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  1. #21
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    That doesn't sound like the groups of INTPs I've worked with or discussed projects with. They are pretty much always open to alternative ideas, even once they've reached a conclusion (ie probably never).
    Your last phrase (probably never) is the key. They're actually dominant Judging types (Thinking is the function they use to come to judgments) but it goes on internally so the world, especially their teams, sees their Perceiving functions at work. When they do form their opinion--and some of our greatest INTP scientists and philosophers worked their whole lives on refining their theories--they tend to be quite certain about it...

  2. #22
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    Your last phrase (probably never) is the key. They're actually dominant Judging types (Thinking is the function they use to come to judgments) but it goes on internally so the world, especially their teams, sees their Perceiving functions at work. When they do form their opinion--and some of our greatest INTP scientists and philosophers worked their whole lives on refining their theories--they tend to be quite certain about it...
    It's not a hallmark though. The hallmark is one of endless refining, and wanting to keep the theory open, and not wanting to form that opinion.

  3. #23
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leysing View Post
    I live with three S types, and I have noticed a very big difference between "me" and "them".

    I'm the only one in this family who thinks about the consequences.

    I was shocked when discussing with my mother and sister the told me that they never think about consequences and always live in the exact here and now.

    Then I realized that the explanation is the simple thing that always pops up in MBTI.

    S = present, facts
    N = future, possibilities and ideas.
    Thinking of consequences and precedents being set is often a strength of the Thinking preference.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    Another way of thinking about Sensing vs. Intuition is

    Sensing: A powerful way of knowing not just what is but the way it's supposed to be. For example, Sensing types see the value in traditions, recognize how a room or desk or process can be most efficiently organized.

    Intuition: A powerful way of knowing what could be. Whereas Sensing types are rightfully suspicious of hunches that come from nowhere, Intuitive types who are allowed to nurture that ability learn that their sense of what should change or what could be different or what to try that hasn't been tried before are often dead on.

    edcoaching
    Doesn't that have a bit of MBTI step two spin on it? I had an ESFP roomate my freshmen year in high school, and he was even more disorganized than me. I don't think an extraverted sensing preference neccesarily gives someone a drive to organize *things* in thier space, and I definately don't see that stemming from anything I know about Se.
    Extraverted sensing types also seem to resist tradition.

  5. #25
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Okay, an SP, an SJ, an NP, and an NJ are all new recruits to a job. They were all told not to press the red button. This is how all of them react:

    SJ: Oh, it's that shiny red button. They told me not to touch it -- I trust them, it probably does something bad. Better not touch it. *goes back to work*

    NJ: Hmm, a shiny red button. I wonder what it does? Considering where it's positioned, it's probably to an ejector seat. *goes back to work, but ends up getting his tie stuck in the copy machine because he wasn't paying attention and was too busy fantasizing about using the ejector seat on the SJ*

    NP: Hey, a shiny red button! They told me not to touch it, but it's so interesting... It probably does this, or that, or that other thing, or that other other thing *daydreams all the possibilities of what the red button will do, but ends up never actually touching it or getting any work done*

    SP: Ooh! the shiny red button! They told me not to touch it, but it looks so interesting... What does it do? Well, there's only one way to find out, really. *presses button*
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #26
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Agreed, an SP isn't going to be keen on the value of traditional order.
    Eh, it kinda depends on what kind of "traditional order" you're talking about. I mean, we're not too likely to follow a tradition because The Man tells us it's right, but we're quite likely to follow traditions that have been passed down to us but we've experienced enough to see the effectiveness of. I'm likely to follow a "tried and true" method of doing something if I believe that it works, and not feel a strong compulsion to change it.

    Haphazard, I love your little story there. I can think of a time when I was around 11 or 12 or so where I did touch that shiny red button and got a painfully burned hand out of the deal!
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  7. #27
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Okay, an SP, an SJ, an NP, and an NJ are all new recruits to a job. They were all told not to press the red button. This is how all of them react:

    SJ: Oh, it's that shiny red button. They told me not to touch it -- I trust them, it probably does something bad. Better not touch it. *goes back to work*

    NJ: Hmm, a shiny red button. I wonder what it does? Considering where it's positioned, it's probably to an ejector seat. *goes back to work, but ends up getting his tie stuck in the copy machine because he wasn't paying attention and was too busy fantasizing about using the ejector seat on the SJ*

    NP: Hey, a shiny red button! They told me not to touch it, but it's so interesting... It probably does this, or that, or that other thing, or that other other thing *daydreams all the possibilities of what the red button will do, but ends up never actually touching it or getting any work done*

    SP: Ooh! the shiny red button! They told me not to touch it, but it looks so interesting... What does it do? Well, there's only one way to find out, really. *presses button*
    I tend to be part NP and SP in that situation, depending on circumstances I'll probably daydream about the button and imagine all these possibilities then after a few weeks of this I'll be like fuckit and press the button to see if I'm right.


    factors I weigh before pushing the button how much do I like this job? do I need this job? what will be my likely consequence if I do push the button will I get fired or just a warning will I cause the end of the world? if it's too cause the end of the world doesn't matter if I push the button or not because someone will likely already have.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #28
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leysing View Post
    I live with three S types, and I have noticed a very big difference between "me" and "them".

    I'm the only one in this family who thinks about the consequences.

    I was shocked when discussing with my mother and sister the told me that they never think about consequences and always live in the exact here and now.

    Then I realized that the explanation is the simple thing that always pops up in MBTI.

    S = present, facts
    N = future, possibilities and ideas.
    That doesn't ring true with me at all. I've always thought carefully about the consequences before I make any important decision (Ti) whereas my INFP mom goes with what she feels is right, regardless of the consequences (often with disastrous results but anyways...)

    I think this is pretty true to our respective types, too.

    What edcoaching said about Se (presumably) recognizing the most efficient way to organize a room/system/etc is true for me as well. It's a talent I have, and one I enjoy using, although sometimes often I get distracted first...

  9. #29
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    What edcoaching said about Se (presumably) recognizing the most efficient way to organize a room/system/etc is true for me as well. It's a talent I have, and one I enjoy using, although sometimes often I get distracted first...
    And for the Se it might not be about keeping a room organized as much as turning a random gathering of friends into an impromptu Ultimate game with whatever is at hand, or taking an efficient approach to sandbagging a river, or turning a boring hike into an obstacle course for kids in tow, or recognizing the most practical way to help a friend when no one else knows what to do...

    I've been married to an ESTP for decades and it's mostly when we're setting up a new space that I see the physical organization skill kick in, not everyday maintenance of that space. Moving stuff into a new, empty kitchen? He KNOWS the best place to put the silverware, pans, soap, etc. And even though he's not the primary cook (although our second date was his homecooked seafood dinner...) he's always right about such things...

    edcoaching

  10. #30
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post

    I've been married to an ESTP for decades and it's mostly when we're setting up a new space that I see the physical organization skill kick in, not everyday maintenance of that space. Moving stuff into a new, empty kitchen? He KNOWS the best place to put the silverware, pans, soap, etc. And even though he's not the primary cook (although our second date was his homecooked seafood dinner...) he's always right about such things...

    edcoaching
    I loved setting up our kitchen. It's carefully organized for the most efficient use. It actually irritates me a lot when anyone moves things, because it's always to a less optimal area....

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