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  1. #11
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I don't see you as an E at all..

    First impression, I went through the four ixfx. Fi seems more likely, more focused on lots of inward feelings/ subjective decisions based on current thoughts. Went through an INFJ considerations for reasons that I'm not sure about... maybe i'm seeing a little feelery Ni thing going on, or just the anxious feeling. First crack at it, FiSeNi, isfp.
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  2. #12
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    I know what you mean. However, I've noticed ESFPs are uncomfortable being someone else's buzz-kill, even if the concern doesn't extend as far typical FJs' (i.e. wanting to take care of other people, wanting to include everyone, etc.) I'll go back and re-read the original post, but when I first read it, the OP struck me as more FP than FJ.
    I agree; he's either ISFP or ESFP. I would try reasoning why ESFPs are the way you described them, but I've had a bad history with ESFPs, so I think anything I say will be caused by my feelings towards them and probably not very sound logically.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

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  3. #13
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    tl;dr: your likely an IxFJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by tine5 View Post
    4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?
    It would depend how I felt about them and how I felt in myself at the time. I would imagine I'd be quite reserved about it if I wasn't 100% sure I could make my point understood. If I felt I could I'd say something like "Well I heard *** from *** and it makes sense right?" to show them they may be wrong.
    that was the first thing that came off very FJish too me:

    "if i wasn't 100 sure i could make my point understood"
    the ingrained assumption is that if your friend's beliefs clashes with you, its not that you could be wrong, it's that she doesn't understand or hasn't thought about the point you have to make. that in itself is very J, but then we add "to show them they may be right", in other words, while your internal belief would be that they are wrong, the message you would rather communicate is that they might be wrong, possibly because doing so directly would be rude or have the potential for conflict. that strong sense of division between the idea and what you want communicated in regards to it is very much a staple of Fe, and Fe users who are Js are FJs. and how do you plan on doing that, "i heard x from y", or in other words, by appealing to a source's credibility.


    Quote Originally Posted by tine5 View Post
    5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?
    I get very anxious if my routine is disturbed. I find myself feeling lost and trying to come up with a way to exist in the situation and a way to cope. I tend to get more flutered, maybe even upset, and try and return things to how they were if I can. If soemthing clashes with my beliefs I can get very upset or aggressive, depending on what it is. If anyone tried to hurt an animal near me I'd probably have to stop myself from attacking them physically and just talk to them about it (probably angrily).
    that strong desire for routine and being anxious when it gets disturbed is again a staple of Js, a general sense that if your life isn't organized on the outside you loose your sense of organization on the inside. your suggested reactions (upset or aggressive) as well as your example, suggest that you interpreted the question as "someone doing something that goes against your beliefs" rather then "something providing evidence that your beliefs are wrong". this to me again suggests FJ - your mind very much resides in the world of people.


    Quote Originally Posted by tine5 View Post
    6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?
    I love animals and nature and my family and look for honesty in people. I don't think anyone could change my core values, but with my less personal values they could be changed if I was convinced otherwise or saw something that went against it.
    while it is entirely possible for an Fi user to have a high value in honesty, it is often nearly impossible to find an Fe user who doesn't (and not because we're particularly good at it mind you). a deep seeded desire for something more genuine, more true, a frustration with a sense that most things aren't, is a common theme for all xxFJs and xxTPs alike (all Fe users). Fi users i've known have a much stronger and more balanced relationship with what is very true and genuine to them (their Fi itself), which to some extent quells that desire and need to seek it in others. animals can go either or - its not just any value, but a value of compassion and empathy.


    Quote Originally Posted by tine5 View Post
    7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?
    a) I guess I'm good at making jokes and looking on the positive side of things, as well as being able to think on my feet.
    b) I'd like to be more outgoing so I could do more and see more and be more normal I guess (people always get surprised I don't go out to things that much which makes me feel bad).
    again, the later part is very much an FJ reaction - your basically expressing a desire to meet others expectations of you better.

    Quote Originally Posted by tine5 View Post
    3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?
    I'd go, seeing as they drove me there so I'd kind of owe them. I'd not really want to go (I'm not big on drinking/loud places etc) but I'd probably enjoy it when I got there (I always build things up to seem horrible when they never turn out to be that bad).
    this repeats the pattern - while an fi user might have some principle of fairness in stake, for you its a sociological circumstance - you feel like you owe them. a state within the world of fe.

    i generally get the sense that your introverted, withdrawn and reserves. thus IxFJ. i have no idea if your an INFJ or an ISFJ, simply there's not enough information to go by, but i will say that statistically, if its completely unknown, the chances of being an ISFJ are much higher then the chances of being an INFJ.

    i would also ask you to not be biased on those based on the stereotypes - many might be inclined to pick INFJ because it's more "unique" rather then because the type actually works for them, which is BS (if someone needs a unique type to make them unique they probably aren't), and in addition, the descriptions and conceptions of sensors vs. intuitives here framed in such a way that is often interpreted as "if you have any intellect and half a brain you must be an N", which is not only extremely unhealthy for the dynamics between types, its also bluntly wrong. Also, you might see many threads against whichever type you might think you are (right now anti-INFJ is the trend but anti-ISFJ is more often the norm), keep in mind that every type has that in roves - this is simply the nature of this community.

    keep your eyes on the goal - finding out your actual type and figuring out the resulting growth patterns and resulting intercommunication problems and differences in thought patterns in your life is going to be a lot more useful for you then socially associating yourself with any given type as a group can be. if you are an IxFJ, then the focus of the remaining question is if you have Si & Ne (ISFJ) or Ni & Se (INFJ).

  4. #14
    Member tine5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    More exactly Fe, and that's the problem I had: his general concern for people in his environment is more of an Fe thing, but one always crosses between functions (thus Fe will go into Fi, Te into Ti, Se into Ne, and Ni into Si - and vice versa), so that you'll see quite a bit of crossing over when the function is really strong.

    One thing you've left out, Tine5, is how you are with people. I mean, do you generally enjoy your own little space, and, though you want to spend time with friends and such, you don't mind being alone, or is the opposite true? I've noticed one interesting thing which can be used to distinguish extroverts and introverts: when you're left to your own - you could have people around you, but you're not talking to them - do you interact with the environment around you and look around, or do you stare blankly into space deep in thought? Both will do these things, but the former is the product of an extroverted function - and, hence, extroverts will do it more - and the latter is that of an introverted function - so introverts are more prone to it.
    I need time alone but also like seeing people.
    An example: I was with my family all Christmas day and by the time 5pm came around I was anxious and had to go and sit in my room by myself with no noise or anything. The final thing to drive me away from people was the fact the TV was on loud with riverdance music (which is very lively). I was fine after having around an hours break and came back down and read and watched films and played card games.
    I mostly felt the need to go downstairs and see people because I felt my mum would be upset if I didn't. She's a very giving person and says she wants me to be happy etc, but I still feel guilty doing things I want that go against her like that (not to say I never go against her, we do have arguments and everything, but I hate them and get very confused and anxious).

    With friends I'm happy to see them outside of my home, but in my home I feel a bit trapped. I like meeting them outside so I can leave when I want to, whereas if they're at my house I couldn't make them leave (I hate being pushy with people). I do like seeing them, but if I have work to do I'd prefer to do that and then see them after my brain had a rest. I don't mind them coming over if it's for something like New Year's but I always want them gone the next morning (instead of kicking them out I make them breakfast and then say I need to tidy up so they'll leave).
    The indoors, oh God the indoors!

  5. #15
    Member tine5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    tl;dr: your likely an IxFJ.



    that was the first thing that came off very FJish too me:

    "if i wasn't 100 sure i could make my point understood"
    the ingrained assumption is that if your friend's beliefs clashes with you, its not that you could be wrong, it's that she doesn't understand or hasn't thought about the point you have to make. that in itself is very J, but then we add "to show them they may be right", in other words, while your internal belief would be that they are wrong, the message you would rather communicate is that they might be wrong, possibly because doing so directly would be rude or have the potential for conflict. that strong sense of division between the idea and what you want communicated in regards to it is very much a staple of Fe, and Fe users who are Js are FJs. and how do you plan on doing that, "i heard x from y", or in other words, by appealing to a source's credibility.




    that strong desire for routine and being anxious when it gets disturbed is again a staple of Js, a general sense that if your life isn't organized on the outside you loose your sense of organization on the inside. your suggested reactions (upset or aggressive) as well as your example, suggest that you interpreted the question as "someone doing something that goes against your beliefs" rather then "something providing evidence that your beliefs are wrong". this to me again suggests FJ - your mind very much resides in the world of people.




    while it is entirely possible for an Fi user to have a high value in honesty, it is often nearly impossible to find an Fe user who doesn't (and not because we're particularly good at it mind you). a deep seeded desire for something more genuine, more true, a frustration with a sense that most things aren't, is a common theme for all xxFJs and xxTPs alike (all Fe users). Fi users i've known have a much stronger and more balanced relationship with what is very true and genuine to them (their Fi itself), which to some extent quells that desire and need to seek it in others. animals can go either or - its not just any value, but a value of compassion and empathy.



    again, the later part is very much an FJ reaction - your basically expressing a desire to meet others expectations of you better.


    this repeats the pattern - while an fi user might have some principle of fairness in stake, for you its a sociological circumstance - you feel like you owe them. a state within the world of fe.

    i generally get the sense that your introverted, withdrawn and reserves. thus IxFJ. i have no idea if your an INFJ or an ISFJ, simply there's not enough information to go by, but i will say that statistically, if its completely unknown, the chances of being an ISFJ are much higher then the chances of being an INFJ.

    i would also ask you to not be biased on those based on the stereotypes - many might be inclined to pick INFJ because it's more "unique" rather then because the type actually works for them, which is BS (if someone needs a unique type to make them unique they probably aren't), and in addition, the descriptions and conceptions of sensors vs. intuitives here framed in such a way that is often interpreted as "if you have any intellect and half a brain you must be an N", which is not only extremely unhealthy for the dynamics between types, its also bluntly wrong. Also, you might see many threads against whichever type you might think you are (right now anti-INFJ is the trend but anti-ISFJ is more often the norm), keep in mind that every type has that in roves - this is simply the nature of this community.

    keep your eyes on the goal - finding out your actual type and figuring out the resulting growth patterns and resulting intercommunication problems and differences in thought patterns in your life is going to be a lot more useful for you then socially associating yourself with any given type as a group can be. if you are an IxFJ, then the focus of the remaining question is if you have Si & Ne (ISFJ) or Ni & Se (INFJ).
    Thanks! I wouldn't go against being an Si or Ni user (I have friends who use Si and are lovely and an Ni using twin sister). I was wondering how you'd tell the difference?
    The indoors, oh God the indoors!

  6. #16
    Member tine5's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the insights If anyone needs to ask any questions or has any more input that'd be great!
    The indoors, oh God the indoors!

  7. #17
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tine5 View Post
    I need time alone but also like seeing people.
    An example: I was with my family all Christmas day and by the time 5pm came around I was anxious and had to go and sit in my room by myself with no noise or anything. The final thing to drive me away from people was the fact the TV was on loud with riverdance music (which is very lively). I was fine after having around an hours break and came back down and read and watched films and played card games.
    I mostly felt the need to go downstairs and see people because I felt my mum would be upset if I didn't. She's a very giving person and says she wants me to be happy etc, but I still feel guilty doing things I want that go against her like that (not to say I never go against her, we do have arguments and everything, but I hate them and get very confused and anxious).

    With friends I'm happy to see them outside of my home, but in my home I feel a bit trapped. I like meeting them outside so I can leave when I want to, whereas if they're at my house I couldn't make them leave (I hate being pushy with people). I do like seeing them, but if I have work to do I'd prefer to do that and then see them after my brain had a rest. I don't mind them coming over if it's for something like New Year's but I always want them gone the next morning (instead of kicking them out I make them breakfast and then say I need to tidy up so they'll leave).
    Ok, then I'm certain you're introverted. However, I can't really decide on whether you use Fe or Fi; maybe I was wrong about Fi, as it seems your mostly concerned with what others think of your actions rather than your master-morality (meaning deeply-held moral code, not the Nietzschean definition). In that case, you're probably ISFJ.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by tine5 View Post
    Thanks for all the insights If anyone needs to ask any questions or has any more input that'd be great!
    how often do you have a sense that the true intentions of other people around you are not what they seem? if/when this happens, does it shock you with dishonesty, or do you get a sense that it's completely normal and everyone's doing it? when hidden, how confident are you that you know their true intentions?

    what kind of family do you come form (single parent, two dads/moms, traditional, ciblings, etc)? how influential do you think it was in your life, and in what ways?

    do you often feel that people around you fail to get the signals your trying to convey? if so, does it mean that they don't get the obvious, that they don't care, or that they aren't as close to you as you thought? how easy or difficult do you find it to communicate your deepest and perhaps most personal thoughts to people around you? can you give us examples of miscommunications that you've had with people close to you?

    can you tell us about some aspects of your childhood that you are grateful for, and perhaps would like to give your own children one day, and aspects of your childhood that you wouldn't. how do you envision your own future, and where do you feel the inspiration comes from?

  9. #19
    Member tine5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    how often do you have a sense that the true intentions of other people around you are not what they seem? if/when this happens, does it shock you with dishonesty, or do you get a sense that it's completely normal and everyone's doing it? when hidden, how confident are you that you know their true intentions?
    I tend to find myself either suspicious straight away for no reason, or very accepting until they do something that hurts me (usually the latter, I've only had two people I've met and immediately realised would mess with me). I get very hurt and shocked by dishonesty, I like to think people will try and be straight with me because I generally try to be with them. I never really understand my intentions, but I can realise them after the event has occurred. I tend to go "I did that because...." and find it out. Then again, other times I'll either know straight away or never figure it out.

    what kind of family do you come form (single parent, two dads/moms, traditional, ciblings, etc)? how influential do you think it was in your life, and in what ways?
    I have a mum who raised me and my twin sister in our house and my dad lived separately but I felt very close to him. He then turned out to be an alcoholic and I refused to see him because it scared/confused/upset me and my mum and sister. Then he eventually got cancer and passed away and only at the funeral did I realise just how upset I was and how much I missed him. I think my mum influenced me by being very outspoken about her likes/dislikes which made me feel I needed to think the same (for example I was reading a book my mum and sister said they loved and couldn't get into it, so I wondered what was wrong with me). Being a twin definitely affected me, but making me have cycles of trying to get away and then being clingy and not wanting to be without her. She suffered from depression around the time I was with an abusive boyfriend (I developed with PTSD symptoms which didn't help) and I always felt the need to protect her and be there for her.
    I generally have a sense of sticking with my family no matter what, even if I really, deep down, want to do my own thing and be separate. I feel horrible guilt for even thinking about doing my own thing and not thinking about what they would do. An example is I went out on time at New Year's to a friend's and my mum and sister stayed home. I felt horrible and guilty and kept giving them suggestions for what they could do while I was gone and kept wondering if it was okay for me to do that or if I should stay, even though both of them were fine with me going.


    do you often feel that people around you fail to get the signals your trying to convey? if so, does it mean that they don't get the obvious, that they don't care, or that they aren't as close to you as you thought? how easy or difficult do you find it to communicate your deepest and perhaps most personal thoughts to people around you? can you give us examples of miscommunications that you've had with people close to you?
    I tend to accidentally offend certain people (especially one friend who's very different from me. I said he was normal, meaning it as a really good thing because it is to me, and he was really angry). I find people misunderstand me generally because I either say something in the wrong way or they don't understand what I'm trying to say because it doesn't work in their minds (like my INTJ twin sister saying she didn't get why I was hurt by someone and why, when another person did a similar thing, I was fine with it. I said I had no idea, it was just how I felt). I find I can't express my inner feeling easily. I get scared, upset, frustrated with myself and so on. I don't like sharing deep feelings unless the other person shares there's first, but I can share superficial feeling and worries very easily (which usually makes people feel closer to me). I seem to miscommunicate with my mum because she doesn't listen properly/assumes things and because I explain in a way that's hard to understand (I find when I explain personal things I get anxious and can't speak properly).

    can you tell us about some aspects of your childhood that you are grateful for, and perhaps would like to give your own children one day, and aspects of your childhood that you wouldn't. how do you envision your own future, and where do you feel the inspiration comes from?
    I loved having such a caring mum who encouraged me to get into reading, art and so on. I also was happy with the fact I generally get on well with my family and they're all quite supportive most of the time (they were very good when I was diagnosed and are still helping me which makes me really happy, but when I let them down with the eating disorder I feel horrible. Today I nearly panicked over a food-related thing and then felt terrible afterwards and didn't know why I was so weird etc). I'm happy we've always had animals in the house too. I feel very safe and comfortable around animals, so having pets really helped me and encouraged my love of nature and living creatures (leading to my degree in conservation). I don't remember too much of my childhood, but I'd never want anyone to experience an abusive relationship, eating disorder, co-dependency, bullying, insomnia, anxiety attacks etc that I have over the years.
    I'd like to think of myself living in Canada or Australia with pets (cats, dogs, tortoises etc). I'd like to be with a partner and maybe have kids if I was ready and had a good job. I'd love to have a job that let me travel and make a difference around the world (I want to help animals and ecosystems etc). I'd like my family to be close by and be able to have them visit or visit them on holidays. I think my inspiration come from reading, talking to people, watching nature documentaries, maybe some religious aspects (I'm kind of Buddhist/Shamanistic ish, but don't feel I'm part of it even though I'd like to be, but it scares me a bit too because my family aren't into any of that and people can be very against certain things like that). I also was influence a lot by my mum and people around me when it came to my idea for a job. I quit the idea of becoming a lawyer, psychiatrist, journalist, photographer, set designer, doctor etc because people told me it was too hard or I wouldn't like it. It took me years before I settled on going into animal science.
    Thanks again for all the replies. I put my answers in bold so it's easier to follow.
    The indoors, oh God the indoors!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tine5 View Post
    Thanks again for all the replies. I put my answers in bold so it's easier to follow.
    the relationship with your family - a sense of owing and perhaps debt towards them and feeling guilty for desiring independence from them - suggests to me an interaction of Si & Fe, you live in a world of people, and the past is as present for you as the present. the surprise with dishonesty, as apposed to the expectation of it or belief that it's persistently there to some degree or another, suggests a lack of Ni-Fe. most standing out of all is the compliment of being normal... a thought which is not only very SJ-ish, but the closest thing INFJs i know would get would be "skilled at appearing normal", and in itself is almost impossible to imagine an INFJ think such a thought.

    my verdict would be that you are almost certainly an ISFJ.

    warning: expect a lot of people here calling you "mom".

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