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  1. #11
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pushbeat View Post
    First, J and P are on a scale. You may score 50/50 in general. If so, there is a problem interpreting the whole system. But you can check you preference for Ni (INTJ's dominant function) and Ne (INTP's supporting function) for instance here.

    And remenber, other people will always see more of your extraverted side, so you have to filter feedback with this in mind.

    I have a question for you: if you are in a discussion, would you bring up controversial points even if you are not really sure about them? Just testing your own logic. Or would you prevent to bring such ideas forward and keep your thoughts in your head until you are pretty sure about what you are saying?
    Interesting question. It depends on the company. With people who are interested in tossing around ideas and testing them out, I'm more adventurous in putting up incomplete ideas for consideration. With people I consider judgmental or close-minded, I won't speak up unless I'm certain I have a strong case on all fronts.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  2. #12
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    The difference between INTP and INTJ is rather immense, cognative function wise. You don't simply balance inbetween them and get away with it!

    Anyway, your posts are quite un-perceiver-ish.

    If there is any doubt about your type, it is not in the P/J dichotomy as far as I can tell based on what you've presented in this thread.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #13
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    How well do you understand what I mean when I say metaperspectivize?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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  5. #15
    Member Pushbeat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Interesting question. It depends on the company. With people who are interested in tossing around ideas and testing them out, I'm more adventurous in putting up incomplete ideas for consideration. With people I consider judgmental or close-minded, I won't speak up unless I'm certain I have a strong case on all fronts.
    Allright, testing controversial points (and even bring them forward as true) would indicate INTP. The other one INTJ. It may be that your Judging and Perceiving are more or less the same. I have this same issue. The cognitive processes I use, make more sense to me than the rigid order of MBTI anyway.

  6. #16
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Nicodemus, thank you for that link! I'm definitely a "J" by this video's description. (Even though doing something as mundane as cleaning a closet would frustrate me. I hate the mundane. That's the only reason I keep things in my apartment organized: so I don't have to make a "day" to do that nonsense. I don't swear fealty to Order the way so many other sites describe Js doing.)
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  7. #17
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Zarathustra, thank you for your participation.

    From the meaning of the pieces of the term, I'd have to guess you're referring to something along the lines of looking down upon perspectives, without feeling loyal to any particular one.

    If we've typed our variant instincts correctly, though, something we have to bear in mind is that we'll be two very different varieties of INTJ. (Assuming that's my type.) I've seen SX-dominance described as "inner awareness", whereas SO is "interpersonal and outer awareness", which would have an impact on how we engage "Te".
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  8. #18
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    If there is any doubt about your type, it is not in the P/J dichotomy as far as I can tell based on what you've presented in this thread.
    Fluffywolf, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I was just hoping you could expand on this.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  9. #19
    Member Folderol's Avatar
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    You are way more INTJ from what I read. You seem more direct and "get things done". That whole part about: "people at work insist on coming to me to get my opinion when decisions need to be made". Nobody would EVER do that for me. There are lots of situations where I could make decisions, but in general I would never decide for somebody else concretely, always give them a probable course of action unless I was 100% sure of myself.

    Another thing, I don't know if you them or not, but it's better to learn the individual congnitive functions instead of just the 4 letters. The difference isn't just J/P (INTJ vs INTP), it's Ni+Te+Fi+Se vs Ti+Ne+Si+Fe. If you notice, they don't use any of the same individual functions. Of course they are both NT, so they can appear similar on the surface.

  10. #20
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Fluffywolf, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I was just hoping you could expand on this.



    When I talk about perceiver here, I'm specifically targeting the INTP:



    - It irritates me that I haven't been able to decide on one or the other, but I also don't want to jump to conclusions. I sometimes worry I'll never decide one way or the other, since we're always discovering new facets of our own personalities. Unless we suck.
    Maybe more meant as a joke, but if this is truely how you feel: J


    - I don't mind deadlines, I'm always punctual, and I keep my office and apartment organized.
    J


    - On my days off I'd rather not have anything in particular planned.
    Doesn't say anything in particular. Except that is does hint at that there are many times you do want to have things planned: J


    - I have no problem delegating tasks at work, and I think I'm a reasonable judge of character. I can usually get a good "feel" on the kind of person someone is within a few minutes of meeting and talking with them.
    A perceiver can also delegate quite well, but has to do quite some work for it. They can mull over the tiniest factors because of minor doubts. To have no problem at all delegating suggests J.


    - I'm a MAJOR pedant and learning to keep my mouth shut when people say things that are not factual is something I still struggle with.
    J, a perceiver might not like it either, but they'll have a much easier time keeping their mouths shut about it.


    - I notice immediately when someone's argument or statement is not consistent, with no effort. The inconsistencies irritate me, like someone is eating with his mouth open right into my brain's ear.
    J, a perceiver might even find it a challenge to try and convince the other people of their inconsitencies, but unless that person is someone very close to them that they deeply respect, such character fallacies are unlikely to actually irritate a perceiver.


    - I'm extremely dismissive toward emotional people. I have a friend who I think is a likely candidate for INFJ. I admire his intelligence, but I just don't even bother seeing movies with that guy anymore since he always wants to talk about these "human" themes and characters' relationships with one another and blah blah blah wish I could change the channel in real life.
    Says more about personal biased preference, and dismissiveness towards emotional people can exist in both INTP's and INTJ's in a wide variety of ways.


    - I think fiction is boring.
    J


    - I sound like a real asshole right now, but in day-to-day life people tend to find me unassuming and easy to get along with. (So far as I can tell.)
    Doesn't say much.


    - I enjoy learning more than anything, but I do like opportunities to demonstrate what I've learned through creation or practice.
    I think everyone enjoys to learn to some extent, but the latter is more consistent with J people.


    - Schopenhauer (almost certainly an INTJ) is my favorite philosopher, and if I'd been born to wealth and didn't have to worry about being nice and getting along with people, I'd probably be just like him. (Except the misogyny part. Also he could have stood to ratchet down the righteous indignation a few notches.)
    Yeah. Doesn't say anything in particular about you. Just that you resonate with him on some personal level. But you don't have to have all that much in common with someone to really resonate with them, sometimes a few similar ideas can do the trick.


    - I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaate exercise, but do it anyway. I'm in slightly-above-average shape.
    Can be both INTJ's and INTP's, but does imply intuitiveness.


    - I can make decisions fairly easily and for some reason people at work insist on coming to me to get my opinion when decisions need to be made even though I've told everyone repeatedly I'm not a manager and they don't need to okay things with me. I don't even work full time, since I'm also attending university. Again.
    Just means you do well in your profession. Although it does imply a more J like character, I myself experience this as well just because I have the expertise through experience in my line of work.


    -------------------

    So, a lot of points for J, not so many for P.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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