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  1. #71
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Higher levels than what? Other ENFPs? (Pretty much all ENFPs are "more emotional" to an ESTJ. )
    HAHA, yes - or other 7s if I am 7w6.

    But in all seriousness -- say you have a set amount of interpersonal energy. The way I see it is:

    so/sx: Use most towards "the group" on a shallow level, the rest on deeper "merging" interactions with people close to you, with little to no energy left over
    so/sp: Use some towards "the group", stingy enough with the rest to be resistant towards using much for deep "merging" interaction
    sx/sp: Use most towards "merging" interactions, skeptical about wasting the remaining energy on shallower "group" interaction

    Etc.

    So your sort of first-come, first serve openness towards just about anyone who interacts with you is what I see as so/sx. I don't attribute that to Fe because I'm like that (I think) and I'm so/sx as well.
    Ahh I agree with this for me, yeah. I'd say that some energy for so/sp and sx/sp goes into their personal well-being and comfort, but from an so-first perspective it makes us see sx/sp as just averse to this kind of "group" interaction and from an sx-last perspective it makes us see so/sp as "stingy." After talking to @The Great One (who I believe is and types as so-last) we talked about our concerns and we realized I don't really consider physical danger when making decisions and he doesn't really consider emotional danger as much. On the flip side, he takes into account physical/financial concerns when making decisions and I take into account my emotional well-being. I think if we were to attribute this openness to so/sx it could possibly be a form of minimizing our chances of emotional harm? Sort of like a dog showing someone its belly - a reveal of trust to secure our bond with people and to remind them to not hurt us.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  2. #72
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @Chanaynay

    LMAO, yes to both points.
    Well I'm glad that we agree on that then.

    Oh, I definitely relate more to 2w3 in this sense. Yeah, my friends are fun people to be around but honestly I could just be hanging around their houses and still be having a good time with them. We also support and love each other like family, too.
    Exactly. One thing that I clearly see that is more 2w3 about you is that you like to openly help your friends. In fact, it seems as though you almost feel socially obligated to do so. This is much more of a 2w3 thing. The 2w3 likes these obligations and views as "just being a good friend", whereas the core 7 hates the obligations. In fact, the 7 often times views them as a burden.

  3. #73
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @Chanaynay

    Ahh I agree with this for me, yeah. I'd say that some energy for so/sp and sx/sp goes into their personal well-being and comfort, but from an so-first perspective it makes us see sx/sp as just averse to this kind of "group" interaction and from an sx-last perspective it makes us see so/sp as "stingy." After talking to @The Great One (who I believe is and types as so-last) we talked about our concerns and we realized I don't really consider physical danger when making decisions and he doesn't really consider emotional danger as much. On the flip side, he takes into account physical/financial concerns when making decisions and I take into account my emotional well-being. I think if we were to attribute this openness to so/sx it could possibly be a form of minimizing our chances of emotional harm? Sort of like a dog showing someone its belly - a reveal of trust to secure our bond with people and to remind them to not hurt us.
    Yeah, this is definitely a valid point to bring up. Would you do me a favor though? Please describe to me how you are afraid of being hurt emotionally? It's just such a foreign concept to me that it makes no sense.

  4. #74
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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  5. #75
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Exactly. One thing that I clearly see that is more 2w3 about you is that you like to openly help your friends. In fact, it seems as though you almost feel socially obligated to do so. This is much more of a 2w3 thing. The 2w3 likes these obligations and views as "just being a good friend", whereas the core 7 hates the obligations. In fact, the 7 often times views them as a burden.
    That's not really me, though. I don't feel obligated to help my friends or do favors for them. They'll come to me with their problems and sometimes I'll go to them with mine too but if they ask me to do something for them or go somewhere with them and I don't want to I'm just like "ehh, I don't want to." And then they're like "come on, I did ____ when you wanted to!" And I just like quietly withdraw myself from the situation and just go to do my own thing. I don't like being asked or obligated to do something; whatever I do has to be of my own volition.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Yeah, this is definitely a valid point to bring up. Would you do me a favor though? Please describe to me how you are afraid of being hurt emotionally? It's just such a foreign concept to me that it makes no sense.
    I can try. It's hard to describe though. I like to keep my emotions protected because I know people can cut into them so easily. If someone says something in the wrong tone, I'll feel insulted. If they tell me to stop doing something or be quiet, I feel like they just personally don't like me. Something that resonates with me from online ENFP descriptions is the whole "taking objective criticism as personal" thing. I have a really hard time keeping things objective because, in my mind, everything revolves around me. I remember I got a little more angry than I should have at my friend who said I could have done more work for a final project. To me it just felt like she was saying she didn't like me. I really have trouble absorbing things for their pure face value because so much just happens in my mind whenever anything happens. So I try to act nice to everyone so I can get niceness back rather than getting my feelings hurt. I'm also very uncomfortable in settings where I'm no one's first choice because I feel betrayed if someone chooses someone else over me to do something and feelings of betrayal get me really upset.

    @Devi, not really. I relate to inferior Si more from the whole "form of the inferior" series.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  6. #76
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Higher levels than what? Other ENFPs? (Pretty much all ENFPs are "more emotional" to an ESTJ. )
    But in all seriousness -- say you have a set amount of interpersonal energy. The way I see it is:
    so/sx: Use most towards "the group" on a shallow level, the rest on deeper "merging" interactions with people close to you, with little to no energy left over
    so/sp: Use some towards "the group", stingy enough with the rest to be resistant towards using much for deep "merging" interaction
    sx/sp: Use most towards "merging" interactions, skeptical about wasting the remaining energy on shallower "group" interaction
    this sounds about right


    So your sort of first-come, first serve openness towards just about anyone who interacts with you is what I see as so/sx. I don't attribute that to Fe because I'm like that (I think) and I'm so/sx as well. Social-last ENFPs can be quite cold at times to the people they haven't prioritized -- not meaning this as an insult, I have some dear forum friends who are ENFP and like this -- but if an so/sx person is warm and friendly, they're likely that way most of the time, and it would take a lot to make them act cold to you.
    yup. it's not that we aren't friendly, but, without some sort of "spark", we're really not going to notice or pay much attention to you. my MBTI, Enneagram type, Instinctual Subtype and Tritype all veer me away from the ordinary and toward a quality>quantity mindset, looking for those few things that are truly exciting and meet my standards (which are insanely high, often to the point of being unfair or just plain ridiculous)
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  7. #77
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @Chanaynay

    That's not really me, though. I don't feel obligated to help my friends or do favors for them. They'll come to me with their problems and sometimes I'll go to them with mine too but if they ask me to do something for them or go somewhere with them and I don't want to I'm just like "ehh, I don't want to." And then they're like "come on, I did ____ when you wanted to!" And I just like quietly withdraw myself from the situation and just go to do my own thing. I don't like being asked or obligated to do something; whatever I do has to be of my own volition.
    Here is the typewatch description of a 2w3 and a 7w6. See which one you relate to more. It's hard to type you because you have both a 2w3 and a 7w6 fix. It's just that I'm not sure which one is your predominant type. Here are the descriptions...

    2w3s are more about "seeking to help and inspire". They value openmindedness and view being judgemental as counterproductive. They have more of an obvious need to be needed and are naturals at being the center of attention. They are more likely to host and organize things that others are interested in. They're the twos more likely to be involved with more open and cooperative facilitating efforts like charities and non-profit organizations. They take pride in being able to offer assistance where others want help. They are as much about the relationships as the help efforts.

    Unlike their one-winged siblings 2w3s are anything but invisible. They tend to be warmer and more charming. They are more connective and upbeat. The more extroverted ones tend to be cloying and tacky. Either way they are characters that have no problem standing out. Due to their three wing they are both more results-oriented and naturally confident. They are more ambitious and competitive. They are also smoother and more pragmatic as well as more expansive and effusive. They are less self-referential and more likely to see interdependence as acceptable...even desireable. Although they set their own expectations they are concerned with what others think of them enough to let that dictate their actions. They have a more external interpersonally-based system of scoring "goodness" points with themselves.

    2w3s pride themselves in being "just what the doctor ordered" for that person or situation. They take pride in being naturals at helping others. They hold themselves in high-esteem. They have a more variable self-image and are more adaptable. They have more of an ego in being an altruistic VIP. If they go out of their way for someone and don't get appreciated they can become manipulative and bossy. When unhealthy their style of controlling others tends to be more domineering and smothering compared to their more restrained one-wing siblings.



    7w6s are less grounded and more visibly anxious. They are more manic. They are much more prone to bipolar personality disorder. They are mercurial and endearing. They tend to be more amiable and friendly. They are natural peter pan types who never grow up. They are the more childlike side of seven. They are more creative and fantastical. They are more excited about life and never stop dreaming. They have an attitude of wide-eyed wonderment towards the world. They are prone to blurring the distinction between fantasy and reality. They are much more "pie in the sky" thinkers. They believe in "potential" and that is a big theme in their lives. They believe in potential in others and pockets of potential in the world. They believe the "holy grail" is out there somewhere and it's just a matter of finding it. They are more likely to chase their own tail. They lack the pragmatism and realism of their seven-wing-eight siblings.

    7w6s feel more of a need to "check in" with others. Their six wing gives them a need to establish "solidarity" with people they care about. They care about how they are seen. The dense party animal stereotype offends them more. They don't like to be taken for granted as someone who is happy all the time and doesn't have problems. They want to be seen as someone who has depth of personality. They want to be seen as someone who is also "human" and can relate to how you are feeling. Their six wing causes them to be awed and apalled. They have more highs and lows. They have a good-natured sense of humor and are more natural entertainers. They tend to be funny more than they are characters.

    7w6s tend to fear getting "trapped" in a rut as opposed to stuck in a rut. Their six wing makes them more likely to feel defeatism and despair. They admit to themselves the rut has "got" them in some way. They can see the walls closing in and becoming more trapped if they don't do something.

    I can try. It's hard to describe though. I like to keep my emotions protected because I know people can cut into them so easily. If someone says something in the wrong tone, I'll feel insulted. If they tell me to stop doing something or be quiet, I feel like they just personally don't like me. Something that resonates with me from online ENFP descriptions is the whole "taking objective criticism as personal" thing. I have a really hard time keeping things objective because, in my mind, everything revolves around me. I remember I got a little more angry than I should have at my friend who said I could have done more work for a final project. To me it just felt like she was saying she didn't like me. I really have trouble absorbing things for their pure face value because so much just happens in my mind whenever anything happens. So I try to act nice to everyone so I can get niceness back rather than getting my feelings hurt. I'm also very uncomfortable in settings where I'm no one's first choice because I feel betrayed if someone chooses someone else over me to do something and feelings of betrayal get me really upset.

    @Devi, not really. I relate to inferior Si more from the whole "form of the inferior" series.
    I never really get my feelings hurt very easily, but I realize how I can hurt other's feelings. It is because of this that I often hold back and try not to push things too far with people. I don't fear offending most people, but there are some special people that I have that are very close to me that I really don't want to lose as a friend.

  8. #78
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Here is the typewatch description of a 2w3 and a 7w6. See which one you relate to more. It's hard to type you because you have both a 2w3 and a 7w6 fix. It's just that I'm not sure which one is your predominant type. Here are the descriptions...
    I'll start addressing stuff then. Anything not taken out is something I'm cool with.

    2w3

    2w3s are more about "seeking to help and inspire".ctive.
    Seeking to inspire and motivate people, yes. I'm not actively looking to help anyone, though.

    They have more of an obvious need to be needed and are naturals at being the center of attention.
    Hmm, less needed and more wanted. Or both, but needed purely because of their love for me. I don't want to be chosen by default - I want to be someone's first choice, like I said earlier. In regards to being the center of attention, I certainly liked being talked about and getting attention and such but I don't assert myself in that position. I'm more likely to go to the side of the room than the middle just because TRYING to catch everyone's attention is exhausting.

    They are more likely to host and organize things that others are interested in. They're the twos more likely to be involved with more open and cooperative facilitating efforts like charities and non-profit organizations.
    Nah, if I'm not interested in it you're not gonna hear a peep from me. But I do support organizations fighting against animal cruelty like ASPCA, etc.

    They take pride in being able to offer assistance where others want help.
    That's another problem, I don't feel a sense of pride from helping others. I just love being able to see and make people happy.

    The more extroverted ones tend to be cloying and tacky.
    Nah, I don't believe in this over-the-top-ness either. If anything, I'm a fairly low-key friend. Not quiet and soft-spoken, but I'm not constantly shoving my friendship in people's faces. Loud, obnoxious people like that may actually bother me.

    Due to their three wing they are both more results-oriented
    Yes and no? Just today my dad asked me if I wanted to go out and when I realized I actually had to go through the effort of changing out of my pajamas I just kept asking what the point was if we weren't going to get anything while we were out. But then at the same time I'm not nearly as goal-oriented as most 3s when all I'm aiming for is a good, happy life with a family of my own. For that, though, I'm constantly trying to find the right guy out there.

    They are more ambitious and competitive.
    Only ambitious when I'm passionate about something, and only competitive when someone is trying to show off or act like the shit.

    They are also smoother and more pragmatic as well as more expansive and effusive.
    I'm not very pragmatic and sometimes I can be more jittery than smooth but the rest is pretty true. But pragmatic is a no-no.

    They are less self-referential and more likely to see interdependence as acceptable...even desireable.
    The problem with 2w3 is that it's so much more common among Fe-doms. I'm very self-referential, in fact I relate almost everything back to myself. The second sentence though reminds me of how much of a paradox I am in relation to this. I value my independence and I dislike being held down by anything or anyone, but at the same time I'll also constantly feel incomplete without someone to love and someone who loves me back.

    2w3s pride themselves in being "just what the doctor ordered" for that person or situation. They take pride in being naturals at helping others.
    Less prideful and more confident? I don't know. I'm happy to help people and feel good when I do, but I don't let it get to my head.

    If they go out of their way for someone and don't get appreciated they can become manipulative and bossy.
    I'm rarely manipulative or bossy. In fact I suck at being both lol. I just get upset or depressed if this happens, or start wondering "what's wrong with me?"

    When unhealthy their style of controlling others tends to be more domineering and smothering compared to their more restrained one-wing siblings.
    Also I rarely try to control others.

    7w6

    They are more manic.
    I'm usually more elevated than irritable. When I'm irritable it's from my lack of desire to be around people or other people being way too social.

    They are mercurial and endearing.
    I'm not sure if my mood changes so much to be called mercurial. I'm generally a pretty happy and upbeat person. When my moods get down (which is usually just a few times a week) they spring back fairly quickly.

    They are more likely to chase their own tail.
    I'm not sure what this part means.

    They care about how they are seen.
    Not really, other than being seen as someone who should be treated kindly.

    They have a good-natured sense of humor and are more natural entertainers. They tend to be funny more than they are characters.
    The problem here is while I try to be funny, we have to get to know each other because most of my actual funny jokes are inside jokes. I can't just crack jokes around people I barely just met because then my humor will have no depth to it. So basically I need a lot of buildup for entertaining people. I laugh at almost anything though.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  9. #79
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @Chanaynay

    Well, I wouldn't rely too much on that particular 2w3 description. After all, a lot of it had more of a Fe bias. Also, because you are 2w3(sw1w2) you aren't going to relate to a lot of the description that pertains to the 3 wing. So keep that in mind as well. I did find it interesting when you said that you don't like to stand out much, because core 7's like to stand out like a sore thumb.

  10. #80
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    @Chanaynay

    Well, I wouldn't rely too much on that particular 2w3 description. After all, a lot of it had more of a Fe bias. Also, because you are 2w3(sw1w2) you aren't going to relate to a lot of the description that pertains to the 3 wing. So keep that in mind as well. I did find it interesting when you said that you don't like to stand out much, because core 7's like to stand out like a sore thumb.
    Do they like to, though? Maybe I stand out and just don't know it. I feel like being 7w6(sw6w5) also makes me blend in/rely on others as well. Honestly both seem so borderline for me.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


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