Does anyone think I'm an ISFJ?

[violet_crown]

/ boring thread is boring

Z, Imma let you finish, but I'd be willing to toss a couple stars at this thread just on the strength of [MENTION=7]Jennifer[/MENTION]'s contributions alone. Then the actual theoretical discussion over Si "magical" thinking and certain other concepts from Jung by [MENTION=13589]Mal+[/MENTION] was also really on point (and interestingly led him to the same conclusion that I've had despite coming at it from a very different way), and probably brought the whole thing solidly into the 3-4 category. But it was probably [MENTION=5418]Lady X[/MENTION]'s alternatingly giggling at Jennifer and Te-bitch slappin hos in the face that brought this thing home for me.

5 stars.

 

[violet_crown]

Bonus points for reading the thread like I did with David Attenborough-style commentary as you watch the actual NTPs cull the FJ from their herd.

 

[prplchknz]

Just because you use logic and reasoning, as do i, doesn't make you INTP. and What's wrong with being an INFP. If you don't want your type questioned don't post these threads.and why are you so Married to the idea of being an INTP? just cuz you want to be doesn't make it so. I want to be ENTP but I'm smart enough to realize that there's no way in hell, plus 50 billion people are telling you aren't INTP, maybe actually listen to their arguments instead of getting defensive.

 

[RaptorWizard]

I bow to your powers of greatness.

Of course you will, and that's fine for now, but know this, dear youngling: justice is the advantage of the stronger!

If you follow that philosophy, you will overthrow me when you reach your height.

 

[Mal12345]

sigh

Do you have another puzzle for me like the first one?

In another thread I quoted from Obama's Dreams of my Father and challenged everybody to determine the author's type, and nobody even went for it.

 

[greenfairy]

@greenfairy -

my first thought was wondering what meaning would the concept of ISFJ even retain if it had to expand so broad as to include both you and every previously typed ISFJ out there... not much.

though something worth mentioning regarding your type - if you really do have aspergers, it creates a problem: not so much if mbti is just a semantical game of standardized metaphors to describe different sorts of people, then no you are very far from isfj - then we'll just find an fe-last or fe-less description for you. but if mbti is viewed as underlining cognitive processes, then this can get really messy: basically we'd be navigating the possible function orders without any knowledge of the wearabout of your Fe or any behaviors resulting from this... which can whack the whole system, i mean trying to define how an FJ without functioning Fe would behave... what aspects shared with other FJ would you even retain, if any? what would then still define you as an FJ? for that matter if your fe and fe manifestations are "invisible", then why not entp? would explain why some people see you as inherently p dom...

you do seem very keen on systematically breaking information down into its building blocks, and you express a discomfort with concepts that don't seem to sit well in your thought process for you until they are completely well defined, which i associate with Ti, while INFPs i know seem to not give a shit about that at all, and quite often even find the very notion of doing so to be annoying.

These have been my thoughts too. I relate as much to ENTP as INTP, though I'm not attached to TP. I do feel as though I'm more Ne (and Ni) than a judging function.

Of course you will, and that's fine for now, but know this, dear youngling: justice is the advantage of the stronger!

If you follow that philosophy, you will overthrow me when you reach your height.

Ah, but Socrates proved Thrasymachus wrong! And so will I.

Just because you use logic and reasoning, as do i, doesn't make you INTP. and What's wrong with being an INFP. If you don't want your type questioned don't post these threads.and why are you so Married to the idea of being an INTP? just cuz you want to be doesn't make it so. I want to be ENTP but I'm smart enough to realize that there's no way in hell, plus 50 billion people are telling you aren't INTP, maybe actually listen to their arguments instead of getting defensive.

You have some good points, but I don't think they are correct. As I have been saying, I'm not attached to being a certain type anymore- I just would like things to make sense. If I really am INFP that's fine with me. But the fact is I really don't relate to Fi. I could try and see how far I get...

 

[prplchknz]

These have been my thoughts too. I relate as much to ENTP as INTP, though I'm not attached to TP. I do feel as though I'm more Ne (and Ni) than a judging function.

Ah, but Socrates proved Thrasymachus wrong! And so will I.

You have some good points, but I don't think they are correct. As I have been saying, I'm not attached to being a certain type anymore- I just would like things to make sense. If I really am INFP that's fine with me. But the fact is I really don't relate to Fi. I could try and see how far I get...

define Fi in your own words.

 

[greenfairy]

Wow.

This sounds so exciting.



Let's call this for what it is: pure, 100% attention-whoring.



And this is what's supposed to make it less boring???





/ didn't read thread

/ can't believe it exists

/ boring thread is boring

Interesting enough for you to respond. Hey, I get my entertainment where I can.

 

[Totenkindly]

You're focusing on theory. I'm focusing on how a person communicates...

On the other hand, you recently said that Speed was the best typist on this forum, whereas I'd only put him in the same graduating class as Jack Flack / Technical.

Who says an INFP forgets logic or reason? I don't see that at all. Think of OrangeAppled who makes some of the most thoughtful posts on the forum.

How about an ENFP that got straight As through high school and college, a full scholarship to one of the best medical schools in the country and is now a doctor. Do you think you can do without logic and reasoning. She's very logical. Is that unusual because her Te is only tertiary? Has nothing to do with it. Does she do that hippity hoppity thing when writing and talking? Absolutely.

To be fair, I really agree with this. I wish people would remember that functions are not either/or. Everyone has them, we have all of them, and in fact the functions themselves are just arbitrary divisions of particular tendencies found in human beings. They don't exist as separate entities in themselves, even if it's common for people to anthropomorphize them in conversation.

We're talking about preferences and how they impact decision-making, viewing, and working style.

 

[prplchknz]

On the other hand, you recently said that Speed was the best typist on this forum, whereas I'd only put him in the same graduating class as Jack Flack / Technical.

which class is Jack Flack....I don't follow.....stop looking at me I don't pay attention either.

 

[Totenkindly]

We're not communicating AFFectively either. And that's a good thing!

Inside the head of the ISFJ, therein lies a rather strange world. My ISFJ father, however, didn't show any particular interest in fairies, goblins, and elves. However, as Jung wrote about the SI-dom, "It is concerned with presuppositions, or dispositions of the collective unconscious, with mythological images, with primal possibilities of ideas."

I agree with the last part, but with the first part, you're likely mistaking the message for the messenger. In modern times, I have only met ONE ISFJ in my life who has had any interest in new Age / Fairies and the like, and the rest find that topic interminably boring and avoid it like the plague. Tolkien? No interest whatsoever from the ones I've known. There are other types with far more interest.

HOWEVER, one thing many of those had in common was religious belief. Those same ISFJs have more magical thinking associated and aligned with a particular faith, to the point where it is all assumed and treated almost like magic, stories of angelic intervention, miracles happening, etc. And the only ISFJ I knew who was into magic "gave it up" for religion -- it was like she just transferred her worldview investment from magic into faith.

So I think I can see evidence of Jung's comments, based what framework the ISFj was raised; modern society doesn't really believe in fairies and the like anymore, but faith is alive and well, especially if you are raised in such a setting. At the same time, it's really ironic because the ISFJ's can be frugal, stark, hard-nosed realistic about other aspects of modern life, and don't really understand flights of fantasy outside their own. Basically, if the fantasy can get translated into "real life" then it is believable, but otherwise it stays an irrelevant fantasy and even kind of childish. I think it's about what framework of reference they accept, starting young, and that frames everything.

/ didn't read thread

/ can't believe it exists

/ boring thread is boring

If we all take off our clothes and start debating by bumping tattoos of our arguments against each other in a flesh grind pit, would that make it more interesting?

We can also add 25 gallons of honey if we need to.
[MENTION=15773]greenfairy[/MENTION], did that comment make you laugh, feel indifferent, or did you think it was stupid?

 

[greenfairy]

define Fi in your own words.

I was actually thinking of posting a video on this. People have been asking me to do a video, and I could talk about it. There are a lot of things I don't really personally understand, but some things I think I do, which could clear up some stereotypes perhaps. I really do want to understand it because a lot of my favorite people use it. So the following is my impression. Please correct me if you disagree with any of it. I'm going to have to contrast it with Fe in order to make the concepts clear.

As it has been mentioned in articles and videos, Fe is extensive and Fi is intensive. Fi is concerned with depth of feeling. This is focused on the subject, specific people, or a specific cause- one at a time. It resembles the sx variant this way. Where Fe deals with relationships and interconnections from a second and third person view, Fi sees things from a first person view; rather than look at how all the people relate to each other it will look at each person individually to see how each person experiences their end of a relationship. It can then generalize to what is happening in a situation to make a value judgment based on how people are affected.

This part I can understand and do without much difficulty.

Extraverted functions have an out-in-out dynamic, and introverted functions have an in-out-in dynamic. Extraverted feeling doesn't have an independent foundation for feeling- it seeks outside stimulation in order to see how it fits into a social system (of interdependent connections) to see how it feels. Introverted feeling does have this foundation because it is concerned with the individual experience of being affected. So it will always know what its state of being is and be less affected. Stimulation goes in, is processed, then there is an output- like a Turing machine. For Fe there is really no feeling independent from other things which can feel- the relationship is the feeling. Energy goes out, connects with something, goes back in to connect to the self, and then goes out again to bring that personal connection to the external. Because Fi is intensive and is concerned with the cognitive processing of one's personal experience (in relation to the essence of the self rather than ideas-Ni, events-Si, or logical observations-Ti), it forms a personally based sense of value. Value itself connotes a personal attachment; Fi rationally processes how the self is affected by other things, positively or negatively, and seeks to maintain those connections. It will judge how close or far away something should be from the self for maximum well-being, and how tightly one should be connected to something. It can sense similar experiences of others, from their point of view, but will always relate assessments of value to the self. In this way it forms a comprehensive picture of reality from the summation of points of view of one side of a relationship.

I suck at this.

 

[Lady_X]

i don't know if i think she's an isfj at all but just to be annoying i'll mention that my isfj sister is not even a lil n... it wouldn't be confusing for anyone irl but she did grow up in an n family with weird hippy/ artist parents and she loves weird stuff...her husband is an intp...the art she chooses is way weird...like other worldly acid trip shit and she loves fairies, goblins and all kinds of other dimension odd creatures. like in a weird obsessive way that i will never understand.

she's also very counter culture...like anything mainstream is revolting.

she also could not care less about typology.

 

[greenfairy]

I agree with the last part, but with the first part, you're likely mistaking the message for the messenger. In modern times, I have only met ONE ISFJ in my life who has had any interest in new Age / Fairies and the like, and the rest find that topic interminably boring and avoid it like the plague. Tolkien? No interest whatsoever from the ones I've known. There are other types with far more interest.

HOWEVER, one thing many of those had in common was religious belief. Those same ISFJs have more magical thinking associated and aligned with a particular faith, to the point where it is all assumed and treated almost like magic, stories of angelic intervention, miracles happening, etc. And the only ISFJ I knew who was into magic "gave it up" for religion -- it was like she just transferred her worldview investment from magic into faith.

So I think I can see evidence of Jung's comments, based what framework the ISFj was raised; modern society doesn't really believe in fairies and the like anymore, but faith is alive and well, especially if you are raised in such a setting. At the same time, it's really ironic because the ISFJ's can be frugal, stark, hard-nosed realistic about other aspects of modern life, and don't really understand flights of fantasy outside their own. Basically, if the fantasy can get translated into "real life" then it is believable, but otherwise it stays an irrelevant fantasy and even kind of childish. I think it's about what framework of reference they accept, starting young, and that frames everything.

In my experience this is very accurate. My mother is very much like this; she is really into A Course in Miracles, which is Christian mysticism. Inevitably if you have a conversation with her for any length of time or if you try to talk to her about a personal problem, she'll say "The Course in Miracles says..." and then if you don't want a sermon you have to distract her. She has like a million books on miracles, life after death, talking to dead people, reincarnation, astral travel, angels, psychic animals, etc. But about most things she's very practical and focused on the real world. She's also a computer programmer. And I assure you she's an ISFJ.

If we all take off our clothes and start debating by bumping tattoos of our arguments against each other in a flesh grind pit, would that make it more interesting?

We can also add 25 gallons of honey if we need to.
[MENTION=15773]greenfairy[/MENTION], did that comment make you laugh, feel indifferent, or did you think it was stupid?

I found it entertaining. Also when I was lying awake in bed last night I thought about the image you painted of me as a winged thing flitting about and throwing things at people when they prod me, and it made me laugh.

 

[Jaguar]

Does anyone (besides Kamishi) think I am an ISFJ?

Considering that person thought Victor was ESTP... I wouldn't put much stock in what they have to say.

 

[Totenkindly]

In my experience this is very accurate. My mother is very much like this; she is really into A Course in Miracles, which is Christian mysticism. Inevitably if you have a conversation with her for any length of time or if you try to talk to her about a personal problem, she'll say "The Course in Miracles says..." and then if you don't want a sermon you have to distract her. She has like a million books on miracles, life after death, talking to dead people, reincarnation, astral travel, angels, psychic animals, etc. But about most things she's very practical and focused on the real world. She's also a computer programmer. And I assure you she's an ISFJ.

Yup, that sounds like people I routinely know.

I found it entertaining. Also when I was lying awake in bed last night I thought about the image you painted of me as a winged thing flitting about and throwing things at people when they prod me, and it made me laugh.

Interesting. I couldn't scan that at all from your responses -- your posts are emotionally controlled and kind of flattened out. If I've given you a sharp response at times, part of the reason was to see how you would emotionally respond to it. But you keep everything public pretty uniform.

 

[greenfairy]

Considering that person thought Victor was ESTP... I wouldn't put much stock in what they have to say.

See this is an example of me being oblivious to Fe things: I don't know how this person is popularly regarded. If this is the popular opinion, I would have just ignored her and not bothered starting this thread. I really don't know; I thought it was possible it was a legitimate opinion from a respected forum member, and consequently people would think it was worth debating.

Interesting. I couldn't scan that at all from your responses -- your posts are emotionally controlled and kind of flattened out. If I've given you a sharp response at times, part of the reason was to see how you would emotionally respond to it. But you keep everything public pretty uniform.

I definitely did not expect you to say that. But it's pretty congruent with my real life persona, minus all the silliness and occasional quiet hyperactivity I have in person. If anything I am far more emotional online.

 

[Mal12345]

I agree with the last part, but with the first part, you're likely mistaking the message for the messenger. In modern times, I have only met ONE ISFJ in my life who has had any interest in new Age / Fairies and the like, and the rest find that topic interminably boring and avoid it like the plague. Tolkien? No interest whatsoever from the ones I've known. There are other types with far more interest.

HOWEVER, one thing many of those had in common was religious belief. Those same ISFJs have more magical thinking associated and aligned with a particular faith, to the point where it is all assumed and treated almost like magic, stories of angelic intervention, miracles happening, etc. And the only ISFJ I knew who was into magic "gave it up" for religion -- it was like she just transferred her worldview investment from magic into faith.

So I think I can see evidence of Jung's comments, based what framework the ISFj was raised; modern society doesn't really believe in fairies and the like anymore, but faith is alive and well, especially if you are raised in such a setting. At the same time, it's really ironic because the ISFJ's can be frugal, stark, hard-nosed realistic about other aspects of modern life, and don't really understand flights of fantasy outside their own. Basically, if the fantasy can get translated into "real life" then it is believable, but otherwise it stays an irrelevant fantasy and even kind of childish. I think it's about what framework of reference they accept, starting young, and that frames everything.

There's a difference between believing in something and having an interest in a topic, or as Jung said, being "concerned" with it. I like this part, 'At the same time, it's really ironic because the ISFJ's can be frugal, stark, hard-nosed realistic about other aspects of modern life, and don't really understand flights of fantasy outside their own. Basically, if the fantasy can get translated into "real life" then it is believable, but otherwise it stays an irrelevant fantasy and even kind of childish.' I know an ISFJ who, having switched over from Lutheranism, now believes in the Earth Goddess. Apart from that, she is all those things you said, frugal, stark, hard-nosed realistic - but also idealistic. Realism and idealism exist together in the same person. So it's not a mere concern with objective reality, but a concern with improving upon it, guiding (or forcing) it toward some subjective ideal that others fail to understand and appreciate.

From my outside perspective, I analyze this as a desire to bring the outside world into correspondence with an internal ideal, but the ideal itself is guided by a desire to control internal chaos (unconscious impulses). The Earth Goddess (as a conscious symbol constellated from the chaos of the unconscious level) is given the objective purpose of being channeled into various productive causes and ideals.

 

[greenfairy]

Mal+, Your above description sounds very like me- except I try not to personify Nature- it just is the living part of ultimate reality.

 

[prplchknz]

If anything I am far more emotional online.

So am I. I'm very very very unemotional offline