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  1. #1
    Member RisaMoccasin's Avatar
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    Default Confused.

    I've posted a bunch of questionnaires on all the different sites on the Internet. Eventually I decided I was an INFJ, but now I'm not so sure for numerous reasons--now I'm thinking ISFP.

    First, my childhood does not match a childhood INFJ, but it matches a childhood ISFP. Second, my mom says INFJ doesn't sound like me at all and ISFP is me to a T.

    Going to fill out a questionnaire from PerC rather than try to talk about all the important things (reason being I'll probably forget crucial things and stress unimportant ones), but before that, here was me as a child:

    From what I recall, which is foggy, I remember I made friends quickly and easily. I talked a lot whenever talking was allowed (I was good at following rules, so if someone told me to be quiet I would wait to talk again). I was, even at a very young age, very precocious, however. When I was 3 years old I took my first dance class and when we were backstage, everyone else started crying and saying they were afraid to go on. I flipped my little pigtails and said sassily, "If you don't want to go onstage, then I'll go all by myself and get the applause for ME!"
    ... xD

    I was a perfectionist. Sometimes I was really bossy about it. I wasn't trying to be mean or boss other people around, but I expected everyone else to have the same perfectionism that I did. Like when we all went onstage for the finale in our recital when I was probably 8, maybe 9, this other girl was wearing a T-shirt and capris and Crocs. I told her she should take her Crocs off because they weren't dance shoes (I was bothered by the fact that she wasn't wearing her costume, but didn't comment). She told me to stop being so bossy, and I remember that hurting my feelings.

    When I started piano lessons was because my brother had already started them, and after I heard him playing I wanted to. My mom talked to my piano teacher and my piano teacher said she thought I was too young--I was only 4. She said usually she doesn't start kids until they're 6, maybe 7, and she had never met a child that could sit still and follow directions for 30 minutes at any younger. Mom said she would pay her for a full lesson, to try it, and if I was squirmy she could send me out early and we'd wait a few years. I went in, was perfectly attentive the entire time, caught on easily, and never stopped taking lessons since.

    I loved stories. Loved them. I used to write stories all the time, tried writing novels that I always abandoned (though at the current date I have completed 3 novels, have my 4th planned out, and have edited 2 novels of mine thoroughly), and would read the same book 100 times over. Sometimes I would read 5 books at a time and keep all the details straight. I used to love writing Harry Potter fanfics and switching up the details, like Harry's parents didn't die until he was older right before he went to Hogwarts, or it was Ginny who was born to his parents instead, so on, so forth. One time when I was maybe 5 a man who's friends with my mom told me if I could write him a 10 page story he would give me a bunch of silver dollars. He didn't actually believe I could. I wrote him an 11 page story about him and his wife and how he saved her from a dragon.

    I really struggled with any school subject as a kid, though. I could barely retain history (unless it was the Holocaust, which I've always been very interested in, to this day), the scientific terms I couldn't keep straight confused me, and math frustrated me to the point I cried--especially when I got to multiplication and division. I do quite a bit better now, but getting the foundation down was really, really truly an uphill climb. It wasn't that I was lazy or ADHD. I focused very much and I wanted so badly to be good at it and I tried so hard, I just wasn't. I was a really smart kid, and everyone always told me I was a really smart kid, I just wasn't good at what you have to be good at to succeed in school.

    I was really extroverted if I remember. I followed people around and badgered them about things they didn't care about, although adults enjoyed talking to me (people always told my mom how good of a kid I was.) Around age 11 is when I started getting more introspective. I started finding myself awkward in social situations that I didn't used to be awkward in, and I found myself following my brother or any friends I knew around like a lost puppy because I didn't know what to do. There was no negative situation that triggered any kind of mental unhealthiness, I just started getting quieter and quieter. I was drained all the time because everyone saw me as a social butterfly and I wanted to meet their expectations, so I tried to force myself to extrovert. Around age 12-13 when I discovered MBTI I let myself be more introverted and now I'm more energetic than I was around 11-12.

    I was never really a space cadet like child INFJs and INFPs are described. I usually had my feet on the ground, despite my imaginative tendencies. I was never really shy, either.

    A close family friend dug out a picture of me as a baby awhile ago and brought it over for me to see. I was probably one, with a huge smile on my chubby face, a McDonald's cup in my hands that it looked like I was about to throw, and I was laughing hysterically in the picture. The family friend's comment: "Even as an infant, your engaging personality showed through!"

    Now I'm much more self conscious and introverted. I don't know if maybe I'm an unhealthy extrovert or if I'm confusing cognitive/social extrovertedness and introvertedness.


    I asked my mom what I was like as a kid for a second opinion. She told me a few things: When I was little, I was a very aggressive baby. She had to move me from my crib to my toddler bed at age 1 because I kept crawling over the side of my crib, knowing I was going to plummet and hit my head.

    She said I had to constantly be entertained--in church I would always run around and talk to the little girls next to me in effort to keep myself from getting too bored. She agreed with me on all of the aforementioned points that I brought up, and said I was very obedient. I showed her a list of ISFP child traits from PerC, here's her verdict:


    ISFP young ones will love to be held, snuggled, cuddled... (Yes)
    The ISFP baby really is a “cherub” smiling a lot early on (Yes)
    The ISFP will like some alone time but will happily play with anyone who wants to most of the time (Yes)
    These ... are especially the ones that may bond with a “blanky” (I had a blanky, a binky, and a teddy bear I drug around everywhere with me. She had to sew his ears back on multiple times)
    This “type” child will cry more than some others…especially if yelled at, responding to loud noises, if they think they are being criticized (Hit the nail right on the head)
    The ISFP child wants things to be soft, quiet, harmonious, friendly (yes)
    ISFPs are likely to play with kids smaller than themselves for security motivators (I was never really around younger kids, so nothing to judge)
    ISFPs usually like music, painting, drawing, clay, etc….creative ones loving “sensory” pleasures…they will explore quicker than others (Yes)
    The ISFP child is easy-going, flexible, compliant most of the time, will shy away from anger, bullying, yelling, etc. (yes)
    This child also need alone time (Yes)
    The ISFP is the epitome of putting everything in the mouth ... (She doesn't remember)
    The ISFP may suck their thumbs…need a bottle for longer periods of time ... (No)
    ISFPs will usually share their feeling, getting hurt easily, wanting friend, etc. (yes)
    ISFPs can excel athletically due to their sensing…but they really like the “group” team thing…want and need others….selectively (Yes at athletic excel. Depends on the team, she says.)
    ISFPs love animals and have a kinship with them of sorts (Completely true)
    For the adolescent ISFP ... they may underachieve academically... (Very true)
    The ISFP adolescent will learn better with a teacher they’ve bonded with in a more one-on-one environment (Still true to this day)
    They can be wonderful story tellers…natural grasp of the detailed and are dominantly “feeling” and emotional (Completely true)
    In High School the ISFP may have difficulty declaring independence…they bond with parents, siblings strongly (Not really)
    The adolescent ISFP may struggle with long range planning, college, career, etc more than some others (Definitely not, I had my career planned at age 10)
    ISFPs have natural difficulty following/remembering rules, regulations, etc. (Absolutely not. Again, I was very obedient and got bossy if others didn't follow the rules.)


    So, if you're still here after that wall of text, here's the PerC questionnaire. XD


    1. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.

    I have no mental illnesses that I know of. Currently I'm pretty tired physically but I'm focused mentally, so it should be fine. I'm 15 years old, female, and fairly certain my enneagram is 4w3-6w7-9w1 so/sx.


    2. What type(s) do you usually score as on tests?

    In no particular order: ISFP, INFP, INFJ most often. I have occasionally gotten ENFJ and ESFP.


    3. Click on this link: https://secure.flickr.com/explore/ Choose 2 photos and look at each for as long as you feel that you need. Copy and paste the photos here and write your impression of each of them.

    https://secure.flickr.com/photos/ube...ore-2013-10-10

    I love the vividity. The clear cut line between where the rolling hills start and where the blue sky stops. The reflections in the water are stunningly gorgeous. Where the body of water drops off to what looks like a beach-y thing, it's almost like an optical illusion--I can't tell if there's a gap between the two where the water continues pouring down like a waterfall, or if it just stops there. There isn't much else to say besides the fact that it's very beautiful and vivid.

    https://secure.flickr.com/photos/610...ore-2013-10-10

    This picture feels almost haunting. I find it sucking me in. I wonder why the ship is sinking, and why it hasn't been totally submerged--is something underneath it? I wonder what the story of the ship is and where it is. Sometimes I find black and white pictures boring, but this one I find beautifully artistic. I just wish that I knew more about it. The ship seems strong and proud and profound, in some subconscious way, and is striking.


    4. You are on the clock to fix something, a friend of yours sits beside you and gives a lot of interesting ideas, none of them actually help or are related to your situation, but they are still something you find interesting. What is your reaction? What do you say? What do you do? What's your train of thought?

    I would end up trying to split my attention between what I was fixing and the friend I was listening to--probably tuning the friend out and forgetting most of what they said. I would feel awful about this, so when they finished talking I would just make a bunch of noncommittal comments or comments that wouldn't tip them off that I hadn't been paying attention. Maybe later on I would try to get them to talk about it to me again without telling them that I'd been tuning them out. Like, "I was telling X friend about what you were saying about X topic, but I couldn't quite recall everything you were saying--could you tell me what you think again? I found it really interesting." I would probably be a little annoyed that they were talking to me while I was fixing something ("can't you see I'm busy?" in my head) but I would never say so for fear of upsetting them.


    5a. What are some of your most important values?

    Purity in most senses of the word. Love, friendship, loyalty, protection, safety, kindness. I also think you should know who you are and think past the superficial things in life. I think everyone is a human being and thus even if you disagree you should be very kind to one another.


    5b. Can they change? What would be the reason if they changed?

    If I got a lot of external input that eventually swayed me to research it and realize I was wrong, or a little input from someone that I saw highly, it would probably change. At this point, however, I've done enough research that I think those are pretty cemented in my life. I have a hard time with not being stubborn, so I may not admit that I was wrong if I realized that I was, but I wouldn't be stubborn to the point of stupidity. If no one could offer me any proof that I was wrong, or someone made a moronic argument about why I was wrong, then I would just laugh and brush it off.


    6. You are in a car with some other people, the people in the car are talking. Someone makes a claim that you see as immoral/rude/cruel. What is your inward reaction? What do you think? What do you say?

    Depends on what it was. If it wasn't something I felt really strongly about, I would just try to stay out of the debate/conversation/whatever until I got dragged in. If I did feel strongly about it, I would very kindly and passively state my opinion. If it was something I felt was a direct attack against me, I would feel offended, but avoid saying anything if at all possible. (I know a friend who was anorexic and went through a phase of calorie restricting myself, and I once heard a girl I know telling one of her friends "Today I didn't eat at all cuz I wanted to know what it would be like to be anorexic!" My friend who used to have an eating disorder and I just looked at each other, and I texted her and said "Anyone else feel personally offended?" I would have never brought it up to the other girls, though.) If I said anything, I would be very passive and avoid sounding like I was being stuck up or snobbish or unreasonable at all.


    7. a) What activities energizes you the most? Why?

    I have many artistic endeavors, but not all of them charge me... but not all of them drain me. Does that make sense? Dancing onstage charges me hugely. Learning choreography does not, but it doesn't drain me. Playing piano doesn't charge me, nor does it drain me, and I enjoy the ability to play it. Painting and drawing charges me sometimes, and don't charge me other times (but don't drain me either). Typically if painting charges me, it's something that was SUPER inspired that I listened to intense music while painting. Writing charges me a little, but not significantly. Writing psychology papers neither charges or drains me, and I enjoy it.

    The time I remember feeling the most charged, it was a really nice day outside and I just laid out in a swimsuit to get a bit of a tan. I just stared up at the sky, feeling the wind on my skin, the towel under my back, and taking in the clouds. I wasn't even trying to find shapes in them, I was just looking at them. I was in a thought process so deep I didn't even know what I was thinking about.

    Also, watching really artistic videos with beautiful cinematography and deep meanings, or really great AMVs, or movies, can really charge me. Examples:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R63ufdyiiw8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sh4GlJ-UlA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5k6GFVlnMo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py_-3di1yx0



    7. b) What activities drains you the most? Why?

    Math. Too much logic necessary. Science. Too much theoretical memorization necessary. Logical debates (especially against NTs, ESPECIALLY against INTJs, ESPECIALLY against INTJs on a topic I'm not the most informed on that they have looked into extensively. It's a death sentence for me) and talking to people who aren't very understanding.


    8. Do you believe you are introverted or extroverted? Why do you believe that? (Please be as detailed as possible)

    I think I'm introverted. When I'm around a lot of people, I go into sensory overload and completely withdraw and space out just a little bit. This is worse if it's with people I don't like. If it's with a small group that I feel comfortable around, I can pull myself out enough to interact with them, but it really doesn't energize me. I feel the most myself and the most in my comfort zone when I'm alone or talking to people on Facebook or texting them, doing my own thing--whatever I may feel like doing that day.

    Sometimes, if I'm with the right people at the right time of day doing the right thing, I can get really really charged, but just interacting with people for the sake of being around people isn't really my thing.


    9. Please describe yourself, what do you see as your greatest strengths and what do you see as your greatest weaknesses?

    Describe myself? That's a big task and not an easy one. I seem really cheerful and not very deep (though not shallow or superficial) on the outside, but I have so many theories and emotions that I keep private on the inside. Even if I want to explain them to someone I don't know how. I feel really misunderstood a lot of the time. I hate being unique but I love it so much that I want to be, if that makes any sense. I want to be seen as artistic, but I think sometimes my fashion just comes across as eccentric. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is if other people think being eccentric is bad. I really love feeling needed and helping other people with their problems and I'm really finely tuned to the emotions of everyone else in a room but I don't know when to stop. It's like I just keep giving and giving even when there's nothing left to give and even when the other person just completely ignores me. I don't really get enough sleep almost ever (or I get too much) and I either eat too much or too little. I have grand plans and schemes for 5, 10 years in the future but no idea of how to get to them. I can be perfectionistic to a fault, and I tend too demand too much of myself and it can result in anxiety triggers. (The last two years I bombed my piano recital pieces due to not enough time to practice, despite being my teacher's best pianist--she said so, not me, I feel really awkward saying that XD--and now I feel anxious any time I play a piano recital piece for anyone even if it's not in a recital because I've set the expectations so high for myself that this year must be my comeback year!)

    I can also be really manipulative, which makes me feel really bad because I hate doing that to other people and I think they'd hate me if they knew, but I have such a hard time not doing it. I know what other people's buttons are and exactly how to make them feel what I want them to feel for them to do what I want them to do.


    10. Please describe yourself when you are feeling stressed. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.

    I get really OCD. I'll dust my desk 5 times because I want to clean and I've run out of things to clean. Make sure my hair is perfect, not a strand out of place, and the wings of my eyeliner are perfectly even. I get really antsy and need to be in motion and doing something productive. I feel sick to my stomach and literally don't know how to make my muscles not tense. When I was around 12 if I got really stressed out I would sometimes snap at people, but I always felt really really really really really horribly awful, like I was going to puke, so I stopped doing that lol. So I guess now I'm mostly OCD.


    11. What is your "soft spot" (the area that makes you upset if people mess with)?

    I don't really know if I have one. I guess injustice makes me really mad/sad/lots of other things, and if people are trying to hurt me and they take it out on my boyfriend I get pretty upset. I'm not a person that gets super angry or super sad at the drop of a hat, though, so I don't really know what the one thing is that would make me more upset than anything. There are lots of things that I feel strongly about, but not a button to push if you will.


    12. What are most of the ideas/thoughts you get generally centered around (try to expand your answers as much as possible)?

    This is another tough one. When I think, it's so deep that I don't even know what I'm thinking about half the time if someone asks me. Well, I know, but I have no clue how to articulate it.

    Lots of times I'm really poetic. I tend to think about people and their emotions a lot, and I kind of theorize a lot. It's not really logical though, it's more of about the nature of people--how we're so wonderfully broken and complete all at once, and all the different things that split us up into different pieces or can repair us. That kind of thing. I'm really not sure how to answer this question, it's so difficult to put my thoughts into words.


    13. What's your opinion of getting frequent feedback on what you do? (Someone pointing out what is good, what is bad, what and how to improve) Is there a limit to how often you want feedback? If so, what is the limit?

    Depends on what it is. If I drew something and the proportions were off, and someone says, "You did really good on the shading but her head is like a huge watermelon", I may be a little irritated by the lack of tact in the phrasing but I would completely take the criticism because it was legit. If someone told me, "The forest is great but I think you need to add an animal!" I would be like "okay thanks for your input" but I would be thinking "Maybe I didn't want any animals in it, did you think of that? Maybe I wanted it to be mysterious and abandoned. Maybe if you want animals in a painting you should paint your own." Basically, if the criticism had a base I would happily take it, if not I would be annoyed--especially if it wasn't asked for.

    Also, if someone gives me a criticism just because they don't like me. In dance, there's this other girl, and we have about the same skill level, the same strengths and weaknesses. Everyone loves her, but they don't really like me. So a lot of the time they'll give me criticisms about things her and I are both doing wrong, but they'll say she doesn't do the same thing even if she does. It really annoys me because it's not fair.


    14. Anything beyond what has been discussed that you would like to add?

    I tend to have difficulty describing myself accurately because I'll act like what everyone else expects of me. Right now I think you're all going to say ISFP and my mom said ISFP, so I'm portraying my Se. When I'm talking to someone who thinks I'm an INFJ, I tend to be more artistic and metaphorical in my word use. All of these are me, I'm not pretending to be something I'm not, and I feel like me while I'm doing it, but I'm showing a part of me, not the whole. I have a lot of layers and so the layer typically comes out that other people want to see/think they'll see. I have a hard time even knowing if I'm being truthful to myself because of the extent of this, I even do it internally. Like I said, I'm not acting--I'm being me--but the different sides of me are so drastically different that one person could say I was a type completely opposite of another.

    So, yeah. Thanks for sticking around, that was probably a monster post. xD Input, please!

  2. #2
    Member RisaMoccasin's Avatar
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    I know that whatever type I am uses Se and Ni. I'm just uncertain about F/T. Good arguments can be made both ways, in my opinion, so one has to be stronger than the other to win me over.

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    You're interesting, whatever you are.

    I think Fi-dom sounds fair, probably ISFP. You seem to do a lot of post-processing, something I believe a lot attribute (wrongfully) to Ni.

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    Member RisaMoccasin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    You're interesting, whatever you are.

    I think Fi-dom sounds fair, probably ISFP. You seem to do a lot of post-processing, something I believe a lot attribute (wrongfully) to Ni.
    I take that as a compliment XD

    The only thing about Fi vs. Fe that throws me for a loop is that a lot of Fi-doms have a "button" that gets pushed and they get upset at the drop of a hat, right? I know three INFPs and an ISFP personally in real life, and I don't really relate to them much, which is part of my sources of confusion. They can suddenly get really, really upset and do something really impulsively like the ISFP thought my boyfriend and I were ignoring her, so she unfriended both of us on Facebook, then she felt bad about it but was too awkward to bring it up until we did. INFP #1 will get into arguments with her mom and storm out of the house with no explanation, not thinking ahead to realize that it's dark outside and she's a teenage girl wandering alone. INFP #2 will randomly disappear off the face of the earth because she feels like disappearing for awhile.

    I never do anything like that. I always consider the feelings of other people first. I'm a slow-simmerer, and I can only recall maybe once in my life that I blew up--which was during the most negative emotional experience of my life. I almost always text back or apologize for not texting back, even if I don't feel like talking to the person and don't really owe them an explanation. I start to doubt myself if I get negative/contrary input from the external world. And if me holding emotions in to the point of having anxiety attacks is what it takes for someone else's happiness/comfort then that's what I'll do.

    And the thing I mentioned where my personality shifts a lot despite me thinking I'm being honest doesn't sound like Fi to me because I think they have stronger senses of self and more stable personalities.

    Can you see where I'm confused? Both Fi and Fe make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RisaMoccasin View Post
    I take that as a compliment XD

    The only thing about Fi vs. Fe that throws me for a loop is that a lot of Fi-doms have a "button" that gets pushed and they get upset at the drop of a hat, right? I know three INFPs and an ISFP personally in real life, and I don't really relate to them much, which is part of my sources of confusion. They can suddenly get really, really upset and do something really impulsively like the ISFP thought my boyfriend and I were ignoring her, so she unfriended both of us on Facebook, then she felt bad about it but was too awkward to bring it up until we did. INFP #1 will get into arguments with her mom and storm out of the house with no explanation, not thinking ahead to realize that it's dark outside and she's a teenage girl wandering alone. INFP #2 will randomly disappear off the face of the earth because she feels like disappearing for awhile.

    I never do anything like that. I always consider the feelings of other people first. I'm a slow-simmerer, and I can only recall maybe once in my life that I blew up--which was during the most negative emotional experience of my life. I almost always text back or apologize for not texting back, even if I don't feel like talking to the person and don't really owe them an explanation. I start to doubt myself if I get negative/contrary input from the external world. And if me holding emotions in to the point of having anxiety attacks is what it takes for someone else's happiness/comfort then that's what I'll do.

    And the thing I mentioned where my personality shifts a lot despite me thinking I'm being honest doesn't sound like Fi to me because I think they have stronger senses of self and more stable personalities.

    Can you see where I'm confused? Both Fi and Fe make sense.
    Hmm. Well, from my understanding, Fi can be a lot like what you described - holding in emotions until it causes a panic attack. I think that's a pretty big factor of what differentiates Fi from Fe - Fi attempts to internalize rationality, Fe externalizes it at whatever the cost.

    I can't really question that you're an F type. Maybe you're xSFJ? ESFJ's are known as notoriously bossy around here :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Hmm. Well, from my understanding, Fi can be a lot like what you described - holding in emotions until it causes a panic attack. I think that's a pretty big factor of what differentiates Fi from Fe - Fi attempts to internalize rationality, Fe externalizes it at whatever the cost.

    I can't really question that you're an F type. Maybe you're xSFJ? ESFJ's are known as notoriously bossy around here :P
    I explored the possibility of ISFJ a long time ago, but I'm certain I don't use Si and I didn't relate to inferior Ne whatsoever.

    Here's kind of my run down on how I relate to Fe and Fi. (I tried to do Te and Ti as well, but I don't relate strongly to either so it was difficult for me to find examples. I gave up on it.)

    Fe

    I constantly look to the external world for input. Even if I don't want to or I don't want it to matter or I know I'm right, someone else saying I'm not right can immediately make me doubt myself. I have a very comforting demeanor and my friends know me as their "shoulder to cry on". I empathize with people very well. There are people I've comforted in situations I have never been in (such as psychotic episodes) who told me I was very comforting because I wasn't being sympathetic; I was being empathetic. I reassure people a lot and understand them very well, though not to a conscious extent that I can put into words. I love studying the emotions of other people only to understand them and better help them. I've cried over people that I never even met who died simply because they were so precious to so many people, it was like a huge wall of pain hitting me reading all of the comments. (Talia Joy Castellano is a good example of when this happened to me.)

    I often have difficulty understanding my own emotions or what I'm feeling, especially when I've just been in an emotion where many other people were emotional around me. I often shove aside my own pain to help others through theirs. I give and give and give until I wear myself thin, having no more to give, but then I still give even more. I give oceans to people who wouldn't cross puddles for me simply because I feel bad not helping them, despite the fact that I know they don't deserve my help. It's actually a really unhealthy trait because I've given to the point that I had nothing left for myself anymore and became very unhealthy.

    For me to be peaceful, the environment around me has to be peaceful, especially the people.


    Fi

    I have a lot of morals that I refuse to give up (though I'm not pushy on other people with them). I feel what I'm feeling intensely but I have no idea how to verbally express it... and now that I have to describe uses of Fe in myself, I have no clue when I use it.

    Sigh. We'll come back to this if I remember.

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    No further input?

    I think I've come back to INFJ for the time being, but I'm still uncertain--I'd love input.

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    I actually prepared a post for this thread last weekend and then decided, since you only had 40 posts, that I'd browse them as further research, and one of the first ones I read (from last summer) said you were 14 and I said, meh, life's too short to spend time typing 15-year-olds.

    Nothing personal; and I'll be the first to admit, I was 15 once.

    And in case it helps you understand my reaction, I spent three years at INTJforum before I started posting at any other MBTI forums, and you have to be 18 to be an INTJforum poster. Plus I was already participating in several other type-me threads.

    But OK, fine, here's the post I prepared. It's just based on your posts in this thread.

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    You sure sound like an INF to me, and I lean more P than J — although I think J/P may be the dimension where you're closest to the borderline, and INFJ's my second choice. INFP is the best match for Enneagram 4w3, and I talk about that a little more in one of the linked posts (below).

    I'd be curious to see your results on the official "Step I" MBTI, which you can take here.

    There's a well-established fifth temperament dimension that isn't included in the Myers-Briggs typology and is often referred to as "neuroticism" (although it isn't a psychological disorder). The Big Five/SLOAN typology labels it Emotional Stability and refers to the two poles as Calm and Limbic. Being Limbic on that dimension tends to be associated with, among other things, anxiety/worry-proneness; emotional sensitivity/volatility; proneness to annoyance/irritation; self-consciousness; and (sometimes) depression. I'm Limbic, and it makes me less of a cucumber than some of my fellow INTJs. Your OP makes it sound like you may be Limbic, and being Limbic can sometimes muddy the water for somebody trying to figure out their T/F preference.

    If you're interested, I'd also be curious to see your results — including the percentage scores — on this similarminds Big Five/SLOAN test,, which will (purport to) type you on the Emotional Stability dimension (in addition to the four Big Five dimensions with substantial MBTI correlations). And I've put some more information about the Big Five and that similarminds test in the spoiler.



    If you want quite a bit of input from me on S vs. N and T vs. F and INFPs in particular, you'll find it in these three posts:


    Those are all in Polly's type-me thread, and I think she's a fellow INFP, although I think she's closer than you to the E/I borderline and, in fact, she's decided on ENFP for her own type for now (although she also has another type-me thread in progress...) and you may be closer than she is to the J/P borderline.

    As I said at the top, I really think you're an INF, so I wouldn't be all that inclined (at this point, anyway) to have you be spending much time on the T/F stuff in those posts, but you said in your second post that you were "uncertain about F/T" so, if you're interested, there's a lot of T/F there.

    If you're going to take the two tests, what you might want to do is post those results and get some feedback on that before you dive in to any of the linked posts. INFs have somewhat of a tendency to test as INTs (and I discuss that in the third linked Polly-thread post) but, especially if the test results (on top of your OP) make it look like you're pretty clearly an F, I'd say there might not be any reason (for your own self-typing purposes, anyway) for you to be reading much of my linked T/F stuff.

    I see I gave Polly my Keirsey-on-NFs summary but not my Keirsey-on-NTs summary and I'm not sure why (probably just a goof). In any case, and just in case you end up looking into that first linked post, I've put a supplemental Keirsey-on-NTs paste in the next spoiler.



    Also, in case they're of any use to you, the last spoiler has online profile roundups for the four IN types. (And I threw in ISFP, too, but that's not because I think it's a likely possibility. Calling ISFPs the "Artists" was arguably Keirsey's single greatest fuckup, and I talk about that in the second of those Polly-thread posts.)

    If your test results seem to narrow you down to two (or three) likeliest possibilities, a possible way to give prospective type-me contributors more information to go on is to read through some profiles of those types and post about anything in them that provokes a notably strong "that's me" or "that's not me" reaction — but, if you're going to take those linked tests and post your results, you may want to do that first and wait to get some more feedback on those (and your OP) before you decide which profiles it makes sense to be reading.



    As a final note: To the extent that you've been trying to type yourself by way of cognitive function tests or analysis, that's a mistake, IMHO. Assuming you have reasonably well-defined preferences, I think you're more likely to correctly type yourself using dichotomy-based tests than cognitive functions tests. And if you've got one or more preferences that are in or near the middle, I think dichotomy-based tests are more likely to correctly indicate that situation as well. Even cognitive function aficionados generally don't claim that there's any test they can point you to that's particularly likely to give you results that place your dominant function in first place and your auxiliary function in second place — never mind ID-ing your tertiary and inferior functions in any easy-to-spot way. Dario Nardi's considered one of the leading cognitive functions guys and his test is arguably the most-linked-to cognitive functions test — but, as further discussed in this post, INTJs typically get high Ni scores and high Ne scores (with Ni not substantially favored over Ne), and high Te scores and high Ti scores (with Te not substantially favored over Ti), when they take Nardi's test.

    Above and beyond the test problems, I don't think the cognitive functions are the appropriate way to frame MBTI type — and that's actually the majority view out in the real world, although you'd never guess it from browsing MBTI-related internet forums. I think Reynierse is probably correct (in the article linked below) to call the functions a "category mistake." Just in case you have any interest — and only if you have any interest — in hearing why I consider myself a "dichotomies guy," you'll find quite a lot of explanation in this long INTJforum post.

    Links in INTJforum posts don't work if you're not a member, so here are replacements for the two links in that post:


    In any case, as a last note on the functions front: Don't make the mistake of getting thrown off by those silly online Ni descriptions that make it sound like, if you're an IN_J, you should be reading people's minds and having prophetic future visions.

    PLEASE NOTE: I'm both an MBTI dweeb and a hardcore T, and I don't do long posts like this (most of which are recycled anyway) as selfless, other-oriented "acts of service" — so please don't feel the slightest obligation to take either of those tests or read any of those linked posts or otherwise pay any attention to anything in this post beyond what you're motivated to do for your own selfish reasons.

  9. #9
    Member RisaMoccasin's Avatar
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    I'm a lot more mature now than I was in my original Type Me stuff, and much more developed. Some stuff happened a few months ago that really forced me to mature even further past the age I am as my way of handling it, and I would say I'm a much more logical person. My ability to articulate myself has very much improved, and I really feel like I'm 17 instead of 15. I'll probably be easier to type this time around due to this.


    Quote Originally Posted by reckful
    You sure sound like an INF to me, and I lean more P than J — although I think J/P may be the dimension where you're closest to the borderline, and INFJ's my second choice. INFP is the best match for Enneagram 4w3, and I talk about that a little more in one of the linked posts (below).

    I'd be curious to see your results on the official "Step I" MBTI, which you can take here.

    I don't think I'm an INFP because INFPs use Ne and Si. I barely relate to Ne and I don't relate to Si almost at all, but I'm open to your feedback.

    On the Step I test, I received INFJ.



    Preference clarity
    I
    clear
    N
    clear
    F
    clear
    J
    moderate


    Introversion won to extroversion 19 to 2. N won to S 21 to 5. F won to T 21 to 3. J won to P 16 to 6.



    If you're interested, I'd also be curious to see your results — including the percentage scores — on this similarminds Big Five/SLOAN test,, which will (purport to) type you on the Emotional Stability dimension (in addition to the four Big Five dimensions with substantial MBTI correlations). And I've put some more information about the Big Five and that similarminds test in the spoiler.
    What you said about Limbic muddying the waters I find really interesting. It's neat to see how the different personality theories, while mostly being opposites, end up supporting, validating and going hand-in-hand with each other.

    On the similarminds test for the Big Five, I got this result (lo and behold):


    Extroversion
    ||||||
    26%
    Orderliness
    ||||||||||||||||
    68%
    Emotional Stability
    ||||||
    24%
    Accommodation
    ||||||||||||||||
    62%
    Inquisitiveness
    ||||||
    30%

    Extroversion results were low which suggests you are very reclusive, quiet, unassertive, and private.
    Orderliness results were moderately high which suggests you are, at times, overly organized, neat, structured and restrained at the expense too often of flexibility, variety, spontaneity, and fun.
    Emotional Stability results were low which suggests you are very worrying, insecure, emotional, and anxious.
    Accommodation results were moderately high which suggests you are, at times, overly kind natured, trusting, and helpful at the expense of your own individual development (martyr complex).
    Inquisitiveness results were low which suggests you are overly small minded, traditional, and conventional at the expense too often of intellectual curiousity, possibility, and progress.
    Your Global5/SLOAN type is RLOAN
    Your Primary type is Limbic

    As I said at the top, I really think you're an INF, so I wouldn't be all that inclined (at this point, anyway) to have you be spending much time on the T/F stuff in those posts, but you said in your second post that you were "uncertain about F/T" so, if you're interested, there's a lot of T/F there.
    I'm not as uncertain that my preference is F than I am about the four different functions—I can make good arguments, as I said, for using both Fe and Fi, and for using both Te and Ti. I know I basically have to be an IxFx, but it's a matter of where is my feeling directed and where is my thinking directed—externally or internally? So if there's stuff about the four functions and not just the dichotomy of T and F, I will happily read it!
    I will go ahead and read the posts now.
    I have a lot of feedback on your posts as in how I relate to them, so I'll include that, as that could possibly be helpful:

    Before this quote, I relate a lot to both the N and the S descriptions, but the Ns I think I relate to a little more. Now we get to here:
    “Kroeger and Thuesen say N's …. "are usually more excited about where they're going than where they are"” I'm not unhappy with where I am for the time being, but I often find myself looking forward to the future and getting excited for things that I have planned that are months away—and yet, I know when I get to them, I'll be looking forward to the next thing instead of enjoying that thing. Or I'll enjoy it for about 10 or so minutes before continuing to look forward.

    “Keirsey also notes that an N child "may be difficult to handle. He always seems to have a core of 'being his own person' which adults sometimes find objectionable and offensive. ... He may seem opinionated to others, the NT in particular, and he often is very certain that he knows; at the same time, he cannot justify his convictions to others' satisfaction when questioned."” I don't really relate to this quote much because, as I said, I was a very obedient child. I was very much myself, and very creative, and thought of many things that shocked adults and made them call me precocious, but because of my maturity beyond my years I followed rules easily and often tried to remind others to follow them. Adults thoroughly enjoyed my company because I was a bright kid and other kids usually hated my company because I was a 'bossy know it all'. It could, perhaps, simply be the group of adults that I was exposed to, but I doubt it. I knew a lot of different adults of different personalities from different walks of life.

    I relate to Polly in that she said she seems to fit to some extent under many enneagram types, however despite my qualities fitting under many, I just feel a “calling” to type 4. It seems like it just IS me, despite how well others may fit. That's why I decided to settle on that. (If that tidbit has any worth or meaning.)

    This may have very little to do with my type, but I didn't, however, relate to the bit about INFPs always feeling restless in their relationships. Sometimes I can feel like something needs to be changed in my relationship, but then I change it. I actually am internally a very romantic person. I think relationships are beautiful and sometimes I don't know what I would do without my boyfriend (he's an INTP). He can get on my nerves sometimes because he can so often ramble or bounce from place to place, even after the conclusion has been decided upon, but we work on our flaws together and lean on each other to make up for the not so great qualities about the other person.

    I would say I can feel self-conscious of myself when I try to express romantic affection to him, but I have basically invented a whole other language to tell him how much I love him, and he accepts it. We've been together for over a year and a half and still that isn't long enough—I look forward to two years, three years, four years, forty years.

    And the way that's more characteristic (I'd say) of an INFP would be to view the world of "romance" in somewhat bohemian/unconventional terms — as a rich world full of possibilities for different kinds of experiences with different kinds of people. For someone with that kind of perspective, confining yourself to a single partner is like a food lover being stuck eating only, say, Chinese food. And that may be "unromantic" in conventional terms, but you could also see it as an idealistic standard of love/sex/romance as a potentially rich and life-expanding cornucupia that no one relationship could ever hope to live up to — and "free love" and polyamory and similar kinds of movements are often framed in that kind of idealistic way.
    I would honestly die. Lol. My love is deep between the INTP and I. He's always there for me to depend on and I am for him. I don't think you can have true love with many different people, I think you can only have it with one person. In fact, we've promised to each other many times over that we are with each other, and thus will not go for anyone else romantically or sexually. We're very dedicated to each other and would be very hurt if the other person cheated or wanted a polyamorous (SP?) relationship.
    I do kind of see love as an opportunity for rich experiences, but only with THE person you love, not THE people you love. I would never impose this belief on others, however. If they're into polyamory and that kind of thing they can go for it. Just not for me, lol.

    That said, though, I'd also note that a fair amount of skittishness when it comes to settling on a supposedly lifelong choice of a romantic partner tends to be at least somewhat characteristic of young people of most types.
    I knew by age 14 that my INTP is who I wanted to be with and who I wanted to raise my children, and I had inklings before my 14th birthday. So that doesn't apply to me.


    I've already read basically all of the type profiles you linked me to. XD I don't relate to INFPs at all in most descriptions, I relate to ISFPs strongly in some descriptions and I basically always relate to INFJs. (I'm taking into account both behavior/trait descriptions, function descriptions and dichotomy descriptions.)

    To the extent that you've been trying to type yourself by way of cognitive function tests or analysis, that's a mistake, IMHO. Assuming you have reasonably well-defined preferences, I think you're more likely to correctly type yourself using dichotomy-based tests than cognitive functions tests.
    In my opinion I find that dichotomies can be good and functions can be good. I find functions more reliable, though, for many reasons—but if you'd like to try dichotomy typing on me, feel free to do so.

    In any case, as a last note on the functions front: Don't make the mistake of getting thrown off by those silly online Ni descriptions that make it sound like, if you're an IN_J, you should be reading people's minds and having prophetic future visions.
    Lol no. No one is a psychic, and if they were it wouldn't have anything to do with type. The thing that I relate to in Ni descriptions is the way they perceive information and how they easily make connections. I can predict some future patterns others don't because they're more obscure patterns and I'm in tune with patterns, but not because I'm 'psychic.' Just because it makes sense to me.

    PLEASE NOTE: I'm both an MBTI dweeb and a hardcore T, and I don't do long posts like this … as selfless, other-oriented "acts of service" — so please don't feel the slightest obligation to take either of those tests or read any of those linked posts or otherwise pay any attention to anything in this post beyond what you're motivated to do for your own selfish reasons.
    I took them and read them because knowledge is the only thing that's truly yours. No one can take it away.
    Besides, the more I take and read the more people have to type me with.


    Now, moving on to what I relate to in INFJ, ISFP and INFP profiles. I'll just pick one profile of each that I found the most reliable/relatable/informed, as I told you I've basically read every one that you've linked. We'll go with the “Please Understand Me”.


    We'll start with INFP. I'll say what I relate to and omit what I don't relate to. Things like the midlife section I'll omit, as I'm not middle aged yet, and things like what they would be like with their children is how I want to/plan to be with my children.

    INFPs present a calm, pleasant face to the world and are seen as reticent and even shy. Although they demonstrate a cool reserve toward others, inside they are anything but distant. …. At times, this characteristic leaves them feeling isolated …. They often have a subtle tragic motif running through their lives, but others seldom detect this inner minor key …. The deep commitment of INFPs to the positive and the good causes them to be alert to the negative and the evil, which can take the form of a fascination with the profane. Thus INFPs may live a paradox, drawn toward purity and unity but looking over the shoulder toward the sullied and desecrated. ….

    They respond to the beautiful versus the ugly, the good versus the bad, and the moral versus the immoral. …

    At work … are well aware of people and their feelings … INFPs dislike telephone interruptions and work well alone, as well as with others. They can make errors of fact, but seldom of values. Their career choices may be toward … psychiatry … psychology – and away from business. They seem willing and usually are able to apply themselves scholastically to gain the
    necessary training for professional work …. They … demonstrate, as do the other NF’s a remarkable facility for
    languages. Often they hear a calling to go forth into the world to help others … INFPs can make outstanding novelists....
    As mates, INFPs have a deep commitment to their pledges. They like to live in harmony and may go to great lengths to avoid constant conflict. They are sensitive to the feelings of others and enjoy pleasing those they care for. … They may have difficulty in expressing affection directly, but communicate interest and affection indirectly. For INFPs, their home is their castle. As parents, they are fierce in protections of home and family and are devoted to the welfare of family members. They have a strong capacity for devotion, sympathy, and adaptability in their relationships, and thus are easy to live with. They are loyal to their family....

    (omitting the midlife section because I obviously haven't reached that yet. Lol)

    “Life,” says the INFP, “is a very serious matter.”




    INFJ
    INFJs focus on possibilities, think in terms of values and come easily to decisions. … INFJs have unusually strong drive to contribute to the welfare of others and genuinely enjoy helping their fellow men. This type has great depth of personality; they are themselves complicated, and can understand and deal with complex issues and people.
    ... Characteristically, INFJs have strong empathic abilities and can be aware of another’s emotions or intents even before that person is conscious of these. This can take the form of feeling the distress of illnesses of others to an extent, which is difficult for other types. INFJs can intuit good and evil in others, although they seldom can tell how they came to know. Subsequent events tend to bear them out, however.
    INFJs are usually good students, achievers who exhibit an unostentatious creativity. They take their work seriously and enjoy academic activity. They can exhibit qualities of over perfectionism and put more into a task than perhaps is justified by the nature of the task. They generally will not be visible leaders, but will quietly exert influence behind the scenes.
    INFJs are hard to get to know. They have an unusually rich inner life, but they are reserved and tend not to share their reactions except with those they trust. Because of their vulnerability through a strong facility to introject, INFJs can be hurt rather easily by others, which, perhaps, is at least one reason they tend to be private people. People who have known an INFJ for years may find sides emerging, which come as a surprise. It's not that INFJs are inconsistent; they are very consistent and value integrity. But they have convoluted, complex personalities, which sometimes puzzle even them. INFJs like to please others and tend to contribute their own best efforts in all situations. They prefer and enjoy agreeing with others, and find conflict disagreeable and destructive. … INFJs have vivid imaginations exercised both as memory and intuition, and this can amount to genius, resulting at
    times in an INFJ’s being seen as mystical. This unfettered imagination often will enable this person to compose complex and often aesthetic works of art such as music, … poems, plays, and novels. In a sense, the INFJ is the most poetic of all the types.
    … INFJs often select liberal arts as a college major and opt for occupations, which involve interacting with people, but on a one-to-one basis. For example … or the psychiatrist or psychologist. … INFJs may be attracted to writing as a profession, and often they use language, which contains an unusual degree of imagery. They are masters of the metaphor, and both their verbal and written communications tend to be elegant and complex. Their great talent for language usually is directed toward people, describing people and writing to communicate with people in a personalized way.
    … INFJs make outstanding individual therapists who have the ability to get in touch with the archetypes of their patients in a way some other types do not. The INFJs are also the most vulnerable of all the types to the eruption of their own archetypal material. As therapists, INFJs may choose counseling, clinical psychology, or psychiatry, … Writing about these professions often intrigues an INFJ. Whatever their choice, they generally are successful in these fields because their great personal warmth, their enthusiasm, their insight, their depth of concentrations, their originality, and their organizational skills can all be brought into play.
    At work as well as socially, INFJs are highly sensitive in their handling of others and tend to work well in an organizational structure. They have a capacity for working at jobs, which require solitude and concentration, but also do well when in contact with people, providing the human interaction is not superficial. INFJs are concerned with people’s feelings and are able to provide in themselves a barometer of the feelings of individuals and groups within the organizations. INFJs listen well and are willing and able to consult and cooperate with others. Once a decision is made, they work to implement it.
    INFJs … have good interpersonal relations. They value staff harmony and want an organization to run smoothly and pleasantly, themselves making every effort to contribute to that end. They are crushed by too much criticism and can have their feelings hurt rather easily. They respond to praise and use approval as a means of motivating others, just as they, the INFJs, are motivated by approval. If they are subject to a hostile, unfriendly working condition or to constant criticism, they tend to lose confidence, become unhappy and immobilized, and finally become physically ill.

    As mates, INFJs are usually devoted to their spouses, but may not always be open to physical approaches. They tend to be physically demonstrative at times, but wish to choose when, which is when they are in the mood. This may be quite confusing to an extraverted mate. Often an INFJ’s expressions of affection will be subtle, taking a humorous, unexpected turn. INFJs need and want harmony in their home and find constant conflict, overt or covert, extremely destructive to their psyches. Their friendship circle is likely to be small, deep, and longstanding. As parents, INFJs usually are fiercely devoted. … At the same time, INFJs tend to be good friends with their children, while firm in discipline. They usually are concerned about the comfort of a home and most especially the comfort, physical health, and emotional well-being of both mates and children.




    The part about NFs included in both the INFx descriptions:

    In fact, the term sex would seem somehow crude when used in discussing the NF; love better captures their appreciation of the physical relationship. Both the NF female and male respond to their mates with sympathy, tenderness, and frequent passionate expressions of love, ... nonverbal. … NFs are able to express nuances of emotions that may escape other types. NFs are not afraid of using poetry, music, quotations to enhance their courting relationships; the romantic developments lives of NFs thrive on receiving these tokens of affection and dedication. …. The ideal of the perfect love that will never did motivates the NFs in their search for a partner who can relate spiritually as well as physically. They strive to be authentic lovers capable of sustaining deep intimacy.

    … NFs have a capacity for deep affection and caring over and above sexual expression, and out of this capacity can grow a lasting, satisfactory relationship. …

    They are usually ready to lend sympathy to a mate when the outside world turns hostile and are not apt to use that moment to pint out the errors of a mate’s ways … They often are experts in the arts of appreciation, especially in the area of personal characteristics, and they are apt to be generous in expressing these appreciations to their mate. …. The NF can be as
    extravagant as an SP when expressing love through the media of gifts, but the NF is more than likely to present the gift in private, and select with extraordinary care something with special or even symbolic meaning. NFs, both male and female, usually remember birthdays, anniversaries, and the like without being prompted, or at most needing only a hint. If, in turn, the NFs’ milestones are not needed, they are deeply hurt, as deeply as they are appreciative when theirs are noticed. …

    …. NFs … become restless if others … are dependent … They pride themselves on being sensitive to others and caring about them. It is almost impossible for NFs to be unaware of others’ psychological needs. Yet the NF becomes restless when …. the amount of emotional input becomes a psychological overload for the NF. At this point the NF can … insist … that the other “stand on his own two feet.” (NOTE: I gently worked this into conversation and very gently said “for both of us we should be less dependent—what if we can't talk for a long time due to vacations or something?” I made it seem like it was something both of us were doing and needed to improve upon, not just that he did. I knew that that would hurt him and I didn't want to be cruel, like the description says. We didn't break it off due to this; again, we worked on it together.) …. Building empathic relationships is second nature to this temperament, a master of the art of intimacy. But as those around the NF want more and more attention, more and more expressions of this unusual appreciation, more and more signals of deep affection, the NF mate becomes restless and resentful of pressures to deliver what had seemed promised: the ideal love, the perfect friendship, complete understanding, and total acceptance …. The NF is vulnerable to this kind of misunderstanding because of his extraordinary capabilities to introject. He can take into himself the point of view, the emotions, and the psychological state of another so completely that the other feels totally received. The other person may not realize that the NF does this in most relationships …



    I related to very little in this particular ISFP description, actually.

  10. #10
    Senior Member reckful's Avatar
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    Yikes! You're fast. I'll be responding at greater length but not... immediately.

    And maybe I'll browse some of your other posts after all, since there aren't that many.

    Just briefly for the moment... I'm leaning INFJ now. Your Big Five test results were non-borderline on all five dimensions, and correspond (as you may have figured out) to Limbic ISFJ — so the S is an out-of-whack result, and surprises me a bit. As shown by this l-o-n-g (600-post) INTJforum thread, it's pretty rare for any of the N's at INTJforum to come out S-equivalent on that test. But, on the other hand, the majority of the INTJforum test-takers are NTs and, looking at the the S/N-equivalent items on that test, it's not hard to see why the N side (i.e., the SLOAN "I" side) of a fair number of them might appeal quite a bit more to a typical NT than a typical NF (e.g., "I would take a 10% raise to move to a job where I did theoretical research all day"; and "I am more interested in intellectual pursuits than anything else"; and "I find theoretical physics interesting"). I continue to think you're an N, which fits with the Enneagram 4 and the "clear" N result on the official MBTI — not to mention the sense I get from your self-descriptions.

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