User Tag List

Results 1 to 9 of 9

  1. #1
    Junior Member interstellar98's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    7

    Default 4w5 vs. 5w4 vs. 4w3, tritype help?

    Hello,
    I'm a 17 year old enneagram 4 that's having a bit of trouble determining his wing, instinctual stacking, and tritype. Honestly, most of this issue comes from the fact that I'm a very dichotomous person and feel like I relate equally so to both 3 and 5 wings. In fact, in descriptions of both subtypes, it seems like I have a pretty heavy influence from both of them, depending on my mood and the context and such. Though, it confuses me to settle myself as having "balanced wings" as most versions of the enneagram theory don't necessarily accommodate to the idea of that being a possibility, or at least a rarity.

    I'm withdrawn in the sense that I'm detached from the normal, real world, established ways etc but I wouldn't describe myself as excessively introverted; it's more just having eclectic and idiosyncratic orientations and participating in outlets for those rather than conventionality. I also seem to be very detached from other people, as of recently. Earlier in my life I used to intimately merge with people but bad experiences led me to unconsciously detach myself from others. because of this, I always feel a sense of lacking. For whatever reason, I connect with some people seemingly perfectly but I just seem to feel nothing. Maybe this phenomena may be relevant.

    Every test I take seems to type me as a 4w5, but many facets of my personality seem to indicate me as a 4w3 poster child. So, I will analyze myself in partition this analysis in two categories of both subtypes.


    4w3:

    Immediately when first reading the descriptions for this type, I connected with the idea of covering internal self contempt with a vibrant, flashy, and "interesting" image of charisma and exuberance. I, if I care to, have the ability to study a social context and adapt my image according to the requirements of the situation which is obviously very 3 sounding. I care about the opinions of other people, and both marvel and feel shame at the idea of being an outsider; yet, contradictory, I romanticize this image as well.

    Another three aspect of my personality is the fact that I have a very strong sense of humour and act energetically (sometimes extroverted). I also relate to the idea of displaying my individuality in a staunch and impacting way, but this seems more to tie to the 4 image of needing to express oneself.

    I love the idea of turning my life and personality into a work of art, and somehow manifesting my internal vision of experiencing the world into something that is a catalyst to change in external realities. I sort of have a dream of "changing the world," or whatever field I involve myself in and leaving my mark on the world with that internal vision. A great example that epitomizes what I'd like to do with myself is people like Bob Dylan, Allen Ginsberg, John Lennon, Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain etc. I love the idea of being a sort of generational figure head, and that's mainly the source of my "ambitious" side. However, I don't relate at all to the 3's tendency to value work and pragmatism; in fact, I despise work and pragmatism and often reject those with in turn retreating into my intellectualizations. Which brings us to the 4w5 part of me.



    4w5: Just as much as I relate to the 4w3 ethos of fulfilling oneself in a sort of expansive, grandiose manner, I relate to the 4w5 ethos of being a sort of voyeur. I fear incompetency, and counteract those feelings with the idea that I am intellectual superior, or rather, compensate for my lack of functioning in the "real world" for the worth of my conceptualizations. I am constantly thinking, conceptualizing, observing, toying with ideas, etc. In fact, it almost seems that I think more than I legitimately feel. I have to immerse myself in certain aesthetic environments, in reclusiveness, to feel properly. I feel a detachment from others due to the enigmatic and idiosyncratic nature of my thoughts and thinking patterns, leading me to feel alienated no matter how I connect superficially.

    And most of my "ambitions" that could be attributed to being a 3 are intellectually/artistically focused. One of the most definitive facets of my personality, and one of the maint hings I ground any sort of identity I have is my intelligence, my mind. Asking anyone about me the most common thing they'll say is refer to my intelligence. It's all I have to ground my worth in, really, as I'm very impractical. I am insightful, perceptive, "ingenious," observant, and detached in all the ways that a 5 would seem to be. I contemplate and analyze ideas, myself, and the world around me constantly and turn those into a sort of definitive insight into the inner workings of things that I can carry with me through my experiences. I constantly intellectualize my environment, and ask questions, dismiss detail immediately for depth of thought. I consider myself to be iconoclastic in my thought process, and think very deeply and often rationally. Though my 4 nature makes me prone to emotion, I have the ability to detach myself from that side and be quite rational both in my approach to my belief systems and myself. I always have a tendency to overthink things, and have very nuanced/complex thought patterns.

    I'm also more staunchly individualistic than a 3 would, I don't necessarily temper my individuality and I wouldn't describe myself as refined. I don't necessarily care about being impressive outside of the things I value which is mainly my art and sociopolitical, intellectual, cultural interests. But I don't relate with the fives inhibiting shyness, nor with the fives staunch reclusiveness; I'm not really shy and though I recluse myself to study and delve into my interests I do participate in class discussions etc social situations on occasion.

    Some of this even indicated 5w4 but I feel like I'm too charming (or rather I use a charming mask) to be an isolated 5.



    I'm also an INFP, if that helps. Sorry if I came off as douchey, but I hope you understand the cognitive dissonance.

    As far as sx/sp/so etc I don't necessarily understand the instinctual definitions. I desire emotional intimacy and value social worth for the sake of advancing my ideals, so that leads me to view myself as sx/so but i'm unsure. I'm pretty sure I'm sx dominant as I'm very much an intense and usually passionate person, desiring intimacy and emotional gratification, become pitifully obsessed and captivated by an experience/idea/person.
    anyways, thanks for participating in these ramblings. hope someone can add further insight into figuring myself out.
    thanks

  2. #2
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Enneagram
    N/A
    Posts
    750

    Default

    I don't know for sure, but you don't seem like a 5
    You are so arbitrary.

  3. #3
    Junior Member interstellar98's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    I don't know for sure, but you don't seem like a 5
    why not if i may ask?

  4. #4
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Enneagram
    N/A
    Posts
    750

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by interstellar98 View Post
    why not if i may ask?

    Well, I am not sure. You could be. You do seem to have headish energy ...I wouldn't single out five as your type from the head group right away, though.
    You are so arbitrary.

  5. #5
    Junior Member interstellar98's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    Well, I am not sure. You could be. You do seem to have headish energy ...I wouldn't single out five as your type from the head group right away, though.
    interesting, I don't quite know what you're referring to but I'll note that. well, upon first discovering the enneagram I almost instantly typed myself as a 4. every test I've taken has typed me as a 4 as well. it has only been recently upon further self-analysis that I'm beginning to doubt it. my first typing was 4w3/7w8/8w7 but upon further reading and internal changes (as well in changes with how i conducted myself behaviorally) i discovered that 1. i didn't relate to the 3's pragmatism and work ethic (my relation to 3 is more me being image oriented and being highly ambitious than anything else), and 2. i very much have 5 traits, such as feelings of incompetency and a general tendency to intellectualize to compensate for that incompetency. i have a need to conceptualize most things i involve myself in, and get caught up in these conceptualizations inhibiting my ability to take action. i'm also quite perceptive and insightful, as discussed earlier, and i have an astounding level of inquisitiveness/curiosity. i favor deep thinking and am notorious for asking far too many questions. the aspects of the 5 i don't relate to are emotional detachment and secretiveness. i'm quite self revealing and expressive, at least when i feel i'll be understood.

  6. #6
    Junior Member interstellar98's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    7

    Default

    anyone else care to help me figure myself out?

  7. #7
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    748 sx/so
    Posts
    1,489

    Default

    mm i think to determine between core and wings you have to look at internal motivation. the stuff you said about type 5 are similarities you have with 5 (so it could be a wind or tritype, if you believe in tritype) but you apparently don't have the inner motivation of the 5, the fear of the 5, etc. so one thing is looking like an enneagram (but starting from different motivation points and just looking similar) to actually have the same deep fear/craving/motivation as described by a type (and maybe in the descriptions you may do different things, because oh well maybe there is some relaxation as to how those motivations are expressed).

    get me? just focus on what's driving you, not what you look like.

    ps. are you sure about the INFP too? it was interesting to see you make a list like that, reminded me of Te-use (which should be your last function). just saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by interstellar98 View Post
    interesting, I don't quite know what you're referring to but I'll note that. well, upon first discovering the enneagram I almost instantly typed myself as a 4. every test I've taken has typed me as a 4 as well. it has only been recently upon further self-analysis that I'm beginning to doubt it. my first typing was 4w3/7w8/8w7 but upon further reading and internal changes (as well in changes with how i conducted myself behaviorally) i discovered that 1. i didn't relate to the 3's pragmatism and work ethic (my relation to 3 is more me being image oriented and being highly ambitious than anything else), and 2. i very much have 5 traits, such as feelings of incompetency and a general tendency to intellectualize to compensate for that incompetency. i have a need to conceptualize most things i involve myself in, and get caught up in these conceptualizations inhibiting my ability to take action. i'm also quite perceptive and insightful, as discussed earlier, and i have an astounding level of inquisitiveness/curiosity. i favor deep thinking and am notorious for asking far too many questions. the aspects of the 5 i don't relate to are emotional detachment and secretiveness. i'm quite self revealing and expressive, at least when i feel i'll be understood.

  8. #8
    Junior Member interstellar98's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    mm i think to determine between core and wings you have to look at internal motivation. the stuff you said about type 5 are similarities you have with 5 (so it could be a wind or tritype, if you believe in tritype) but you apparently don't have the inner motivation of the 5, the fear of the 5, etc. so one thing is looking like an enneagram (but starting from different motivation points and just looking similar) to actually have the same deep fear/craving/motivation as described by a type (and maybe in the descriptions you may do different things, because oh well maybe there is some relaxation as to how those motivations are expressed).

    get me? just focus on what's driving you, not what you look like.

    ps. are you sure about the INFP too? it was interesting to see you make a list like that, reminded me of Te-use (which should be your last function). just saying.
    well I actually do relate greatly to the fives fear of the external world, and my conceptualizations are a response to that. my motivations in life are to achieve transcendence; transcending the seemingly endless pattern of rebirth and decay that smothers me, transmitting the entirety of my individual experience in manifesting this internal vision that is directed in this concept i have of coalescence. it's self actualization, and self actualization serving as a catalyst to human actualization. i want to confront absurdity with making something significant with my existence. it's a bit complicated, i don't know, it's also equally tied to returning somehow to this internal romanticized ideal of innocence that has been lost with age and time (relating to the decaying theme.)

    and yeah well I'm certainly an Fi dominant, but I'm also very high in Ti, Ne, and somewhat high in Ni. I'd say my Ti is about equal to my Fi. I don't use Te really because I'm very very impractical and have a disdain towards the objective. I don't know, I don't caqare for MBTI as much. Even the functions seem a bit like a false dichotomy.

  9. #9
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    748 sx/so
    Posts
    1,489

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by interstellar98 View Post
    well I actually do relate greatly to the fives fear of the external world, and my conceptualizations are a response to that. my motivations in life are to achieve transcendence; transcending the seemingly endless pattern of rebirth and decay that smothers me, transmitting the entirety of my individual experience in manifesting this internal vision that is directed in this concept i have of coalescence. it's self actualization, and self actualization serving as a catalyst to human actualization. i want to confront absurdity with making something significant with my existence. it's a bit complicated, i don't know, it's also equally tied to returning somehow to this internal romanticized ideal of innocence that has been lost with age and time (relating to the decaying theme.)

    and yeah well I'm certainly an Fi dominant, but I'm also very high in Ti, Ne, and somewhat high in Ni. I'd say my Ti is about equal to my Fi. I don't use Te really because I'm very very impractical and have a disdain towards the objective. I don't know, I don't caqare for MBTI as much. Even the functions seem a bit like a false dichotomy.
    i'd suggest you read Naranjo's book, Character and Neurosis. It focuses on the psychosis and shortcomings of the types. It will probably be more helpful to you (to anyone) than focusing just on the positive aspects. You can find the full book as pdf at: http://socionix.com/misc/books/12177...d-Neurosis.pdf

Similar Threads

  1. [E3] 3w4 vs. 4w3
    By Thalassa in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-14-2014, 05:03 AM
  2. [E4] 4w5 vs 4w3
    By Eugene Watson VIII in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-03-2014, 04:18 PM
  3. [E3] 3w4s vs 4w3s
    By Elfboy in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 08-01-2011, 06:40 PM
  4. 3w4 vs 4w5 vs 5w4?
    By Nymma in forum Enneagram
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 07-25-2011, 01:07 PM
  5. [Enne] 3w4 vs 4w3
    By yoyo in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-03-2011, 11:02 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO