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  1. #1
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    Default Hope some people like bullet points...

    This will be a VERY long post, but I'll do my best to keep it in list form to make it more readable.

    First, let me say that I have no bias toward any type - I don't "want" to be a particular type, just want to know which type is the best fit for me - so I'll do my best to lay everything out objectively, starting with preferences, then with functions, and finally with overall descriptions. Any feedback is appreciated.

    E vs I

    E:

    -I talk more than I listen
    -I like bouncing ideas off of people
    -I love family gatherings and love to joke around and get a response

    I:

    -I hate meeting new people and would prefer to be approached by others
    -I can be something of a homebody
    -I need my alone time (take long baths, go for long drives...)

    N vs S

    N:

    -Love theory and philosophy
    -Not generally aware of my environment
    -Have ideas and opinions that are uncommon (especially among people I know)
    -Have a decent amount of insight
    -Not good with detail
    -Daydream/Zone out a lot

    S:

    -Excellent memory for facts such as dates (although terrible visual memory - can't describe a place I've been a million times, can't recognize faces...)
    -Generally grounded and trust what is demonstrably true
    -Like stereotypical "S" activities like sports, amusement parks, etc...
    -Love history and relate to the past more than the future (including a nostalgia streak)
    -Prefer reading nonfiction and even reference books to fiction
    -I have no idea what it would be like to have an "aha" moment as some of the function descriptions describe

    T vs. F

    T:

    -Good with logic
    -Usually pretty opinionated
    -Love debate
    -Don't like expressing emotion and don't usually know how to deal with people who do
    -Automatically see things objectively

    F:

    -Although I see things objectively, I don't always make the objective decision
    -Strong values system
    -Don't care as much about efficiency
    -Generally want to get along with people I don't know very well (although I can be pretty argumentative when I'm comfortable enough around someone)
    -Not good with money

    P/J:

    P:

    -Don't like commitments or scheduling
    -Appear pretty laid back - especially (counterintuitively) in a work environment
    -Usually a messy desk - though I do go on organization kicks
    -Have an anti-authoritarian streak
    -Indifferent to rules/laws

    J:

    -Like long-term plans (more like life goals than datebook type plans)
    -Like to have control of my universe
    -Believe things "should" be a certain way and get frustrated when things don't go that way
    -Like closure and certainty
    -Can be (in the not totally off-base words of my husband) critical and pessimistic
    -Annoyed by hedonism (sounds funny, I know)

    Functions:

    Se:

    -Excellent hand-eye coordination
    -Love the feeling of riding in my convertible
    -Love playing and watching (some) sports

    But...

    -Never notice my surroundings
    -Very little appreciation for art
    -Not exactly a "free spirit" type

    Si:

    -Can be pessimistic
    -Identify with the past
    -Excellent memory for specific facts
    -Identify with SJ values such as justice, loyalty, etc...

    But...

    -Very little eye for detail
    -Have many outside-the-box ideas
    -Don't care about authority or rank/status
    -Don't always have the follow through
    -Love to daydream

    Ne:

    -Love debating and discussing ideas
    -Like connecting concepts
    -Often use analogies when I speak

    But...

    -Not usually optimistic
    -Usually zero in on one or two concepts rather than feeling the need to explore many areas

    Ni:

    -Have a long-term vision and a definite worldview
    -Develop ideologies and ideas that are built over a long period of time and don't often fit in with more established ideas

    But...

    -Nothing mystical about it (no aha moment)
    -Generally, my ideas still resemble real life - I'm not the most imaginative person

    Te:

    -Opinionated
    -Like things organized - even if I don't always do it
    -Like logic

    But...

    -Not career oriented
    -Not good with money
    -More friendly than bossy (usually)

    Ti:

    -Very analytical
    -Love categories and internal logic

    But...

    -Often feel like I perceive things internally and apply order externally

    Fe:

    -I want to be liked
    -Usually friendly
    -Feel uncomfortable when I think someone has a bad impression of me

    But...

    -Love debate
    -Not expressive or touchy-feely
    -Not good with empathy

    Fi:

    -Strong internal values system
    -Often make judgments based on what I think is "right"

    But...

    -I'm not obsessed with my own emotions
    -Usually pretty grounded and emotionally stable

    Overall temperament and type descriptions:

    SJ:

    -Identify most strongly with the SJ values

    But...

    -My SJ beliefs are more cerebral than actual (i.e. I "believe" in loyalty and duty, but that's more of a conclusion I've reached rather than a natural way of being)

    Of the SJs, I can best identify with the ESTJ - opinionated and sometimes critical, likes family gatherings, etc...

    NF:

    -Definitely an idealist

    But...

    -Very skeptical about human nature

    Of the NFs, I can best identify with the ENFJ or INFJ - strong vision for the future and a definiteness about getting there

    NT:

    -Love ideas and theories

    But...

    -I don't measure my worth by my intellect
    -Don't have a drive to make everything "rational"

    None of the type descriptions fit me very well here... maybe xNTJ? Although INTP could fit a little also

    SP:

    -Can be a procrastinator
    -Enjoy a lot of SP activities
    -Like to improvise
    -Can have an explosive temper

    But...

    -Again, not a free spirit
    -Don't have a lot of SP beliefs

    Of the SPs, I probably identify most with ISTP - enjoy making my own rules, excellent hand-eye coordination, etc...

    Again, sorry for the length of the post - this is something I've been saving up to write for months. Any help or insight appreciated (beyond responses based on the tone or layout of this post rather than the content). Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Member Acerbusvenator's Avatar
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    Default

    I get a feeling of ESTJ from you.
    A lot of Te at least...
    I used to be an NP like you, but then I took an arrow to the Ne.

  3. #3
    WALMART
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    Lol, aren't all NF's skeptical of human nature?


    I really don't know. Probably not an F type. Probably an E type. S/N might be a little blurred. I'm leaning towards J over P.


    EXTJ.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    Default

    So, 2 votes for extj so far. Could be.

    Best i can do is compare myself to other types i know. My husband is an entp and the descriptions fit him well. Compared to me, he's much more quick witted and has a more general interest in all kinds of knowledge. He's excellent at trivia and crossword puzzles and is more hedonistic than i am. My memory is much better than his and i generally have more original opinions/ideas that are less likely to have been influenced by people around me. He is more likely to come around to my perspective than i am to his. We both love history, politics, and baseball. He likes fantasy books and movies which are not my thing. I'm more diplomatic than he is but he's more fun than i am. Neither one of us is good with follow through.

    My mother is almost certainly an infp (she tests as infj sometimes). She is much better than i am at dealing with difficult emotions and identifying with outcasts. She is also much more prone to depression and often relives traumas she has experienced. While she is interpersonally brilliant, she has more trouble with logic than i do. We both love to discuss sociological concepts but have very different ways of dealing with problems in our lives ( she tends to indulge negative emotions while i become very private and try to come up with solutions). Also, she loves reading fiction and memoirs - i like books on history and political philosophy.

    You can see why this is difficult for me...

  5. #5
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    i was thinking enfj actually second for for entj third vote for estj

    you strike me either as analytical and overemphasizing that point or enfj who has your shit together which is not so rare imo
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    Heh - i dont always have my shit together, but point taken. There are certainly enfj traits (and entj and estj) traits i can relate to.

  7. #7
    Senior Member burymecloser's Avatar
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    Tough to say with so many points and counterpoints -- you don't have an inclination on any of these? But based on the information you've provided, I'm very skeptical that you're SJ. You can identify with SJ "values" without being a Si-user, and I'm really not getting Si from your description.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    Not too many inclinations, no. Pretty sure i can rule out esfp - and likely all exxp types, but thats about it. My memory for events as well as my appreciation for the past make me think i have decent Si (not just the sj values thing). But you're right - there are certainly parts that dont fit.

  9. #9
    Member Arkigos's Avatar
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    I read about half of your post and realized the only thing I was going to get from it was some subtle structural context and also that it was more likely that you would intuitively comprehend the functions that you possess. So, based of which of the functions I felt you described well, I am going to say xNTJ... and I think you lean INTJ, personally but could be wrong.

    So, my argument:

    I see much Ni in you. Ni is a very misunderstood function. Typically people see it through the lens of Ni/Fe or Fi/(Se)/Ni in which it appears quite mystical and, well, intuitive. It isn't that way for xNTJ. For xNTJ it is simply sense and logic... internally being able to consider and exclude patterns and possibilities to determine a 'best' solution regardless of what is necessarily orthodoxically seen as best. This can be quicker than a flash, or ruminated over days or weeks, but is always done internally and carefully. Nevertheless, Ni still can sometimes struggle to explain the process (that's what Ti would do) they implemented because they spent all that time ruminating over sense itself and when they come to a conclusion it wasn't as a result of an algorithm, but a great grasp of SENSIBLE CONSIDERATION (patterns and insights) and the result is typically self-evident to them. xNTJ decides what is best based on what they think is pure objective sense. Now, this manifests differently at different ages so it also matters how 'old' you are, though a physical age isn't always perfectly indicative of your maturity in type.

    The misunderstanding I inferred from your post about N is that is about 'aha' moments and being imaginative and impractical. Well, for Ne that could certainly be true but not for Ni. Ni has just as much in common with Si as it does with Ne in my opinion, the main difference being that while Si concerns itself with correct action as determined by an implicit consensus, Ni is about correct consideration as determined by.... well, demonstrative truth. Thus the xNTJ are going to be less focused on, say, the procedure employed by others and more by the demonstrable result or seeming sense of the action in a purer (and often intellectual) sense. They are therefore quite similar on paper but usually pretty easy to recognize in person.

    If your husband is really an ENTP, what do your conversations (casual) typically revolve around? If he really is an Ne dom, you can easily tell if you are Si dom/aux by how your casual conversations play out. I've noticed my Ne conversations with Ni types is usually them being a fairly interested vacuum to my Ne spill. They are soaking it all up, considering, soaking up more, correcting me, counterpointing, until I hit on something they have a solid vision of and then they are pretty unbending and tend to mold me to their thinking on that point, then back to absorbing and considering internally what I say... offering sense as they are able.

    My conversations with Si people are either stunted / non-existent, or with more open-minded and intelligent Si types they try to absorb it all but after about 15 minutes are completely full and need to take a break or translate it all down to something more concrete and actionable before continuing. They can usually do that themselves but I often notice they are like, "okay, so this is how I can deal with my friend, okay cool.... noted... okay *CPU clicking sounds* ..... continue.... " and they'd be exhausted by me in the long term. I don't suspect this is true of an Ni.... I've never managed to exhaust any of my many Ni acquaintances.

    arkigos = {
    mbti_type: INTP,
    cog_funcs: INTP.get_cog_funcs(),
    political_slogan: 'The INTP .... who cares!',
    influences: ['Socrates', 'Jesus', 'Descartes', 'John Stuart Mill', 'Kurt Cobain'],
    interests: ['History', 'Programming', 'Philosophy', 'Typing', 'Advocacy of the Devil'],
    alignment: neutral_good,
    }

  10. #10
    Senior Member Ruthie's Avatar
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    Intetesting food for thought. Thanks for taking the time to write it out.

    So i'm close to accepting extroverted thinking as a major function and i'm now mostly wrestling with si or ni in the mix with te.

    In response to your question, my husband is pretty textbook entp.

    We complement each other well. He's more knowledgeable on most subjects and has a very quick wit. He is able to explain ideas better than i am and is quick to grasp new ideas.

    But i'm more likely to question common arguments and more likely to have an independent perspective on many topics. I'm not as quick, and it takes a lot longer for me to test out an idea before incorporating it into part of my worldview.

    My husband did a little work hosting a radio political talk show last year and that process is pretty illustrative of the way we work together. We would brainstorm topics together - say, the value or questionable value of formal education - and then talk about what we thought about it and what the arguments were to back up the opinion.

    Almost always he ended up presenting the topic from a perspective he "stole" from me, using the same arguments i had used. He says i look at things from an interesting point of view. But the thing is, he has the ability to quickly get to the core of my perspective and re-present it in a way that is much more succinct and persuasive than the way i could articulate it. He's very quick to understand the implications of the new perspective as well (definite Ne on his part).

    I know the whole "fresh perspectives" thing supports the argument that i use ni more than si, but there are a few reasons i'm not ready to say that for sure.

    For one thing, i'm not defined just by my perspectives on certain topics. I could've just as easily written about being a creature of habit or about the time when, as a child, i left my pillow in a hotel room and had to have them ship it back to me because i couldnt sleep on another. True story, and would certainly suggest a high degree of si.

    Second, although my perspectives are often out of step with conventional wisdom, there's often a reactionary element to them which is often linked to introverted sensing. For instance, i'm a fan of the writings of wendell berry - he certainly has a vision that is unique, but it is also strongly linked to continuity with the past, memory, the concrete as opposed to the abstract, and a bit of reactionary radicalism. Is that si or ni at work?

    So i guess i have to figure out whether its more likely that a) i'm a si user who happens to love theory, has perspectives critical of the status quo and does not appreciate rank and status or b) a ni user who happens to love routines, the past, remembering facts and is indifferent to pure rationalism.

    Thanks for getting me this far. Now, its just this pesky ni v. Si question...

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