Trying to zero in on my type, after looking into functions more. Help please.

[mintleaf]

I don't see you being social last. You ask extensively for others' input and are courteous and socially appropriate. (Not that those who are social last can't be, but it seems like it comes pretty naturally to you.) With my limited understanding of instinctual variants, I would say you're so/sx.

I agree with LeaT on the MBTI assessment, too; definitely Ne-Si, and probably Te. xNFP. I mean, ISFJ would still be a possibility based on that logic, but you seem much more NP than SJ

most likely 5w6, guessing 594 for tritype.

 

[Eric B]

Seem INTP. Sounds like me too.

Also, the stuff about being a kid and "experiencing"; when you're young and the aux. is in the process of developing, the S/N preference is not solidified yet, so you may seem a bit more like both Ne and Se. They haven't "differentiated" from each other yet. But over time, you see that you're better with concepts than with actual experiences, so you lean toward N more and more. "Experience" then becomes internalized; hence Si "nostalgia", which is the expression of a tertiary manifestation of it.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

I am not sure why I am summoned but anyway, here's my analysis:



What you desribe here isn't Fi as much as it sounds like a weaker form of Fe such as tertiary or inferior I think. I get the impression you're seeking external emotional validation as a guideline rather than acting on your own internal values.

I don't think anything you described here points towards the feeling function at all. Same with what you described regarding Fi but you were at least trying to get down with personal values with that one but your vaciliation towards being concerned around external feelings than internal shows a biased towards Fe, not Fi. I'm a 5w4 Fi type and I do not really care much what other people think or feel. It's about me and my feelings and if something feels right or not. Probably exaggerated because I'm soc last.

I'd argue that your desire to fit in groups and seek group belonging probably speaks for a strog soc drive as either first or second, although the part you mention about not relating to people due to interests could point towards sx since sx connects through common like/dislikes and such.

Si isn't about nostalgia, it's about personal interpretations of sense data and awareness of your own body. While Si types can have associations with physical objects it's not the nostalgia that's Si; it's the impressions coming back at you that are. Anyway, the rest probably points strongly towards Si. Could be an auxiliary function in the sense of Ji-Si-Ne-Je.

You're not describing Se here dude, it's all Ne with Si. How did describing your approach towards the physical world end up being about your kind of humor or seeking realism? You're describing an abstract idea that you connect with your personal sense experiences. Also, the inferior description sounds more like you being an HSP kind of person. Inferior Se is more like, "Where did that telephone pole outside my window appear from? Has it always been there? Do I know it exists or not since I can't remember seeing it before?" the kind of thing.

Also the escapism you describe sounds like 5 > 7 or similar and the tree example is Si in a nutshell. The over-indulgance in eating sounds like sp second. I do this too when I realize I've neglected my sp needs so I over-indulge in sleeping, eating and so on.
You're not describing Ti although you are describing your thinking process that seems to be more in line with Ti. Most of all though, you are describing enneagram 5 think. This doesn't say much.

Jumping from one idea to another is Ne, not Te. Also, seeking validation could as well be Fe (the opinions of others) as Te (the external facts). The fact you think there is a right order to how things are arranged suggests judging preference though, and that you think there is a certain systemic order in which they should actually be placed based on an external factual nugget of data (the color scheme) would perhaps be indicative of Te.

If you like creating bars, charts and graphs it could be an attempt to tap into inferior Te like how I do it by playing strategy games that require systematization.

This sounds like Si with Ne rather than Ni.

Yeah, about the only function I think you really nailed correctly here in relation to your own cognition.



Preference towards intuition.

Sounds like it could be Te.


Social instinct imo.

Sounds like Fi judgement.
Disintegration towards 7 really.

Disintegration towards 7.


Si-Ne with a strong visual intelligence/learning style probably.


5 avarice logic.


If you don't probably judging dominant.

Sounds like 5 with a preference towards intuition as you seem to reject sensation.

Te.
Fi!!!!!! This is Fi dominance 101 in socionics.

In socionics this means a devaluing of Ni and Se for most of the part. Kind of safely puts you in the delta quadra.

5 anxiety fearing the unknown.

This logic you describe here is very, very Te. Process-orientation, finishing products and your thinking is very linear strongly suggesting casual-deterministic cognition. Strong possibility for EII-Ne for you.


Ne.



5, Te logic.


Sounds like unconscious Te.


Sounds like enneagram 5 with integration towards 8 and the realization that avarice does not help you to preserve your time and energy.


Fi most likely.


6 influence?


5w4.


Yeah, doesn't denote you being a thinker first if you are willing to sacrifice logic over emotions.

Sounds like sx.
More sx reasoning.

So I do think you're probably right about 5w4 but I'd question whether you are truly sp first. Not much sp to discern in your answers I think. I also think INFP and EII-Ne respectively, and possibly so/sx.

First of all, I summoned you into this thread because when I read your post on my other thread, "Need help with my varient", you struck me as someone who is very knowledgeable about MBTI, and it looks like it indeed showed in your analysis of my OP. Fascinating analysis, actually! Thank you! Some things:

/I chose SP first because of my desire to grow as a better person, by gaining knowledge, creating hobbies for myself, getting my life together, etc. However, I thought that all correlates to being at least sp second. However, this desire for growth is fueled by feelings of worthlessness, emptiness, and other personal things, so maybe this correlates to sx or something else beyond variants, I don't know.
//My desire to fit in with groups is correct, but it's more along the lines of groups of people that I admire and have similar interests, passions, and desires of mine. Lately, my beliefs have been resonating with the saying "I'd rather be alone then befriend people that I don't find interesting", although this isn't always my lot, when I am forced into social situations involving people that I am not too fond of, I will be polite and join in socially, but only for so long. I was thinking about inferior Fe, and the aspect of wanting to fit in with popular groups and such really resonated with me in the past, mainly because I didn't have a lot of insight into human (adolescent) society. Now that I have more insight, I have weeded out what is irrelevant towards my character, interests, or whatever, and focus on befriending people that I have things in common with, or admire. Correlation to --> Fi, sx or other?
///I was taking a walk and reflecting, and it hit me that Si (perhaps tertiary?) might really resonate with me. I was thinking about living in the moment, and it turns out....more than 90% of the time, I think I really don't! Instead I tend to create internal environments based off of external stimuli I am taking in, and they turn into impressions that strongly relate to past impressions of situations, or pure situations that I experienced, consisting of states of mind, feelings, etc. basically something really abstract. In other words, the closest I get to living in the moment is actually living in one of my internal environments that coexist with the external world. In other words, if I am at a concert and I see bright vivid red lights, and there's a certain song with a downtempo-style, I will think of how it reminds me of that one time when I was a kid and I was in the closet, and I had one of those crystal balls and it was giving me the impression that something mysterious and mystical was occurring, or a video game I played that featured a hell-esque environment where demons appeared from lava, or some shit, therefore combination of music + red lights = living in a mystical environment, that I cannot really put into words, you just probably have to be Si (or Ne-Si) to fully understand. I was also wondering if Se-Ni did this, since Ni (being a Pi function) seems to create abstract impressions of external stimuli as well? Other than that, I'd definitely say I relate to Si, which would mean I also have primary Ne.
////I used to sometimes to create bars, and graphs, and charts pertaining to things I was interested in, or ideas, or even things that were occurring in my imagination (fuck, when I was 15 I was so paranoid I created a system (mainly in my head, but I got bored one day so I created a bar graph on a microsoft office application)based off of numbers, pertaining to self-estimates of what people thought of me, in other words, approval of my peers, highest to lowest. Example: Person A: 8.62 (High approval, good friend) Person B: 3.29 (Decent approval, friendly aqquaintance) Person C: 0.98 (Moderate approval, aqquainted, friendly) Person D: -3.63 (Low approval, unfriendly aqquaintance, enemy) Or whatever.)

So, if the Si actually resonates with me, then I am definitely leaning INxP at the moment. I was considering ISTP since some people considered it for me on PerC and Se was convincing for me in my Aux in some ways, plus the whole Ne thing seemed a little off for me, but the more I think about it, I do spawn abstract impressions of my environment.

That's a pretty heterogeneous group of people to summon.

INTP, I'd say. I relate to most things mentioned.

I summoned about ten long time TC members because I was interested in what they had to say, and jump start some guidance in terms of finally figuring out my type. In other words, I needed some veteran insight. Heh.

Ugh, and I also wanna kill one thing in this thread I'm seeing right now which is SO FUCKING UTRUE: Fi is NOT ABOUT MORALS. Not. about. morals. It's a feeling evaluation of good and bad. What feels good for me. Lenore Thomson's description of Fi is fantastic even though I'd argue it constains a slight NF bias:

I wasn't really buying into Fi = morals either, but one day I speculated that Fi users (mainly Fi-dom) tended to create their own morals based on ideals. However, it was just pure speculation, and I was probably wrong anyway.

One more thing, LeaT: you mentioned Lenore Thompson; do you get most of your ideas from that particular author? Also, have you read any books that theorize about cognitive functions, and if so, what would you recommend?

 

[louiesgonnadie]

Addendum, I want to change to: 5w6 so/sx ENFP ENFP-Ne. Anyway, can you answer this questionnaire?

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/109783-yet-another-questionnaire.html

I'll definitely get around to that later. In the meantime, have a look at this questionnaire I posted on PerC, this could do the trick. Then again you mentioned you didn't really like some of the earlier questionnaires so it might not be totally helpful for you, discerning the content of these answers and making an estimate of which functions I may be using.

0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.
Well, I am an 18 year old male. I was diagnosed with ADHD, social anxiety, depression, PTSD, and another disorder that I don't feel like mentioning (I feel insecure about it mainly due to societies approach to it). The past few years I can strongly relate to the loop theory, if it actually reigns true. I am taking Abilify for depression, Stratterra for social anxiety, and Adderall XR for comprehension issues. I took Adderall on and off, especially when I was a little kid (30mg) due to behavioral issues, it amped up my senses very well and radically improved my behavior, especially in terms of maturity and composure.

1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it. http://www.flickr.com/photos/benanet/8583046988/in/explore-2013-03-23 "Fin de fiesta"
I assume it is a bunch of fireworks coming out of a tower of some sort. But it looks like it's some sort of alien spacecraft shooting lazer beams onto the ground, or a really cool neon mega-tarantula. Or it's a lazer shield spiraling downwards to protect crops from harm by selfish humans. I have no idea. My mind is full of fuck.

2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?
I'll just say this: I'm not the biggest fan of concerts (albeit, I've never been to one) since they strike me as a second rate version of a song, plus I feel uneasy in crowds, and have sensitive hearing. But, I'll put myself in this hypothetical situation. I would likely keep my inner calm, and try to discern what is going on, and maybe come up with some possible solutions. Deep down, I'd probably be relieved that I didn't have to be stuck in a crowd for likely an hour and a half with music blasting into my ears.

3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?
I'd think it's fair to let him go. Why not, right? Unless something seemed a little off about him, then I'd second guess his proposal.

4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?
I would probably accept his judgement, but discern it and either pick apart parts of his claim that seemed wrong, or inconsistent, or showcase other sides of my judgement, to try and get the point across. Not aggressively, but fairly. I wouldn't try to sway him, I actually wouldn't really care. If I thought it was foolish, I might laugh, and make a few smartass comments.

5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?
Hmm. Well this sounds similar to #4, so it would probably be a mix of that. Some parts of this question seem rather vague, how necessarily would I experience a situation that would clash with a belief? I have experienced situations that were not ideal, even to the extent of homelessness. I try to hold my own, sometimes I might freak out though, from anxiety or uneasiness, to the point of withdrawing.

6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?
I don't have many values since I am pretty fair-minded, and I don't have much going for me in my life right now, so it's kind of hard to value something. But I would value what my mother has done for me and my sister, she works her ass off to support us! I would value my stamina, something that has gotten me through many bad situations and continue to do so. I would value gaining knowledge, if I had more motivation to do so. I would definitely value a relationship I would be in, and my partner herself.
As far as determining values, I do have to think about why, but it is the positive components of something that turn it into a value.
I guess they could change if more plausible information comes into play, or it loses meaning to me. Hmm.

7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?
Tough question, since no one knows their true personality, they can only judge it subjectively and focus on acting like their judgement. But in terms of what makes me unique, I can only speak for myself, and I cannot truly tell what is unique about me unless I consult the external world (aka asking people). I'll take a guess though. I can be very quiet, introspective, etc. and then make comments out of nowhere, either joking or joining into a discussion pertaining to an interest of mine. I have been told that I am an old soul, very mature compared to other people my age, and also tend to block out emotions when I am talking about...anything (I would agree)
I would change my approach to anxiety. It sometimes forces me to withdraw, overanalyze everything, and even become irrational and closed minded. Hopefully I'll push through it stronger, it seems like I am starting to.

8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?
I don't usually trust them, unless I think about them and throw away irrelevant hunches. They can be triggered by pretty much any type of situation, but mainly things related to me personally.

9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?
I get energized by my interests (mainly doing research on things that I am interested in), daydreaming about myself, and how my life could be. I get energized by the idea of being in love, since that would make me feel like I am worth something. Sometimes I get energized by socializing, if I'm confident; this tells me I am beating social anxiety so that is the cause of energy. Although socializing can drain me sometimes (it depends on my mood, really), and playing video games for a while can also have this affect on me. Other than that, I can't really tell.

10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?

I'm not sure how I would repress my internal thought processing system, but in terms of behavior in the external world, I hold back comments that I don't think would fly. I tend to overthink how I may appear in a certain situation, which breeds fear and fuels my anxiety.


Oh yeah - what makes you lean 5w6 now? ENFP is interesting too! Hmmm.

I don't see you being social last. You ask extensively for others' input and are courteous and socially appropriate. (Not that those who are social last can't be, but it seems like it comes pretty naturally to you.) With my limited understanding of instinctual variants, I would say you're so/sx.

I agree with LeaT on the MBTI assessment, too; definitely Ne-Si, and probably Te. xNFP. I mean, ISFJ would still be a possibility based on that logic, but you seem much more NP than SJ

most likely 5w6, guessing 594 for tritype.

Heheheh.....I appear socially courteous, but the funny thing is in the past, I shyed away from it often. It just seemed weird to me, even saying "Thank you" or "Hello, goodbye, how are you" Etc. Especially when I was a kid! But I took in these rituals and social commonalities via perception and general observation, and realized that I should have some of these attributes if I wanted to hold my own socially in the external world. But yeah, back then.....I was definitely socially awkward, and maybe somewhat...socially retarded, dare I say?

 

[Infinite Bubble]

I'm still going to go with INTP right now. I think you have Fe, albeit not what you're most comfortable with (being anxious socially, or whatever). What you said a couple of posts above mine, about making a graph based on levels of friendship, could actually be Ti since even though graphs and the like are commonly associated with Te, the system you created in itself is purely subjective and not at all related to pre-existing, exterior ones. It also indicated inferior Fe, since someone with high Fe (or high F altogether, for that matter) would most likely have no need for such a creation and deal with it a different way. Like others have mentioned, I too agree with 5w6 for your Enneagram. Your instinct could be So/Sp or Sp/So. Nostalgia is often common with tertiary Si (like Eric B already mentioned), so that too is another indication that at least INxP is correct.

Although regarding your video, using visual identification cues, your eyes actually are steady and do not blink much, which are considered Se/Ni eyes. This contradicts movement of Ne/Si eyes (when Ne predominates), which dart around a lot more, and often have a surprised, wide-eyed look to them.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

What you said a couple of posts above mine, about making a graph based on levels of friendship, could actually be Ti since even though graphs and the like are commonly associated with Te, the system you created in itself is purely subjective and not at all related to pre-existing, exterior ones. It also indicated inferior Fe, since someone with high Fe (or high F altogether, for that matter) would most likely have no need for such a creation and deal with it a different way.

They were influenced by external ways of systemizing, like, I knew how the stocks were categorized, and I thought it was fascinating, so I implemented my imagination into those ways of systemizing.

[/QUOTE]Although regarding your video, using visual identification cues, your eyes actually are steady and do not blink much, which are considered Se/Ni eyes. This contradicts movement of Ne/Si eyes (when Ne predominates), which dart around a lot more, and often have a surprised, wide-eyed look to them.[/QUOTE]

When I am looking at a camera, my focus is making eye contact towards the lens. My eyes are more scattered when I am talking with someone IRL, then again, it depends on my mood and I don't pay a whole lot of attention towards my interaction styles and cues.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

[MENTION=16405]LeaT[/MENTION] Last mention, I promise! But, I did your questionnaire.

1. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.

Well, I am an 18 year old male. I was diagnosed with ADHD, social anxiety, depression, PTSD, and another disorder that I don't feel like mentioning (I feel insecure about it mainly due to societies approach to it). The past few years I can strongly relate to the loop theory, if it actually reigns true. I am taking Abilify for depression, Stratterra for social anxiety, and Adderall XR for comprehension issues. I took Adderall on and off, especially when I was a little kid (30mg) due to behavioral issues, it amped up my senses very well and radically improved my behavior, especially in terms of maturity and composure.

2. Study these two images here and here. Which one do you prefer and why? How would you describe it?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8287/7704380682_4da6df716d.jpg http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6005/6004664548_32c083ea9f_m.jpg
Picture one: Waves lightly crashing against sand. It's either sunset or sunrise, I give the edge to sunset since the stars are peeking. At the left corner of the photo what looks like clouds, though, could be mistaken as a smoke of some sort, and it looks like there's a mountainous landscape of some sort peeking though. Volcano? Is this in Hawaii? Other than that, not much to discern other than waves and the sky reflecting in the water.
Picture two: A lady is breaking apart food, so it's easier to eat, or she just prefers to break it apart. Looks like croissants, or stromboli? I would say croissants just based on the fact that there is a mug of coffee on the table, and who would drink coffee while eating stromboli? Unless it's breakfast stromboli consisting of eggs, sausage and the like, or you're some sort of hipster rebelling against common rituals of schedules pertaining to food.
As far as what photo I prefer? #2 amused me. Hmmm.....#2, probably.

3. Please describe yourself as a person if you were to introduce yourself to someone else like in a cover letter. What kind of person are you and why?

Hmm....it depends on the job, really. I tend to describe myself in ways that feature sarcasm. But you have to be serious if you're describing yourself in a cover letter, like this question mentioned. So...."My name is Louis. I am 18 years old. I have never had a job before, but I have some experience in this field. I can be a very hard worker if I am in the right mindset, and energy varies. I like doing this because.....blah blah, etc. etc." Something like that.
If I were to describe myself ideally (like on a social networking site), it would probably be more like this: "Hi, I'm Louis. I live in a bubble of ponder, with everchanging wind directions. My brain is equipped with an extra-analyzing processing unit (xAPU) where thoughts, ideas, and theories are generated at a rate of 85 Mbps (that's on a slow day). These thoughts, or bits of internal data, circulate around and through the psyche, and during that process of circulation, more data branches out from related data, which can create brainstorms at times. I manifest in mysterious ways, and I am prone to, at times excessively, daydreaming of complex situations and potential future transmutations. My social skill system is flawed, with socially awkward components; how much leverage applied to these components usually depends on the day, analyzing speeds of data flowing through the psyche, types of data being processed, the situation I am applied in, and the overall temperament of the persona. I have a musical fervor; it's in my blood."

4. What kind of person would you LIKE to be? Why? What kind of person would you NOT want to be? Why?

I would like to be smarter, gain more knowledge, things like that. I want to be musical. Philosophical. Insightful. Even tempered. Competent in the external world. I want to be content with my life. I want to be the type of person that people come to for insight/perceptions/advice. Why? Hmm, if I feel like everything I am doing is right (and sometimes this is influenced by the external world) then I am content.
I don't want to be someone who is shallow. Insecure. Immature, both emotionally and intellectually. Impulsive. Incompetent. The list goes on, but as an 18 year old adolescent with insight on how adolescent society is, and common behaviors pertaining to this society, I have a distaste towards it in general, and strive to be different.

5. Do you think there are any differences to how you described yourself and how people actually perceive you? How do you think others would describe you? If there are any discrepancies between these two that are you are aware of; do you know why exactly that is?

I really don't know how people would describe me as a whole. But people have said that I (and most, if not all are of these people are older than me): usually have the best perception on things, honest, overthink things too much. I think if people got to know me well, people my age would find me refreshing compared to the majority of people, appreciate my honesty, and think I am intelligent compared to the majority of adolescent society. Or, they'd be put off by my weirdness and at times awkwardness, for reasons that I can't really specify, since it is purely hypothetical.
What isn't consistent between external world and internal self observations; I am quiet, and this leads me to be understood. A year ago (when I was very loopy by MBTI terms, I suspect) I was very rigid and closed minded in my views, strongly fueled by anxiety and doubt. This led people to brush things I said off. Other than that, some people may think I am stupid, due to my aloofness. People that know me very well have pegged me as intelligent, however, so going by this, there's a discrepancy.

6. What in life do you find to be of importance? Why? If you are unsure you can always take the Value Test and post the results here. Do note that it helps if you narrow it down to 20 or ideally 10 values as suggested at stage 2.

It depends on what kind of person you are. If intellectual pursuits are your lot (like Einstein, Carl Jung, etc.) then what is important is coming up with groundbreaking objective subjective standards of philosophy, science, whatever. If more artistic pursuits are more your style, then go revel in those fields! I'm not sure because being the young person I am, I'm staring the elements of life in the face and discerning them piece by piece, figuring out what is suited for me, what is cool, etc. But music is something that is really important to me. It's a trip filled with sounds that, if composed really well, tend to replicate emotions, thoughts, and internal sensation, topped with lyrics analyzing the purpose of it all, crafted into a fascinating composure that really can't be described in words, you have to get a feel for it. The world without music...I can't imagine what it would be like, but one of the magic elements of life would have lost it's pepper, certainly.

7. How do you react to new situations in your life? Can you describe an event in your life where you were in an unknown situation? How did you deal with it?

I can be anxious, and need to let it synthesize and settle in before I can adapt to it. I need to think about it and make sense of it all, basically. The last really unknown situation I was in was when I found out my family was going to be homeless. I don't remember what my state of mind was (I was 12, BTW) but I cried hysterically when I found out, and had to let it sink in in order to accept it. Acceptance came from talking with my mom about it and how she tried to help me think positively, if I can recall.

8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.

I withdraw, and analyze everything related to it or associated with it, until I feel like I have figured things out, or I feel better. I can be pretty reclusive. Stubborn, even. Anxious. Eerily silent. I try to bottle up my emotions but when I am really in a state of internal discomfort, madness, and confusion; I may explode. This manifests at home, since my SA kicks in in public so I hold a much tighter reign on it, however manifestation may peek through in terms of how I may say things or facial expressions, posture, and overall nature.
A year ago I was in a period like this. I was very close minded, and thought people were against me. I was even deluded, to an extent.

9. Please describe yourself when you are in an enjoyable situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.

Depends on what kind of situation, and what "enjoyable" really is, but my sarcasm can peek through, and I can make fun of well....anything. If I'm really comfortable I can be a little jovial, strange, and silly in my behavior. I try to be pleasing, and if it is an intellectual situation pertaining to an interest - I'll definitely speak my mind, showcase my beliefs, and get involved.

10. Describe your relationship to socialization. How do you perceive one-on-one interaction? How do you perceive group interaction?

I prefer one-on-one since it has the idea of "depth in relationships over breadth", but group interaction (mainly with peers I know well) can be fun when I'm in extroverted, sarcastic-humorous-observant-smartass mode. That doesn't mean I'm always in humor-mode; I can be courteous socially in groups.

11. Describe your relationship to society. What are the elements of it you hold important or unimportant (e.g. social norms, values, customs, traditions)? How do you see people as a whole?

I feel somewhat disconnected from the external world. I certainly don't fit into the social norms and statuses of typical adolescent society - what's popular, etc, and with reason, it doesn't resonate with me and I prefer it not to. However, some people seem to admire me, since I don't always brush people off - and they seem to enjoy my sense of humor and observations in general.
What I find important....I'm not sure. I try to be courteous, and some elements I agree with, but some I don't - like how it's cool to give someone a gift on Valentine's Day (which I find silly - every day should be Valentine's Day to an extent, and varying from couple to couple) but it's weird to do so on a regular day. Or "goodmorning" texts. Bleh. It all seems.....overemphasized.
People vary person to person; some are in generally good states, some the opposite, some dull, some fascinating, etc. But in general, I think society has a tendency to overemphasize certain things, and people try to take control in many situations and try to force "power", which only creates more stress. We also tend to focus on hyberbole when describing things, or we are too impulsive; we don't spend the time to think before acting. We sometimes have a tendency to use, abuse, and do things for our own benefit. People are getting lazier due to electronic devices, which breeds distraction from thought, and thought ---> ideas, ideas ---> creation. This is also breeding ignorance since laziness is seemingly increasing.

12. Describe your relationship to authority. How do you perceive authority? What does it mean to you, and how do you deal with it?

It depends. Sometimes it is needed, but in any case, it can be overemphasized. Authority that takes a more rigid stance can be annoying. It doesn't really mean anything to me, and I keep an even temper when dealing with it. I may try to work my way around it if I feel like it doesn't resonate with a situation.

13. Describe your relationship to order and chaos. What do order and chaos mean to you? How do they manifest in your daily life?

Hmm....not totally understanding of this question. But order doesn't really mean anything to me, and chaos?

14. What is it that you fear in life? Why? How does this fear manifest to you both in how you think and how you act?

Being alone for the rest of my life. Not being competent enough, especially by society's standards (even though the latter is slowly diminishing the more I perceive that societies standards can be silly). Losing friends, sometimes. This creates more anxiety, and I will overthink (of course) what fear and anxiety bring to the table of contemplation.

15. What is it that you desire in life? What do you strive to achieve? Why? Where do you think these drives and desires stem from or are inspired by?

I desire a happy, successful marriage, with intimate components. To raise a family. Have a decent career that I enjoy. To achieve content states in terms of happiness, intelligence, skills. Achieving abilities pertaining to hobbies and interests. All because self worth and achievements pertaining to world rituals are the key to living a content life. I'm not sure where these stem from; however, I have done a shit ton of reflecting over the past few years (and continue to do so in fact) and have been trying to figure myself out and where my life is headed, and what resonates well with me and my abilities. So that's given me more insight in terms of what I should do. Though, I'm not quite sure yet...

16. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?

I get energized by my interests (mainly doing research on things that I am interested in), daydreaming about myself, and how my life could be. I get energized by the idea of being in love, since that would make me feel like I am worth something. Sometimes I get energized by socializing, if I'm confident; this tells me I am beating social anxiety so that is the cause of energy. Although socializing can drain me sometimes (it depends on my mood, really), and playing video games for a while can also have this affect on me. Other than that, I can't really tell.

17. Why do you want to know your type? What type do you think you are? Why this/these type(s)? Is there a type that appeals to you, to your self-perception, that you would like to be? Why? If you know your enneagram, please post this here. If you have done any online function tests such as the Keys2Cognition, it helps if you post these results here as well.

I just want to understand myself better, and how I process things. I think it may also help me be more self aware of my true abilities, leading me to fields that suit me best. I think I'm an INxP, based off of all of the research I have done over the past few months, and also external estimates from people on Typology Central, Personality Cafe, and other sites. Off chance of ISxP and INxJ. I'm pretty sure I'm type 5 based off of what I know, I lean towards the 4 wing though, since I feel like I have an emotional component in me that can sometimes come out musically, in writing, or even artistically. It can leak through in a cynical flavor when I am bitter or depressed.

K2C:

Cognitive ProcessLevel of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) ********************* (21.5)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) *************************** (27.7)
average use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ****************************** (30.5)
good use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************************** (38.6)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ************************** (26.5)
average use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************************ (36.6)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ***************************** (29.8)
average use
introverted Feeling (Fi) **************************** (28.4)
average use

Summary Analysis of Profile
By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INFJ

Lead (Dominant) Process
Introverted Intuiting (Ni): Transforming with a meta-perspective. Withdrawing from the world and focusing your mind to receive an insight or realization. Checking if synergy results. Trying out a realization to transform things.

Support (Auxilliary) Process
Extraverted Feeling (Fe): Building trust through giving relationships. Empathically responding to others' needs and take on their needs and values as your own. Checking for respect and trust. Giving and receiving support to grow closer to people.

If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: ENFJ, or INTP

(those were my most recent results, I took this test about 3 or 4 other times and usually tested IxTP)

 

[Entropic]

@louisgonnadie, I think ENFP and you are definitely soc first and I still fail to see a 4 wing (I will answer this questionnaire too just to really show you the contrast between a judging dominant 5w4 type). Your thinking is too focused on seeking security rather than self-expression in my opinion. So ENFP, IEE-Ne 5w6 so/sx. ENTP and ILE-Ne are still possible also (your aux isn't really discernable). Here are my reasons why I think Ne dominant as you clearly fail to exhibit any obvious judging function with either attitude in the questionnaire you answered (also, ILE is casual-deterministic):

Picture one: Waves lightly crashing against sand. It's either sunset or sunrise, I give the edge to sunset since the stars are peeking. At the left corner of the photo what looks like clouds, though, could be mistaken as a smoke of some sort, and it looks like there's a mountainous landscape of some sort peeking though. Volcano? Is this in Hawaii? Other than that, not much to discern other than waves and the sky reflecting in the water.
Picture two: A lady is breaking apart food, so it's easier to eat, or she just prefers to break it apart. Looks like croissants, or stromboli? I would say croissants just based on the fact that there is a mug of coffee on the table, and who would drink coffee while eating stromboli? Unless it's breakfast stromboli consisting of eggs, sausage and the like, or you're some sort of hipster rebelling against common rituals of schedules pertaining to food.
As far as what photo I prefer? #2 amused me. Hmmm.....#2, probably.

In both these pictures you are more likely to describe the details of the picture, and both of them ending up with you coming up with possibilities of what the picture could be. You're not necessarily looking for meaning in the picture that would point towards an Ni preference (let alone that your description of Ne was really Ni before, speaking for that you don't really understand or have a natural preference towards Ni regardless of what Nardi's result gave you).

Nardi's test result also clearly reject sensation.

Hmm....it depends on the job, really. I tend to describe myself in ways that feature sarcasm. But you have to be serious if you're describing yourself in a cover letter, like this question mentioned. So...."My name is Louis. I am 18 years old. I have never had a job before, but I have some experience in this field. I can be a very hard worker if I am in the right mindset, and energy varies. I like doing this because.....blah blah, etc. etc." Something like that.
If I were to describe myself ideally (like on a social networking site), it would probably be more like this: "Hi, I'm Louis. I live in a bubble of ponder, with everchanging wind directions. My brain is equipped with an extra-analyzing processing unit (xAPU) where thoughts, ideas, and theories are generated at a rate of 85 Mbps (that's on a slow day). These thoughts, or bits of internal data, circulate around and through the psyche, and during that process of circulation, more data branches out from related data, which can create brainstorms at times. I manifest in mysterious ways, and I am prone to, at times excessively, daydreaming of complex situations and potential future transmutations. My social skill system is flawed, with socially awkward components; how much leverage applied to these components usually depends on the day, analyzing speeds of data flowing through the psyche, types of data being processed, the situation I am applied in, and the overall temperament of the persona. I have a musical fervor; it's in my blood."

This example shows Ne again as well, because most people don't even know how to answer this question, let alone also add another perspective to this question. You clearly have no problem imagining yourself possibly doing something. Other than that, the portion in bold is strikingly 5-ish. This is what people confuse for Ti dominance but it's not. This is just how 5s operate in terms of thinking. I've done this as well in a short story that I wrote:

You suffer from depression, he said. You need to deal with your experiences, work with them. Your insomnia is just a defense mechanism. Oh yes, he's completely right that it's a defense mechanism. What else would it be?

I admit that the way the human psyche deals with anxiety is fascinating. When stressed, humans invent various coping methods that impose more pain over time but provide us with temporary relief by avoiding the object associated with the anxiety. So while the person suffering from OCD might wash her hands more than what's healthy, I can't sleep.

Again however, this is not necessarily Ti, it's just 5 think.

I would like to be smarter, gain more knowledge, things like that. I want to be musical. Philosophical. Insightful. Even tempered. Competent in the external world. I want to be content with my life. I want to be the type of person that people come to for insight/perceptions/advice. Why? Hmm, if I feel like everything I am doing is right (and sometimes this is influenced by the external world) then I am content.
I don't want to be someone who is shallow. Insecure. Immature, both emotionally and intellectually. Impulsive. Incompetent. The list goes on, but as an 18 year old adolescent with insight on how adolescent society is, and common behaviors pertaining to this society, I have a distaste towards it in general, and strive to be different.

The latter portion of this question reeks of unhealthy soc instinct.

I really don't know how people would describe me as a whole. But people have said that I (and most, if not all are of these people are older than me): usually have the best perception on things, honest, overthink things too much. I think if people got to know me well, people my age would find me refreshing compared to the majority of people, appreciate my honesty, and think I am intelligent compared to the majority of adolescent society. Or, they'd be put off by my weirdness and at times awkwardness, for reasons that I can't really specify, since it is purely hypothetical.
What isn't consistent between external world and internal self observations; I am quiet, and this leads me to be understood. A year ago (when I was very loopy by MBTI terms, I suspect) I was very rigid and closed minded in my views, strongly fueled by anxiety and doubt. This led people to brush things I said off. Other than that, some people may think I am stupid, due to my aloofness. People that know me very well have pegged me as intelligent, however, so going by this, there's a discrepancy.

This one here suggests Ne dominance because again, all you really provide here is an Ne perspective. You keep looking for possibilities. It's also very a very soc oriented answer because you are actually quite aware of how others perceive you and you are doing this comparison quite easily and naturally. You keep describing yourself in relation to society in many of the questions that actually don't need such an answer or perspective which really indicates that the social instinct is really important to you and thus you are so first.

Also, being close-minded and such is just unhealthy 5 think. I was too. Militant atheist, for example.

It depends on what kind of person you are. If intellectual pursuits are your lot (like Einstein, Carl Jung, etc.) then what is important is coming up with groundbreaking objective subjective standards of philosophy, science, whatever. If more artistic pursuits are more your style, then go revel in those fields! I'm not sure because being the young person I am, I'm staring the elements of life in the face and discerning them piece by piece, figuring out what is suited for me, what is cool, etc. But music is something that is really important to me. It's a trip filled with sounds that, if composed really well, tend to replicate emotions, thoughts, and internal sensation, topped with lyrics analyzing the purpose of it all, crafted into a fascinating composure that really can't be described in words, you have to get a feel for it. The world without music...I can't imagine what it would be like, but one of the magic elements of life would have lost it's pepper, certainly.

A very 5-ish answer but with Ne tint, most definitely. It is important to note how you actually describe music here which you which appears to be a thinking function. Could be Te (could see an argument for Ne-Te preference as your top two), because the latter part, "gettling a feel for it", that reeks of Fi. Also indicates a slight sx preference as you are talking about a passion.

I can be anxious, and need to let it synthesize and settle in before I can adapt to it. I need to think about it and make sense of it all, basically. The last really unknown situation I was in was when I found out my family was going to be homeless. I don't remember what my state of mind was (I was 12, BTW) but I cried hysterically when I found out, and had to let it sink in in order to accept it. Acceptance came from talking with my mom about it and how she tried to help me think positively, if I can recall.

I know that you have a lot of mental health problems but your anxiety is peculiar even for a 5, and this is one of the reasons why I opine 6 wing as opposed to 4 wing. Being interested in the arts isn't enough to justify 4-wing. Any person can enjoy the arts or be artistic without having an ounce of 4 influence in them. [MENTION=15372]Flatlander[/MENTION] is for example a 592 and he's writing on a story. I actually think there's a great possibility you two share tritype. I really fail to see the 4 anywhere. (Contrast later to my response. People often mistake me for a 4 because my 4 wing and fixation is really strong).

Also that you bring up being homeless as an example here is quite a 6-like worry I think, out of a lot of I assume, examples you could provide. This is also the only answer that could point towards some kind sp think.

I withdraw, and analyze everything related to it or associated with it, until I feel like I have figured things out, or I feel better. I can be pretty reclusive. Stubborn, even. Anxious. Eerily silent. I try to bottle up my emotions but when I am really in a state of internal discomfort, madness, and confusion; I may explode. This manifests at home, since my SA kicks in in public so I hold a much tighter reign on it, however manifestation may peek through in terms of how I may say things or facial expressions, posture, and overall nature.
A year ago I was in a period like this. I was very close minded, and thought people were against me. I was even deluded, to an extent.

Just signs of schizoid personality disorder here (Naranjo links it to type 5).

Depends on what kind of situation, and what "enjoyable" really is, but my sarcasm can peek through, and I can make fun of well....anything. If I'm really comfortable I can be a little jovial, strange, and silly in my behavior. I try to be pleasing, and if it is an intellectual situation pertaining to an interest - I'll definitely speak my mind, showcase my beliefs, and get involved.

Ne in a socionics sense in particular (jovial, goofy humor and so on) and soc. You want to be involved in groups.

I prefer one-on-one since it has the idea of "depth in relationships over breadth", but group interaction (mainly with peers I know well) can be fun when I'm in extroverted, sarcastic-humorous-observant-smartass mode. That doesn't mean I'm always in humor-mode; I can be courteous socially in groups.

The first portion speaks a bit more towards sx (but I think even soc types seek "depth", just that to them, depth is different than it is for an sx type) but most of the juice in this response is still focused on soc. You like being in groups and you seek out groups.

it not to. However, some people seem to admire me, since I don't always brush people off - and they seem to enjoy my sense of humor and observations in general.
What I find important....I'm not sure. I try to be courteous, and some elements I agree with, but some I don't - like how it's cool to give someone a gift on Valentine's Day (which I find silly - every day should be Valentine's Day to an extent, and varying from couple to couple) but it's weird to do so on a regular day. Or "goodmorning" texts. Bleh. It all seems.....overemphasized.
People vary person to person; some are in generally good states, some the opposite, some dull, some fascinating, etc. But in general, I think society has a tendency to overemphasize certain things, and people try to take control in many situations and try to force "power", which only creates more stress. We also tend to focus on hyberbole when describing things, or we are too impulsive; we don't spend the time to think before acting. We sometimes have a tendency to use, abuse, and do things for our own benefit. People are getting lazier due to electronic devices, which breeds distraction from thought, and thought ---> ideas, ideas ---> creation. This is also breeding ignorance since laziness is seemingly increasing.

This answer here is very Ne with Fi and Te. When you complain about social values it's Fi-tinted. Most of all though, it's soc, soc and more soc. You definitely fall on the anti-soc spectrum.

Being alone for the rest of my life. Not being competent enough, especially by society's standards (even though the latter is slowly diminishing the more I perceive that societies standards can be silly). Losing friends, sometimes. This creates more anxiety, and I will overthink (of course) what fear and anxiety bring to the table of contemplation.

More soc. Afraid of being alone, afraid of losing friends.

I desire a happy, successful marriage, with intimate components. To raise a family. Have a decent career that I enjoy. To achieve content states in terms of happiness, intelligence, skills. Achieving abilities pertaining to hobbies and interests. All because self worth and achievements pertaining to world rituals are the key to living a content life. I'm not sure where these stem from; however, I have done a shit ton of reflecting over the past few years (and continue to do so in fact) and have been trying to figure myself out and where my life is headed, and what resonates well with me and my abilities. So that's given me more insight in terms of what I should do. Though, I'm not quite sure yet...

Your answer is very soc with a bit sp. To be married and raise a family is so/sp-ish. Also, the latter portion is so 6-like, finding your place in the world kind of deal. Where you belong, who you can trust.

I get energized by my interests (mainly doing research on things that I am interested in), daydreaming about myself, and how my life could be. I get energized by the idea of being in love, since that would make me feel like I am worth something. Sometimes I get energized by socializing, if I'm confident; this tells me I am beating social anxiety so that is the cause of energy. Although socializing can drain me sometimes (it depends on my mood, really), and playing video games for a while can also have this affect on me. Other than that, I can't really tell.

Ne and soc and some sx. Mostly Ne and soc though.

I just want to understand myself better, and how I process things. I think it may also help me be more self aware of my true abilities, leading me to fields that suit me best. I think I'm an INxP, based off of all of the research I have done over the past few months, and also external estimates from people on Typology Central, Personality Cafe, and other sites. Off chance of ISxP and INxJ. I'm pretty sure I'm type 5 based off of what I know, I lean towards the 4 wing though, since I feel like I have an emotional component in me that can sometimes come out musically, in writing, or even artistically. It can leak through in a cynical flavor when I am bitter or depressed.

More of a 5w6 answer. You don't seek an identity, you seek to understand a process, and there's even a possibility for 3 fix here because you are willing to adapt yourself accordingly in order to seek competence. Maybe 593 then. Could also be a connection from a 6 wing to 3.

Being emotional isn't what makes 5w4 necessarily although yes, 5w4 can be moody. Being artistic has nothing to do with 5w4 as well although 5w4s tend to be artistic. The problem is that you are very willing to adapt and shape your identity and conform to those around you, especially to appear as competent. Not only does this speak for a 3 fix, it also speaks for soc first. Soc first types are more likely to adapt themselves to the group in order to not disrupt the group. Me? I'm sx/sp and a 5w4 and I walk to the beat of my own drum. A 6 wing also gives a certain social grace a 4 wing lacks because the 4 wing makes you more preoccupied with yourself. A 6 wing influence makes you more likely to seek out a sense of belonging and security from a group, a community or authority figure. I very much see you doing this.

Also, let alone the blatant name dropping was very soc. I don't even know who half of these people are nor could I in fact care less.

 

[Entropic]

First of all, I summoned you into this thread because when I read your post on my other thread, "Need help with my varient", you struck me as someone who is very knowledgeable about MBTI, and it looks like it indeed showed in your analysis of my OP. Fascinating analysis, actually! Thank you! Some things:

So soc of you to notice these things. Very shaman-like. You take note of "interesting people" with "interesting knowledge" or "interesting skills".

/I chose SP first because of my desire to grow as a better person, by gaining knowledge, creating hobbies for myself, getting my life together, etc. However, I thought that all correlates to being at least sp second. However, this desire for growth is fueled by feelings of worthlessness, emptiness, and other personal things, so maybe this correlates to sx or something else beyond variants, I don't know.

Nope. Nothing of this is sp. Sp stands for self-preservation and its primary focus is the security of the self. Sp types are concerns about health, shelter and food because if you are sick there's a risk that you'll die, if you have no roof on top of your head there's a risk you'll die and if you have no food there's a risk you'll die. Sp types seek comfort and security in order to sustain ourselves. An example of sp is that I can over-eat when I'm hungry because as sx first I tend to reject or ignore my hunger feelings until the last minute. However, an sp last type would not over-eat as opposed to I. That sp is second makes me indulge in my instinct once I actually fulfill it.

//My desire to fit in with groups is correct, but it's more along the lines of groups of people that I admire and have similar interests, passions, and desires of mine.

Yes, that you mention admiration as the first thing that pops into your mind is soc. This is very soc 5 think. The rest points a bit more towards sx when you mention passions and desires that's more related to sx than soc. So so/sx.

Lately, my beliefs have been resonating with the saying "I'd rather be alone then befriend people that I don't find interesting", although this isn't always my lot, when I am forced into social situations involving people that I am not too fond of, I will be polite and join in socially, but only for so long. I was thinking about inferior Fe, and the aspect of wanting to fit in with popular groups and such really resonated with me in the past, mainly because I didn't have a lot of insight into human (adolescent) society. Now that I have more insight, I have weeded out what is irrelevant towards my character, interests, or whatever, and focus on befriending people that I have things in common with, or admire. Correlation to --> Fi, sx or other?

This is not inferior Fe, this is the soc instinct. That you have a desire to fit in is soc. An Fe type doesn't necessarily feel the need to fit in. Fe is about extraverted feeling jugdement so what they do is to for example measure what's socially appropriate by taking in feeling values from the outside. I let an actual Fe types ( [MENTION=17911]Maybe[/MENTION] @flatliner perhaps?) explain this better because I'm largely oblivious to how Fe truly operates as a judging evaluation. I only understand Fi since this is my dominant preference.

///I was taking a walk and reflecting, and it hit me that Si (perhaps tertiary?) might really resonate with me. I was thinking about living in the moment, and it turns out....more than 90% of the time, I think I really don't! Instead I tend to create internal environments based off of external stimuli I am taking in, and they turn into impressions that strongly relate to past impressions of situations, or pure situations that I experienced, consisting of states of mind, feelings, etc. basically something really abstract. In other words, the closest I get to living in the moment is actually living in one of my internal environments that coexist with the external world. In other words, if I am at a concert and I see bright vivid red lights, and there's a certain song with a downtempo-style, I will think of how it reminds me of that one time when I was a kid and I was in the closet, and I had one of those crystal balls and it was giving me the impression that something mysterious and mystical was occurring, or a video game I played that featured a hell-esque environment where demons appeared from lava, or some shit, therefore combination of music + red lights = living in a mystical environment, that I cannot really put into words, you just probably have to be Si (or Ne-Si) to fully understand. I was also wondering if Se-Ni did this, since Ni (being a Pi function) seems to create abstract impressions of external stimuli as well? Other than that, I'd definitely say I relate to Si, which would mean I also have primary Ne.

Your Ne-Si axis is really strong so yes, it just suggests Ne dominance really in my opinion. The auxiliary and tertiary functions can barely be discerned. You just give us Ne and more Ne with some occasional Si. Also, the fact that you describe your Si so vividly could very well put it in an inferior position as you seem to approach it in more black and white terms.

By the way, I'm Si tertiary and I'm pretty much the anti-thesis of being nostalgic. I hate nostalgia (I also reject Si hardcore out of my psyche even though I unconsciously fall back on it a lot because my Ne is very strong). So citing nostalgia as an example of tertiary Si isn't true here and doesn't say anything. It's more relevant to know how it truly operates for you.

So question: how do you react if you suddenly find weird red spots on your body you never noticed before?

////I used to sometimes to create bars, and graphs, and charts pertaining to things I was interested in, or ideas, or even things that were occurring in my imagination (fuck, when I was 15 I was so paranoid I created a system (mainly in my head, but I got bored one day so I created a bar graph on a microsoft office application)based off of numbers, pertaining to self-estimates of what people thought of me, in other words, approval of my peers, highest to lowest. Example: Person A: 8.62 (High approval, good friend) Person B: 3.29 (Decent approval, friendly aqquaintance) Person C: 0.98 (Moderate approval, aqquainted, friendly) Person D: -3.63 (Low approval, unfriendly aqquaintance, enemy) Or whatever.)

I still think this is an example of you tapping into Te as I think Te is more focused on qualitative data than quantitative.

So, if the Si actually resonates with me, then I am definitely leaning INxP at the moment. I was considering ISTP since some people considered it for me on PerC and Se was convincing for me in my Aux in some ways, plus the whole Ne thing seemed a little off for me, but the more I think about it, I do spawn abstract impressions of my environment.

lol no, socially introverted perhaps but cognitively? Nope. Can't see it. You just spit out Ne like in almost every answer you provide. So it makes you an ENxP. No offense to other typers here in this thread but to be quite blunt and crass, you get too blinded by the OP's persona and this is exactly what I was talking about in the MBTI vs socionics thread with Eric B. The type 5 is automatically going to look INTx because it's stereotypically similar in terms of behavior. However, once you look beyond the surface level of the persona the OP is depicting that's arguably also very 3-like in its projection, there really isn't much Ti dominant judgement to speak of, nor do I see any genuine signs of inferior Fe. There is however a lot of Ne going on, which in fact suggests it's probably the OP's dominant function.

I summoned about ten long time TC members because I was interested in what they had to say, and jump start some guidance in terms of finally figuring out my type. In other words, I needed some veteran insight. Heh.

Yeah, soc instinct.

I wasn't really buying into Fi = morals either, but one day I speculated that Fi users (mainly Fi-dom) tended to create their own morals based on ideals. However, it was just pure speculation, and I was probably wrong anyway.

One more thing, LeaT: you mentioned Lenore Thompson; do you get most of your ideas from that particular author? Also, have you read any books that theorize about cognitive functions, and if so, what would you recommend?

I'll give you a secret (hah, so sx of me): I haven't read any official book on any kind of type theory except enneagram so I can't recommend anything to you. I have however read lots of excerpts and generally speaking I think one shouldn't get too hung up on books but try to formulate your own opinion (see, that's my 4 wing at work). It's not impossible to gain a lot of expertise by simply reading, contrasting and comparing a large bulk of information over time and still achieve great accuracy without ever truly accessing official sources.

 

[Entropic]

Right, so here are my questionnaire answers with my personal self-analysis of the answers:

1. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.
Nope. Hungry maybe. Also listening to Swallow the Sun, fuck yeah.

Actually denotes sp and sx.

2. Study these two images here and here. Which one do you prefer and why? How would you describe it?
I always liked the former picture because of its dream-esque atmosphere and how it invokes a sense and feelings of hope of a distant future. That I, as a human being, am here but this is just the beginning and there's so much more to discover out there. We as humans are limited and confined to this existence but there's still so much left to explore. (Fuck, I know I didn't even explain what's in the picture but whatever... it's boring to just say it's an aurora borrealis at a beach site.)

I think this answer is very Fi because I describe a feeling.

I was never fond of the image with the woman eating a croissant, part because you can't see her face I guess. It kind of annoys me. I like the color contrasts and the use of a septia tone but there is something obviously lacking in the image that would make it better. It feels very void and not so meaningful to look at it. Also it reminds me that I'm hungry.

Te and Fi. Sp.

3. Please describe yourself as a person if you were to introduce yourself to someone else like in a cover letter. What kind of person are you and why?
Intelligent, quirky, different, artistic, prone to moods and drama. I'm just me in my own special LeaT flavor. I'm also good at what I'm doing once I decide I'll do something and I'll rarely settle for less in these situations. Also a cat owner and I lurv ma kittenz. Other than that, a big music addict and metal is the music of my soul for most of the part.

So undeniably 4-ish with sx.

4. What kind of person would you LIKE to be? Why? What kind of person would you NOT want to be? Why?
Hm, I kind of like being me with all my flaws and quirks. It's hard to come up with something I really want to improve on besides maybe being less procrastinating, lazy and I could use some help with someone kicking me in the ass and help me structure things and get things going. I have too much of a tendency to put things off. Also, less of a slob and a mess.

Stupid. Ignorant, bigoted, hypocritical.

Te seeking.

5. Do you think there are any differences to how you described yourself and how people actually perceive you? How do you think others would describe you? If there are any discrepancies between these two that are you are aware of; do you know why exactly that is?
I think IRL people can think I'm more friendly and warm than I am? I also think I can come off as a bit too cold on the internet, I don't know. I admittedly lack quite some self-awareness of how others actually see me except when they tell me but then it's usually too late XD Which is why I'm often called arrogant, insensitive and so on. I don't think I'm genuinely arrogant though, it's just that I got standards and people aren't used to be expected to meet them.

4-ish, soc last.

6. What in life do you find to be of importance? Why? If you are unsure you can always take the Value Test and post the results here. Do note that it helps if you narrow it down to 20 or ideally 10 values as suggested at stage 2.
Freedom, intelligence, authenticity, truth, wisdom, power, acceptance, honesty, trust. I think they're pretty explanatory for most of the part. By freedom I mean freedom of the mind, the freedom to think and do what I want, to be accepted for who I am what what I am without judgement.

Kind of very sx 5.

7. How do you react to new situations in your life? Can you describe an event in your life where you were in an unknown situation? How did you deal with it?
Hm, I think the latest situation I can think of was when I moved to my current apartment about a year ago. What I did was that I prepared and scanned the area to ensure it's safe and that I can satisfy my needs there so there are good connections and so on. It kind of exceeded my expectations since I got a pharmacy, a grocery store, dentist practice and healthcare center less than 5 minutes away! And the area is nice and open. People are friendly with good tram connections to the city center.

Very very sp.

8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.
Ugh, I hate stress. Feels like my mind is rushing, I can't focus and it's like I must constantly be moving or be doing something. I may also experience chest pain for some reason. There's a feeling of mentally chasing my tail and I feel very disconnected from my body like the real me is floating around in space somewhere else.

Disintegration towards 7.

9. Please describe yourself when you are in an enjoyable situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.
Talking to good friends or doing something I think is fun. I can talk about myself and my interests and do so freely without feeling strange or that I'm judged which is usually the case because I feel that my interests tend to be on the borderline side of what's acceptable or what other people find normal and that's kind of frustrating. I don't like the feeling of being misunderstood.

Sx 5, soc blind spot kind of inferred to, strong 4 influence towards the end.

10. Describe your relationship to socialization. How do you perceive one-on-one interaction? How do you perceive group interaction?
I definitely prefer one-on-one or really small groups where I'm good friends with every member of the group. Maximum of 3-4 or so really. If it's more I tend to take more of an observer mode. Most of all I don't get "groups". Even when I am in a group I tend to gravitate towards speaking to those people I enjoy talking to and I know share interests with me. Otherwise I just feel very awkward and I rather sit and listen.

Admittedly I answered this question part to show you how my soc last instinct appears as. Anyway, very delta (small group preference), sx interaction is favored.

11. Describe your relationship to society. What are the elements of it you hold important or unimportant (e.g. social norms, values, customs, traditions)? How do you see people as a whole?
Haha, I can't remember what I was thinking when I made this question except that I wanted to create a question that exemplified people's thinking patterns in some way or another. It's a good question when it comes to revealing soc first types though. Generally speaking I guess I don't care so much about society as a whole though more than when it starts concerning me personally like during election times. I always tend to see myself as an outsider, a lone wolf, and I kind of prefer it that way. I choose my own path to walk and I couldn't care less about others.

Not very soc like. I think last time I answered my own questionnaire the answer was different but I can't remember what I wrote.

As for people, I'm constantly torn between being baffled by people's stupidity and wanting to believe in human potential. I keep wanting to think there's a hope and chance for improvement but then I realize that most people are probably comfortable as they are right now so I just fall back on my cynical self and I feel like "fuck people". When I was younger and very angry I was of the belief that we should all be atom bombed to death because it was what I thought back then, the best solution. Complete extermination and wipe-out of the human species. At least it solved the problem of over-population!

Still very soc last I guess.

12. Describe your relationship to authority. How do you perceive authority? What does it mean to you, and how do you deal with it?
Fuck authority. Breaking rules or follow rules largely depends on whether it benefits me or not. Most of all though, when it comes to authority especially in the intellectual arena I couldn't care less about your title. Your title means jack if your thinking is stupid. Stupid thinking is stupid thinking regardless of your social status.

Kind of soc hate.

13. Describe your relationship to order and chaos. What do order and chaos mean to you? How do they manifest in your daily life?
Order is chaos unfortunately. I tend to live in a constant state of materialistic entropy. If I could hire a personal butler to cook and clean for me daily I would without a question.

Te seeking.

14. What is it that you fear in life? Why? How does this fear manifest to you both in how you think and how you act?
The fear of not knowing I guess, since this question is supposed to be enneagram-related. The fear of not knowing myself and who I am. The fear that I'll lose control of my mind. I'm also very afraid of losing my cats.

Very 5w4, 5 and sx-ish.

15. What is it that you desire in life? What do you strive to achieve? Why? Where do you think these drives and desires stem from or are inspired by?
Freedom of mind and space. To do something I enjoy doing and get by on that e.g. some kind of anthropology-related work with a decent salary. I don't need to be rich. Heck, I can't say I even desire it although money is of course always nice. I would also like to find a romantic partner and have a relationship that actually lasts.

The former is of course enneagram-related, the rest just kind of sx/sp.

Self-analysis of self-analysis. Regurgitation.

16. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?
Doing what I enjoy doing, following my passions and my heart. Examples can be just watching a good movie, coming up with great ideas, feeling like I'm the top of the world especially if I felt that I exceeded my own expectations in doing something like winning a difficult video game match or something .

Sx-ish.

Having my space intruded upon, constant interruptions. Having to deal with people who question me and my person constantly, try to undermine me in some way or just feeling misunderstood. Also being outside my apartment for extended periods of time with lots and lots of stimulation going on. It can give rise to panic attacks. Just thinking of doing things in general that needs to be done feels kind of draining even though I know this is just avarice think.

4-ish.

17. Why do you want to know your type? What type do you think you are? Why this/these type(s)? Is there a type that appeals to you, to your self-perception, that you would like to be? Why? If you know your enneagram, please post this here. If you have done any online function tests such as the Keys2Cognition, it helps if you post these results here as well.
I don't. This is just an example to highlight the differences.

I'm an MBTI INTP, socionics EII-Ne/Jungian INFP 5w4 4w5 8w7 sx/sp type.

The end.

 

[mintleaf]

Heheheh.....I appear socially courteous, but the funny thing is in the past, I shyed away from it often. It just seemed weird to me, even saying "Thank you" or "Hello, goodbye, how are you" Etc. Especially when I was a kid! But I took in these rituals and social commonalities via perception and general observation, and realized that I should have some of these attributes if I wanted to hold my own socially in the external world. But yeah, back then.....I was definitely socially awkward, and maybe somewhat...socially retarded, dare I say?

I'm social-first, but I was pretty much the same in the past. Even though I was perceptive in regard to social commonalities, I thought they were strange and didn't adhere to them much until maybe my pre-teen years. (I was kind of precocious and always thought the way most adults talked down to people my age was odd, and for years thought that they were socially retarded.) Even now I forget them sometimes. I probably shouldn't have given courteousness as a reason as to why you may be social first. It doesn't have as much to do with your social skills or your opinion of prevailing social trends; variants are about where your focus is fixed.

 

[Eric B]

I'll have to read through this again, to really digest it better, but [MENTION=16405]LeaT[/MENTION], it should be pointed out that the Ne-Si axis for an INP is what's called “the arm of consciousness”, which deals with ego's relation to others. The aux. in particular is the “Parent”, and is thus very visible to others; ESPECIALLY with it being extraverted. Dom. Ji is very “deep”, and can be hard to recognize, even for the person. So the aux. is what is easier to detect.
It should also be kept in mind that Te is the “backup” to dom. Ti, so that will be seen as well.
So you can't always go by how much you see someone “using” a function, to determine its place in the ego.

I see, again, Enneagram is being used almost as an appendage to type, to explain the Ti-like behavior, but that is where I think, to use your words on the other thread, the two systems weren't meant to be put together like that.

 

[Flatlander]

I'll have to read through this again, to really digest it better, but [MENTION=16405]LeaT[/MENTION], it should be pointed out that the Ne-Si axis for an INP is what's called “the arm of consciousness”, which deals with ego's relation to others. The aux. in particular is the “Parent”, and is thus very visible to others; ESPECIALLY with it being extraverted. Dom. Ji is very “deep”, and can be hard to recognize, even for the person. So the aux. is what is easier to detect.
It should also be kept in mind that Te is the “backup” to dom. Ti, so that will be seen as well.
So you can't always go by how much you see someone “using” a function, to determine its place in the ego.

I see, again, Enneagram is being used almost as an appendage to type, to explain the Ti-like behavior, but that is where I think, to use your words on the other thread, the two systems weren't meant to be put together like that.

How do you differentiate between someone whose Ji you can't find "because it's deep" - buried deeply - and someone whose Ji isn't as present because they're an Ne dominant?

 

[Entropic]

I'll have to read through this again, to really digest it better, but [MENTION=16405]LeaT[/MENTION], it should be pointed out that the Ne-Si axis for an INP is what's called “the arm of consciousness”, which deals with ego's relation to others. The aux. in particular is the “Parent”, and is thus very visible to others; ESPECIALLY with it being extraverted. Dom. Ji is very “deep”, and can be hard to recognize, even for the person. So the aux. is what is easier to detect.

Well, you have my questionnaire answers just two posts or so above this one to measure and compare to. Do you think my Ne-Si axis is more discernable than Ji-Je? I'm also many years older than the OP (25 as opposed to 18) so logically according to the theory you adhere to, my auxiliary should at this point be fully developed and I am now working on my tertiary (questionable). If your answer to that question is yes, my Ne is really discernible, then I guess there's merit to the theory but if the answer to that is no, it's not, then I wonder if it's truly applicable in all instances especially considering the OP's age since again, according to the theory you subscribe to, his auxiliary should almost be fully developed and thus also differentiated. Yet if that's true, then where is it?

It should also be kept in mind that Te is the “backup” to dom. Ti, so that will be seen as well.

How? If anything I get the feeling that the OP does not have either judging function fully differentiated because at some point the feeling function looks like Fe, other times Fi. It's thus just F, not fully differentiated. Also usually, we tend to strongly reject the same function but of opposite attitude of our dominant since it goes against everything we understand about the world. This is why I filter out Fe instantously and can't grasp an Fe perspective. Even if I try to convert it all comes out as Fi.

So you can't always go by how much you see someone “using” a function, to determine its place in the ego.

Oh yes I can, if there's nothing else to go after.

I see, again, Enneagram is being used almost as an appendage to type, to explain the Ti-like behavior, but that is where I think, to use your words on the other thread, the two systems weren't meant to be put together like that.

Which is ironic coming from you considering what you did in the MBTI vs socionics thread where you tried to connect the 4 humors temperaments to Keirsey types and enneagram. I think there's a big difference being able to see the difference of what is clearly someone's persona here which is why also applying enneagram is related and the actual functions expressed. As long as you realize that the theories are applicable but for different things I don't see the problem applying all of them when typing someone. You just need to realize where one of them ends and another begins.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

@louisgonnadie, I think ENFP and you are definitely soc first and I still fail to see a 4 wing (I will answer this questionnaire too just to really show you the contrast between a judging dominant 5w4 type). Your thinking is too focused on seeking security rather than self-expression in my opinion. So ENFP, IEE-Ne 5w6 so/sx. ENTP and ILE-Ne are still possible also (your aux isn't really discernable). Here are my reasons why I think Ne dominant as you clearly fail to exhibit any obvious judging function with either attitude in the questionnaire you answered (also, ILE is casual-deterministic):



In both these pictures you are more likely to describe the details of the picture, and both of them ending up with you coming up with possibilities of what the picture could be. You're not necessarily looking for meaning in the picture that would point towards an Ni preference (let alone that your description of Ne was really Ni before, speaking for that you don't really understand or have a natural preference towards Ni regardless of what Nardi's result gave you).

Nardi's test result also clearly reject sensation.


This example shows Ne again as well, because most people don't even know how to answer this question, let alone also add another perspective to this question. You clearly have no problem imagining yourself possibly doing something. Other than that, the portion in bold is strikingly 5-ish. This is what people confuse for Ti dominance but it's not. This is just how 5s operate in terms of thinking. I've done this as well in a short story that I wrote:



Again however, this is not necessarily Ti, it's just 5 think.


The latter portion of this question reeks of unhealthy soc instinct.



This one here suggests Ne dominance because again, all you really provide here is an Ne perspective. You keep looking for possibilities. It's also very a very soc oriented answer because you are actually quite aware of how others perceive you and you are doing this comparison quite easily and naturally. You keep describing yourself in relation to society in many of the questions that actually don't need such an answer or perspective which really indicates that the social instinct is really important to you and thus you are so first.

Also, being close-minded and such is just unhealthy 5 think. I was too. Militant atheist, for example.



A very 5-ish answer but with Ne tint, most definitely. It is important to note how you actually describe music here which you which appears to be a thinking function. Could be Te (could see an argument for Ne-Te preference as your top two), because the latter part, "gettling a feel for it", that reeks of Fi. Also indicates a slight sx preference as you are talking about a passion.


I know that you have a lot of mental health problems but your anxiety is peculiar even for a 5, and this is one of the reasons why I opine 6 wing as opposed to 4 wing. Being interested in the arts isn't enough to justify 4-wing. Any person can enjoy the arts or be artistic without having an ounce of 4 influence in them. [MENTION=15372]Flatlander[/MENTION] is for example a 592 and he's writing on a story. I actually think there's a great possibility you two share tritype. I really fail to see the 4 anywhere. (Contrast later to my response. People often mistake me for a 4 because my 4 wing and fixation is really strong).

Also that you bring up being homeless as an example here is quite a 6-like worry I think, out of a lot of I assume, examples you could provide. This is also the only answer that could point towards some kind sp think.


Just signs of schizoid personality disorder here (Naranjo links it to type 5).



Ne in a socionics sense in particular (jovial, goofy humor and so on) and soc. You want to be involved in groups.



The first portion speaks a bit more towards sx (but I think even soc types seek "depth", just that to them, depth is different than it is for an sx type) but most of the juice in this response is still focused on soc. You like being in groups and you seek out groups.



This answer here is very Ne with Fi and Te. When you complain about social values it's Fi-tinted. Most of all though, it's soc, soc and more soc. You definitely fall on the anti-soc spectrum.



More soc. Afraid of being alone, afraid of losing friends.


Your answer is very soc with a bit sp. To be married and raise a family is so/sp-ish. Also, the latter portion is so 6-like, finding your place in the world kind of deal. Where you belong, who you can trust.



Ne and soc and some sx. Mostly Ne and soc though.



More of a 5w6 answer. You don't seek an identity, you seek to understand a process, and there's even a possibility for 3 fix here because you are willing to adapt yourself accordingly in order to seek competence. Maybe 593 then. Could also be a connection from a 6 wing to 3.

Being emotional isn't what makes 5w4 necessarily although yes, 5w4 can be moody. Being artistic has nothing to do with 5w4 as well although 5w4s tend to be artistic. The problem is that you are very willing to adapt and shape your identity and conform to those around you, especially to appear as competent. Not only does this speak for a 3 fix, it also speaks for soc first. Soc first types are more likely to adapt themselves to the group in order to not disrupt the group. Me? I'm sx/sp and a 5w4 and I walk to the beat of my own drum. A 6 wing also gives a certain social grace a 4 wing lacks because the 4 wing makes you more preoccupied with yourself. A 6 wing influence makes you more likely to seek out a sense of belonging and security from a group, a community or authority figure. I very much see you doing this.

Also, let alone the blatant name dropping was very soc. I don't even know who half of these people are nor could I in fact care less.

Interesting perspectives especially pertaining to the variants, they seem pretty plausible and I reckon you know a lot about it (actually, your focus seems more enneagram than MBTI) so I'd probably agree, and peg my variant as so/sx or sx/so. If Sp is more focused towards security of the self (which I can relate to in some ways, so I'd still not rule it out of the aux-stacking just yet but as far as I know I've never been really focused towards those types of standards) then it doesn't quite resonate with me thoroughly, so that eliminates sp-dominance, and probably sp-auxiliary. Plus my desires to grow into a more interesting person do tend to pertain to desires of external approval from people I admire, especially, so that's a +1 for so-dom (and maybe 5w6).

I don't know a whole lot about the differences between 5w4/w6 but when I read some threads on that particular issue I was leaning towards the 4 wing. However they were mixed perspectives so they could have been a little off. I'm not sure about my wing anymore, I'll do more research but you seem very knowledgeable towards the enneagram, so I am somewhat trusting of your 5w6 estimate.

However I do have a question for you: how long have you been studying MBTI and enneagram theory, and if so, which do you focus towards more? Vague and broad question, perhaps, but I was wanting to ask. Also, you said in one of your estimates here, based on my creative and somewhat humorous description of myself:

Again however, this is not necessarily Ti, it's just 5 think.

From what I've read, type 5s usually lean towards Ti (fueled by Ne) types, for reasons varying, but mainly since the type 5 is seemingly on a quest for knowledge in terms of whatever that user is interested in, and looks towards numerous possibilities shifting, and the type 5 user is likely to dig deeper into them. Leans towards Ti (internal-based processing seeking a hypothesis) but it could be Te in some cases. Not sure, this is pure speculation. Not saying a type 5 will almost always have a primary Ti-preference, but it seems pretty plausible, which could explain why so many INTPs usually resonate with type 5.

So soc of you to notice these things. Very shaman-like. You take note of "interesting people" with "interesting knowledge" or "interesting skills".

Nope. Nothing of this is sp. Sp stands for self-preservation and its primary focus is the security of the self. Sp types are concerns about health, shelter and food because if you are sick there's a risk that you'll die, if you have no roof on top of your head there's a risk you'll die and if you have no food there's a risk you'll die. Sp types seek comfort and security in order to sustain ourselves. An example of sp is that I can over-eat when I'm hungry because as sx first I tend to reject or ignore my hunger feelings until the last minute. However, an sp last type would not over-eat as opposed to I. That sp is second makes me indulge in my instinct once I actually fulfill it.


Yes, that you mention admiration as the first thing that pops into your mind is soc. This is very soc 5 think. The rest points a bit more towards sx when you mention passions and desires that's more related to sx than soc. So so/sx.
This is not inferior Fe, this is the soc instinct. That you have a desire to fit in is soc. An Fe type doesn't necessarily feel the need to fit in. Fe is about extraverted feeling jugdement so what they do is to for example measure what's socially appropriate by taking in feeling values from the outside. I let an actual Fe types ( [MENTION=17911]Maybe[/MENTION] @flatliner perhaps?) explain this better because I'm largely oblivious to how Fe truly operates as a judging evaluation. I only understand Fi since this is my dominant preference.
Your Ne-Si axis is really strong so yes, it just suggests Ne dominance really in my opinion. The auxiliary and tertiary functions can barely be discerned. You just give us Ne and more Ne with some occasional Si. Also, the fact that you describe your Si so vividly could very well put it in an inferior position as you seem to approach it in more black and white terms.

By the way, I'm Si tertiary and I'm pretty much the anti-thesis of being nostalgic. I hate nostalgia (I also reject Si hardcore out of my psyche even though I unconsciously fall back on it a lot because my Ne is very strong). So citing nostalgia as an example of tertiary Si isn't true here and doesn't say anything. It's more relevant to know how it truly operates for you.

So question: how do you react if you suddenly find weird red spots on your body you never noticed before?


I still think this is an example of you tapping into Te as I think Te is more focused on qualitative data than quantitative.

lol no, socially introverted perhaps but cognitively? Nope. Can't see it. You just spit out Ne like in almost every answer you provide. So it makes you an ENxP. No offense to other typers here in this thread but to be quite blunt and crass, you get too blinded by the OP's persona and this is exactly what I was talking about in the MBTI vs socionics thread with Eric B. The type 5 is automatically going to look INTx because it's stereotypically similar in terms of behavior. However, once you look beyond the surface level of the persona the OP is depicting that's arguably also very 3-like in its projection, there really isn't much Ti dominant judgement to speak of, nor do I see any genuine signs of inferior Fe. There is however a lot of Ne going on, which in fact suggests it's probably the OP's dominant function.
Yeah, soc instinct.

I'll give you a secret (hah, so sx of me): I haven't read any official book on any kind of type theory except enneagram so I can't recommend anything to you. I have however read lots of excerpts and generally speaking I think one shouldn't get too hung up on books but try to formulate your own opinion (see, that's my 4 wing at work). It's not impossible to gain a lot of expertise by simply reading, contrasting and comparing a large bulk of information over time and still achieve great accuracy without ever truly accessing official sources.

One thing I find interesting somewhere in here: you estimated how based on what I mentioned in terms of trying to fit into groups that were appealing to me (and failing, I'll note) is more so-focused, but you mentioned that I could have an unhealthy-soc variant, or "anti-soc". From what I've read... if there is an unhealthy soc preference, that seems very inferior-Fe, especially based on what I have read around the internet, a lot of these characteristics resonate with inferior-Fe users. Or, they could be mistyped. But this is...a little sketchy. Do you mean that I may have a neglected so-dom or aux, due to circumstances in my life, thus making it unhealthy? This also leads me to this: do variants/instincts change? Or is it all cognitive, just like enneagram, MBTI/JUng typology, and the like?

As far as your estimate of Ne (Pe) dominance: it seems plausible, especially based off of what I wrote, but usually whenever my Pe spawns a possiblity, I tend to think it through and make sense of it all, rather than just follow and wander through whatever Pe throws at me. This suggests Ji > Pe to me. A lot of your estimates pertain to what I described about myself, and my quite possibly inaccurate discernation of what goes on in my head. So I'd still lean INxP at the moment, but I'm not ruling out having an extroverted dominant function. Unless I'm misunderstood, and the frequencies of whatever possibilities and such are spawned by Ne (Pe) actually determine the placement of where the function is? Or does it suggest a well developed aux and relationship between the dom and aux, thus, making things less distinguishable?

And about your question about finding red spots on my body: I'd assume it was either a rash or mosquito bites, or chicken pox, or something (if it was the latter I might probably freak out) but overall I wouldn't worry too much about it. It might make me feel a little uneasy, and the possibility of maybe having an infection of some sort would probably freak me out (since I've heard from people that infections are...scary), so that could lead me to take action. If it was something minor that didn't look like something with a connection to illness, sickness, whatever - I probably wouldn't care, maybe a little freaked out by it, but mainly nothing.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

I'll have to read through this again, to really digest it better, but [MENTION=16405]LeaT[/MENTION], it should be pointed out that the Ne-Si axis for an INP is what's called “the arm of consciousness”, which deals with ego's relation to others. The aux. in particular is the “Parent”, and is thus very visible to others; ESPECIALLY with it being extraverted. Dom. Ji is very “deep”, and can be hard to recognize, even for the person. So the aux. is what is easier to detect.
It should also be kept in mind that Te is the “backup” to dom. Ti, so that will be seen as well.
So you can't always go by how much you see someone “using” a function, to determine its place in the ego.

I see, again, Enneagram is being used almost as an appendage to type, to explain the Ti-like behavior, but that is where I think, to use your words on the other thread, the two systems weren't meant to be put together like that.

I kind of get where you're coming from here. It seems like, and I've always got the impression that the enneagram suggests a certain flavor to a MBTI type. I would also agree that when in extrovert mode, and I would assume the aux comes out much more than the inferior, and since it is pretty developed (or in some cases very developed) it can be mistaken as a dominant function since there is so much emphasis being put on the aux. However, it is based off of processing styles, so for example, we have Ne and Ti; of course many ideas branch out and we dig deep into them, but is the focus of processing more towards generating ideas and connections, forming very abstract ideas with shaky levels of emphasis towards components of the whole connection, and digging deep into those components with less emphasis later, or digging deep into ideas and making more sense of connections, almost crafting them into an architectural structure of thoughts, and then branching out more ideas and random connections later? This is just a very raw speculation, however, I could be totally off the mark. Maybe elaborate further on this?

 

[Entropic]

Interesting perspectives especially pertaining to the variants, they seem pretty plausible and I reckon you know a lot about it (actually, your focus seems more enneagram than MBTI) so I'd probably agree, and peg my variant as so/sx or sx/so. If Sp is more focused towards security of the self (which I can relate to in some ways, so I'd still not rule it out of the aux-stacking just yet but as far as I know I've never been really focused towards those types of standards) then it doesn't quite resonate with me thoroughly, so that eliminates sp-dominance, and probably sp-auxiliary. Plus my desires to grow into a more interesting person do tend to pertain to desires of external approval from people I admire, especially, so that's a +1 for so-dom (and maybe 5w6).

I don't know a whole lot about the differences between 5w4/w6 but when I read some threads on that particular issue I was leaning towards the 4 wing. However they were mixed perspectives so they could have been a little off. I'm not sure about my wing anymore, I'll do more research but you seem very knowledgeable towards the enneagram, so I am somewhat trusting of your 5w6 estimate.

However I do have a question for you: how long have you been studying MBTI and enneagram theory, and if so, which do you focus towards more? Vague and broad question, perhaps, but I was wanting to ask. Also, you said in one of your estimates here, based on my creative and somewhat humorous description of myself:

Read my questionnaire answer to realize that your lack of focus on authenticity doesn't speak for a 4 wing. I wrote that for a reason. Also, there's no point focusing on your MTBI type anymore because all you do is Ne, Ne and more Ne. It's so obvious you're an Ne dom that I think only those who get stuck on seeing your 5 persona mistake you for an INTP. And I've been studying this for about half a year when it comes to MBTI and Jung, less than that when it comes to enneagram. I don't focus towards either one specifically.

Also,

Again however, this is not necessarily Ti, it's just 5 think.

From what I've read, type 5s usually lean towards Ti (fueled by Ne) types, for reasons varying, but mainly since the type 5 is seemingly on a quest for knowledge in terms of whatever that user is interested in, and looks towards numerous possibilities shifting, and the type 5 user is likely to dig deeper into them. Leans towards Ti (internal-based processing seeking a hypothesis) but it could be Te in some cases. Not sure, this is pure speculation. Not saying a type 5 will almost always have a primary Ti-preference, but it seems pretty plausible, which could explain why so many INTPs usually resonate with type 5.

No, this is entirely missing the point I was making and doesn't show good reflection of how it works. The problem is that people think/believe they are INTx types because they are E5 by confusing the nature of E5 with say, Ti dominance. However, it shows a lack of insight of how the systems work because functions don't operate as 5 think.

One thing I find interesting somewhere in here: you estimated how based on what I mentioned in terms of trying to fit into groups that were appealing to me (and failing, I'll note) is more so-focused, but you mentioned that I could have an unhealthy-soc variant, or "anti-soc". From what I've read... if there is an unhealthy soc preference, that seems very inferior-Fe, especially based on what I have read around the internet, a lot of these characteristics resonate with inferior-Fe users. Or, they could be mistyped. But this is...a little sketchy. Do you mean that I may have a neglected so-dom or aux, due to circumstances in my life, thus making it unhealthy? This also leads me to this: do variants/instincts change? Or is it all cognitive, just like enneagram, MBTI/JUng typology, and the like?

You're not an inferior Fe type. ENFP is most likely right for you. Anti-soc is simply a neurotic soc which can appear in any type. It simply relates to a counter-soc attitude so instead of seeking community you reject community. And yes, something like the matter. And no, I doubt it relates to our cognitive functions.

As far as your estimate of Ne (Pe) dominance: it seems plausible, especially based off of what I wrote, but usually whenever my Pe spawns a possiblity, I tend to think it through and make sense of it all, rather than just follow and wander through whatever Pe throws at me. This suggests Ji > Pe to me. A lot of your estimates pertain to what I described about myself, and my quite possibly inaccurate discernation of what goes on in my head. So I'd still lean INxP at the moment, but I'm not ruling out having an extroverted dominant function. Unless I'm misunderstood, and the frequencies of whatever possibilities and such are spawned by Ne (Pe) actually determine the placement of where the function is? Or does it suggest a well developed aux and relationship between the dom and aux, thus, making things less distinguishable?

Check the difference in our writings. The difference shouldn't be more apparent. You can't come to decisions for the life you, to judge data and facts. It's just pure Ne all over the place. See, look at you, all those questions. You're not arriving at any conclusions that would indicate strong Ji. This has nothing to do with placement; this has simply to do with the fact that you cognitively seem to view the world through Ne, not Ji. Which makes you an ENxP, I reiterate, an ENxP, not INxP. I'm what you'd call an INxP. Read how we approach data differently. The fact you cannot seem to decide on your own annoys the hell out of me because to me this is so obvious. You just decide, see? That's Ji.

And about your question about finding red spots on my body: I'd assume it was either a rash or mosquito bites, or chicken pox, or something (if it was the latter I might probably freak out) but overall I wouldn't worry too much about it. It might make me feel a little uneasy, and the possibility of maybe having an infection of some sort would probably freak me out (since I've heard from people that infections are...scary), so that could lead me to take action. If it was something minor that didn't look like something with a connection to illness, sickness, whatever - I probably wouldn't care, maybe a little freaked out by it, but mainly nothing.

Look at you, freaking out over the possibility that the rash could be something dangerous even though you're not sp first or second. You're freaked out by random red spots on your body? Inferior Si. I just needed to confirm that really by having you write something in relation to it which you there here.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

Hmm. I forgot to mention that when you said you combined all of the information that you've read and formed a judgement based off of it, that's what I'm trying to do. The problem is it can be REALLY confusing since this is all one big theory that can be misinterpreted by many people (ESPECIALLY the work of Jung). That's why I appear so....indecisive, and speculative, on MBTI.

Oh, and not to sound like an ass (I REALLY don't intend to) but I think you kind of misinterpreted and overemphasized my statement of freaking out over chicken pox, or a rash or whatever. I meant if it was chicken pox, I'd probably freak out at first, but it would settle in. If it was just random red spots...it wouldn't really make much of a difference, just some minor uneasiness towards it. If it was somewhere where I couldn't see it, I probably wouldn't care.

Ok. The summoning of LeaT has subsided.

 

[Eric B]

Well, you have my questionnaire answers just two posts or so above this one to measure and compare to. Do you think my Ne-Si axis is more discernable than Ji-Je? I'm also many years older than the OP (25 as opposed to 18) so logically according to the theory you adhere to, my auxiliary should at this point be fully developed and I am now working on my tertiary (questionable). If your answer to that question is yes, my Ne is really discernible, then I guess there's merit to the theory but if the answer to that is no, it's not, then I wonder if it's truly applicable in all instances especially considering the OP's age since again, according to the theory you subscribe to, his auxiliary should almost be fully developed and thus also differentiated. Yet if that's true, then where is it?

You answer most of those questions through Enneagram rather than functions, and when I look at them in terms of functions, most of them seem to pertain more to judging functions anyway, so of course, the few functions you mention would be the Fi/Te "rational spine" and not the NeSi "irrational arm".

But right off the bat, I could see in the following answers that do touch on perceiving:
#2a sounds like Ni more than Fi (or Ne)
#2b Fi and Si
3 sounds like NeSi
11 a and b: N
13: Ne+Ti (you're not interested in establishing the order yourself,but having someone else do it. Otherwise, the whole concept of "order" is relative)
15, 16a: Ne + Fi

OP #5 you asked basically an "extraverted" question; i.e. focused on the outside world. So of course he turned to his preferred extraverted perspective. (hence, "possibilities" of what others would think). On your answer, you again used instinctual variants only, but even still, you do reference possibilities (how people "can" see you, how you "can" come off, how you think you don't come off, with even an admission of uncertainty)

#6 I see Ti. What you seem to be doing is interpreting all his Ti as Enneagram 5, and it may match somehow, but you seem to be using one system to sidestep elements of the other, to place him in a type of that other. That doesn't make sense

#11, don't forget that Fe is inferior, so a young INTP will likely complain just as much, if not more, about social values. This is when Lenore's theory of the "right brain alternative" (Fi "Crow's Nest") would come in as well.

(It should also be noted that the ages of development of aux. and afterward will vary. My tertiary Si developed young; beginning around 12, while the tert. is often said to develop in the 20's. So it doesn't matter which of you is older (by just 7 years, yet).

How? If anything I get the feeling that the OP does not have either judging function fully differentiated because at some point the feeling function looks like Fe, other times Fi. It's thus just F, not fully differentiated. Also usually, we tend to strongly reject the same function but of opposite attitude of our dominant since it goes against everything we understand about the world. This is why I filter out Fe instantously and can't grasp an Fe perspective. Even if I try to convert it all comes out as Fi.

Feeling being undifferentiated right there should be the defining identifier of it as inferior. The aux. should be developed by his age. It's possible for it to not be, but I think that is probably rare.
That's also why you have Lenore's theory, which says that the Fi might even show up before Fe. Many people's K2C results even match this.

Which is ironic coming from you considering what you did in the MBTI vs socionics thread where you tried to connect the 4 humors temperaments to Keirsey types and enneagram. I think there's a big difference being able to see the difference of what is clearly someone's persona here which is why also applying enneagram is related and the actual functions expressed. As long as you realize that the theories are applicable but for different things I don't see the problem applying all of them when typing someone. You just need to realize where one of them ends and another begins.

Yes, I believe they parallel, and I believe the Enneagram seems to match this parallel, but again, the way you're doing it, you have one system tacked on as an appendage, that you use as a contrary explanation of something that can be described by the functions. So the OP, instead of simply being an INTP becomes an "ENFP5", because everything he does that looks like "Ti", is really this fifth variable, the Enneagram type. This to me seems to be making it more confusing.

 

[Eric B]

How do you differentiate between someone whose Ji you can't find "because it's deep" - buried deeply - and someone whose Ji isn't as present because they're an Ne dominant?

If they're Ne dominant, than Ji is auxiliary, and thus is "present". It still might be "deep" and thus hard to grasp, but since it's now in the "Parent" position, it will be what he tends to reference in dealing with (like helping out) others. The archetypal roles are the best determinant, for they begin with the dominant, which is like the ego's "operating charter", and everything else hangs from that; the auxiliary is then like the "helper". It's based on the subject's ego structure, not what outside people think they see being "used" the most.