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  1. #81
    undergoing self-analysis louiesgonnadie's Avatar
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    I also suspect I have a learning disability, so some of the data I've been reading up on in terms of typology is hard to interpret...another reason why it's hard to figure out my type. Another reason why I consulted the external world.
    "For a minute there, I lost myself...I lost myself."

    LOUIS CK: "We don't think about how we talk"
    http://zenpencils.com/comic/95-louis...t-how-we-talk/

  2. #82
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by louiesgonnadie View Post
    I also suspect I have a learning disability, so some of the data I've been reading up on in terms of typology is hard to interpret...another reason why it's hard to figure out my type. Another reason why I consulted the external world.
    Which isn't surprising. You would not be and are not the only one, after all the information has some definition to it, but each person who writes about typology and each person who reads about typology ends up understanding and interpreting the information in their own way.

    If I were a more intelligent and mathematically witty individual I would make up a jokey calculation which assumes the writer of a typology book interprets the information in their own way, divided by the average amount of individuals who might read the book, (lets say...500 to be nice to the writer), which then equals the misinformation factor that can potentially amount from so many people filtering data in their own way.

    Well i'll leave that joke there since i'm not very good at pretending to know what i'm talking about and my knowledge of mathematical jargon is running thin.

    The point is that even though reality as seen through our eyes is ultimately subjective, there is still something that can roughly be called objective which we need to accurately tie this theory back to. Otherwise we end up with a series of crackpot theorists throwing their mental faeces at each other and calling it fact. Unfortunately it is hard to measure an idea that only concerns the intangible.

    The closest thing we have is Dario Nardi's neuroscience, but many would find, upon closer examination, that it is unsatisfying, relying as it does upon the assumption that this theory is ALREADY correct and inherent. Also some people have mentioned something about the control groups not being examined rigorously enough.

    But i'd have to look at it more myself for that one.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
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  3. #83
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    But shouldn't I logically show greater signs of Ne and Si than the OP considering my age?

    I kind of feel like you're making up vague excuses to not look into things further.
    I am saying that you identifying with the OP doesn't necessarily say much since you've yet to prove with concrete evidence how the OP cognitively fits the INxP type more than ENxP. It's one thing that I type as INxP because I'm making fun out of the systems but I think it's strange if the OP is Ji dominant, that neither preference is expressed towards Ti or Fi which it should.
    Not necessarily. You're two different people with different situations, and the age difference isn't even great enough to demand “more signs”.
    And neither your quiz, nor your other observations are absolute determinants anyway. (And neither are mine, so that's why I gave a guess and said I would have to read the OP more. Yet you're being very absolute about it, and it's not always that clear. This is not “concrete”, it's “abstract”.

    Heck, the way you're debating, you seem to be TiNe yourself, which you admitted for MBTI. (I still don't see how it would be Fi in “Jung”).
    It's not always simply about mining someone's writing/speech for “signs” of function “use”. You'll probably say i'm just looking at “persona”, but I believe that's another “sign” as well. I see a focus on critical debate.
    That you identify with his processes could equally be you projecting. We don't know this but we do know that it happens often with say, those who are enneatype 9 which your thinking does strongly suggest at. The problem with the enneatype 9 is that they easily over-identify with anything other than themselves because they rather be something else than themselves. Not because I am saying you are a 9, but You noted this yourself with my questionnaire and what matters is the dominant, not auxiliary. Auxiliary plays a very little role in Jungian psychology.
    I never identified with 9. It's always 4,5 and 6. 9 was in one of the possible trifixes, IIRC.
    But you suggested this yourself in the other thread where you mention that a function appearing in the unconscious is more "immature" thus also suggesting that a function can equally be "mature". Differentiation in fact means development of a function because you tap into its actual potential.

    You contradicted yourself. On the one hand you say it defaults to the opposite, but then you say the attitude is not differentiated. Can only be either one.
    It technically falls into the opposite realm, because that's where everything that the ego rejects is collected. Since everything in this realm is undifferentiated, the line between the attitudes is also very unclear.

    The problem, again, is treating these things like “concrete” objects that have hard boundaries. They aren't.
    What I believe really sets the definite orientation and stacking order is the archetypal complexes, or basically, the IM's. So the anima will be associated with the opposite function, opposite attitude, and the Demonic Personality will associate with the even further repressed dominant attitude of the opposite function.

    This is also the answer to the first part (regarding function “maturation”), which stemmed from your claim that if the inferior weren't differentiated, the dominant wouldn't be either. Also on that point, I acknowledge “development”, but the term can be overused, further causing the misconstruing of the functions into skills, which was my main concern there.
    Last edited by Eric B; 03-29-2013 at 05:07 PM.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by louiesgonnadie View Post
    So what do you think Ji-->Ne would be like?
    I have a weak understanding of Ti, so I can't speak to that...I guess if you want an explanation of how I use Fi-->Ne (which I doubt would be very relevant unless you're considering INFP), PM me. This thread is already all over the place.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decrescendo View Post
    My Ne scores are significantly higher than Ji, yet even I would have come to a conclusion by now. I can be overwhelmed by possibilities, too, but at this point I'd have settled with what best aligned with my subjective experience. I didn't type myself by weighing all the different possibilities as much as I trusted my instincts.

    and what you're describing sounds much more like Ne -- > Ji to me, not the other way around.
    Same. I score ver high on Ne on Nardi's test, often higher than Fi and Ti.

    Like you I would have come to a conclusion by now by simply checking with how the data being presented overlaps with my experiences and understanding of myself by checking if it makes sense to me or not. If it does type is settled, otherwise I narrow my focus further.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  6. #86
    undergoing self-analysis louiesgonnadie's Avatar
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    I just have one more question for now: let's say I'm sure about my type, or having a function preference, but I consult the external world to check for validation. Does this always = Te?
    "For a minute there, I lost myself...I lost myself."

    LOUIS CK: "We don't think about how we talk"
    http://zenpencils.com/comic/95-louis...t-how-we-talk/

  7. #87
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    No, that's too mechanical a way of looking at the functions (what I was talking about regarding them being treated like gears or skills).
    As a Ti dom, you could look at it as being backup Te (the opposite attitude "backs up" the dominant); but not necessarily. It could be Fe too, but again, not necessarily.
    Everyday behaviors may involve different functions, but they cannot always be pinned to particular function "use", as if the behaviors were the functions themselves.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  8. #88
    undergoing self-analysis louiesgonnadie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    No, that's too mechanical a way of looking at the functions (what I was talking about regarding them being treated like gears or skills).
    As a Ti dom, you could look at it as being backup Te (the opposite attitude "backs up" the dominant); but not necessarily. It could be Fe too, but again, not necessarily.
    Everyday behaviors may involve different functions, but they cannot always be pinned to particular function "use", as if the behaviors were the functions themselves.
    This whole "backup" thing is interesting, I've never heard it thrown around much around typology forums much...

    And yeah I could see Fe being possible, in certain aspects. I'm just not sure if I'm Ti-dom though.

    Did you check out that link I mentioned BTW? On page 7?
    "For a minute there, I lost myself...I lost myself."

    LOUIS CK: "We don't think about how we talk"
    http://zenpencils.com/comic/95-louis...t-how-we-talk/

  9. #89
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I looked at the link. Interesting ideas. I see he calls the J (Je/Pi) functions "directive" and the P functions (Pe/Ji) "adaptive".

    I guess what he's saying makes sense.

    And, yes, I'm still going with INTP. Don't know absolutely, but you seem to fit.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  10. #90
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I looked at the link. Interesting ideas. I see he calls the J (Je/Pi) functions "directive" and the P functions (Pe/Ji) "adaptive".

    I guess what he's saying makes sense.

    And, yes, I'm still going with INTP. Don't know absolutely, but you seem to fit.
    Such thinking is common in certain circles in these typology forums. Je/Pi is an abstract way of referring to ESTJ, ESFJ, ENTJ, and ENFJ types. Pe/Ji is an abstract way of referring to ESTP, ESFP, ENTP, and ENFP. But they are both wrong.

    I think making it so abstract just scares many people away from typology who actually might get into it. The situation is much simpler than this.

    A J (Judicious) type is directive. This doesn't relate to functions, but to letters only. And it encompasses more types, eight in fact, including all MBTI types that end with the letter J.

    A P (Perceptive) type is adaptive. It also encompasses eight MBTI types, all the types that end with the letter P.

    So much for the idea that Je/Pi is directive, etc.

    The reason you don't know his type absolutely is that you can never know it absolutely. You're the one who stated previously that there are no concrete boundaries. The only thing you can have absolutely in this realm is either certainty or uncertainty.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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