• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

E/I EZTYPE

Galena

Silver and Lead
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,786
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I don't think I can be fully MBTI'd at this point in my life because the system is made for people who are more healthy and in touch with themselves, but telling introversion from extraversion alone hopefully shouldn't be like pulling teeth. What are some key diferences between a true introvert and an extravert who just spent much of their life alone out of social whackness (it's getting better, though...)? Especially if both are heart triad or so-first or second?
 

Honor

girl with a pretty smile
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
1,580
MBTI Type
?
Instinctual Variant
so
I think it comes down to how much interaction with others would you really want with others if you could have your ideal life? There are a lot of disillusioned extroverts out there who would actually want a lot of interaction with others but can't find suitable people to interact with and there are a lot of introverts out there who "act" like extroverts because they think that's what it takes to be successful or "normal." But if you could have your ideal circumstances, would you prefer having more social time or more alone time?
 

Galena

Silver and Lead
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,786
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
But if you could have your ideal circumstances, would you prefer having more social time or more alone time?
Plenty of colorful social activity punctuated with a day or two at a time to myself, but there would definitely be more of the former. I don't need a reason to go out. Why do that? Why does anyone need to know that? Why go there? How much is that worth? What does it mean? I often can't answer those questions in words and feel dumb when I am expected to, just knowing that participating and trying stuff is worth itself. I identify with my actions above all else, and if I haven't interacted with people or outer things in too long, I start to to know less who I am. I have plenty of ideas, plenty of thoughts, colorful worlds and shiny alternate lives inside, but they're not real. They're not knowledge or identity, even if they can keep me entertained and drugged on them for years if need be. That's how I've been through almost every single MBTI type before suspending the effort: getting into the stuff while isolated. Having reasoning and inspiration galore, but nothing I can actually believe in as conclusive until it's been lived.

So your question was easy to answer; as you can guess from above, I just never imagined my ideals were informative of real personality type until they'd made it outside into my behavior. That's a rigid way to look at type, though, now that I read my shit over. I'm open to anything here! :)
 

Honor

girl with a pretty smile
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
1,580
MBTI Type
?
Instinctual Variant
so
Plenty of colorful social activity punctuated with a day or two at a time to myself, but there would definitely be more of the former. I don't need a reason to go out. Why do that? Why does anyone need to know that? Why go there? How much is that worth? What does it mean? I often can't answer those questions in words and feel dumb when I am expected to, just knowing that participating and trying stuff is worth itself. I identify with my actions above all else, and if I haven't interacted with people or outer things in too long, I start to to know less who I am. I have plenty of ideas, plenty of thoughts, colorful worlds and shiny alternate lives inside, but they're not real. They're not knowledge or identity, even if they can keep me entertained and drugged on them for years if need be. That's how I've been through almost every single MBTI type before suspending the effort: getting into the stuff while isolated. Having reasoning and inspiration galore, but nothing I can actually believe in as conclusive until it's been lived.

So your question was easy to answer; as you can guess from above, I just never imagined my ideals were informative of real personality type until they'd made it outside into my behavior. That's a rigid way to look at type, though, now that I read my shit over. I'm open to anything here! :)
Well, the thing is you do have to factor in your ideal situation because we all have to modify our behavior to make our lives work in whatever environments we find ourselves in. Those adaptations can make us look like we're a type we're not. You strike me as more of an extrovert than an introvert, btw ;)
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Big difference between social extraversion and cognitive extraversion. The two often overlap but do not have to. The answer to cognitive intro/extraversion - MBTI intro/extraversion - is how much attention you pay to your internal landscape, versus how much attention you pay to you external landscape. As a cognitive extravert, I spend more of my attention focusing on stimuli outside of my mind. As a cognitive introvert, my boyfriend spends more of his attention focusing on thoughts triggered within his mind.

Image isn't mine, but it's accurate.

IntrovertImage02_2.jpg


So a socially introverted cognitive extravert like myself still spends most of their time contemplating things outside themself and responding to stimuli outside themself - whereas a cognitive introvert will spend most of their time contemplating thoughts they're turning around within themself and responding to stimuli created within themself.
 

Galena

Silver and Lead
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,786
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
So a socially introverted cognitive extravert like myself still spends most of their time contemplating things outside themself and responding to stimuli outside themself - whereas a cognitive introvert will spend most of their time contemplating thoughts they're turning around within themself and responding to stimuli created within themself.
So, a socially extraverted cognitive introvert can be all about pursuing outer stimuli for the responses it stirs up inside them and the inner purposes it serves?
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
So, a socially extraverted cognitive introvert can be all about pursuing outer stimuli for the responses it stirs up inside them and the inner purposes it serves?

Hm, I can't claim to know for sure, that does sound like it could work. I don't know about "all about" pursuing external stimuli, but they could certainly be into external information. I know my boyfriend as a Si dominant is a voracious collector of external information, as are essentially all Ni dominants I have ever run across. They process it differently than me, though, making internal contructs... or like, internal data points, like "this is a mother" (Si/Ne internal construct of a mother / characteristics that identify a mother) or "this is the performance of mothering" (Ni/Se construct of mothering / mother-pattern archetype), as opposed to how Ne would work, seeing a mother and then making the external connections to historical mother figures, religious mother figures, Mother's Day, mother vs. father, baby stuff, what one's mother is like and associations with one's mother, etc. But as a side note, it often seems to me like IxxJs tend to have certain specific areas of interest, and they tend to go deeply into those areas and really flesh out their knowledge, whereas most other types are a little more broad - and of course IxxPs are technically Judging first, so they tend to be less motivated by pure information gathering and more motivated by usage of logic (Ti dom) or value (Fi dom).

When I think of socially extraverted cognitive introverts, I think about introverts, often INFJ, ISFJ, ISFP, and sometimes ISTP, who don't tend to be as shy about socially engaging - usually the IxFJs because Fe helps them have a good sense of appropriate interaction and because as Js they tend to have some kind of agenda/purposeful plan of action, and usually the ISxPs because they're pretty laid-back and get a kick out of following Se lines of external potential, which can involve engaging other people. I think when cognitive introverts are social extraverts, it's often because of the influence of the extraverted auxiliary function. INxxs in general probably feel less drive to be social because they tend to get the most pleasure from entertaining mental concepts and theories while IxTxs in general probably feel less drive to be social because they don't have the Fe sense of influence/connection or the Fi desire to empathize.
 

Galena

Silver and Lead
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,786
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I know my boyfriend as a Si dominant is a voracious collector of external information, as are essentially all Ni dominants I have ever run across. They process it differently than me, though, making internal contructs... or like, internal data points, like "this is a mother" (Si/Ne internal construct of a mother / characteristics that identify a mother) or "this is the performance of mothering" (Ni/Se construct of mothering / mother-pattern archetype), as opposed to how Ne would work, seeing a mother and then making the external connections to historical mother figures, religious mother figures, Mother's Day, mother vs. father, baby stuff, what one's mother is like and associations with one's mother, etc.
How about Se, if you're familiar?

But as a side note, it often seems to me like IxxJs tend to have certain specific areas of interest, and they tend to go deeply into those areas and really flesh out their knowledge, whereas most other types are a little more broad - and of course IxxPs are technically Judging first, so they tend to be less motivated by pure information gathering and more motivated by usage of logic (Ti dom) or value (Fi dom).
That's why I've been doubting being any sort of J-dom, and what I meant with all the "why" questions earlier. I'm too inclined to run free of evaluation, and it's not all good. Example: I wouldn't make a good movie critic because I can find something enjoyable or at least amusing to latch onto in every show. When I was a kid, I always lost at "You Laugh, You Lose". It closes in: you can't just see the good in everyone; eventually you have to call somebody wrong to have any real moral solidity or, for that matter, safe boundaries at all. You need to define who is most important to you and work on those relationships because you know. For others' sake, sometimes you have to be able to explain why you did something. You need a reference for worth that goes beyond color, taste, sound, and motion (those enticing attributes of the imagination and reality). Ideas need to be refined to be useful, not just numerous. Very much transitioning right now and catching up on security in life.

INxxs in general probably feel less drive to be social because they tend to get the most pleasure from entertaining mental concepts and theories while IxTxs in general probably feel less drive to be social because they don't have the Fe sense of influence/connection or the Fi desire to empathize.
IXTX parents just don't understand.
Will+Smith+willsmith.jpg
:D Bless their souls. My siblings and I were all Fs. :D
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
How about Se, if you're familiar?

Meh, it's my worst function. As far as I understand, it'd be something along the lines of recognizing the real-time, concrete person "my mother", whoever she may be - as opposed to some abstract conception of "a mother" - and some present-time physical detail about her presence, and then regarding action potentials that run along with that, like how your mother is influencing the environment, how it's influencing her, how your presence is an influence on her and your shared environment, and sort of how you can move on from there, like the different sensory potentials that situation offers, including how you can get the most concrete impact out of that scenario... probably a poor description, but it's a shot.

That's why I've been doubting being any sort of J-dom, and what I meant with all the "why" questions earlier. I'm too inclined to run free of evaluation, and it's not all good. Example: I wouldn't make a good movie critic because I can find something enjoyable or at least amusing to latch onto in every show. When I was a kid, I always lost at "You Laugh, You Lose". It closes in: you can't just see the good in everyone; eventually you have to call somebody wrong to have any real moral solidity or, for that matter, safe boundaries at all. You need to define who is most important to you and work on those relationships because you know. For others' sake, sometimes you have to be able to explain why you did something. You need a reference for worth that goes beyond color, taste, sound, and motion (those enticing attributes of the imagination and reality). Ideas need to be refined to be useful, not just numerous. Very much transitioning right now and catching up on security in life.

ESFP? :)


IXTX parents just don't understand.
:D Bless their souls. My siblings and I were all Fs. :D

:laugh: Yeah, sometimes genetics is a trip.
 

Galena

Silver and Lead
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,786
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
As far as I understand, it'd be something along the lines of recognizing the real-time, concrete person "my mother", whoever she may be - as opposed to some abstract conception of "a mother" - and some present-time physical detail about her presence,
This is the part that resonates with me most.

What is your favorite place for type info? I often want to read about ESFP because, for whatever it's worth, I get the result on tests often, but Se dominant types just elude descriptions with much dimension or consideration of other functions at work. How they're not intellectually engaged, they don't daydream, they don't worry, they're totally uninterested in fiction, they never think about what's going on...it doesn't seem realistic.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think it comes down to how much interaction with others would you really want with others if you could have your ideal life? There are a lot of disillusioned extroverts out there who would actually want a lot of interaction with others but can't find suitable people to interact with and there are a lot of introverts out there who "act" like extroverts because they think that's what it takes to be successful or "normal." But if you could have your ideal circumstances, would you prefer having more social time or more alone time?

I'll add to this by saying it comes down to how much interaction with the world you would really want in your ideal life. Extroversion is not just social.
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
This is the part that resonates with me most.


What is your favorite place for type info? I often want to read about ESFP because, for whatever it's worth, I get the result on tests often, but Se dominant types just elude descriptions with much dimension or consideration of other functions at work. How they're not intellectually engaged, they don't daydream, they don't worry, they're totally uninterested in fiction, they never think about what's going on...it doesn't seem realistic.

Totally agreed - I don't like a lot of ESFP descriptions. My favorite explanation of Se is actually Socionics Se, because even though I don't agree with the whole Socionics system, I really like how they explain the function.

Wikisocion said:
Extroverted sensing includes the ability to know how much power, force, or influence is latent or required.

Types that value Se are much more comfortable with direct behavior aimed at making an immediate impact. This may at times be perceived as abrasive, particularly by types who do not value Se.There is usually a competitive edge to this style of group interaction, resulting in a more intense atmosphere than that of Si-valuing quadras. They appreciate contemplating possibilities only if they feel like they stand to gain something from it, or it has a perceived potential impact on "the real world".

Unlike Si, which is about one's subjective sensory experience (how intense or enjoyable it is), Se is about achieving an object of desire. It gives one the ability to influence, bend, and push situations and people in order to achieve such an object, rather than to enjoy the situation one is in.

Se as a base (1st) function (SLE and SEE)

The individual feels at home among people who are actively doing something and interacting with each other directly (visibly), and is able to organize people, move them around as necessary, and guide them in achieving a specific goal. He or she likes obedience and even subservience in others, since it allows him to "make things happen" more effectively.

He is keenly aware of territorial conflicts and confrontational behavior occurring around him. He very quickly becomes confrontational when others try to make him move or get him to do something in an aggressive or confrontational way. He quickly recognizes when people are trying to get each other to do something or are trying to organize him for some purpose. He also spontaneously uses aggression to achieve his own goals.

He wants to make all decisions himself about what he will do, wear, eat, look like, etc., and resents any attempts by others to make these decisions for him. However, he is willing to make use of other peoples' ideas, advice, and creativity, as long as he plays the most visible role.

He enjoys testing his will in challenging situations and views life as a sort of obstacle course, full of adversity and challenges, that must be weathered and conquered.

Se as a creative (2nd) function (LSI and ESI)

The individual takes direct action to accomplish his goals and desires in the face of external obstacles, and also the interests of his close friends, family, or associates. This may involve prodding others to take necessary action, deliberately applying pressure in specific situations, or abruptly taking on an organizational role. The individual does not generally seek out confrontation, but he is also not afraid of it.

He takes his responsibilities seriously and tends to perform them diligently and with care. He expects the same of others.

I like this ESFP Motivator Presenter description, too -

Berens and Nardi said:
ESFP Theme

For Motivator Presenters, life is a process of stimulating action—getting things going to get things done— preferably having a variety of projects going at once. It is not enough to just have a feeling; it is important to act on that feeling. They accomplish an amazing amount, often juggling a wide range of projects—all with a sense of style. They have a talent for presenting things with a “look”, with flair, and so others can more easily understand and use those things. They are the “natural actors” who meet what the environment gives them and engage others. They enjoy opening up people to all the possibilities they see. Instead of roadblocks and problems, they see challenges.

They have a healthy respect for freedom, theirs and others. Freedom is so important to them that anything that takes it away meets with strong resistance, even on small matters. Freedom from boredom gives them the strength to do what they need to but don’t want to. For them, anything is possible as long as they have freedom! Taking what others view as risk is part of their daily life. They perceive a choice as risky only when it would limit their options and variety.

In their thought processes, they often experience a swirl of input all at once. To manage all these nearly simultaneous perceptions, they want to know what is relevant so they can focus their attention—what’s the goal? Then they process the information so fast, they know what is important and what is wanted—they “get it.” Then they want to be off, achieving the goal. They often find it frustrating to have to stay tuned in, while others are delving deeper or going methodically from A to Z.

Many aspects of life interest them and they have a love of learning. Their talent for displaying and presenting information gets people interested, excited, and involved.

Interpersonally, they are warm and friendly. People open up and relate easily to them. Others are often charmed by their genuine caring, willingness to help, and generosity. They are keen observers of others and very alert to nonverbal cues. They are responsive to those clues, often adapting to others’ wishes to make their lives easier and happier. They want to give others the freedom they so value themselves.

Even though they have a talent for noticing and responding to nonverbal cues, they can place meaning on them that was not intended. When they misread others’ intentions, they can find themselves trapped in a web of complexities.

I also like this blurb -

Truity said:
ESFPs live in the moment, enjoying what life has to offer. They are especially tuned into their senses and take pleasure in the sights, sounds, smells, and textures around them. ESFPs like to keep busy, filling their lives with hobbies, sports, activities, and friends. Because they'd rather live spontaneously than plan ahead, they can become overextended when there are too many exciting things to do. An ESFP hates nothing more than missing out on the fun.

Although they are characteristically fun-loving, ESFPs are also typically practical and down-to-earth. They are grounded in reality and are usually keenly aware of the facts and details in their environment, especially as they pertain to people. They are observant of others and their needs, and responsive in offering assistance. ESFPs enjoy helping other people, especially in practical, tangible ways.
 

Galena

Silver and Lead
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,786
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I'd be interested to hear [MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION]'s take on extraverted sensors and writing.

I'll add to this by saying it comes down to how much interaction with the world you would really want in your ideal life.
If that's true, I'm probably over-extraverted. :shrug:

When I started university, for instance, the huge and open setting like none I'd lived in before was heaven to me. I made a hobby of exploring and photographing all of the buildings and grounds, entertained by every little rickety historical detail, shiny lab, design flaw, noisy elevator and silly graffiti. However, I only had someone to do it with for the shortest time and even avoided peak hours because I didn't want to get in the way of people who actually had a productive reason to be there and didn't want to have an exchange like this: "Hey, where are you headed?" "I, er, just haven't seen this building yet." "um" Most people aren't that easily captivated by a weird exit sign or an unfinished corridor, are they? :( While that slightly manic reaction to leaving home is out of my system today, I still regularly go out walking just to be somewhere and see something else, whether or not anyone can join. It's like food.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'd be interested to hear [MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION]'s take on extraverted sensors and writing.


If that's true, I'm probably over-extraverted. :shrug:

When I started university, for instance, the huge and open setting like none I'd lived in before was heaven to me. I made a hobby of exploring and photographing all of the buildings and grounds, entertained by every little rickety historical detail, shiny lab, design flaw, noisy elevator and silly graffiti. However, I only had someone to do it with for the shortest time and even avoided peak hours because I didn't want to get in the way of people who actually had a productive reason to be there and didn't want to have an exchange like this: "Hey, where are you headed?" "I, er, just haven't seen this building yet." "um" Most people aren't that easily captivated by a weird exit sign or an unfinished corridor, are they? :( While that slightly manic reaction to leaving home is out of my system today, I still regularly go out walking just to be somewhere and see something else, whether or not anyone can join. It's like food.

An extravert would define "interaction" quite differently from "exploring" and taking pictures.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Originally Posted by Honor:
I think it comes down to how much interaction with others would you really want with others if you could have your ideal life?

I'll add to this by saying it comes down to how much interaction with the world you would really want in your ideal life. Extroversion is not just social.

Do people misunderstand me on purpose? I am only adding to the point stated, and moreover, it's a common point that extroverts interact with the WORLD, not just with people in the world.
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,589
Enneagram
827
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
and whatever shall weigh in, whether relevant or not, as it'd take at least a day for me to get thoughts in proper order :laugh:

I have been questioning my extroverted credentials lately, as I'm finally getting comfortable with myself in my life. The man and I were playing with ideas of personality the other night and sharing our observations of each other and I got some interesting input. I may appear more open and extroverted on this site as it's a sort of exercise for me to try and practice BEING more open with others... easier since it's NOT real life. Most people who know me in real life don't even know my last name :cheese:

as far as Se having no imagination, that's bullshit. First off, no function operates in a vacuum... where would the experiences and raw material to base imaginative leaps off of COME from without sensing? Secondly, have you ever imagined a place you've never been before? The way that the wind feels on your face, the way that the plants or ocean smell, the heat of the sun or the cool feeling from the dark on your face? You used Se to take it in in the first place to HAVE that data to work with... imagination comes alive with sensing, which I think is a frequently forgotten detail... why bother if you can't LIVE :shrug:

Same applies to writing... the basis for the experiences, the feel of the room when something happens, what something smells or tastes like... those details that make something REAL to someone else. Those are Se details in writing. Of course in the editing process I'm changing A LOT of things and have gone on a Ti research detour of a lifetime (yay for researching things! wiki walks FTW! :holy:)

One piece of writing that always sticks with me is the description of a dry spell being ended by the entrance of the wet season in Monologue of Isabel Watching the Rain Fall on Macondo... it's by Gabriel Garcia Marquez, who thanks to his role in the use of Magical Realism would likely be put squarely into the "Intuitive" category by the forum in general... however, what they'd forget is the way that he can take the details of the sensory experience and make you feel it as if you are there... you can't do that if you've never REALLY lived it... yes, you need to use the intuitive functions, but they're dead bones without the flesh of sensation :)

probably got a little derailed there, sorry... much caffeine has been consumed :coffee:
 

Galena

Silver and Lead
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,786
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Do people misunderstand me on purpose? I am only adding to the point stated, and moreover, it's a common point that extroverts interact with the WORLD, not just with people in the world.
I don't blame you; I really do have trouble getting it, but I won't give up! Thank you for the clarifications.

[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]: The Berens and Nardi description read the most relatably for me, as in it describes things that have always been there helping me out, whether my level of confidence was up or down. Like life fairies. :D A few points, especially this one:
In their thought processes, they often experience a swirl of input all at once. To manage all these nearly simultaneous perceptions, they want to know what is relevant so they can focus their attention—what’s the goal? Then they process the information so fast, they know what is important and what is wanted—they “get it.” Then they want to be off, achieving the goal. They often find it frustrating to have to stay tuned in, while others are delving deeper or going methodically from A to Z.
...look like general ni-se/fi-te things, but honing in on your four is a step! On that point, for just one, what I tend to do when I'm "done" with a discussion is to start looking for small tasks I can volunteer for, because a little motion is better than none. It also sounds like how I study. I'm going to check out more of these authors' work on functions.

The socionics description is a breath of fresh air, although the health and readiness problem I mentioned in the OP came into play as I read..."I remember that from when I was at my best! But it's been so long since I've securely been there..." I'll bookmark it and revisit it as time and treatment goes by, and I do not put pieces in the "reread" box lightly at all. Socionics I've found intimidating, but I want to give it another survey now because of feedback on it like yours.

I have been questioning my extroverted credentials lately, as I'm finally getting comfortable with myself in my life. The man and I were playing with ideas of personality the other night and sharing our observations of each other and I got some interesting input. I may appear more open and extroverted on this site as it's a sort of exercise for me to try and practice BEING more open with others... easier since it's NOT real life. Most people who know me in real life don't even know my last name :cheese:
As far as I know you from this site, huh. I think he might have a point!

as far as Se having no imagination, that's bullshit. First off, no function operates in a vacuum... where would the experiences and raw material to base imaginative leaps off of COME from without sensing? Secondly, have you ever imagined a place you've never been before? The way that the wind feels on your face, the way that the plants or ocean smell, the heat of the sun or the cool feeling from the dark on your face? You used Se to take it in in the first place to HAVE that data to work with... imagination comes alive with sensing, which I think is a frequently forgotten detail... why bother if you can't LIVE :shrug:

Same applies to writing... the basis for the experiences, the feel of the room when something happens, what something smells or tastes like... those details that make something REAL to someone else. Those are Se details in writing. Of course in the editing process I'm changing A LOT of things and have gone on a Ti research detour of a lifetime (yay for researching things! wiki walks FTW! :holy:)

One piece of writing that always sticks with me is the description of a dry spell being ended by the entrance of the wet season in Monologue of Isabel Watching the Rain Fall on Macondo... it's by Gabriel Garcia Marquez, who thanks to his role in the use of Magical Realism would likely be put squarely into the "Intuitive" category by the forum in general... however, what they'd forget is the way that he can take the details of the sensory experience and make you feel it as if you are there... you can't do that if you've never REALLY lived it... yes, you need to use the intuitive functions, but they're dead bones without the flesh of sensation :)
It's a hell of a process. I connect mostly because I'm refining my own tricky bastard of a story right now, although this evokes memories of writing and little trade secrets from when I was just a kid.

Also, looked up and read the Gabriel Garcia Marquez piece. Stuart Dybek's "Pet Milk" came to mind when I read it, although Marquez's monologue I found more distilled in subject and loved for that. Both really invite you inside with shapes, textures, the second-to-second fluctuations in temperature along the border of air and skin.

You can look at the use of sensory details in the reverse of how you put them, too: write about a subject most people remember and know, like what rain feels like, and you can draw out and wring those experiences for all they hold, for a terrific range of people. And it doesn't even have to be one such subject at a time, or a single vacation spot from your childhood to the letter. Some teachers take take the phrase "write what you know" so bluntly that way, but what is a fictional setting but an artful arrangement of sensory atoms the author picked up from here, and there, and way over here...? You hear writers say things like "[character]'s house is a blend of three homes I've lived in and a hotel in the Redwoods." "How Jane feels when she is turned to stone is a blend of hundreds of awkward situations I've lived through, the last week of the rainy season at home, and the feel of several sticky substances I've gotten on my hands."

Someone next to me said, "It's a water wind." And I knew it even before then. From the moment we came out onto the church steps I felt shaken by a slimy feeling in my stomach.
The temperature was neither cold nor hot; it was the temperature of a fever chill.
:D
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
An extravert would define "interaction" quite differently from "exploring" and taking pictures.

I disagree completely. An extravert engages with the external world. Exploring the external landscape and taking photos of external things using an external device can all be very extraverted in nature. This misunderstanding is why ENxPs often get taken for introverts and often think they're introverts - because it's rarely visibly clear they're primarily interacting with abstract concepts outside the self.

Webslinger's not talking about going for a walk alone and bringing a camera - it's a subtle difference in language but one that I think points to extraversion. Personally I can have fun on an exploratory walk alone, but if you made me take an hour-long walk in a barren place I'd probably start getting miserable around 30 minutes in because of the lack of external stimulation.

I don't blame you; I really do have trouble getting it, but I won't give up! Thank you for the clarifications.

[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]: The Berens and Nardi description read the most relatably for me, as in it describes things that have always been there helping me out, whether my level of confidence was up or down. Like life fairies. :D A few points, especially this one:

...look like general ni-se/fi-te things, but honing in on your four is a step! On that point, for just one, what I tend to do when I'm "done" with a discussion is to start looking for small tasks I can volunteer for, because a little motion is better than none. It also sounds like how I study. I'm going to check out more of these authors' work on functions.

That's really interesting. I don't think I've ever thought like that in terms of motion.

The socionics description is a breath of fresh air, although the health and readiness problem I mentioned in the OP came into play as I read..."I remember that from when I was at my best! But it's been so long since I've securely been there..." I'll bookmark it and revisit it as time and treatment goes by, and I do not put pieces in the "reread" box lightly at all. Socionics I've found intimidating, but I want to give it another survey now because of feedback on it like yours.

Yeah, Socionics is a mixed bag, IMO. It's kind of a lot of things thrown together, and I'm not into their Visual Identification theories - like typing people based on physical characteristics. But I do think they've hit on some nuances that other systems have missed, and for that I think it's worth perusal.

whatever said:
One piece of writing that always sticks with me is the description of a dry spell being ended by the entrance of the wet season in Monologue of Isabel Watching the Rain Fall on Macondo... it's by Gabriel Garcia Marquez, who thanks to his role in the use of Magical Realism would likely be put squarely into the "Intuitive" category by the forum in general... however, what they'd forget is the way that he can take the details of the sensory experience and make you feel it as if you are there... you can't do that if you've never REALLY lived it... yes, you need to use the intuitive functions, but they're dead bones without the flesh of sensation :)

Whatever, it's really funny that you bring up Marquez - I had to read One Hundred Years of Solitude in high school. I agree that it might seem intuitive at first glance, but I think it was way more sensory than intuitive, too.
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
It's easy to "disagree completely" with anything simply by twisting it.

:shrug:

You call it twisting; I call it presenting in a different light. I just think that cognitive extraversion is widely misunderstood.
 
Top