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  1. #11
    Junior Member AverOblivious1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Counter-shame is not helping people.... in a 4, it looks like elitism or snobbery. A better way of looking at it is a disintegration to 2 & showing PRIDE. This means pushing an image of being someone of worth, in contrast to the ugliness you feel inside.

    I can see any Fi-dom saying this.

    Secretly wanting flattery/acknowledgement is 4ish. Do you feel good about simply being a part of a process in which something good is accomplished as opposed to receiving recognition for an individual component you bring in?


    Can you think of yourself in an envy-driven way? Again, I don't hear any envy or much image triad stuff at all.
    Were you considering 9 as well? Sometimes shame/self-worth issues without envy and a tendency to help or be good sans fear/guilt or image considerations is a sign of a 9. How do you feel about your own presence in life & around others? How do you deal with negative feelings & conflict?
    Well I at least try to help for the good of a situation itself. I guess I can already see things falling into place and things "Getting better" so I don't really care whether recognition comes or not, - it's really more of a value thing I guess. I'm not sure if I will totally get there.

    That's interesting what you said about the four pushing their image like a 2ish pride. I would lean toward 6 for that reason.

    Yes. I was actually considering 9. Once I got 9 as the highest type on a test.

    Also, this one person I know (who knows me well) said I resembled the 9w1 description out of all the other wings. But then also said recently that I could resemble the 4w3 type from a much shorter description.

    Maybe I could be a 9. Thanks for mentioning. I guess I try to give less of a presence as possible. I can't stand arrogance; like a clear excessive streak is annoying in itself, and if that really stands out in people I could get het up. When I'm around others, I'm pretty observant, but not excessively observant. I like to keep track of what's happening so I'm not too confused (?) or out of it (?), I don't know why really. I do try to keep my clothing and hairstyle and everything at a constant, and not standoutish type. My brother would always go 'why don't you change your hair? your hair makes you look like a dork' and I would go 'the fact that I can keep my hair one way, shows that I don't get carried away with new trends, that come and go'.

    When I see conflict I try to keep my composure, and I try to internally envision a naturally good path to go through and I try to go through with it. Not to say I can't get hostile, I can also get hostile, but usually up to the point if the other side is much more hostile. I only return what people conflict (?) unto me. (Though this could just be INFP Fi values).

    When other people get into an argument, I do what it takes to calm them down and see the situation rationally. It also kind of depends on how conflicting the conflict is, some conflicts are just stone cold and I can feel my heart beat louder and louder and then I just scream out things like "stop", etc. It's the worst when your family gets into a fight, then it's just painful and I don't care I would rather have it stop than anything. I don't know whether this is related to enneagram at all, but I usually base ideas of handling conflict around the "lower" ways I've reacted in the past, like I would always remember how "low" I have gone to stop a conflict (like if I was a kid and I started screaming or crying about it or something). This stuff is hard to explain, so hopefully you understand. And thanks so much btw! I actually thought no one was going to reply for a while.
    'Remember that, like love, resistance to temptation makes the heart grow stronger' - Stephen King

    FiNe, for now.
    Sp/So/Sx

  2. #12
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    I agree with @OrangeAppled. You don't sound like a 4 and 6 seems to fit. I think what you describe as a 2-like desire to help others could be the 6's empathic, responsible, conscientious nature.

    How do you feel about other 6 qualities other than the obvious ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by Personality Type 6
    Generally, Sixes are reliable, hard-working, organizing, vigilant, dutiful, evaluating, persevering, cautious, anxious, believing and doubting, conservative and liberal.

    Sixes get into conflicts by being pessimistic, defensive, evasive, negative, worrying, doubtful, negativistic, reactive, suspicious, and blaming.

    At their best, Sixes are courageous, cooperative, disciplined, grounded, secure, faithful, self-expressive, funny, and affectionate.
    https://sites.google.com/site/upatel8/personalitytype6
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    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  3. #13
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I agree with @OrangeAppled. You don't sound like a 4 and 6 seems to fit. I think what you describe as a 2-like desire to help others could be the 6's empathic, responsible, conscientious nature.

    How do you feel about other 6 qualities other than the obvious ones?



    https://sites.google.com/site/upatel8/personalitytype6
    I'd also vote 6-ish, I think. The OP's original post reminds me a lot of my ISFP 6w7 friend (not that the OP is ISFP). My friend is generally very (quietly) upbeat and optimistic until the suppressed negatives bubble to the surface, then he can become highly suspicious of people's motives, attacking and overly negative. Learning to weather those infrequent blow-ups seems necessary to being a long-term friend of his (at least given where he is today).

    My friend also tends to be helpful, especially to authority figures. Part of it is a means of appearing non-threatening and aligning himself to authority figures so he'll be safe from them (even though he doesn't like to admit that). He's not fawning, but he definitely seeks to get authority figures on his side in order to disarm them in advance. He in generally likes to present as small a target as possible and prefers to fly under the radar whenever he can.

    My friend has occasional fits of paranoia about minor things (suddenly someone has an ulterior motive based on an offhand comment, or his computer must have a virus since it's running slow or acting strangely—never mind the 20 browser tabs he has open). Arguably, some of that might have to do less developed Ni rearing its head in his case... or some such.

    At any rate, he describes suddenly becoming aware of all the stressors he's been repressing, then suddenly becoming negative, suspicious and lashing out. Not sure if that's typical of 6s, but I have seen them described as "at your feet or at your throat" (which I think is harsh, but has a grain of truth to it).

  4. #14
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    ^ Not to throw a wrench into it or confuse the OP more, but 9s disintegrate at 6, and it's noteworthy if he only identifies with 6 during stress, as if it's "out of character" for him. Whereas 6s integrate at 9, and they can show some average 9 traits when average themselves. I see the OP as in the 3-6-9 triad, it's just seeing clearly his core type & which way he integrates/disintegrates....

    Quote Originally Posted by AverOblivious1 View Post
    Maybe I could be a 9. Thanks for mentioning. I guess I try to give less of a presence as possible. I can't stand arrogance; like a clear excessive streak is annoying in itself, and if that really stands out in people I could get het up. When I'm around others, I'm pretty observant, but not excessively observant. I like to keep track of what's happening so I'm not too confused (?) or out of it (?), I don't know why really. I do try to keep my clothing and hairstyle and everything at a constant, and not standoutish type. My brother would always go 'why don't you change your hair? your hair makes you look like a dork' and I would go 'the fact that I can keep my hair one way, shows that I don't get carried away with new trends, that come and go'.

    When I see conflict I try to keep my composure, and I try to internally envision a naturally good path to go through and I try to go through with it. Not to say I can't get hostile, I can also get hostile, but usually up to the point if the other side is much more hostile. I only return what people conflict (?) unto me. (Though this could just be INFP Fi values).

    When other people get into an argument, I do what it takes to calm them down and see the situation rationally. It also kind of depends on how conflicting the conflict is, some conflicts are just stone cold and I can feel my heart beat louder and louder and then I just scream out things like "stop", etc. It's the worst when your family gets into a fight, then it's just painful and I don't care I would rather have it stop than anything. I don't know whether this is related to enneagram at all, but I usually base ideas of handling conflict around the "lower" ways I've reacted in the past, like I would always remember how "low" I have gone to stop a conflict (like if I was a kid and I started screaming or crying about it or something). This stuff is hard to explain, so hopefully you understand. And thanks so much btw! I actually thought no one was going to reply for a while.
    This sounds more 9ish to me over all, but it's hard for me to pick out 9 or phobic 6 as your motivations don't come across as loud & clear. That in itself makes me lean towards 9. I think a 9 or phobic 6 might see the distinction better than I do. CP 6s are easier to type, IMO.

    I know @PeaceBaby & @Mia. are INFP e9s, and I can't think of a phobic e6 Fi-dom offhand, but @SilkRoad seems like a phobic 6.

    The distaste for arrogance or any excessive streak is more 9ish, IMO. It seems to me like 9s desire a kind of egalitarian, merged mass with others, but a frustration of this can lead to feeling outcast, or succeeding in this can lead to giving up too much of themselves. They can have some serious lows because of this, and anger/depression can leak out even as they try to maintain feeling "okay". I think that's why there's some confusion with 4 or even 6.

    I'm wondering why you make a point to be observant with others. 6s tend to keep an eye open for threats or allies, but you mention avoiding a kind of "confusion" or being "out of it" which sounds like the way 9s can have a half-sleep state (ie. their vice is "laziness", referring more to a psychological inertia than physical laziness).

    Your reaction to conflict sounds more 9ish, but then a phobic 6 often looks diplomatic also. 9s seem to have a more universal motive of "keeping the peace", whereas from my viewpoint, 6s seem like they just want to save their own skin, which means they're not above throwing someone under the bus. 9s seem like they'll throw themselves under the bus if necessary, and I get that feeling from you.

    Somehow I think 6s feel more of a presence too, as if others are watching them as much as they are watching others. Their hypervigilance is almost contagious, much as the 4s hyper self-awareness can be contagious, and the 9s laisser-faire attitude can be contagious.

    I've read that 9s can feel invisible and have a conflict over that, not wanting to stand out but also resentment at being ignored (and I think this is shared with 4s, but for different reasons).
    Last edited by OrangeAppled; 02-21-2013 at 08:13 PM. Reason: typo
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #15
    Junior Member AverOblivious1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    ^ Not to throw a wrench into it or confuse the OP more, but 9s disintegrate at 6, and it's noteworthy if he only identifies with 6 during stress, as if it's "out of character" for him. Whereas 6s integrate at 9, and they can show some average 9 traits when average themselves. I see the OP as in the 3-6-9 triad, it's just seeing clearly his core type & which way he integrates/disintegrates....



    This sounds more 9ish to me over all, but it's hard for me to pick out 9 or phobic 6 as your motivations don't come across as loud & clear. That in itself makes me lean towards 9. I think a 9 or phobic 6 might see the distinction better than I do. CP 6s are easier to type, IMO.

    I know @PeaceBaby & @Mia. are INFP e9s, and I can't think of a phobic e6 Fi-dom offhand, but @SilkRoad seems like a phobic 6.

    The distaste for arrogance or any excessive streak is more 9ish, IMO. It seems to me like 6s desire a kind of egalitarian, merged mass with others, but a frustration of this can lead to feeling outcast, or succeeding in this can lead to giving up too much of themselves. They can have some serious lows because of this, and anger/depression can leak out even as they try to maintain feeling "okay". I think that's why there's some confusion with 4 or even 6.

    I'm wondering why you make a point to be observant with others. 6s tend to keep an eye open for threats or allies, but you mention avoiding a kind of "confusion" or being "out of it" which sounds like the way 9s can have a half-sleep state (ie. their vice is "laziness", referring more to a psychological inertia than physical laziness).

    Your reaction to conflict sounds more 9ish, but then a phobic 6 often looks diplomatic also. 9s seem to have a more universal motive of "keeping the peace", whereas from my viewpoint, 6s seem like they just want to save their own skin, which means they're not above throwing someone under the bus. 9s seem like they'll throw themselves under the bus if necessary, and I get that feeling from you.

    Somehow I think 6s feel more of a presence too, as if others are watching them as much as they are watching others. Their hypervigilance is almost contagious, much as the 4s hyper self-awareness can be contagious, and the 9s laisser-faire attitude can be contagious.

    I've read that 9s can feel invisible and have a conflict over that, not wanting to stand out but also resentment at being ignored (and I think this is shared with 4s, but for different reasons).
    this is really interesting. I did not think I would be a type 9. But I was just laughing my way through the enneagraminstitute description. It seemed like the sort of thing I was doing with enneagram itself. I was skimming through the post and not really paying attention to what was actually being said. I felt stuck, like stuck in a rut, when I actually had to troubleshoot the issues the text said. And I think that's more of a psychological inertia than a general fear or skepticism.

    I would throw myself under a bus if it 'kept the peace'. But that would let a lot of people down, so I will not and couldn't think of it. The thing about type 6 is that if I'm not skeptical, I'm not always loyal. I could just feel alone. I can't really relate to envy/jealousy either as core fixations (even though I get the feeling of shame very often). I get what you mean about type sixes and watching others. That's not really a fixation of mine. Other people can have motives, it's their right to. It's just that if their motives were bad, things will be bad, and that is kinda scary, but it's not usually on the tip of my nose. The thing with me is that, sometimes I don't doubt things enough.

    9s are pretty complacent so I farred away from it for a while. I thought I was a type 1 for a while as well. So I'm guessing I'm leaning towards 9w1. The complacency is something it takes a while to notice in me, but I think it is there.

    I especially could relate to the separation of father-mother figures to the separation of inner peace. I can relate to the concept of inner and outer peace, and that's really interesting if that is my core. The instance where I chased those older figures around with a pole or something for threatening to burn down my car, may have been the same type of translation.

    To be honest, one thing that set me a bit off track was the contagious thing you said, I would say my general fearful nature is pretty contagious and that can upset people, (when I'm stressed or put on the spot I mean).I don't think I set much of a real presence for anyone to get infected with anything... but is that what it means by feeling invisible, etc?
    'Remember that, like love, resistance to temptation makes the heart grow stronger' - Stephen King

    FiNe, for now.
    Sp/So/Sx

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