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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by reckful View Post
    Well, temperament is not behavior, although it certainly influences behavior. I'd say the most obvious possible interpretation of your sister's statement is that you're an introvert at the gut (temperament) level, but you've learned how to "act like an extravert" in situations where that's appropriate or advantageous.



    Well, those responses are a little on the terse side.

    If you have a tendency to be the more demanding party in personal relationships, rather than tending to be the party who's less attentive to the relationship than your partner would like, I'd say that would be substantially more characteristic of a male (especially) INF than a male INT.

    Putting "knowledge" in your Not Me pile on the grounds that you "value wisdom much more" than you value "knowledge" has a bit of an NF flavor.



    To the extent that you dip into any of my T/F posts, I'd be curious to hear if anything in those makes you lean significantly T or F.

    I apologize, I don't know how to break up quotes so I will answer with a list of responses.

    1. Acting like an extrovert: This seems fairly accurate to me. I have spent a great deal of time developing my weaker sides, which were: Communicating with people, social customs, appreciating people, opening up emotionally, learning the world doesn't evolve around me. I used to avoid any kind of interaction with people, but now I am (or so it seems to me) equally energized AND drained by BOTH other people and introspection.

    2. Terse...is that a good or bad thing? I was mostly pressed for time as I was answering.

    3. I have looked into about half of the information you provided and I can say that Kiersey's analysis of an NT described me by about 90%. (I easily identified with most of the info, but a lot of it reminded me of myself before a lot of personal development.) In fact, I became very excited with how I identified with NT.
    I read up on the INFP and INFJ types and I found that I couldn't really identify with them. If you want me drop some specifics about why I feel this way, let me know.

  2. #32
    Senior Member reckful's Avatar
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    I'd already mentioned that, when I focused on just INTP and INFP, to the extent that I had a lean, I was leaning a little bit INTP. What you say in your latest post about your reactions to the Keirsey NT descriptions and the INFP and INFJ profiles increases that lean significantly. It sounds to me like you may be ready to settle on INTP at this point (at least for the time being).

    And again, it may be that your T preference (assuming that's your type) is not all that far from the borderline.

    On the terseness thing... The issue I felt most in the dark about was in what ways you tend to be more "demanding" than average in the relationship department. As already noted (and consistent with whatever profile you were looking at), that's definitely more of an uncharacteristic INTP thing than a characteristic INTP thing if you're referring to being "demanding" the way one party to a relationship is likely to be if they feel neglected and/or like the other party isn't putting enough time and energy into the relationship. I'd say a typical INTP (like his INTJ cousin) is more likely to be on the other side of that kind of relationship lopsidedness. But it may be you're thinking of being "demanding" in terms of something else (or you might just be an arguably untypical INTP in that respect).

  3. #33

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    Perhaps I am willing to settle on INTP for the time being.

    About being demanding in a relationship, I may have overestimated the extent to which I am demanding. I went ahead and got a second opinion on my "demanding-ness" :P and was told that I am not demanding at all. In fact, my mother told me that, out of 9 children, I was one of the easiest to raise because I had a very accommodating personality.

    On the downside, I am still apparently difficult to live with (at times) because I am occasionally sarcastic, ornery, and difficult to read. I give off a vibe that I am very open, but when someone gets to know me they realize that I keep things hidden away. I don't have a short fuse, and I usually don't get mad. However, when I do lose my temper, I tend to lose it explosively. Ten minutes later all is forgiven and I am ready to mend fences (even if the other party is not) and apologize if I have to.

    Another thing. I had been trying to better my objective self-assessment (as objective as can possibly be, I know it is impossible to be truly objective) and I realized that I actually am more rational or logical than I had thought and implied. I prefer when an argument has common sense, when the thought process follows, when it doesn't have contradictions or fallacies. I am not "hardcore" about it, and I don't go around arguing left and right with everyone's "holey" arguments, (indeed, sometimes I allow myself one or two) but I definitely do not identify well with those who place emphasis on emotions in an argument. I won't dispute with them (I learned the hard way that it would get me nowhere, logic is subjective to them! [Insanity])
    But I don't take their arguments into account because appeal to emotion is not really valid argument in any case, and is a fairly common fallacy.
    I don't know if this last bit of info changes anything, but I provided it because I hadn't realized how much I value the rational approach versus the emotional appeal.

  4. #34

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    Is there any chance you will get back to me on this?

  5. #35
    Senior Member reckful's Avatar
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    In the last part of your second-to-last post, you emphasized that your approach to arguments/decisions is decidedly more "logical" and "rational" than "emotional" but, as I emphasized in the third spoiler in this PerC post (which I previously linked you to), I think that's a T/F framing that, especially for INs, is more likely to mislead somebody than help them determine their preference. So I don't see that as particularly significant from an INTP-vs.-INFP standpoint (and especially if we assume that, if you're an INFP, your F preference is very mild).

    Looking back over your posts, I'd say I continue to get more of an INTP vibe from you, but also continue to have the impression that you're probably not far from the middle on one or more of your preferences, which could well be why you have the frustrating sense that none of the type descriptions — which tend to match up best with people with four reasonably strong preferences — really captures you perfectly. And, again, I'm also open to the possibility that INxP might be the best label for some people.

    Keirsey was an INTP but a very psychologically-oriented INTP, obviously — and a counselor for many years before he was an author. Although I wouldn't rule out INFP for you, I'd say INTP sounds like a better fit, especially now that you've reported that you "read up on the INFP and INFJ types and I found that I couldn't really identify with them." Maybe you're an INtP with what you might call some "F aspirations," which you've described in terms of "focusing a lot on personal growth" and "attending to my weaker traits" and going through "two major (perhaps Life-Changing) events in my life," one relationship-related and one "spiritual."

    It's not uncommon for people on one side of one of the MBTI dichotomies to wish for more of what's on the other side, and Jung largely viewed psychological growth in terms of gradually incorporating more and more of your non-preferred functions into your conscious/developed Self. Talking to a J woman who aspires to be more of a P (and considers herself closer to the middle than I think she is) and who had recently been reading The Tao of Pooh, I pointed out that it's J's that have to read books to teach themselves to go with the flow. P's read books about how to get some damn discipline and organization into their lives. The going-with-the-flow bit comes naturally to them.

    Any reasonably thorough MBTI type profile will include lots of overlap with other types because you wouldn't want, e.g., an INTP profile to leave out significant personality characteristics that all INs tend to have in common. Here's a handful of things in your previous posts that I'd say are worth INTP-over-INFP points (rather than being things that I see as equally characteristic of both):

    Things you related to from INTJ profiles:
    They don't take criticism personally.
    May be unaware (and sometimes uncaring) of how they come across to others.
    May quickly dismiss input from others without really considering it
    The knowledge and self-confidence that make them so successful in other areas can suddenly abandon or mislead them in interpersonal situations.

    Things you related to from INTP profiles:
    Will often correct others (or be sorely tempted to) if the shade of meaning is a bit off.
    If they perceive that something is not logical, they reject it as unimportant.
    They may unknowingly or uncaringly hurt people's feelings.
    They may be completely unaware of the type of communication that is often desireable and (to some degree) expected in an intimate relationship.

    Things you related to from ENTP profiles:
    ENTPs ... generally love to argue--both for its own sake, and to show off their debating skills.
    ENTPs may sometimes give the impression of being largely oblivious to the rest of humanity except as an audience: good, bad, or potential.

    And a couple more quotes from you that vibe somewhat more INTP than INFP to me:

    Quote Originally Posted by stephsharik
    I find that I don't really care if my career is meaningful by improving people's lives or making the world a better place. "...mostly focused on finding one that will compensate you reasonably well for doing work that you find satisfying in terms of being interesting, challenging, and calling on your creativity/knowledge/skills, etc." seems to be about right to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by stephsharik
    Sometimes I debate for the sake of debating. It helps me analyze both sides of the argument and determine the positions that have merit. This has caused me trouble in the past.
    As I once said in an old J/P-related post at INTJforum...

    Quote Originally Posted by reckful
    It's something of an internet forum cliché, in my experience, that, if there's a single MBTI type most often associated with treating debates/discussions/etc. as games and being willing to take insincere positions, throw things out just to get a reaction, bullshit people and so on, it's the ENTP. By contrast, I think a typical INTJ engaged in a debate — especially if it's an issue they care much about or think there's a right and wrong perspective on — is more likely to come off as earnestly authentic, and demonstrate a drive to not only let people know what they really think, but also to try to change the mind of anybody who doesn't understand or otherwise has the wrong view. INTPs are one letter away from ENTPs and one letter away from INTJs but, in this case, I think it's the J/P that makes the most difference — making INTPs more like ENTPs than INTJs in this regard. So if you're significantly more inclined to treat a debate as an opportunity to enlighten the misguided than a coolly intellectual sport where you're happy to take either side, I'd say that's probably worth a point or two on the J side.
    ... and I'd say INFJs are even more earnest than INTJs, and that INFPs are more like INTJs and INFJs than NTPs in this respect. If an INFP is insincerely playing devil's advocate, they're not likely to hide it.

  6. #36

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    Thank you. I appreciate the time you invested in helping me sort some of this out. I have pretty much settled on INxP for the moment.

    However, I am curious. Would you mind telling me what it was made you rule out the other two types from the OP? (INTJ, ENTP)

  7. #37
    Senior Member reckful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephsharik View Post
    Thank you. I appreciate the time you invested in helping me sort some of this out. I have pretty much settled on INxP for the moment.

    However, I am curious. Would you mind telling me what it was made you rule out the other two types from the OP? (INTJ, ENTP)
    INxP makes sense to me.

    Aside from the fact that you just sound more like an introvert — albeit not a particularly strong introvert — than an extravert to me, I also noted that (after I ruled out EJ and EF) the fact that there was only one extraverted type that struck me as a possibility (as compared to three or four introverted types) seemed to me like a reasonably good corroborating indicator that you're probably an introvert (albeit, again, more likely a mild introvert than a strong introvert).

    And quite a bit of your self-description — especially given that you're Calm (rather than Limbic) on the Big Five neuroticism dimension — gave off non-INTJ vibes to me. You come across as significantly more people-focused, self-improvement-focused, spirituality-focused, modest, easygoing/accommodating (except for the occasional blowup, and almost everybody has occasional blowups) and forgiving than an INTJ tends to be, and I'd say your tendency to feel "unappreciated" is less characteristic of a typical INTJ than any of the other 16 types. I'm not saying I consider INTJ impossible, but it seems to me to be the least likely of the four IN types for you. I thought the "Not Me" stuff you picked from the INTJ pile was more significant than the "Not Me" stuff you picked for some of the other types, and I was also struck by the fact that you barely related to the ENTJ descriptions at all, since there's certainly quite a bit of INTJ/ENTJ overlap. And, although you also said you didn't feel like you related to the INFP descriptions very well, I'd say quite a bit of your self-descriptions sound reasonably consistent with INFPs (and especially male INFPs) — which is certainly what I'd expect if you're an INTP (or INxP). And on J/P stuff, your self-descriptions seemed, overall, more P-ish than J-ish to me.

  8. #38

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    Reckful, thanks for your time and effort. You've been a big help.

  9. #39
    Member Eye of the Potato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephsharik View Post
    My main interests (hobbies mostly?):
    Reading, (Mostly fiction, but gradually expanding my horizons to include theoretical books.)
    Philosophy
    Sketching
    Music/Songwriting/Poetry?Singing
    Educating myself/School (things that interest me, though)
    Making connections with people, building networks (for personal enrichment mostly, and potential usefulness in the future)
    Understanding how people work/function, especially myself
    Cooking (but only as a hobby)
    Some select sports.
    Road trips and general travelling.

    Career:
    I am in college, soon to be in a Dental Hygiene program. Before that, I was heading for a PharmD (Doctor of Pharmacy) program.
    I am majoring in dental hygiene because the pay is decent ("it's not about the money" kind of guy), very flexible schedule/hours, and it is low-risk in the sense that making mistakes have small consequences when compared to, say, surgeons, dentists, pharmacists. I backed out of pharmacy because of the difficulty of the program, the length of the program, and the controversy surrounding prescription medication.
    I find that I don't really care if my career is meaningful by improving people's lives or making the world a better place. "...mostly focused on finding one that will compensate you reasonably well for doing work that you find satisfying in terms of being interesting, challenging, and calling on your creativity/knowledge/skills, etc." seems to be about right to me.

    Tentative Self-Analysis
    I talk a lot, but what I say doesn't always have substance. I am generally friendly. People tend to be familiar with me (even when I don't really know them) and it is easy to get to know me. I look for the best in people, tend to be trusting about people's motives. I readily forgive and forget and give second chances.
    However, I often feel unappreciated and misunderstood. Sometimes I leave the crowds behind and seek my alone time. People energize me at times, and other times they suck the life out of me. Being alone is often stimulating for introspection, but sometimes it leaves me feeling drained.
    I dislike being the center of attention. (Though if I am comfortable enough with the people around me, or know what I am talking about, I will step into the limelight for a moment.)
    I handle responsibility well, (when I accept it), but I tend to shirk responsibility and accountability. I like to dream, and my mind wanders often. I am a bad listener, have difficulty focusing on sounds (unless it's music). I am fiercely loyal, and love to work. When I am told what to do, I do it well. When I am supposed to figure out what needs to be done on my own, I struggle. I have no desire to lead others or be in charge, but (when necessary) there are times when I take over and actually do lead.
    Not detail oriented, but very good at seeing the big picture. I keep an open mind about many things, unless I have become firm in my beliefs.
    Status doesn't really mean much to me. I don't care if someone is famous, or rich, or in an authoritative position. I am rarely impressed, (though I will act impressed for the sake of those trying so hard). I tend to be pragmatic and straightforward. "What you see is what you get" mostly applies to me.
    I am told that I am attractive, but I don't put a whole lot of meaning into that. I prefer attractive people, but I don't subscribe to the "beauty is good" fallacy.
    I have a quirky sense of humor, enjoying gags that are based on wordplay, contradictions/paradoxes, double-meanings, and can just barely tolerate puns. I am not very funny, but laugh often. (Though sometimes I fake laugh to show my appreciation for a joke/gag).
    I like melancholy, especially in music. Being sad or nostalgic paradoxically makes me happy. (That might not make sense, but oh well.)
    I desire perfection, order, and being systematic, but usually do not succeed in achieving any of those things and resign myself to this.
    Sometimes I debate for the sake of debating. It helps me analyze both sides of the argument and determine the positions that have merit. This has caused me trouble in the past.
    I grasp difficult concepts fairly quickly. I have an exceptional memory and I use my past memories and experiences to make connections and associations.
    I usually understand how and why certain systems work. I am able to explain why a person acted a certain way, or why an event unfolded the way it did. I understand the way people think and operate, but I have difficulty understanding their emotional state Here And Now. (their mood, their attitude towards me, subtle body language, hidden emotions-these things are not obvious to me)
    I have dedication/motivational issues. I have many, MANY plans and lists of things to do, but I rarely get started on them. And of the plans that I do get started on, few are completed.
    I can easily slip away into an imaginary world I created. These worlds always have sets of rules that they follow, systems and order. I create character profiles based on my past experiences with people and use anyone and everyone as a source for these profiles (including myself).
    These profiles help me understand human behavior and predict the actions of people I interact with.
    I have trouble leaving my comfort zone, but I am slowly pushing myself to expand its boundaries.
    In a group, I am at times loud and at other times quiet. It always depends on the people around me and on my mood. Sometimes I can greet a random stranger and hit it off, other times I can barely bring myself to ask what time it is. :|

    I greatly dislike cognitive function tests that ask me if I consider myself to be more introverted or extroverted because I am BOTH. I cannot honestly say that I am more one than the other.

    Anyways, I know this is a lot, but I am hoping that it will be useful to someone with a better understanding of the cognitive functions. I tried to research them myself, but found it difficult to stay objective.
    You're definitely leading with Ne anyway. How you describe the way your life is set up, that's definite Ne behaviour. The starting many, finishing few to none is the hallmark of Ne. So many possibilities and so little time, or will (weak Se) I'm just not sure if you're enfp or entp.
    People have an idea in their heads that enfp's are emotional and illogical, but actually we can be quite reasonable. We're reasonable people. Although we do blow up explosively when things get too much like you said you do. We value the practical side of life and because of our Fi, we don't like arguments that use emotional appeal, we'd prefer if it made sense. We prefer when the facts are the emotional appeal. They speak for themselves, there's no further meiowing about it necessary.

    When you say you like to imagine systems in your head, what kind of systems do you mean? Are they personal systems or impersonal systems?

    I understand the way people think and operate, but I have difficulty understanding their emotional state Here And Now. (their mood, their attitude towards me, subtle body language, hidden emotions-these things are not obvious to me)[QUOTE]



    This makes me think entp. That's a problem entp's have. Enfp's can feel how other people are feeling, so yeah you're probably not enfp
    Sorry for wasting your time.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Whatever type you score highest on when you take my mbti inventory.
    I can only imagine what type of person would fall for that line.

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