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Thread: E/I EZTYPE

  1. #11
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    I think it comes down to how much interaction with others would you really want with others if you could have your ideal life? There are a lot of disillusioned extroverts out there who would actually want a lot of interaction with others but can't find suitable people to interact with and there are a lot of introverts out there who "act" like extroverts because they think that's what it takes to be successful or "normal." But if you could have your ideal circumstances, would you prefer having more social time or more alone time?
    I'll add to this by saying it comes down to how much interaction with the world you would really want in your ideal life. Extroversion is not just social.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    This is the part that resonates with me most.


    What is your favorite place for type info? I often want to read about ESFP because, for whatever it's worth, I get the result on tests often, but Se dominant types just elude descriptions with much dimension or consideration of other functions at work. How they're not intellectually engaged, they don't daydream, they don't worry, they're totally uninterested in fiction, they never think about what's going on...it doesn't seem realistic.
    Totally agreed - I don't like a lot of ESFP descriptions. My favorite explanation of Se is actually Socionics Se, because even though I don't agree with the whole Socionics system, I really like how they explain the function.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikisocion
    Extroverted sensing includes the ability to know how much power, force, or influence is latent or required.

    Types that value Se are much more comfortable with direct behavior aimed at making an immediate impact. This may at times be perceived as abrasive, particularly by types who do not value Se.There is usually a competitive edge to this style of group interaction, resulting in a more intense atmosphere than that of Si-valuing quadras. They appreciate contemplating possibilities only if they feel like they stand to gain something from it, or it has a perceived potential impact on "the real world".

    Unlike Si, which is about one's subjective sensory experience (how intense or enjoyable it is), Se is about achieving an object of desire. It gives one the ability to influence, bend, and push situations and people in order to achieve such an object, rather than to enjoy the situation one is in.

    Se as a base (1st) function (SLE and SEE)

    The individual feels at home among people who are actively doing something and interacting with each other directly (visibly), and is able to organize people, move them around as necessary, and guide them in achieving a specific goal. He or she likes obedience and even subservience in others, since it allows him to "make things happen" more effectively.

    He is keenly aware of territorial conflicts and confrontational behavior occurring around him. He very quickly becomes confrontational when others try to make him move or get him to do something in an aggressive or confrontational way. He quickly recognizes when people are trying to get each other to do something or are trying to organize him for some purpose. He also spontaneously uses aggression to achieve his own goals.

    He wants to make all decisions himself about what he will do, wear, eat, look like, etc., and resents any attempts by others to make these decisions for him. However, he is willing to make use of other peoples' ideas, advice, and creativity, as long as he plays the most visible role.

    He enjoys testing his will in challenging situations and views life as a sort of obstacle course, full of adversity and challenges, that must be weathered and conquered.

    Se as a creative (2nd) function (LSI and ESI)

    The individual takes direct action to accomplish his goals and desires in the face of external obstacles, and also the interests of his close friends, family, or associates. This may involve prodding others to take necessary action, deliberately applying pressure in specific situations, or abruptly taking on an organizational role. The individual does not generally seek out confrontation, but he is also not afraid of it.

    He takes his responsibilities seriously and tends to perform them diligently and with care. He expects the same of others.
    I like this ESFP Motivator Presenter description, too -

    Quote Originally Posted by Berens and Nardi
    ESFP Theme

    For Motivator Presenters, life is a process of stimulating action—getting things going to get things done— preferably having a variety of projects going at once. It is not enough to just have a feeling; it is important to act on that feeling. They accomplish an amazing amount, often juggling a wide range of projects—all with a sense of style. They have a talent for presenting things with a “look”, with flair, and so others can more easily understand and use those things. They are the “natural actors” who meet what the environment gives them and engage others. They enjoy opening up people to all the possibilities they see. Instead of roadblocks and problems, they see challenges.

    They have a healthy respect for freedom, theirs and others. Freedom is so important to them that anything that takes it away meets with strong resistance, even on small matters. Freedom from boredom gives them the strength to do what they need to but don’t want to. For them, anything is possible as long as they have freedom! Taking what others view as risk is part of their daily life. They perceive a choice as risky only when it would limit their options and variety.

    In their thought processes, they often experience a swirl of input all at once. To manage all these nearly simultaneous perceptions, they want to know what is relevant so they can focus their attention—what’s the goal? Then they process the information so fast, they know what is important and what is wanted—they “get it.” Then they want to be off, achieving the goal. They often find it frustrating to have to stay tuned in, while others are delving deeper or going methodically from A to Z.

    Many aspects of life interest them and they have a love of learning. Their talent for displaying and presenting information gets people interested, excited, and involved.

    Interpersonally, they are warm and friendly. People open up and relate easily to them. Others are often charmed by their genuine caring, willingness to help, and generosity. They are keen observers of others and very alert to nonverbal cues. They are responsive to those clues, often adapting to others’ wishes to make their lives easier and happier. They want to give others the freedom they so value themselves.

    Even though they have a talent for noticing and responding to nonverbal cues, they can place meaning on them that was not intended. When they misread others’ intentions, they can find themselves trapped in a web of complexities.
    I also like this blurb -

    Quote Originally Posted by Truity
    ESFPs live in the moment, enjoying what life has to offer. They are especially tuned into their senses and take pleasure in the sights, sounds, smells, and textures around them. ESFPs like to keep busy, filling their lives with hobbies, sports, activities, and friends. Because they'd rather live spontaneously than plan ahead, they can become overextended when there are too many exciting things to do. An ESFP hates nothing more than missing out on the fun.

    Although they are characteristically fun-loving, ESFPs are also typically practical and down-to-earth. They are grounded in reality and are usually keenly aware of the facts and details in their environment, especially as they pertain to people. They are observant of others and their needs, and responsive in offering assistance. ESFPs enjoy helping other people, especially in practical, tangible ways.

  3. #13
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    I'd be interested to hear @whatever's take on extraverted sensors and writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I'll add to this by saying it comes down to how much interaction with the world you would really want in your ideal life.
    If that's true, I'm probably over-extraverted.

    When I started university, for instance, the huge and open setting like none I'd lived in before was heaven to me. I made a hobby of exploring and photographing all of the buildings and grounds, entertained by every little rickety historical detail, shiny lab, design flaw, noisy elevator and silly graffiti. However, I only had someone to do it with for the shortest time and even avoided peak hours because I didn't want to get in the way of people who actually had a productive reason to be there and didn't want to have an exchange like this: "Hey, where are you headed?" "I, er, just haven't seen this building yet." "um" Most people aren't that easily captivated by a weird exit sign or an unfinished corridor, are they? While that slightly manic reaction to leaving home is out of my system today, I still regularly go out walking just to be somewhere and see something else, whether or not anyone can join. It's like food.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    I'd be interested to hear @whatever's take on extraverted sensors and writing.


    If that's true, I'm probably over-extraverted.

    When I started university, for instance, the huge and open setting like none I'd lived in before was heaven to me. I made a hobby of exploring and photographing all of the buildings and grounds, entertained by every little rickety historical detail, shiny lab, design flaw, noisy elevator and silly graffiti. However, I only had someone to do it with for the shortest time and even avoided peak hours because I didn't want to get in the way of people who actually had a productive reason to be there and didn't want to have an exchange like this: "Hey, where are you headed?" "I, er, just haven't seen this building yet." "um" Most people aren't that easily captivated by a weird exit sign or an unfinished corridor, are they? While that slightly manic reaction to leaving home is out of my system today, I still regularly go out walking just to be somewhere and see something else, whether or not anyone can join. It's like food.
    An extravert would define "interaction" quite differently from "exploring" and taking pictures.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #15
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Honor:
    I think it comes down to how much interaction with others would you really want with others if you could have your ideal life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I'll add to this by saying it comes down to how much interaction with the world you would really want in your ideal life. Extroversion is not just social.
    Do people misunderstand me on purpose? I am only adding to the point stated, and moreover, it's a common point that extroverts interact with the WORLD, not just with people in the world.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #16
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    and whatever shall weigh in, whether relevant or not, as it'd take at least a day for me to get thoughts in proper order

    I have been questioning my extroverted credentials lately, as I'm finally getting comfortable with myself in my life. The man and I were playing with ideas of personality the other night and sharing our observations of each other and I got some interesting input. I may appear more open and extroverted on this site as it's a sort of exercise for me to try and practice BEING more open with others... easier since it's NOT real life. Most people who know me in real life don't even know my last name

    as far as Se having no imagination, that's bullshit. First off, no function operates in a vacuum... where would the experiences and raw material to base imaginative leaps off of COME from without sensing? Secondly, have you ever imagined a place you've never been before? The way that the wind feels on your face, the way that the plants or ocean smell, the heat of the sun or the cool feeling from the dark on your face? You used Se to take it in in the first place to HAVE that data to work with... imagination comes alive with sensing, which I think is a frequently forgotten detail... why bother if you can't LIVE

    Same applies to writing... the basis for the experiences, the feel of the room when something happens, what something smells or tastes like... those details that make something REAL to someone else. Those are Se details in writing. Of course in the editing process I'm changing A LOT of things and have gone on a Ti research detour of a lifetime (yay for researching things! wiki walks FTW! )

    One piece of writing that always sticks with me is the description of a dry spell being ended by the entrance of the wet season in Monologue of Isabel Watching the Rain Fall on Macondo... it's by Gabriel Garcia Marquez, who thanks to his role in the use of Magical Realism would likely be put squarely into the "Intuitive" category by the forum in general... however, what they'd forget is the way that he can take the details of the sensory experience and make you feel it as if you are there... you can't do that if you've never REALLY lived it... yes, you need to use the intuitive functions, but they're dead bones without the flesh of sensation

    probably got a little derailed there, sorry... much caffeine has been consumed
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #17
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Do people misunderstand me on purpose? I am only adding to the point stated, and moreover, it's a common point that extroverts interact with the WORLD, not just with people in the world.
    I don't blame you; I really do have trouble getting it, but I won't give up! Thank you for the clarifications.

    @skylights: The Berens and Nardi description read the most relatably for me, as in it describes things that have always been there helping me out, whether my level of confidence was up or down. Like life fairies. A few points, especially this one:
    In their thought processes, they often experience a swirl of input all at once. To manage all these nearly simultaneous perceptions, they want to know what is relevant so they can focus their attention—what’s the goal? Then they process the information so fast, they know what is important and what is wanted—they “get it.” Then they want to be off, achieving the goal. They often find it frustrating to have to stay tuned in, while others are delving deeper or going methodically from A to Z.
    ...look like general ni-se/fi-te things, but honing in on your four is a step! On that point, for just one, what I tend to do when I'm "done" with a discussion is to start looking for small tasks I can volunteer for, because a little motion is better than none. It also sounds like how I study. I'm going to check out more of these authors' work on functions.

    The socionics description is a breath of fresh air, although the health and readiness problem I mentioned in the OP came into play as I read..."I remember that from when I was at my best! But it's been so long since I've securely been there..." I'll bookmark it and revisit it as time and treatment goes by, and I do not put pieces in the "reread" box lightly at all. Socionics I've found intimidating, but I want to give it another survey now because of feedback on it like yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I have been questioning my extroverted credentials lately, as I'm finally getting comfortable with myself in my life. The man and I were playing with ideas of personality the other night and sharing our observations of each other and I got some interesting input. I may appear more open and extroverted on this site as it's a sort of exercise for me to try and practice BEING more open with others... easier since it's NOT real life. Most people who know me in real life don't even know my last name
    As far as I know you from this site, huh. I think he might have a point!

    as far as Se having no imagination, that's bullshit. First off, no function operates in a vacuum... where would the experiences and raw material to base imaginative leaps off of COME from without sensing? Secondly, have you ever imagined a place you've never been before? The way that the wind feels on your face, the way that the plants or ocean smell, the heat of the sun or the cool feeling from the dark on your face? You used Se to take it in in the first place to HAVE that data to work with... imagination comes alive with sensing, which I think is a frequently forgotten detail... why bother if you can't LIVE

    Same applies to writing... the basis for the experiences, the feel of the room when something happens, what something smells or tastes like... those details that make something REAL to someone else. Those are Se details in writing. Of course in the editing process I'm changing A LOT of things and have gone on a Ti research detour of a lifetime (yay for researching things! wiki walks FTW! )

    One piece of writing that always sticks with me is the description of a dry spell being ended by the entrance of the wet season in Monologue of Isabel Watching the Rain Fall on Macondo... it's by Gabriel Garcia Marquez, who thanks to his role in the use of Magical Realism would likely be put squarely into the "Intuitive" category by the forum in general... however, what they'd forget is the way that he can take the details of the sensory experience and make you feel it as if you are there... you can't do that if you've never REALLY lived it... yes, you need to use the intuitive functions, but they're dead bones without the flesh of sensation
    It's a hell of a process. I connect mostly because I'm refining my own tricky bastard of a story right now, although this evokes memories of writing and little trade secrets from when I was just a kid.

    Also, looked up and read the Gabriel Garcia Marquez piece. Stuart Dybek's "Pet Milk" came to mind when I read it, although Marquez's monologue I found more distilled in subject and loved for that. Both really invite you inside with shapes, textures, the second-to-second fluctuations in temperature along the border of air and skin.

    You can look at the use of sensory details in the reverse of how you put them, too: write about a subject most people remember and know, like what rain feels like, and you can draw out and wring those experiences for all they hold, for a terrific range of people. And it doesn't even have to be one such subject at a time, or a single vacation spot from your childhood to the letter. Some teachers take take the phrase "write what you know" so bluntly that way, but what is a fictional setting but an artful arrangement of sensory atoms the author picked up from here, and there, and way over here...? You hear writers say things like "[character]'s house is a blend of three homes I've lived in and a hotel in the Redwoods." "How Jane feels when she is turned to stone is a blend of hundreds of awkward situations I've lived through, the last week of the rainy season at home, and the feel of several sticky substances I've gotten on my hands."

    Someone next to me said, "It's a water wind." And I knew it even before then. From the moment we came out onto the church steps I felt shaken by a slimy feeling in my stomach.
    The temperature was neither cold nor hot; it was the temperature of a fever chill.
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  8. #18
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    An extravert would define "interaction" quite differently from "exploring" and taking pictures.
    I disagree completely. An extravert engages with the external world. Exploring the external landscape and taking photos of external things using an external device can all be very extraverted in nature. This misunderstanding is why ENxPs often get taken for introverts and often think they're introverts - because it's rarely visibly clear they're primarily interacting with abstract concepts outside the self.

    Webslinger's not talking about going for a walk alone and bringing a camera - it's a subtle difference in language but one that I think points to extraversion. Personally I can have fun on an exploratory walk alone, but if you made me take an hour-long walk in a barren place I'd probably start getting miserable around 30 minutes in because of the lack of external stimulation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    I don't blame you; I really do have trouble getting it, but I won't give up! Thank you for the clarifications.

    @skylights: The Berens and Nardi description read the most relatably for me, as in it describes things that have always been there helping me out, whether my level of confidence was up or down. Like life fairies. A few points, especially this one:

    ...look like general ni-se/fi-te things, but honing in on your four is a step! On that point, for just one, what I tend to do when I'm "done" with a discussion is to start looking for small tasks I can volunteer for, because a little motion is better than none. It also sounds like how I study. I'm going to check out more of these authors' work on functions.
    That's really interesting. I don't think I've ever thought like that in terms of motion.

    The socionics description is a breath of fresh air, although the health and readiness problem I mentioned in the OP came into play as I read..."I remember that from when I was at my best! But it's been so long since I've securely been there..." I'll bookmark it and revisit it as time and treatment goes by, and I do not put pieces in the "reread" box lightly at all. Socionics I've found intimidating, but I want to give it another survey now because of feedback on it like yours.
    Yeah, Socionics is a mixed bag, IMO. It's kind of a lot of things thrown together, and I'm not into their Visual Identification theories - like typing people based on physical characteristics. But I do think they've hit on some nuances that other systems have missed, and for that I think it's worth perusal.

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever
    One piece of writing that always sticks with me is the description of a dry spell being ended by the entrance of the wet season in Monologue of Isabel Watching the Rain Fall on Macondo... it's by Gabriel Garcia Marquez, who thanks to his role in the use of Magical Realism would likely be put squarely into the "Intuitive" category by the forum in general... however, what they'd forget is the way that he can take the details of the sensory experience and make you feel it as if you are there... you can't do that if you've never REALLY lived it... yes, you need to use the intuitive functions, but they're dead bones without the flesh of sensation
    Whatever, it's really funny that you bring up Marquez - I had to read One Hundred Years of Solitude in high school. I agree that it might seem intuitive at first glance, but I think it was way more sensory than intuitive, too.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I disagree completely. An extravert engages with the external world.
    It's easy to "disagree completely" with anything simply by twisting it.
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  10. #20
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    It's easy to "disagree completely" with anything simply by twisting it.


    You call it twisting; I call it presenting in a different light. I just think that cognitive extraversion is widely misunderstood.

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