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  1. #31
    Senior Member KatharineML's Avatar
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    Yes, you are definitely on the T end of the spectrum
    Your intensity just shows, I'm not sure that I'll be able to explain it. Sometimes, when you speak, you rush a little and the intensity shows then, but before, even when you're speaking slowly, it is there. Also, just the detail that you are going into on all of this seems quite intense (I relate to that a lot and people call me intense too!)
    I think you are more likely to be 5w4.
    In fact, I think, being a 5, and an intp, you are prone to constant doubt, so are unlikely ever to feel sure about this! The thing is, Myers Briggs does not and cannot explain the whole person ... you'll always be a mystery, a living and growing and changing thing, to some extent

  2. #32
    Senior Member KatharineML's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by louiesgonnadie View Post
    Hehe, what about me seems intense, may I ask? :p

    And yeah, I was thinking about 4w5. But the thing is I don't really publicize my emotions, I deal with them in private. If I get really close to someone emotionally (like a partner) I might showcase some of my emotions to her. That's the closest I'd get to publicizing my emotions.
    Yes, you are definitely on the T end of the spectrum
    Your intensity just shows, I'm not sure that I'll be able to explain it. Sometimes, when you speak, you rush a little and the intensity shows then, but before, even when you're speaking slowly, it is there. Also, just the detail that you are going into on all of this seems quite intense (I relate to that a lot and people call me intense too!)

    I think you are more likely to be 5w4.

    In fact, I think, being a 5, and an intp, you are prone to constant doubt, so are unlikely ever to feel sure about this! The thing is, Myers Briggs does not and cannot explain the whole person ... you'll always be a mystery, a living and growing and changing thing, to some extent

  3. #33
    undergoing self-analysis louiesgonnadie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KatharineML View Post
    Yes, you are definitely on the T end of the spectrum
    Your intensity just shows, I'm not sure that I'll be able to explain it. Sometimes, when you speak, you rush a little and the intensity shows then, but before, even when you're speaking slowly, it is there. Also, just the detail that you are going into on all of this seems quite intense (I relate to that a lot and people call me intense too!)

    I think you are more likely to be 5w4.

    In fact, I think, being a 5, and an intp, you are prone to constant doubt, so are unlikely ever to feel sure about this! The thing is, Myers Briggs does not and cannot explain the whole person ... you'll always be a mystery, a living and growing and changing thing, to some extent
    Interesting. Very interesting...

    Speaking of doubts, I've having doubts my N/S dichtomy. Well, yeah I was on Adderall XR (30mg) because of ADHD issues (it was crucial) so it amped up my senses, but something doesn't seem right about Ne to me...given I don't know a lot about it, or can distingush Ni/Ne very well yet. But, something seems off about this whole INxP possibility to me....now possibly having a bias towards INxP, this is causing me to be more aware of the processes and is causing me to use them more, or try to use them?

    Do I seem to have Ne, or any intuition preference?

    EDIT: Doubting my T, if I indeed have it. I posted a facebook status talking about my past and how I feel like I screwed up a lot.

    Maybe this is just my 4 wing peeking out?

    "Looking back at your previous life experiences, and realizing how much of a deluded idiot you were. Yeah, bad circumstances can hold you down like quicksand, but couldn't I have used my deck of cards in a more sophisticated way? Couldn't I have been less naive? Due to this, substantial alienation of peers occurs, leading to bad impressions. Could it have been...anxiety? Was I not aware of this "anxiety" in the past? Does anxiety in my case breed overanalyzing and overthinking every next move I make, like I do now?

    Or is this the natural state of how my brain processes things, and it's just developing over time?"
    "For a minute there, I lost myself...I lost myself."

    LOUIS CK: "We don't think about how we talk"
    http://zenpencils.com/comic/95-louis...t-how-we-talk/

  4. #34
    Senior Member KatharineML's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by louiesgonnadie View Post
    Interesting. Very interesting...

    Speaking of doubts, I've having doubts my N/S dichtomy. Well, yeah I was on Adderall XR (30mg) because of ADHD issues (it was crucial) so it amped up my senses, but something doesn't seem right about Ne to me...given I don't know a lot about it, or can distingush Ni/Ne very well yet. But, something seems off about this whole INxP possibility to me....now possibly having a bias towards INxP, this is causing me to be more aware of the processes and is causing me to use them more, or try to use them?

    Do I seem to have Ne, or any intuition preference?

    EDIT: Doubting my T, if I indeed have it. I posted a facebook status talking about my past and how I feel like I screwed up a lot.

    Maybe this is just my 4 wing peeking out?

    "Looking back at your previous life experiences, and realizing how much of a deluded idiot you were. Yeah, bad circumstances can hold you down like quicksand, but couldn't I have used my deck of cards in a more sophisticated way? Couldn't I have been less naive? Due to this, substantial alienation of peers occurs, leading to bad impressions. Could it have been...anxiety? Was I not aware of this "anxiety" in the past? Does anxiety in my case breed overanalyzing and overthinking every next move I make, like I do now?

    Or is this the natural state of how my brain processes things, and it's just developing over time?"
    Quote Originally Posted by louiesgonnadie View Post
    Interesting. Very interesting...

    Speaking of doubts, I've having doubts my N/S dichtomy. Well, yeah I was on Adderall XR (30mg) because of ADHD issues (it was crucial) so it amped up my senses, but something doesn't seem right about Ne to me...given I don't know a lot about it, or can distingush Ni/Ne very well yet. But, something seems off about this whole INxP possibility to me....now possibly having a bias towards INxP, this is causing me to be more aware of the processes and is causing me to use them more, or try to use them?

    Do I seem to have Ne, or any intuition preference?


    [/I]
    Others may be able to help you more here, to be honest, but my own definition of Ne vs Se is that Ne is quick to KNOW (leading to action), and Se is quick to ACT (leading to knowledge). Do you know which way round you do things?

  5. #35
    Senior Member KatharineML's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by louiesgonnadie View Post
    Interesting. Very interesting...

    Speaking of doubts, I've having doubts my N/S dichtomy. Well, yeah I was on Adderall XR (30mg) because of ADHD issues (it was crucial) so it amped up my senses, but something doesn't seem right about Ne to me...given I don't know a lot about it, or can distingush Ni/Ne very well yet. But, something seems off about this whole INxP possibility to me....now possibly having a bias towards INxP, this is causing me to be more aware of the processes and is causing me to use them more, or try to use them?

    Do I seem to have Ne, or any intuition preference?

    EDIT: Doubting my T, if I indeed have it. I posted a facebook status talking about my past and how I feel like I screwed up a lot.

    Maybe this is just my 4 wing peeking out?

    "Looking back at your previous life experiences, and realizing how much of a deluded idiot you were. Yeah, bad circumstances can hold you down like quicksand, but couldn't I have used my deck of cards in a more sophisticated way? Couldn't I have been less naive? Due to this, substantial alienation of peers occurs, leading to bad impressions. Could it have been...anxiety? Was I not aware of this "anxiety" in the past? Does anxiety in my case breed overanalyzing and overthinking every next move I make, like I do now?

    Or is this the natural state of how my brain processes things, and it's just developing over time?"
    Quote Originally Posted by louiesgonnadie View Post
    Interesting. Very interesting...

    Speaking of doubts, I've having doubts my N/S dichtomy. Well, yeah I was on Adderall XR (30mg) because of ADHD issues (it was crucial) so it amped up my senses, but something doesn't seem right about Ne to me...given I don't know a lot about it, or can distingush Ni/Ne very well yet. But, something seems off about this whole INxP possibility to me....now possibly having a bias towards INxP, this is causing me to be more aware of the processes and is causing me to use them more, or try to use them?

    Do I seem to have Ne, or any intuition preference?


    [/I]
    Others may be able to help you more here, to be honest, but my own definition of Ne vs Se is that Ne is quick to KNOW (leading to action), and Se is quick to ACT (leading to knowledge). Do you know which way round you do things?

  6. #36
    undergoing self-analysis louiesgonnadie's Avatar
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    Yeah I was considering consulting others. As far as relating to your estimate of Ne vs Se: it's been one way or the other, really. I have anxiety so I think before I act usually (I need to feel comfortable in terms of what I am doing) but when I was a kid, I think I was more impulsive. However I don't really remember, and I was Adderall infused back then, so....it's foggy.
    @phobik @Lady X @Rasofy @Eric B @skylights @chana @Night @Infinite Bubble @LeaT Any of you feel inclined to chime in and make an estimate based off of all of the data in this thread, dare I say?
    "For a minute there, I lost myself...I lost myself."

    LOUIS CK: "We don't think about how we talk"
    http://zenpencils.com/comic/95-louis...t-how-we-talk/

  7. #37
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    I am not sure why I am summoned but anyway, here's my analysis:

    Quote Originally Posted by louiesgonnadie View Post
    Introverted Feeling

    While I'm not selfish, sometimes, I can feel strongly about something even if someone else doesn't feel the same way, although sometimes a nagging part of me wants to feel the way that person does. I got this excerpt from ENFP wiki: "Fi allows its users to have an understanding of the core or essence of people quickly." I can sometimes relate to this. I can be too self critical of myself, have self esteem issues, and have a hard time believing really positive commentary directed towards me.
    What you desribe here isn't Fi as much as it sounds like a weaker form of Fe such as tertiary or inferior I think. I get the impression you're seeking external emotional validation as a guideline rather than acting on your own internal values.

    Extraverted Feeling

    I try to consider the needs of others. I try to be loyal. I can read emotions pretty well. I've gotten better at expressing my emotions over the years, but I wouldn't say I'm necessarily great at it. I can laugh when other people are laughing, even if the cause of external laughing wasn't very funny.
    Inferior style: I sometimes have trouble relating to others (this is usually due to interests). I used to have slight anger issues, to the point where I would kick doors down. I actually still do sometimes get destructive when I am really angry, and feel like I have to let it out. I have been slowly getting more emotional, even in unexpected situations, and I feel like I have to bottle up my emotions and am afraid of letting them spill out. I am also slowly getting more and more affected by the external emotions of an environment. I have a desire to fit in into certain groups, to an extent, but I sometimes have trouble with this (especially in the past).
    I don't think anything you described here points towards the feeling function at all. Same with what you described regarding Fi but you were at least trying to get down with personal values with that one but your vaciliation towards being concerned around external feelings than internal shows a biased towards Fe, not Fi. I'm a 5w4 Fi type and I do not really care much what other people think or feel. It's about me and my feelings and if something feels right or not. Probably exaggerated because I'm soc last.

    I'd argue that your desire to fit in groups and seek group belonging probably speaks for a strog soc drive as either first or second, although the part you mention about not relating to people due to interests could point towards sx since sx connects through common like/dislikes and such.

    Introverted Sensing

    I am nostalgic, actually going way back to when I was a kid, around the age of 10 or so (leading me once to consider the possibility of me being Si-dom, or an ISFJ, but that seems unlikely). I attach certain memories to certain objects or music (this happens often, not just memories but actual thoughts in my head at a time!). I am sometimes reminded of a previous situation, by being in a similar situation related to a previous situation. Sometimes I have an experience or moment that I have been in, that stood out for whatever reason to me (peaceful, fascinating, etc.) and try to replicate it. I have a strong internal memory of different tastes and smells, and am reminded of experiences associated with that piece of sensory data.
    Si isn't about nostalgia, it's about personal interpretations of sense data and awareness of your own body. While Si types can have associations with physical objects it's not the nostalgia that's Si; it's the impressions coming back at you that are. Anyway, the rest probably points strongly towards Si. Could be an auxiliary function in the sense of Ji-Si-Ne-Je.

    Extraverted Sensing

    Sometimes when I'm learning something concrete (like working with computers) I have to see how it works, an image, or witness it working in order to fully understand it, or finalize my understanding. I am aware of my surroundings to an extent, or "good enough" (even though I don't always notice everything in a room, or all of the details of components making up an object, or there may be something I have never noticed in a place that I am familiar with). If I am in the right mindset, at ease (not stressed), and in a good mood, I can live in the moment, to an extent. Certain aesthetics can fascinate and stimulate me, but not have a strong effect on my mood. I want to have new experiences, and travel (but this mainly has to do with me not having many experiences in my life, in my 18 mundane years of existence). I have a pretty observational and somewhat physically-oriented sense of humor. I tend to prefer realistic video games over fantasy oriented ones. I like to go out in severe weather, mainly for the pure thrill of it, but also to see how it develops. I have good eye sight and sensitive hearing. I have a fascination for abstract art/design.
    Inferior style: I may overprepare for something I may expect (I have a phobia of loud noises, so during thunderstorms I would cover my ears in case a loud strike would crash; while I don't do this anymore I still fear a crash). I may watch a tv show or play a certain video game to escape (not to necessarily "escape" from reality but distract myself from it). Sometimes I get intimidated by certain things, when I was a kid I thought bare trees looked creepy. Sometimes I might stare at some random object longer than I should (like for 5 seconds or so). I sometimes overindulge in binge eating, although not to a huge extent.
    You're not describing Se here dude, it's all Ne with Si. How did describing your approach towards the physical world end up being about your kind of humor or seeking realism? You're describing an abstract idea that you connect with your personal sense experiences. Also, the inferior description sounds more like you being an HSP kind of person. Inferior Se is more like, "Where did that telephone pole outside my window appear from? Has it always been there? Do I know it exists or not since I can't remember seeing it before?" the kind of thing.

    Also the escapism you describe sounds like 5 > 7 or similar and the tree example is Si in a nutshell. The over-indulgance in eating sounds like sp second. I do this too when I realize I've neglected my sp needs so I over-indulge in sleeping, eating and so on.

    Introverted Thinking

    I question a lot, and I am always contemplating and introspecting. I usually have to have a period of contemplation on something before I can make an opinion (basically, I take external information (facts, opinions, insight, etc.), check for accuracy, take out what is irrelevant, mix in related internal information and form an information pool, and form an idea that doesn't conclude [or is close to conclude, or an open conclusion] Basically, I form my own opinion based on past data I have collected and opinions I have formed, correlating with recent external data that seems accurate and makes sense to me. If I am in the right mindset, I like figuring out how systems work, so everything related to it can make sense to me. I am always changing my mind on certain things. When I am exploring a subject, eventually I feel like I have to know everything about it and related to it. I can point out flaws in any passage, if I know what's wrong with it.
    You're not describing Ti although you are describing your thinking process that seems to be more in line with Ti. Most of all though, you are describing enneagram 5 think. This doesn't say much.

    Extraverted Thinking

    Sometimes in conversation, I can jump from one idea to another. Sometimes I need external validation to feel confident in an opinion or open conclusion (like for example; me posting this thread to get external output). Sometimes I rearrange things in their right order (like, red pens go along with red and green pens go along with green). If there is empirical information that I agree with, I lean towards it, but not in a rigid stance. Unless I'm obsessed with something, I don't dig really deep into a specific thought for a long period of time. I've been fascinated by creating bar graphs and charts, and such. Sometimes, if I'm concerned about something, I feel like I need results immediately. Although this could be anxiety working with curiosity.
    Jumping from one idea to another is Ne, not Te. Also, seeking validation could as well be Fe (the opinions of others) as Te (the external facts). The fact you think there is a right order to how things are arranged suggests judging preference though, and that you think there is a certain systemic order in which they should actually be placed based on an external factual nugget of data (the color scheme) would perhaps be indicative of Te.

    If you like creating bars, charts and graphs it could be an attempt to tap into inferior Te like how I do it by playing strategy games that require systematization.

    Introverted iNtuiting

    I look towards the future, usually. I create an ideal of who I want to be (like I have a mental image in my head of who I could be in the future) and try to work at it, but the thing is that mental image usually changes depending on my preferences. I can sometimes envision transformations of people, including imagining what someone may look like in the future, or notice the mental evolution of someone (i.e. lazy, poor guy to hard working middle class man). I have these sudden bursts of insight sometimes, and I have to explain it in my head in order to have an idea of how to put it into words. This usually occurs when I'm contemplating. If I want to, I can combine related possibilities. I might have the ability to form theories by combining and contrasting information. I sometimes get accurate or inaccurate impressions of how things work, like how electricity may flow through an object, even if I have barely any knowledge about it. I do tend to seek out causes of things and apply them to whatever I am concerned about.
    This sounds like Si with Ne rather than Ni.

    Extraverted iNtuiting

    I can come up with many possibilities to a situation, maybe slower than the average Ne user since my ADHD can kick in and switch my attention to other things. My sense of humor has an Ne vibe to it, looking at scenarios and coming up with all sorts of wacky comments (like, snapback hats looking like severed duck heads, just a little wider). It has a "training" effect to it as well, shifting from scenario to scenario, mostly in relation. I look at photos and point out what they look like (like, if there's an outline that looks like the middle finger, I'll call that out. Although that could be a little Si). I tend to start things, but have trouble finishing them sometimes. Sometimes I even have a possibility in my mind but it takes forever for me to make it come to fruition! I am studying computer networking, and I'm coming up with a lot of ways to help burn this information into my memory (because this will be my job some day, hopefully). Ideas are branching out, from one idea to another, and related ideas forming off of those other ideas, occasionally. I can be pretty creative at photoshop. Sometimes, if I'm not lost in my thoughts, my mind tells me to search for more details in the external world, even if it isn't important (like for example, if I'm in a car and I'm passing by a graveyard, I immediately notice the graves, but I'm driving by and leaving the scene quickly, so my mind tells me to read some of the names or try to notice something else for the hell of it...)
    Yeah, about the only function I think you really nailed correctly here in relation to your own cognition.

    I sometimes tend to skim through details or passages to get a big picture, which can be inaccurate. This is my ADHD speaking for itself, I think.
    Preference towards intuition.
    While I don't always necessarily agree with them, I can be fascinated by labels and why anything is categorized and labeled.
    Sounds like it could be Te.
    I am sometimes interested in people's lives and what people do for a living, mainly to build on my insight for how I feel about people and society, and it also helps me form opinions on people.
    Social instinct imo.
    Sometimes when I'm in conversation with someone and someone explains something obvious to me, I might respond with "Yeah, I know...". I realize this might be rude?
    Sounds like Fi judgement.
    Sometimes I can be impulsive, in the past I was very impulsive (which was anxiety driven) to the point where I would deliberately put myself in dangerous situations (like for example, sticking a knife through an outlet, or measuring how much pressure it would take to break an LCD screen) just to see what would happen.
    Disintegration towards 7 really.

    When I have a lot of thoughts roaming and circulating my mind, I feel so anxious/excited/stimulated and need to move around. The funny thing is, movement generates my thoughts. Another possible ADHD trait?
    Disintegration towards 7.
    Sometimes, when I'm listening to music, images relating to lyrics pop into my mind. However, this isn't automatic; I have to be listening to the lyrics in order for this to occur.
    Si-Ne with a strong visual intelligence/learning style probably.
    I tell myself I'll do or get into something in the future, but I don't do it right away because I feel like shit at the moment, or I'm too lazy, etc. So I guess I'd say I base my short term decisions on how I feel.
    5 avarice logic.
    I don't usually have trouble being decisive, from what I can recall. Maybe sometimes I am?
    If you don't probably judging dominant.
    I could be practical, and I can't recall, but as a kid I may have been, I'm not sure though. My memory is foofy, foggy, and somewhat flawed. But I am a space cadet right now, so when I am in practical situations sometimes I have to let myself settle in and analyze things for a moment or two before getting my hands dirty. It also depends if I'm in the right mindset. Sometimes, I have no idea how to even take something apart, that others can do.
    Sounds like 5 with a preference towards intuition as you seem to reject sensation.[QUOTE]
    I recite passages or external information that stimulates me, in my head.
    Te.

    If someone really pisses me off, or does something very disrespectful in my opinion, I will stop talking to them unless they redeem themselves in my mind. This includes family. (Yeah, I have issues. I know.)
    Fi!!!!!! This is Fi dominance 101 in socionics.
    I'm not too interested in war, world history, and politics.
    In socionics this means a devaluing of Ni and Se for most of the part. Kind of safely puts you in the delta quadra.
    I have anxiety towards things that seem a little "off" to me, like the sound of a voice over the phone, or seeing my reflection in the dark. Also, older technologies sometimes tend to freak me out for some reason, too. I can't pinpoint why for the life of me. I tend to slightly freak out in situations like these. I have been like this ever since I had a dream when I was 4 years old - consisting of me looking at a reflection of myself on a TV screen in the dark, and suddenly a ghost appeared on the TV screen and threatened me.
    5 anxiety fearing the unknown.

    I've usually strived to get to the end result in anything out of curiosity (video games for example), but recently I've learned it's the process that is most important; it tells you exactly HOW you got to the result, and what you need to do to get there. For example, you can be on a road trip from Miami to Los Angeles, and as soon as you reach San Antonio, you could automatically teleport to LA, without knowing how you got there. Sometimes you need to know how you got there in between; in regards to the road trip situation, what if maps became non-existant out of the blue one day?
    This logic you describe here is very, very Te. Process-orientation, finishing products and your thinking is very linear strongly suggesting casual-deterministic cognition. Strong possibility for EII-Ne for you.
    I can imagine my capabilities in the future; and see myself having the ability to come up with all kinds of theories, or forming theories combining information.
    Ne.

    I usually plan my actions or decisions in advance, but I'm always willing to change them.
    5, Te logic.
    Sometimes I need to look at other people's insight or perspectives to recognize the context of a situation. This could be due to my lack of variety of knowledge.
    Sounds like unconscious Te.
    I can become energized by socializing and interacting with the external world (since it can boost my confidence), but I need time alone to contemplate, a lot, and I feel like if I socialize for excessive amounts of time, I might need time alone to recharge (I haven't been in many situations where I have socialized or interacted with the external world excessively). This makes me consider the possibility of being ambiverted.
    Sounds like enneagram 5 with integration towards 8 and the realization that avarice does not help you to preserve your time and energy.
    Sometimes I get so passionate about my thoughts and possibilities, that strong feelings arise from them.
    Fi most likely.
    Whenever something negative happens to me, or when I have negative thoughts, negative possibilities and hypothetical scenarios start branching out in my head.
    6 influence?
    If I'm really depressed, stressed out, or really unhappy with myself, I can go through a withdrawal period (sometimes lasting weeks or months!) where I discern and analyze all of the issues related to my life and contemplate about it, and sometimes come up with ways to possibly fix it, or just wallow in grim conditions until more positive momentum attempts to give me motivation to try and move forward.
    5w4.
    If I really love someone, I would try my hardest to do almost anything for them, like bending over backwards for them (even possibly sacrificing logic in certain situations!)
    Yeah, doesn't denote you being a thinker first if you are willing to sacrifice logic over emotions.
    A nagging part of me is really thirsty for love. It could be just out of curiosity since I've never experienced it before, and my possible intuition tells me it's a really great experience.
    Sounds like sx.

    I have formed many hypothetical situations where I have been in situations consisting of love. In the past, I have actually felt that I would only be content if I just had love, but I was mentally shallow back then.
    More sx reasoning.

    So I do think you're probably right about 5w4 but I'd question whether you are truly sp first. Not much sp to discern in your answers I think. I also think INFP and EII-Ne respectively, and possibly so/sx.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  8. #38
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    That's a pretty heterogeneous group of people to summon. :p

    INTP, I'd say. I relate to most things mentioned.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  9. #39
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Ugh, and I also wanna kill one thing in this thread I'm seeing right now which is SO FUCKING UTRUE: Fi is NOT ABOUT MORALS. Not. about. morals. It's a feeling evaluation of good and bad. What feels good for me. Lenore Thomson's description of Fi is fantastic even though I'd argue it constains a slight NF bias:
    Introverted Feeling (Fi) makes sense of the world by relating everything to universal human needs and callings. For example, understanding the actions of a bully as the expression of an unmet need to be connected and feel important. Understanding that, we can see the bully without judgement: we can see him as a living being not so different from ourselves, seeking to fulfill his needs just as we do, but in a way that creates unnecessary conflict. As an epistemological perspective, Fi leads you to take whatever a person thinks or believes as an expression of that person's unique nature--not to criticize it because it fails to live up to some externally imposed criteria like whether or not it's "logical" or "appropriate". As an ethical perspective, Fi leads you to act out of empathy regardless of the social status or "deservingness" of the beneficiary. Fi leads you to view all living things as equal in value, all needing to thrive in interpersonal harmony without giving up any of their uniqueness.
    Quasi-defining statements

    p. 41: "When we use Feeling in an Introverted way, it operates as a kind of inner flame--a sense of personal values that may be difficult to explain or express directly but whose character informs our choices and inclinations."

    p. 366: "Introverted Feeling ... encourages a personal relationship to an evolving pattern, a will to gauge the situation by an experiential ideal. For example, if we use Introverted Feeling to make a good spaghetti sauce, we won't follow recipes or measure ingredients. We'll sample the sauce as we're making it, gauging its taste, smell, and texture by their ideal outcome and adjusting for circumstantial variables so the emerging pattern stays on track."

    p. 367: "To invoke Introverted Feeling, we have to know the difference between a good outcome and a bad one--know with our senses, in our bones [on the basis of living, breathing, first-hand experience]."

    p. 370: "Introverted Feeling relies on the inward, right-brain criteria of experience and empathy to mark off decisions that go beyond our roles in society to affect us as human beings. Law and custom, after all, are the lowest common denominator of a defined community. We associate character and humane behavior with the moral imperatives shaped by inner values."

    p. 371: "An inner point of reference, one trained by personal experience. [Bypassing matters of social standing] to focus on the quintessentially human."

    Proposed definition #1

    Introverted Feeling (Fi) is the attitude that everything that is manifest (apparent, observable, described) is the expression of a soul or life force, in terms of which everything ultimately makes sense. Everything that happens is the result of a soul expressing its unique nature.

    From this attitude, each living thing is completely unique, and has unique needs. Every living thing needs to express itself and grow in its unique way. None of this can be put into categories or measurements, at least not without blotting out that utter uniqueness of each living thing. Because we are all living things, even though each of us is unique we can still connect to the life force as it exists in others. From an Fi standpoint, the way to respond to things is in a way that is faithful to that underlying life force.

    Proposed definition #2

    Introverted Feeling (Fi) is the attitude of judging things good or bad based on how they harmonize or clash with a living being's inner essence. That inner essence or soul, and how things in the environment get along with it or conflict with it, is knowable only first-hand--ultimately, only by that soul. It is known by attending to one's own emotions in response to things. What you like is good--for you, not necessarily good for others. What you don't like is bad--for you, not necessarily bad for others. Anything outside your own soul is irrelevant to evaluating anything or choosing your course in life.

    As a language of Ego Orientation

    As a Dominant Function, Fi leads IFPs to live a life based on empathy and harmony between self and others--and/or to see life as a never-ending conflict between souls that are intrinsically different and opposed. ISFPs typically seek out a space in which they can be completely and spontaneously themselves, following their artistic impulses without regard to social expectation or definition of any sort. Some do their best to live life as a soap opera: creating and living out intense drama wherever they go. INFPs typically seek to understand the world in terms of drama, emotion, and people seeking their own unique callings (perhaps Garrison Keillor is a good example of that). Some, like John Gray, attempt to help others understand each other through empathy with each other's differences, and thereby find peace and synergy.

    Developed Fi naturally leads people to favor mercy or forgiveness for people who have done heinous acts--anything from theft to murder to genocide--acts that, under the ordinary laws that make a society manageable (see Extraverted Thinking), would usually merit their imprisonment or execution. From a developed Fi perspective, the criminal is still a living soul, still unique and precious despite whatever he may have done. If we walked in his moccasins for a while, maybe we could see it his way. Without condoning his crimes, maybe we could see how we ourselves could have done the same things under similar circumstances. This use of empathy as one's ultimate anchor of orientation leads to a resolute non-judgementalness. First empathize--find something in your own heart that lets you see how someone could feel and act the way he did--and then you will probably find that you no longer feel hatred or a desire for retribution.

    As a Secondary Function, Fi typically leads EFPs to tune into the unmet needs and callings of others--as an avenue to making a sale, as a way to intuit what would entertain people, as a channel to political gain by demonstrating that you understand people's pain (e.g. Bill Clinton), as a way to chart a course through life based on a calling felt to be unique to them. Sometimes it leads them to sense a higher calling to answer to, a sense that their actions have cosmic meaning by virtue of how they aid or hinder life.

    As a Tertiary Function, Fi typically leads ITJs to retreat into solitary actions that have no constructive worldly effect but are aimed at providing a justification for calling themselves good people. Another example is obsession with the purity of one's soul. For example, being a vegetarian while working at Taco Bell--not out of any great love for animals (the person might hardly know anything about what cows are like), but to be able to say, "Well, at least I never ate any animals." Or engaging in pointless acts of honor, like maintaining super-self-control or "doing one's duty" or going down with the ship. Nothing is gained by going down with the ship; it's a hyper-introverted act aimed at providing a rationalization for one's goodness without regard to real-world consequences. Nearly all of these tertiary-Fi acts involve refraining from action viewed as unethical rather than taking positive action that would accomplish something. They're a retreat from the world--or rather, a rationalization for disregarding worldly matters.

    As an Inferior Function, Fi typically leads ETJs to acts of self-destructive hedonism, creation of opera-like drama in their lives and the lives of those around them, obsession with "integrity" (like going down with the ship), instant and irresponsible abandonment of anything they don't like (the opposite of going down with the ship), and bizarre solitary acts of atonement for the harms they've done to others. Sometimes inferior-Fi leads ETJs to preach and even practice a sort of hyper-selfishness, e.g. Ayn Rand and the Landmark Forum. "I'm doing fine, so why should I give a damn about you?" (Very different from highly developed Fi, which leads you to see all people as connected and the highest joy of life as the experience of that connection.)

    Tertiary and inferior Fi also sometimes lead TJs to view large numbers of people as "troglodytes": soulless or stupid creatures whose rotten situations in life derive only from their own intrinsic rottenness-of-soul. To take a comic example, Lex Luthor's lamentation in Superman, "Why is the world's greatest criminal genius surrounded by nincompoops?"

    Perhaps the most typical manifestation of tertiary and inferior Fi is an attitude of psychologizing other people: a sort of pseudo-empathy in which one explains other people's behavior in terms of pitiful needs and psychological flaws that anyone would be ashamed to have. "Notice the defensiveness. He clings desperately to his ideas. Such weakness." (Nearly all psychological theories offer plenty of ammo for psychologizing, including Lenore Thomson's ideas.) Where developed Fi leads you to find something in your own soul in terms of which to truly understand someone else and see things their way, tertiary and inferior Fi typically lead you to find something in your own soul that you despise, in terms of which you can "explain" them and justify putting them down.

    Naturally, you can see plenty of dominant-style Fi in ETJs, secondary-style Fi in IFPs, and so on--even inferior-style Fi in IFPs.

    Introverted feeling is judgement with an emotional slant that causes the individual to view the object on a Subjective level. It is primarily a silent inaccessible function that is difficult to conceptualize. Therefore, unlike its extraverted counterpart, Extraverted Feeling, it is entirely individualistic, with a leaning toward the mystical. Introverted feeling is generally disconnected with typical external stimuli. Introverted feeling is only concerned with the external to the extent that the object has some relevance to a deep, internal value. Its primary objective is to harmonize ideologies, concepts, relationships etc. with the internal guiding force.

    Whatever the individual values the most will dominate the motivations, goals and chief objectives of the individual. For example, if the primary value is God, then all other values will find themselves inexorably subjugated to this primary one. Often, unbalanced introverted feeling will create in the individual dramatic mood swings and decisions based on illogical rationales. However, at its best, introverted feeling provides a navigational quality that creates in the personality tenacity, idealism, honor, relationship wisdom and a unfaltering value system that is seldom compromised.

    Introverted feeling is a counterpart to Extroverted thinking, as are all inferior elements to the dominant. Everyone attempts to accomplish the inferior through the dominant. By following first principles and proverbial logic (Te) i.e. literal proverbs, they accomplish being "good"(Fi). Though the elements look different they simply reverse the horse and carriage. An Fi will look at a business tycoon and blame them for the state of the poor. A Te realizes that simply feeling bad for the poor won't accomplish anything, because you can't take emotions to the bank (a common Te proverb) you need to actually DO something. Even if you don't FEEL for them, building a huge corporation and then donating your equity to charity is worth more than a single person volunteering their entire life. For this reason, even though still hated by a generally large amount of people, Bill Gates (textbook ENTJ according to typology forums) is more effective in donating ~$30 billion to build business around the globe for the poor and promoting philanthro-capitalism than an army of Mother Teresa's.
    Fi dominant 5 signing out.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  10. #40
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Addendum, I want to change to: 5w6 so/sx ENFP ENFP-Ne. Anyway, can you answer this questionnaire?

    http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-...tionnaire.html

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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