotic. They would never see that connection (why I or you were withdrawn).

The bullies never remember...their victims never forget. Old story, and true in my case.

 

[valaki]

I'll take a look at this.

Btw, your way of going about this seems very Ti.

Yeah <3 Ti

And thanks for looking at it!

The bullies never remember...their victims never forget. Old story, and true in my case.

Well I'm going to sound really 7-ish now but don't dwell on the past.

I generally don't, though I'm sure it affects me on some unconscious level.

 

[valaki]

[MENTION=17697]small.wonder[/MENTION]

I'll continue here as mentioned in the other thread.

You really think you know my entire communication style from a few posts in one single thread?

As for 8w9, I don't relate to the descriptions I read, I'm not THAT introverted. If you got a good one, sure, I'll read it and see.

Nope, I actually checked out a couple other threads you recently posted in (this one specifically) to check myself before I wrote that. Even so, of course I don't know your "entire communication style", just the way it feels. The last thing I ever want to do is tell someone what type they are or are not. Still, I'm pretty free with my observations and find no need to sugar coat.

Alright sure no need to sugar coat.

You are right about one thing, when I'm not actively involved, I'm pretty even/calm, that's my default. Self-reflection is one of those situations, though self-reflection itself is sure not my default. I don't know if that's type related and if so, MBTI or enneagram or what.

My 8w9 question was just that, not an assigning of the type to yourself. I can see from your response that despite the soft vibe I get from you, you are indeed reactive! Haha.

Meh

8w9 is not necessarily more introverted than 8w7 actually. Both wings could be an extrovert or an introvert, as aforementioned. The distinction is often made in terms of "lightweight" (8w7) who jabs quick and sharp with long endurance, and heavyweight (8w9) slower to anger, who preserves their energy for one powerful motion. Both are capable of serious destruction, they just approach it with different energy. Also in regards to anxiety/high energy: 8w7 can almost quiver with energy/anticipation, I've witnessed this in my Dad even in physically (it's like he's wired, that's the 7). 8w9 on the other hand has been said to be the least anxious type because of the tranquility that 9 brings to the picture.

Actually, "introverted" was just a quick summary of my impression of the subtype. The way you contrast 8w7 with 8w9 here, I relate to 8w7 a lot more. It was always pretty obvious I'm not a type 9, type 7 less obvious.

This is the best description I could find so far on the internet via this thread

Thanks. I don't relate that much. I actually should learn more diplomacy or whatever 8w9 seems to have, to use when I'm angry. What I can see in myself is that calm default I mentioned above. If I have to wait somewhere or something, I can really "tune out". That assuming I'm not being impatient, all mobilized ready to go. Because that happens too, depending.

 

[small.wonder]

Alright sure no need to sugar coat.

You are right about one thing, when I'm not actively involved, I'm pretty even/calm, that's my default. Self-reflection is one of those situations, though self-reflection itself is sure not my default. I don't know if that's type related and if so, MBTI or enneagram or what.

Which is exactly why I thought a look at 8w9 might be worth a shot. Your calmness could just be a product of the general "grounded" nature of 8, which is more matter-of-fact than it is serene (if that makes sense).

Actually, "introverted" was just a quick summary of my impression of the subtype. The way you contrast 8w7 with 8w9 here, I relate to 8w7 a lot more. It was always pretty obvious I'm not a type 9, type 7 less obvious.

Cool, I'm glad that at least solidified your perception of type. How would you rate yourself in terms of health?

Thanks. I don't relate that much. I actually should learn more diplomacy or whatever 8w9 seems to have, to use when I'm angry. What I can see in myself is that calm default I mentioned above. If I have to wait somewhere or something, I can really "tune out". That assuming I'm not being impatient, all mobilized ready to go. Because that happens too, depending.

I could learn that too, though I think of it more as tact (which I don't have).

When you "tune out" is that just to the world around you? Where does your mind go when you do this?

 

[valaki]

Which is exactly why I thought a look at 8w9 might be worth a shot. Your calmness could just be a product of the general "grounded" nature of 8, which is more matter-of-fact than it is serene (if that makes sense).

Yeah but that's my *default*. Doesn't mean I'm always like that. Actually, to give you a more complete picture, on top of that default I can pretty easily layer a sort of excitedness. I can move out of the dispassionate matter-of-fact state and become passionate easily. (And I can get reactive or angry and whatnot easily too ;p)

Cool, I'm glad that at least solidified your perception of type. How would you rate yourself in terms of health?

I think I used to be more healthy, average or maybe 1 level above average in certain aspects but things have not been going too well lately and so I see a bad tendency :/.

I could learn that too, though I think of it more as tact (which I don't have).

Yes, tact is a good word for that actually.

When you "tune out" is that just to the world around you? Where does your mind go when you do this?

Yes, the world around me. Though I retain a basic spatial awareness of my surroundings. Mind goes nowhere, just an empty mind. Sometimes a few fleeting thoughts. What's that then?

I'll also add, that taken to an extreme can be my way of meditation. Just stare at an external "point". Refreshing.

 

[small.wonder]

Yeah but that's my *default*. Doesn't mean I'm always like that. Actually, to give you a more complete picture, on top of that default I can pretty easily layer a sort of excitedness. I can move out of the dispassionate matter-of-fact state and become passionate easily. (And I can get reactive or angry and whatnot easily too ;p)

Matter-of-fact meets intensity, yes?

I think I used to be more healthy, average or maybe 1 level above average in certain aspects but things have not been going too well lately and so I see a bad tendency :/.

Eh, we all have our ups and downs, even in a single day. I asked about health because I still cannot get over the gentleness/calmness in the way you communicate, and wondered if it was just because you are super healthy (not the case). It's just so interesting.

Yes, the world around me. Though I retain a basic spatial awareness of my surroundings. Mind goes nowhere, just an empty mind. Sometimes a few fleeting thoughts. What's that then?

I'll also add, that taken to an extreme can be my way of meditation. Just stare at an external "point". Refreshing.

That is very 9-ish. 9's are all about serenity and can totally just zone out if they decide to. 7 on the other hand is always busy upstairs (in their mind) and often they even struggle to shut that off and find calm. They actually avoid calm because then they might actually feel something negative or have to deal with inner work (which they fear).

Perhaps you just have balanced wings but there is a definite 9 influence here.

 

[valaki]

Matter-of-fact meets intensity, yes?

Yes, that's the best.

Eh, we all have our ups and downs, even in a single day. I asked about health because I still cannot get over the gentleness/calmness in the way you communicate, and wondered if it was just because you are super healthy (not the case). It's just so interesting.

Hey you need to see me while I have one of my rages.

About ups and downs, sure, but there are also general tendencies over a longer period and I was talking about that.

If I was to go into more detail on that, would that give more info on my type etc.?

That is very 9-ish. 9's are all about serenity and can totally just zone out if they decide to. 7 on the other hand is always busy upstairs (in their mind) and often they even struggle to shut that off and find calm. They actually avoid calm because then they might actually feel something negative or have to deal with inner work (which they fear).

See, that's one of the things why I don't relate to core 7.

Though I can't say I'm all just about serenity and zoning out. I'm just easily capable of doing so but I prefer feeling alive.

Perhaps you just have balanced wings but there is a definite 9 influence here.

I was thinking about having balanced wings originally but I see myself more in the 8w7 descriptions overall.

 

[Haven]

Ah btw.. that thing about 5 vs 9, do you have a way to explain the difference? I'm still curious about that.

It's not an easy question, it's essentially attachment vs non-attachment... Steve Wozniak vs Bill Gates.

Dexter is a 3w2 but his way of thinking is like a 5w6

 

[valaki]

It's not an easy question, it's essentially attachment vs non-attachment... Steve Wozniak vs Bill Gates.

What kind of attachment?

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

Yeah <3 Ti

And thanks for looking at it!

Welcome!

Well I'm going to sound really 7-ish now but don't dwell on the past.

Oh, but how I will dwell. Like I prior said, I'm more or less tied with 4 as my core type--this is one example of why and how.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

Yeah <3 Ti

And thanks for looking at it!

Welcome!

Well I'm going to sound really 7-ish now but don't dwell on the past.

Oh, but how I will dwell. Like I prior said, I'm more or less tied with 4 as my core type--this is one example of why and how.