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  1. #31
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    *Resists the urge to succumb to my female vs. male, competitive instinct to debate and assert that Ne is a far more intellectually enlightening function/process than Ti is, or will ever be*
    What do you mean by female vs. male?

  2. #32
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Lol, since I am an in a particularly insomnimaniacal eNErgetic mood, I'll indulge you with my "flawed" baseline to my theory.

    Ne sees and processes a whole lot of everything in a whole lot of "things", so to speak.

    Ne fosters insight whereas Ti fosters "proof" of Ne's insight.

    And, honestly, I ever so humbly thank you, Ti dom guys, for we, (Ne doms), appreciate all the hard, excruciating, meticulous work that you do.

    Keep up the good work guys!!

    I see the universe in a zygote, the truth in a tree...

    And you guys provide me with all the facts about mitochondria and leaves!!!

    Mitochondria synthesize the photoreceptors that chemically adjust your eyescapes as to better utilize your Ne.

    Without this knowledge, we would be unable to offer complex optometry; an inextricable componential field to ocular Ne...!

  3. #33
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    This is where I got the impression that when you said "feeling" you really meant "emotion".
    Huzzaholdup, wait a minute,

    This statement of mine...

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    I know Fi, at least, requires a whole helluva a lot of contemplation and reflection, i.e. *thinking*.
    Honestly led you to believe I was talking about "feeling" as an "emotion" and not as a partially cognitively-infused feeling-oriented process?!?!?

    I probably am...I just really really like NF's, so I am in denial!
    Lol, I can relate, I find myself envying/appreciating, hell, even to the point of my trying to emulate NT's because I like 'em so much.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #34
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Honestly led you to believe I was talking about "feeling" as an "emotion" and not as a partially cognitively-infused feeling-oriented process?!?!?
    EVERYBODY FEELS!!! (except, perhaps, for sociopaths or those who suffer from alexithymia, though I'd even argue that they too feel, in the "human" sense, to some degree).
    Thinkers, I think, have more difficulty coping with their "humanness" if you will because they, lol, *feel* uncomfortable with their feelings.

    My feelings, my instincts, my intuitions, my compassion and empathy tend to steer me in the right direction, it is only when I over-think and analyze the world and people into meaningless pieces, that I, as a "feeler", begin to feel uncomfortable and ill at ease.
    Well, these are what led me to think that as well. The feeling process can be analytical too, though in a different way (although don't ask me how, as this seems to be a very fuzzy distinction).

  5. #35
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    I agree. Everyone needs a value system. I'd say the "gut-feel" the pure thinker, (and I doubt there has ever been such a thing), pays most attention to is that thinking is capable of making distinctions--between A and non-A, between being and non-being. In the beginning, for the thinker, any system of logic that does neither of these things is not thinking: without these assumptions there is no logos, no ability to speak a meaningful word. Can this be proven? Not positively, but it can be negatively. For to even ask that this be proven requires the inquirer presuppose the normativity of these axioms to even raise the question.
    As it relates to MBTI theory, would you call this a "thinker's" process or cognition itself? Because if this is only specific to the thinking process (Ti/Te) then all feelers must also be thinkers. However, in no definition of thinking do I see any indication that a thinker must also be a feeler to some degree. Jung's definition of thinking explicitly precludes this.

    Or am I misunderstanding what feeling (Fi/Fe) is (because that is highly possible)?

  6. #36
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    What do you mean by female vs. male?
    Nothing of public importance, I was just expressing my sexist urge to put men in their proper, i.e. inferior place.

    Lol!

    (joke)

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Mitochondria synthesize the photoreceptors that chemically adjust your eyescapes as to better utilize your Ne.

    Without this knowledge, we would be unable to offer complex optometry; an inextricable componential field to ocular Ne...!
    Once again, thanks guys!!!

    But, it should be noted, that I just so happened to be born with perfect 20/20 vision, so... in both essence and practicality I needn't rely, depend on, or even be cognizant of such complex optometric things/technological advancements.

    But, for Samuel De Mazarin as well as all other genetically, optically-challenged Ne dom individuals, I thank and appreciate your Ti-induced scientific optometric advancements!

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Well, these are what led me to think that as well. The feeling process can be analytical too, though in a different way (although don't ask me how, as this seems to be a very fuzzy distinction).
    Well, those would, but too bad I told you this...

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Please reread my concise description of what exactly it means/signifies to experience Fi.
    *I'm incorrigible, I know*
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  7. #37
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    But, it should be noted, that I happened to be born with perfect 20/20 vision, so... in both essence and practicality I needn't rely, depend on, or even be cognizant of such complex optometric things/technological advancements.
    And...who told you that you had 20/20 vision, I wonder...?


  8. #38
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I agree. I never said that basic reason is unreliable, or somehow less reliable than systematized reason (that would be an absurd statement). All I was saying is that to define Ti/Te as functions that rely on logical systems is not very precise because we only know what logic is because of logic. The "logical systems" are derived from a more basic kind of reasoning, so how can we principally use these systems when they do not even fully capture what it is to reason?
    Not precise is a charitable way to say it.

    Make the more basic reason the principal, and think of the derived systems in light of that.

  9. #39
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Make the more basic reason the principal, and think of the derived systems in light of that.
    Easy enough I suppose...but what *is* the more basic reason? The whole concept seems to be impenetrable. And is this more basic reason fundamental to cognition? And if it is, then that would mean that the feeling function is subsumed by logic.

  10. #40
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    And...who told you that you had 20/20 vision, I wonder...?

    Apparently I am *not* the only incorrigible one here.

    Lol, I don't even recall or care, for that matter, of whomever happened to tell me/inform me that I have 20/20 vision, in fact, it is quite possible that I've never even been "professionally" *told* of this "fact", why? Because I have never needed to seek out professional help/advice/confirmation or counsel on my eyesight because, well, it's never posed a problem for me.

    So there...

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

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