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  1. #41
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    am still considering it...i really don't think i'm socially astute enough to be esfj or enfj. like i do things that the people around me don't agree with and don't bat an eye about it. i would never shift my values to appease other people, and i feel like both of those types do that like they're being paid for it.
    Interesting! I know a really awesome ESTJ and he's actually super warm and sweet. So maybe you are!
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  2. #42
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    Interesting! I know a really awesome ESTJ and he's actually super warm and sweet. So maybe you are!
    hehe, i hope i'm keeping you riveted with all these unexpected twists. like throwing a T in there. maybe a Q next.
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  3. #43
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    hehe, i hope i'm keeping you riveted with all these unexpected twists. like throwing a T in there. maybe a Q next.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  4. #44
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    a batman symbol, ahahah
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  5. #45
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    About Fe vs. Fi, I don't know if I have a clear understanding of what the difference is, but I don't automatically shift my values to be in agreement with the values/beliefs of people around me and then act like everyone who doesn't do that is an ass, if that's what you guys mean. I don't have time for such silliness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    am still considering it...i really don't think i'm socially astute enough to be esfj or enfj. like i do things that the people around me don't agree with and don't bat an eye about it. i would never shift my values to appease other people, and i feel like both of those types do that like they're being paid for it.
    Fe is complex. A lot of the descriptions online really suck, because they say stupid things like "ExFJs don't have any internal values, they reflect the values of others"... and other such superficial and overwhelmingly inaccurate statements. The way I understand Fe and Fi is that Fe is a method of judging value that starts with looking outside yourself. It looks for the "in betweens" - feelings and values that pass between two people, between self and group, between group and group. It assesses the quantity and quality of relationships. It also, in tandem with Pi, creates "paths" for how to effect environmental change.

    An example - my ESFJ mom is excellent in situations like going into a store to return a defective item. She will come out of the store with everyone loving her, her money back, and probably a handful of coupons. She knows how to get on people's good side and how to craft a solution that helps everybody. She always tells me that secretaries and assistants are the best people to befriend because they know all the information you need and how to get what you don't have - and they're often overlooked because people tend to seek those in the supposedly "powerful" positions instead. Mom's wisdom comes from both Si awareness of where information is kept as well as Fe empathizing - she can easily put herself in the secretary or assistant's shoes and understand what it feels like to have a lot of information at your fingertips but often be underestimated. So she connects with the gatekeeper person, and the gate is opened for her. Mom gets what she wants but also, very importantly, the secretary is left feeling empowered and positive.

    ENFJ Fe is often a little more about strategy and mobilization. Have you heard the jokes about ENFJs being typical cult leaders? ENFJs are often excellent observers of people, and are very keen to human behavior patterns. As a result of Ni pattern detection, ENFJs have insight about what, how, when, and why people are likely to do what they do. They too can use their Fe judgment of feeling and value to get the most out of people situations. ENFJs in particular seem to have a gift for helping people behave in ways more aligned with their goals - perhaps why they often get called the "Mentor" or "Teacher".

    Fi in contrast generally starts with the self and at other people's inner workings, instead of those "between" external, interpersonal places. Fi works mostly with internal emotions, personal needs, individual desires, and in cooperation with Pe tracks others' subtle changes in internal atmosphere based on external cues.

    To be clear - using Fe doesn't mean shifting to be in agreement with others. More often - being that Fe users are ExxJs - it means that the Fe user will adjust their environment to be in line with their values - ie, they shift others to be in agreement with them! But even that's an oversimplification. Fe users have a gift for arranging external circumstances, especially situations involving people, to be conducive to everyone's goals. Depending on their enneatype and stacking, though, they may or may not be particularly hands-on, emotional, or pushy. My mom is a very practical sp/so, and she's not at all dramatic, histrionic, emotional, or the normal stereotypes. She's warm and very straightforward. She actually tests ESTJ. My ENFJ 3w4 so/sp friend is a little distant and tends to be more of an observer and leader than being super involved. Another ENFJ friend, probably a 2w1, is very organized and sweet. And then I had an ESFJ suitemate who was super emotional and super warm and super effusive and a little high-strung and totally 2w1. She's a 2nd grade teacher now and loving it. Lots of different shades of Fe.

    As for ESTJ for you - maybe? You are a little like EJCC. I still think it's more likely you're Fe. Keep digging

  6. #46
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Fe is complex. A lot of the descriptions online really suck, because they say stupid things like "ExFJs don't have any internal values, they reflect the values of others"... and other such superficial and overwhelmingly inaccurate statements. The way I understand Fe and Fi is that Fe is a method of judging value that starts with looking outside yourself. It looks for the "in betweens" - feelings and values that pass between two people, between self and group, between group and group. It assesses the quantity and quality of relationships. It also, in tandem with Pi, creates "paths" for how to effect environmental change.

    An example - my ESFJ mom is excellent in situations like going into a store to return a defective item. She will come out of the store with everyone loving her, her money back, and probably a handful of coupons. She knows how to get on people's good side and how to craft a solution that helps everybody. She always tells me that secretaries and assistants are the best people to befriend because they know all the information you need and how to get what you don't have - and they're often overlooked because people tend to seek those in the supposedly "powerful" positions instead. Mom's wisdom comes from both Si awareness of where information is kept as well as Fe empathizing - she can easily put herself in the secretary or assistant's shoes and understand what it feels like to have a lot of information at your fingertips but often be underestimated. So she connects with the gatekeeper person, and the gate is opened for her. Mom gets what she wants but also, very importantly, the secretary is left feeling empowered and positive.

    ENFJ Fe is often a little more about strategy and mobilization. Have you heard the jokes about ENFJs being typical cult leaders? ENFJs are often excellent observers of people, and are very keen to human behavior patterns. As a result of Ni pattern detection, ENFJs have insight about what, how, when, and why people are likely to do what they do. They too can use their Fe judgment of feeling and value to get the most out of people situations. ENFJs in particular seem to have a gift for helping people behave in ways more aligned with their goals - perhaps why they often get called the "Mentor" or "Teacher".

    Fi in contrast generally starts with the self and at other people's inner workings, instead of those "between" external, interpersonal places. Fi works mostly with internal emotions, personal needs, individual desires, and in cooperation with Pe tracks others' subtle changes in internal atmosphere based on external cues.

    To be clear - using Fe doesn't mean shifting to be in agreement with others. More often - being that Fe users are ExxJs - it means that the Fe user will adjust their environment to be in line with their values - ie, they shift others to be in agreement with them! But even that's an oversimplification. Fe users have a gift for arranging external circumstances, especially situations involving people, to be conducive to everyone's goals. Depending on their enneatype and stacking, though, they may or may not be particularly hands-on, emotional, or pushy. My mom is a very practical sp/so, and she's not at all dramatic, histrionic, emotional, or the normal stereotypes. She's warm and very straightforward. She actually tests ESTJ. My ENFJ 3w4 so/sp friend is a little distant and tends to be more of an observer and leader than being super involved. Another ENFJ friend, probably a 2w1, is very organized and sweet. And then I had an ESFJ suitemate who was super emotional and super warm and super effusive and a little high-strung and totally 2w1. She's a 2nd grade teacher now and loving it. Lots of different shades of Fe.

    As for ESTJ for you - maybe? You are a little like EJCC. I still think it's more likely you're Fe. Keep digging
    A lot of what you said here resonated with me. I don't change my values, but I do change my environment as necessary because it gets toxic for me to be in a situation where my values habitually conflict with others'. So, I won't let other people change my mind, and if other people disagree with me on core values issues, then that's fine, but I'll leave and find a different group. And I often hear stories about ESFJs being the person in the office who is fighting for women to be offered maternity leave or equal compensation, and that is sooooo me.

    Haha, your mom sounds awesome! The story about her and returning items at the store kind of resonates with me. I truly didn't mean to do it on purpose, but I ended up becoming friends with every member of the housekeeping staff in every dorm I lived in in college, which was strange because all of the other students ignored them. I didn't build relationships with them as part of a strategy; I just think it's common courtesy to ask people how they are, how their family is, what they think about the election and this and that. They lit up when I would ask them what their thoughts were, I guess because they're normally never asked, which I think is terrible! In the end, whenever I lost stuff or needed help, I could always ask them because they were friends of mine. On the other hand, I'm not able to create a win-win in every situation, and I do take polarizing positions on some things...
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  7. #47
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    y'all, i'm thinking maybe estj.
    Whaaat? I don't think so. Why do you think that?

  8. #48
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
    Whaaat? I don't think so. Why do you think that?
    hmm, idk, i just don't feel like i'm socially astute enough to be esfj or enfj.
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  9. #49
    WALMART
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    lol. in my first job offer ever, the email said, "amongst the qualities we value, your tendency to easily slip into analysis..."
    Jung wrote that for sensors, the 'actual' refreshed their minds, that to discover truths of reality were of principle importance. I'm not quite sure if you're going towards sensing with these comments of being an analyzer, or away, as if only intuitors are capable of thinking?

  10. #50
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Jung wrote that for sensors, the 'actual' refreshed their minds, that to discover truths of reality were of principle importance. I'm not quite sure if you're going towards sensing with these comments of being an analyzer, or away, as if only intuitors are capable of thinking?
    No, no, I don't mean that only intuitives are capable of thinking...I meant that I easily slip into analysis mode to the point of being oblivious to reality. It's a very pronounced characteristic to the point of people commenting on it when they first meet me.
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

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