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  1. #1
    Member EndlessNameless's Avatar
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    Default Consufed about my full enneagram type. Please will anyone help? :)

    I am pretty sure my core number is 4. The problem is I have no idea if I am 4w3, or 4w5. I seem to have both of the characteristics. I also have my weak moments, when I think about being sensitive and idealistic 7 in my core. I would also need some help with figuring out my tritype. I see myself in 4,7,1,9,6 and 3. I have no idea about my instinctual variant.
    - My basic needs are freedom, change, creativity, and chance to express myself
    - I hope I will be successful in life. I want to be a musician and sing in my own band and wirte my own lyrics.
    - I have a strong need for change. I need to be a part of some big change, revolution, or something important. I have strong political ideas, thoughts about how to improove society. I want to make the wolrd a better place, mainly with music!
    - I believe music and art can change everything. If you have the voice to speak to audience, than speak and change injustice, help people!
    - I have strong personal beliefs and tend to be stubborn
    - My biggest fear is: to fall into stereotype and loose my own self
    - I can't have family, stable work, responsibilities! I need freedom, creative space, place to write, sing, be my own self.
    - I need to feel I live my life on 100% . I need a constant change to don't feel bored.
    - I constantly have the feeling I am tied up. Like a lion in the cage. I was thinking about running out from my home and travel around the whole world to find my true self and true place where I'd be happy, but I feel responsible for the feelings of my family members and I don't want them to worry.
    Deep inside I am:
    scared, oversensitive, confused, fear of rejection...
    I extremely fear of being rejected. I've been an outisider during my whole childhood and I was always the "strange kid" and now when someome makes fun of me, or just say something that might be offensive I take it extremly personally and immediately think the person doesn't like and I can't stand this! :-/ . I believe the reason why I am that way is also because of my father...I've never met him, I don't know him and my whole life I hope once I will see him and something like a hole inside of me will be finally gone and I will know who I really am...
    I have extremly low self esteem and still need help from someone else, because I don't believe in my abilities.
    I am confused about who I am and where I belong.
    I am scared of a lot of things...I am not sure if it's the fear typical for 6s, but for sure I have to say I have some issues with fear. I am not really an action hero figure .
    At my best I am:
    - creative, original, smart, analytical, quick thinker, critical, objective, take care about my image and style, take risks, active, have many hobbies from playing the guitar to going to the gym, I am also talkative and social, wild, full of crazy ideas, party loving, fun, easy going
    At my worst I am:
    depressed, negativistic, selfish, egocentric, moody, have extreme highs and lows, creative, artistic (when I am shitty my artistic side just goes mad), self pitting, feel sorry for myself, feel like to world is unfear to me, take everything too personaly, agressive. I tend to knock myself in my "dark place".
    I have problems with:
    self control, organization, negative feelings, I sometimes really like to feel shitty,it helps me to feel complete, moodiness, find the line when "it's enough", sometimes I eat too much, drink too much, party too much, obsessions, fear, anxiety, living too much in fantasy, having too high hopes, self image, finding who I am, confusion...
    In the end I would like to say:
    I think I am very artistic and creative type, that needs a lot of freedom.
    I am highly idealistic. Politicaly I am strong liberal, even anarchist with hippie ideas. I am atheist, but as a philosophy I like budhism. I am vegtetarian, try to live healthly, but as I said I have a poor self control, so I smoke and drink too much and the unhealthly stuff like that... I also have to say I was ADHD, maybe that's why I feel close to 7 description. I also might have borderline, or bipolar personality disordr. I've never been diagnosed, but I don't feel really healthy...

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    sx/sp 4w5, tritype 4-7-9

  3. #3
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    I can't see sx first. I could see some arguments for so like this:

    - I have a strong need for change. I need to be a part of some big change, revolution, or something important. I have strong political ideas, thoughts about how to improove society. I want to make the wolrd a better place, mainly with music!
    - I believe music and art can change everything. If you have the voice to speak to audience, than speak and change injustice, help people!
    I constantly have the feeling I am tied up. Like a lion in the cage. I was thinking about running out from my home and travel around the whole world to find my true self and true place where I'd be happy, but I feel responsible for the feelings of my family members and I don't want them to worry.
    I am highly idealistic. Politicaly I am strong liberal, even anarchist with hippie ideas. I am atheist, but as a philosophy I like budhism.
    Kind of sp:
    I am vegtetarian, try to live healthly, but as I said I have a poor self control, so I smoke and drink too much and the unhealthly stuff like that... I also have to say I was ADHD, maybe that's why I feel close to 7 description. I also might have borderline, or bipolar personality disordr. I've never been diagnosed, but I don't feel really healthy...
    Doesn't speak towards strong sp though but it doesn't seem to be last either.

    As for core type, that's impossible to say with this little information to work with. You only describe superficial traits, not really who you are and what motivates you. For instance, why do you worry so much and why does it feel like your father left a hole inside? Also, did you ever consider ISFP? I can't see the Ne dominance in this. There's a lot of Fi-Te. I also can't really see an argument for Ne-Si here. Se-Ni seems correct to me. You desire work, movement and change in the physical environment and that kind of action. That's Se. Ne is "action in the mind".

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  4. #4
    Member EndlessNameless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    As for core type, that's impossible to say with this little information to work with. You only describe superficial traits, not really who you are and what motivates you. For instance, why do you worry so much and why does it feel like your father left a hole inside? Also, did you ever consider ISFP? I can't see the Ne dominance in this. There's a lot of Fi-Te. I also can't really see an argument for Ne-Si here. Se-Ni seems correct to me. You desire work, movement and change in the physical environment and that kind of action. That's Se. Ne is "action in the mind".
    What should I describe about myself than? I tried to describe what I thought was important for the enneagram.
    For instance, why do you worry so much and why does it feel like your father left a hole inside?
    I wouldn't literally say I worry too much. I don't feel the inner anxiety, or insecurity...just when I get into situations that might be scary other people seem to handle them better and I am always totally scared and want to run away. .
    I've never met my father and I don't know who he is. I grew up only with my mother and my whole life I feel like I know only a half of myself, my identity. Like the other puzzle of my being is missing and I can't find it, and I belive this missing puzzle is my father.
    Also, did you ever consider ISFP?
    When I take the classical MBTI test I always score as intuitive type. The difference between intuition and sensing is usually the biggest one. I made the cognitive functions test and my socre for Se was far the lowest one. I know I can' take these online tests seriously, so I've made a lot of research and alaways came up as XNXP. I filled the questionare on PerC and here and people typed me as ENFP without any doubts, although they've always been many people telling me I use Se and not Ne and that I am ESFP, or ISFP, but I don't think this is right and I don't think you got my infromations right. I don't want a change in the physical world...I want to change the system and politics we live in, because I don't think they are right and fair.I don't know why you think I ment physical change...I want to change THE WORLD we live in for the better future, I want to change myself for the better future, because if there's anything I truelly believe in, it's better tomorrows. I totally idealize the future and it always seems better than the present. I am never satisfied with the present, with what I actually have and I always dream about having something else and being something else and I always hope the future brings me my ideals, that I can't find in the present. I also need change because I get easily bored with old stuff, and I need to surround myself with novelties, that I can discover, study, work on and I always get into new project with my idealism and enthusiasm and I am often dissapointed, because reality doesn't match my high ideals and I need to feel close to my ideas. I actually hate physical action and when it comes to it I usually stay far behind and rather just watch, than participate. I hate sports, I've always been terrible at sports, I hate any actions where I have to use my physical body because I've always been very clumsy. The action of the mind of Ne...Yeah that's me, I wrote I am smart, quick thinker, inteligent. I am good at languages, working with ideas and metaphors and I a for sure would rather read some good poetry book, than play sports outside...I love to think and I love to challange my mind, I hate to chellenge my body. Also ISFPs seem to more into painting, hand made works and I've always been terrible in this. I don't know how to use my body, or hands to create something that looks good. My strong side have always been words. I've always known actually how to use them, and I wrote stories and poems since I've been 7 years old. Maybe you can't see my abilty in using the words here, because english is not my native language and that's also for sure why my type would be influenced by the incorrect used of words.

  5. #5
    Fair and Square Flatlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndlessNameless View Post
    When I take the classical MBTI test I always score as intuitive type. The difference between intuition and sensing is usually the biggest one. I made the cognitive functions test and my socre for Se was far the lowest one. I know I can' take these online tests seriously, so I've made a lot of research and alaways came up as XNXP.
    Well let's see.

    I filled the questionare on PerC and here and people typed me as ENFP without any doubts, although they've always been many people telling me I use Se and not Ne and that I am ESFP, or ISFP,
    These contradict each other. So it really means that some people typed you as ENFP without doubts, and other people suggested Se rather than Ne and hence typed you as xSFP.

    Moving on.

    but I don't think this is right and I don't think you got my infromations right. I don't want a change in the physical world...I want to change the system and politics we live in, because I don't think they are right and fair.
    Well how do you look at 'system' and 'politics'? What do they mean to you?

    People with any function in any position are forced to recognize these things and treat them mentally in some way. You can have an ESFP and an ENFP alike saying they want to change the world's system and politics. On the other hand, there's something curious that happens -

    If you think of the inferior function as the actual heart of a person, the heart they don't see, you can find people who exhibit a flipped idea of the world. Ni dominants who insist that the core is Se. Se dominants who insist that the core is Ni. Etc. So your insistence on using constructs over physical reality may indeed indicate intuition inferiority. Moving on.

    I don't know why you think I ment physical change...I want to change THE WORLD we live in for the better future, I want to change myself for the better future, because if there's anything I truelly believe in, it's better tomorrows.
    Hello rampant Fi use. I don't know why you wouldn't consider Fi dominance for yourself, because you have a ton of it.

    I totally idealize the future and it always seems better than the present. I am never satisfied with the present, with what I actually have and I always dream about having something else and being something else and I always hope the future brings me my ideals, that I can't find in the present.
    This has nothing to do with intuition. It's all in the Fi because it's engaging your judgement of how the present time is. Everyone of every type has an imagination, so 'dreaming of the future' does not necessarily point to a type - Ne doms do see different possible endpoints in whatever direction but they are realistic to the type, not necessarily charged with imagination at all.

    I also need change because I get easily bored with old stuff, and I need to surround myself with novelties, that I can discover, study, work on and I always get into new project with my idealism and enthusiasm
    Fi yet again. Enthusiasm from within.

    Having to surround yourself with novelties, getting bored with old stuff, matches Se over Ne. Constantly seeking new stimulation via the physical.

    and I am often dissapointed, because reality doesn't match my high ideals and I need to feel close to my ideas.
    Alright, the reason all this is Fi:

    First of all, it shows a subjective perspective (reality doesn't match *my* point of view). If you were Ne dominant, I'd expect more of an objective perspective (e.g. reality could be this, it could be that, it could be the other, all perspectives are equal but my Fi guides me to think that this is more likely the case).

    Second of all, it's yet again a statement that you have ideals.

    If we were to look at this from a functional perspective, what do 'ideals' mean? They mean one - you have a Feeling perspective that takes precedence in your psychology. And in your case, since they're subjective, they mean two, that what you have is Fi. And it's all over your writing here - Fi. Fi. Fi. Fi. More definitive Fi than I'd expect from an Ne dominant, even though you don't do any more than ramble about having it (you don't directly share a lot of your ideals).

    I actually hate physical action and when it comes to it I usually stay far behind and rather just watch, than participate.I hate sports, I've always been terrible at sports, I hate any actions where I have to use my physical body because I've always been very clumsy.
    Se is intake and interpretation of sensory data in real time, but not a guarantee that you will be good at sports.

    The action of the mind of Ne...Yeah that's me, I wrote I am smart, quick thinker, inteligent.
    Nothing to do with Ne...

    I am good at languages,
    What method to learning languages do you take?

    working with ideas and metaphors
    Again, anyone of any type will do this. Part of daily life.

    and I a for sure would rather read some good poetry book, than play sports outside...I love to think and I love to challange my mind, I hate to chellenge my body.
    So... social introversion? How did reading and sports turn into a dichotomy in your mind, when they aren't actually exclusionary as things to enjoy? Also, what do you enjoy about books?

    Also ISFPs seem to more into painting, hand made works and I've always been terrible in this. I don't know how to use my body, or hands to create something that looks good. My strong side have always been words.
    The old adage in science is that correlation is not causation. You might be able to make the claim that many ISFPs are more into crafts (I don't know if it's true, and I suspect you don't either), but you can't make the claim that the type ISFP (FiSe) causes this to be the case, and hence you can't prove that it's type dependent.

    Must a Sensing preference lead to a kinesthetically creative preference? I don't think so, perhaps unless you're talking Socionics, where it's specifically defined as such. Especially in someone who's an Fi dom, where Sensing is still subordinate to the person's system of ideals and thinking. At base, at least if you consider it by functions alone, Fi-S(e) is just a way to take in and rationalize data, saying nothing about what fields you might prefer to apply your thinking in.

    I've always known actually how to use them, and I wrote stories and poems since I've been 7 years old. Maybe you can't see my abilty in using the words here, because english is not my native language and that's also for sure why my type would be influenced by the incorrect used of words.
    More relevant than whether or not you like to use words (any type can have a verbal preference) is how you like to use them. You could hypothesize that someone of a Sensing preference might lean toward certain word use, while someone of an Intuitive preference might lean toward another style of word use, but it's again up in the air because type is not a static construct and you have to realize when a person is speaking through their inferior vs. dominant, how they bring other functions into it, etc.

    I agree with considering you Fi dom based on what little I've read here. There's Fi all over the place. I also see a loose argument for a Sensing preference, based on how you seem to consider information and concepts.

    Also I might hypothesize loosely that your Enneagram type includes 7.
    Thinking must serve the thinker.

  6. #6
    Member EndlessNameless's Avatar
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    @Flatlander okay, you gave me tons of informations I have to think about.
    So it really means that some people typed you as ENFP without doubts, and other people suggested Se rather than Ne and hence typed you as xSFP.
    When I made the questionnaire on PerC everyone typed me as ENFP, but when I did some other questionnaire (I think it was Socionics) suddenly people told me that my MBTI type can't be ENFP and that I am mistyped and have to be an xSFP. But I've never subscribed to Se. When I did the PerC questionaire finally after year I was sure about my MBTI type and now someone else is telling me, that I am mistyped...oh okay....
    Well how do you look at 'system' and 'politics'? What do they mean to you?
    There are "leaders" telling us we live in democracy, we have freedom, we have good economics. What is democracy? One inteligent person once said "Democracy is only real, when it's direct." And that's what I agree with. In democratic country people should be able to participate in leading the country, to share their opinions, and to directly influence the politcs. Can we do this? No...There are people telling us what to do, what is right while they are hiding behind big microphone protecting them selves with meaningless phrases and the only thing they can give us is the imagination of freedom, while they manipulate with us. I don't want to live in the imagination of fake and stinky freedom. The only real freedom that politics can give us is only by anarchy. When I say anarchy people usually imagine criminality, murders, chaos...Why? If poeple are mindless half idiotic animals, than yes there would be chaos, criminality and everything will burn out. But if people would really grow up, and think about real matters of life, the anrchy would be free and peacfull choice. Why do anyone tell us we live in a free world? Freedom is relative, don't know if it really can be real, but if we truely would live in the free world there wouldn't be any bounderies, countries, wars, religions, fights...Everything would be shared wihout diffrences (this sound comunistic, I think comunism was a great idea leaded by horrible people). I actually think capitalism is the worst thing that ever happened to our society. It's the modern form of slavery. People depended on money that still their freedom. There's no freedom if you can't afford the same things as everyone else can. Why should there be thousends of poor people and one rich pig bathing in money? What kind of justice is this? People are extremly depended on materialistic things and miss the true values of life.
    And in your case, since they're subjective, they mean two, that what you have is Fi. And it's all over your writing here - Fi. Fi. Fi.
    I know I use a tons of Fi... I am just not an introvert. I feel terrible alone. Company of others is what energizes me. When I am alone I can get depressed very easily and I just have to go out and be with my friends. Even staying at home for a day makes me think I am going to be crazy.
    What method to learning languages do you take?
    Most of what I know I learned by listening to native speakers and reading books.
    How did reading and sports turn into a dichotomy in your mind, when they aren't actually exclusionary as things to enjoy? Also, what do you enjoy about books?
    I know you can enjoy sports and also like reading the books. I just said I'd rather read books, than play sports. Why are you writteing I wrote something I didn't? I enjoy reading poetry and when I listen to music I mostly think about the lyrics and what does it mean.
    BTW: If you really want to doubt my type, than look at my description of my personality I made a few weeks ago on this forum: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...2092-xnfx.html ...Here I wrote mostly everything important about myself and I just don't want to write it here once again...
    Also I might hypothesize loosely that your Enneagram type includes 7.
    I am sure my enneagram type includes 7

  7. #7
    Fair and Square Flatlander's Avatar
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    I don't have time to respond to the full post here, but a few short points for now:

    Quote Originally Posted by EndlessNameless View Post
    I know I use a tons of Fi... I am just not an introvert. I feel terrible alone. Company of others is what energizes me. When I am alone I can get depressed very easily and I just have to go out and be with my friends. Even staying at home for a day makes me think I am going to be crazy.
    Social and cognitive introversion can intersect but they are technically two different things. If you're a cognitive introvert, you come from the subjective perspective first in priority - you form everything mental on its basis. This just means, in the case of Fi, that it all, in your mind, comes down to how the world relates to you, within your own system.

    Social extraversion is what you're describing here - preferring to be in the company of others.

    You can have an Fi dom who is socially extraverted. You can have a Pe (Se or Ne) dom who is socially introverted. The difference is that the Pe dom needs sheer stimulus, be it social or not, to make their world work, and the Fi dom needs room for subjective judgement even while they might enjoy stimulus.

    I know you can enjoy sports and also like reading the books. I just said I'd rather read books, than play sports. Why are you writteing I wrote something I didn't? I enjoy reading poetry and when I listen to music I mostly think about the lyrics and what does it mean.
    It was an implication within what you wrote. I'm picking on you a little since a lot of people make this assumption, but I was wondering what it meant to you, why it was important to point out sports specifically in opposition to books.
    Thinking must serve the thinker.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndlessNameless View Post
    What should I describe about myself than? I tried to describe what I thought was important for the enneagram. I wouldn't literally say I worry too much. I don't feel the inner anxiety, or insecurity...just when I get into situations that might be scary other people seem to handle them better and I am always totally scared and want to run away. .
    Well, enneagram is about the things that motivate your being the most, it defines the core of your character. It's thus irrelevant to know what political movements you support. What's relevant to know is why you feel the need to support such movements.

    I've never met my father and I don't know who he is. I grew up only with my mother and my whole life I feel like I know only a half of myself, my identity. Like the other puzzle of my being is missing and I can't find it, and I belive this missing puzzle is my father.
    Why not more elaboration on this? Why do you feel like your father is the missing puzzle piece?

    When I take the classical MBTI test I always score as intuitive type. The difference between intuition and sensing is usually the biggest one. I made the cognitive functions test and my socre for Se was far the lowest one. I know I can' take these online tests seriously, so I've made a lot of research and alaways came up as XNXP. I filled the questionare on PerC and here and people typed me as ENFP without any doubts, although they've always been many people telling me I use Se and not Ne and that I am ESFP, or ISFP, but I don't think this is right and I don't think you got my infromations right.
    Why is my understanding of you not right? Flatlander already pointed out why I see ISFP being a more likely contender for you than ENFP. Let me show you what Ne cognition looks like when this person was asked to describe the uses of a mug:
    a mug, of course, is primarily used for drinking. But it can also be used as a music instrument. Uh, what came to mind specifically is what Becca did with a cup when she auditioned in the movie pitch perfect(if you watched that movie). i know how to do it and it's kinda cool. well, it can also be used for as a display. you know put some painting on it and put it as a display. wait..uhm..you could actually just smash it to pieces and make a mosaic art with it on another mug. or on a canvas. or anywhere you want. or smash it on someone's head when you're mad. you can catch grasshoppers and other insects with it. haha also you can write dares on pieces of paper and put them in the mug. spin the bottle. whoever gets pointed at will pick a piece of paper from the mugh without looking and do whatever is said on the paper. wait, you can crumple some papers and shoot them on the mug when you're bored. play it with friends if you like. i did that with my brothers before. hmm. talking about my brother and a mug. there was a time when my brother asked for water and i peed on the mug and gave it to him. i was like "here's some juice" LOL. of course he knew what it was and he told our parents about it. i got scolded. it was a stupid way to troll someone. haha. or you could throw the mugs in the air and practice gun-shooting. hmm.. you can also make a story(or a novel) about the mug. "once upon a time there was a boy who discovered a strange mug with hidden powers. blah blah blah..." you can also use two mugs for telephone. you know, put some hole under and connect them with wire. i think it works on tin can, i don't know if it would work on a mug though. you can also just put it on your head and balance it while walking, for amusement. or, if it's strong enough, amaze people by standing on it with one foot while dancing. haha. or you could just mix the former and the latter together. put a mug on your head, stand on a mug with one foot, and amaze people by still managing to dance. hah! put them all together. paint and do mosaic art on a mug and use it for your performance and make music with it and all sorts. haha. you can also just place the mug upside down and put a candle on it. there are many ways to use a mug.
    The way I see you thinking isn't like this at all. The above is a good example of what you could consider "raw" Ne cognition in an Ne dominant. Your cognition seems the most in line with Fi, not Ne. That makes IxFP as opposed to ExFP.

    I don't want a change in the physical world...I want to change the system and politics we live in, because I don't think they are right and fair.I don't know why you think I ment physical change...I want to change THE WORLD we live in for the better future, I want to change myself for the better future, because if there's anything I truelly believe in, it's better tomorrows. I totally idealize the future and it always seems better than the present. I am never satisfied with the present, with what I actually have and I always dream about having something else and being something else and I always hope the future brings me my ideals, that I can't find in the present. I also need change because I get easily bored with old stuff, and I need to surround myself with novelties, that I can discover, study, work on and I always get into new project with my idealism and enthusiasm and I am often dissapointed, because reality doesn't match my high ideals and I need to feel close to my ideas.
    None of this is exemplifies Ne. Rather, it is a good example of Fi reasoning backed up with what seems to be sensation. I'm an FiN type, this is how I'd rewrite and reason what you wrote in the above, and I'll point out the parts that stand out as intuition:

    I don't want to change the physical world because if we are going to change the physical world, we must first change the political system. If we want to improve the world and its living standards and thus have something lead to concrete change, we must first improve the system that governs it, meaning politics. The problem is when we are satisfied with what we already have, as it leads to stagnation and thus there is no longer a need to seek improvement. By working towards to improve society I can thus see how society will be improved over time and I will see my own social ideals realized. It is important to me to work towards a greater sense of meaning and purpose so I feel more in touch with myself and my ideals, as I often find myself disappointed when reality fails to live up to my own standards of how the world should be like.
    I actually hate physical action and when it comes to it I usually stay far behind and rather just watch, than participate. I hate sports, I've always been terrible at sports, I hate any actions where I have to use my physical body because I've always been very clumsy. The action of the mind of Ne...Yeah that's me, I wrote I am smart, quick thinker, inteligent. I am good at languages, working with ideas and metaphors and I a for sure would rather read some good poetry book, than play sports outside...I love to think and I love to challange my mind, I hate to chellenge my body.
    None of this is a strong argument against Se and for Ne. It is rather ironic that you did not understand what I meant with "action in the mind", and you interpreted it in a concrete way, i.e. being a quick thinker interested in languages, working with ideas and metaphors and so on. This is not what I meant with Ne being "the action of the mind" and I'm quite sure an actual Ne type would understand what I meant with this. Read the example of Ne I provided in this post again. This is what I mean by "action in the mind". With Ne you are attuned to the world of possibilities, to the what ifs, could bes and maybes of the world. An Ne type can thus entertain themselves with the possibilities of the world and what can happen in their minds. They can creation "action" this way.

    Also ISFPs seem to more into painting, hand made works and I've always been terrible in this. I don't know how to use my body, or hands to create something that looks good. My strong side have always been words. I've always known actually how to use them, and I wrote stories and poems since I've been 7 years old. Maybe you can't see my abilty in using the words here, because english is not my native language and that's also for sure why my type would be influenced by the incorrect used of words.
    Being a sensor doesn't mean you must be a kinaesthetic learner or like using your body. What it means being a sensor is that you are first of all attuned to the sense world around you. You see things for what they are in a concrete sense rather than the world of intuition, meaning the hidden meanings the world represents that intuitives are attuned to. The way I see things, you seem to first approach the world through a lens of Fi supported with Se, not Ne supported with Fi.

    As for enneatype, I agree, 7 is thus far probably the best fit. There's not enough information to judge core type though.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  9. #9
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndlessNameless View Post
    What should I describe about myself than? I tried to describe what I thought was important for the enneagram. I wouldn't literally say I worry too much. I don't feel the inner anxiety, or insecurity...just when I get into situations that might be scary other people seem to handle them better and I am always totally scared and want to run away. .
    Well, enneagram is about the things that motivate your being the most, it defines the core of your character. It's thus irrelevant to know what political movements you support. What's relevant to know is why you feel the need to support such movements.

    I've never met my father and I don't know who he is. I grew up only with my mother and my whole life I feel like I know only a half of myself, my identity. Like the other puzzle of my being is missing and I can't find it, and I belive this missing puzzle is my father.
    Why not more elaboration on this? Why do you feel like your father is the missing puzzle piece?

    When I take the classical MBTI test I always score as intuitive type. The difference between intuition and sensing is usually the biggest one. I made the cognitive functions test and my socre for Se was far the lowest one. I know I can' take these online tests seriously, so I've made a lot of research and alaways came up as XNXP. I filled the questionare on PerC and here and people typed me as ENFP without any doubts, although they've always been many people telling me I use Se and not Ne and that I am ESFP, or ISFP, but I don't think this is right and I don't think you got my infromations right.
    Why is my understanding of you not right? Flatlander already pointed out why I see ISFP being a more likely contender for you than ENFP. Let me show you what Ne cognition looks like when this person was asked to describe the uses of a mug:
    a mug, of course, is primarily used for drinking. But it can also be used as a music instrument. Uh, what came to mind specifically is what Becca did with a cup when she auditioned in the movie pitch perfect(if you watched that movie). i know how to do it and it's kinda cool. well, it can also be used for as a display. you know put some painting on it and put it as a display. wait..uhm..you could actually just smash it to pieces and make a mosaic art with it on another mug. or on a canvas. or anywhere you want. or smash it on someone's head when you're mad. you can catch grasshoppers and other insects with it. haha also you can write dares on pieces of paper and put them in the mug. spin the bottle. whoever gets pointed at will pick a piece of paper from the mugh without looking and do whatever is said on the paper. wait, you can crumple some papers and shoot them on the mug when you're bored. play it with friends if you like. i did that with my brothers before. hmm. talking about my brother and a mug. there was a time when my brother asked for water and i peed on the mug and gave it to him. i was like "here's some juice" LOL. of course he knew what it was and he told our parents about it. i got scolded. it was a stupid way to troll someone. haha. or you could throw the mugs in the air and practice gun-shooting. hmm.. you can also make a story(or a novel) about the mug. "once upon a time there was a boy who discovered a strange mug with hidden powers. blah blah blah..." you can also use two mugs for telephone. you know, put some hole under and connect them with wire. i think it works on tin can, i don't know if it would work on a mug though. you can also just put it on your head and balance it while walking, for amusement. or, if it's strong enough, amaze people by standing on it with one foot while dancing. haha. or you could just mix the former and the latter together. put a mug on your head, stand on a mug with one foot, and amaze people by still managing to dance. hah! put them all together. paint and do mosaic art on a mug and use it for your performance and make music with it and all sorts. haha. you can also just place the mug upside down and put a candle on it. there are many ways to use a mug.
    The way I see you thinking isn't like this at all. The above is a good example of what you could consider "raw" Ne cognition in an Ne dominant. Your cognition seems the most in line with Fi, not Ne. That makes IxFP as opposed to ExFP.

    I don't want a change in the physical world...I want to change the system and politics we live in, because I don't think they are right and fair.I don't know why you think I ment physical change...I want to change THE WORLD we live in for the better future, I want to change myself for the better future, because if there's anything I truelly believe in, it's better tomorrows. I totally idealize the future and it always seems better than the present. I am never satisfied with the present, with what I actually have and I always dream about having something else and being something else and I always hope the future brings me my ideals, that I can't find in the present. I also need change because I get easily bored with old stuff, and I need to surround myself with novelties, that I can discover, study, work on and I always get into new project with my idealism and enthusiasm and I am often dissapointed, because reality doesn't match my high ideals and I need to feel close to my ideas.
    None of this is exemplifies Ne. Rather, it is a good example of Fi reasoning backed up with what seems to be sensation. I'm an FiN type, this is how I'd rewrite and reason what you wrote in the above, and I'll point out the parts that stand out as intuition:

    I don't want to change the physical world because if we are going to change the physical world, we must first change the political system. If we want to improve the world and its living standards and thus have something lead to concrete change, we must first improve the system that governs it, meaning politics. The problem is when we are satisfied with what we already have, as it leads to stagnation and thus there is no longer a need to seek improvement. By working towards to improve society I can thus see how society will be improved over time and I will see my own social ideals realized. It is important to me to work towards a greater sense of meaning and purpose so I feel more in touch with myself and my ideals, as I often find myself disappointed when reality fails to live up to my own standards of how the world should be like.
    I actually hate physical action and when it comes to it I usually stay far behind and rather just watch, than participate. I hate sports, I've always been terrible at sports, I hate any actions where I have to use my physical body because I've always been very clumsy. The action of the mind of Ne...Yeah that's me, I wrote I am smart, quick thinker, inteligent. I am good at languages, working with ideas and metaphors and I a for sure would rather read some good poetry book, than play sports outside...I love to think and I love to challange my mind, I hate to chellenge my body.
    None of this is a strong argument against Se and for Ne. It is rather ironic that you did not understand what I meant with "action in the mind", and you interpreted it in a concrete way, i.e. being a quick thinker interested in languages, working with ideas and metaphors and so on. This is not what I meant with Ne being "the action of the mind" and I'm quite sure an actual Ne type would understand what I meant with this. Read the example of Ne I provided in this post again. This is what I mean by "action in the mind". With Ne you are attuned to the world of possibilities, to the what ifs, could bes and maybes of the world. An Ne type can thus entertain themselves with the possibilities of the world and what can happen in their minds. They can creation "action" this way.

    Also ISFPs seem to more into painting, hand made works and I've always been terrible in this. I don't know how to use my body, or hands to create something that looks good. My strong side have always been words. I've always known actually how to use them, and I wrote stories and poems since I've been 7 years old. Maybe you can't see my abilty in using the words here, because english is not my native language and that's also for sure why my type would be influenced by the incorrect used of words.
    Being a sensor doesn't mean you must be a kinaesthetic learner or like using your body. What it means being a sensor is that you are first of all attuned to the sense world around you. You see things for what they are in a concrete sense rather than the world of intuition, meaning the hidden meanings the world represents that intuitives are attuned to. The way I see things, you seem to first approach the world through a lens of Fi supported with Se, not Ne supported with Fi.

    As for enneatype, I agree, 7 is thus far probably the best fit. There's not enough information to judge core type though.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  10. #10
    Member EndlessNameless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    The way I see things, you seem to first approach the world through a lens of Fi supported with Se, not Ne supported with Fi.

    As for enneatype, I agree, 7 is thus far probably the best fit. There's not enough information to judge core type though.
    I admit I might be Fi dominant type. When I got into MBTI I typed myself as INFP and than I changed it to ENFP, but maybe I was closer to my real type then, than now.I also thought about being 7 in my core, but I feel extremly close to 4. I just don't know if 4 is my core, or I've became 4 during my growing up.*I decided to do one thing...A few months ago I felt like I need to overlook at myself, personality and life to find my real self and place where I belong and I wrote a lot about myself and about how I feel about my life into my diary. What I wrote is the real me, my real fears, hopes and thoughts. I don't think I can describe my personality and feelings more accurate than that so I decided to write it here. If anyone will read it and type me as ISFP 7 after that, I promise I will never ever doubt my MBTI, or enneagram type again.It's really my raw true self without any fakes... This is what I wrote:
    "I will be famous, I will be on MTV, people will know me. I will be a rockstar, sing in front of 100 000 people at Wembley stadium and I will live the most bohemian life ever. I will take a lot of drugs and die at the age of 27 in my bathtub with bottle of Jack Daniel's in my hand." This is what I thought my life will look like when I was about 14-15. And that's what my selfish narcistic ego wants now.
    But the reality: I will be 20years old at 25th May, I hate the fact I am gemini because I feel like really inside of me are living two different personalities and they are constantly in fight, there is a war inside of me, that won't let me sleep! I have no band, I stopped singing 3years ago and the only thing I do with my talent is singing in my room while listening to freaking Alice in Chains, or Nirvana, or singing with my drunk friends at the middle of the night at street with butle of the cheepest rum in my hand. It's punk-rock, I say to myself. Punk-rockers do meaningless shits like that...It's okay until it's a punk-rock and I didn't sell myself to the mainstream culture. It's still better than being a fake barbie doll, that hunts fat billionaire, because she is not able of making her own money and take care of her own self. But I know I need something more. This just doesn't fulfill myself and I don't want to be drunk punk-rocker, or grunger for the rest of my life. The problem is...the alcohol truly became something like a medicine for me. The escape. I've always been looking for the escapes, from music to experiments with drugs. The only thing I've been searching for in these things was the escape, from the reality and mosty from my own self. My whole life I've been running and escaping from the unpleasent things and couldn't handle any of them. But what if I would finally stop running and I would really face the reality as it is. Unpleasent and unreal at its irony, but anyway...It's here and I have to fight with it. I have to stop hurting my own self with alcohol and self destruction. Why can't I love myself like everyone else does? Why do I still feel the need to hurt my body, or mind? I am raping my own identity, emotionality until there won't be anything inside of me. I am half empty jar with warms inside...I really killed so much of myself. So much of my innocene, mind...I used to be so smart! I used to be so thoughtfull! Now I am nothing of this...I am so empty...
    My thoughts have been rejected
    my feelings have been denied
    what left to an empty mind
    with noone to reflect it?
    I really need to find something. Some goal to give my life a meaning, but what? I created a dream of being a rockstar and anything less than that seems to be hopeless and depressing. I can't believe in any other goal. I need to find something realistic to believe in. Not this freaking hopeless dream. I also need to stop to think about myself so much! I am so selfish! So egocentric! I should rather think about others...About people I like, I should help people more. I should be a better person than this and I know I can. I need to be more realistic! I need to be more down to earth. I should stop viewing the reality as the hurtful place, that I need to escape. I should have a better self control, I should control my emotionality better. I should learn how to express my feelings, because I can't do that. I buttle them all inside and than I am self destructive. I need to fight my life, live my life truely live it! Here and now not in my infeasible dreams and killing myself with hate and hate myself just because I can't be what I want to. I should finally start be happy with what really is, not unhappy with what will never be. Or if I wan' find the goal, or anything real to live for, I will posined myself with alcohol and die like a true rockstar at least at my big birthday party .
    No...I know I wouldn't do it, but...This sounds so depressing. I som much thought I grew up from my depressing moods and everytime I feel like they are finally gone, my depression comes out and I feel like the biigest shit in the world. Why can't I have normal emotions like everyone esle does? It's only high when everything is great and I am on diet, I exercise, take care of myself and my life and that it's that...when everything is meaningless and I don't know what to do...I want to be normal, not experience this crap...Sometimes I wonder if I ever will be happy, or if I've ever been truely happy. I don't mean happines that last fro a few hours, I mean real and full happines. I able to feel simple joy, but I am not able to feel real happiness. And that's the problem...And I think it's a porblem in my head, not in my heart. These things are swerwed up health and nothin else. But sometimes I wonder, do people feel really happy? They talk about hapiness, but do they know what does this word mean? What is it? Why everyone wants to be happy?Is happiness real, or is it just another ilussion created by human mind?

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