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  1. #1
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Default EJCC's Instinctual Stacking?

    So! I have literally considered every stacking there is, and I still can't type myself. I don't relate to any of the descriptions I've found. Because I highly doubt that I "broke the system", I presume this means that I'm very out of touch with my instincts, or that there's some sort of MBTI/Enneagram conflict that makes it difficult to separate those types from my instincts.

    Here's a little background data/pros and cons, off the top of my head:

    Ways that I’m Social:
    • I love hosting parties, and talking with people at parties is very energizing to me
    • I’m very into politics and international affairs
    • I love gossip and I care about keeping up with people’s lives (from a distance), even if I don’t know them well
    • When I'm in a musical ensemble and we're playing a piece, and I feel like one part of a glorious whole, it's a really amazing, almost spiritual experience -- which may not be related to the So instinct, but it might be, since it means oneness with a group


    Ways that I’m not Social:
    • I can't stand social events where I don't know anyone; what usually happens is, I make myself talk to one or two people, and if that goes well, then I latch onto them so that I don't have to repeat the experience with anyone else. The only times when I love schmoozing at parties, is when I know all the people who are there and I genuinely want to talk to them.
    • I'm never all that aware of my standing within a group. I have an idealized image of the role I strive for, in the group, but I can never tell if the other members of the group actually see me that way.
    • Every description I’ve read of Social Ones suggests that we enforce perfection onto society, but I gave up on that in my early teens. When I was younger, I had such a low tolerance for bullshit/incorrectness that I would act like the Fact Police around others, and crusade against any idea of theirs that I thought was “wrong”. Now I am the polar opposite; for the sake of my own mental health, I avoid fights that I know I can't win. On the forum, for example, I err on the side of not getting myself into arguments, because I know from experience that I'd get emotionally involved, the debate would entrench itself, and after the inevitable stalemate (or my failure), I'd leave with the same feeling that you get if you open up to someone emotionally only for them to promptly stab you right in your newly exposed weak spot. (woo, run on sentence!)


    Ways that I’m Self-Pres:
    • I'm very concerned with my mental well-being; I'm protective of my free time because I know that I'll feel horrible without it, I detach myself from toxic friendships as soon as I can to protect myself from getting hurt, etc.
    • I absolutely loathe being hungry, so I’m very serious about getting regular meals every day; even in the darkest periods of my life, I’ve made sure to eat enough to stave off hunger.


    Ways that I’m not Self-Pres:
    • I tend to not take care of myself as well as I think I do. Readers of my blog know that I work myself to death and then become confused when my level of performance declines.
    • If a friend bails on plans with me at the last minute, citing a sp-dom reason like needing chill time after finishing an assignment, I'll have very little sympathy for them -- because if it were me, I would have kept my word, because that's more important than my petty everyday needs.


    Ways that I’m Sexual:
    • I’m an intense person and I’ve been told that intimidates people
    • I like spending one-on-one time with friends, and I hate it when a friend invites me over and then I find out too late that they invited other friends over too; leaves me feeling deprived of conversation topics that would have been impossible in a large group.
    • As implied by the previous point, I love the sorts of conversations that you can only have with someone one-on-one
    • Finding out that a close friend has behaved unjustly or immorally but thinks they did the right thing, can feel like a betrayal


    Ways that I’m not Sexual:
    • I realized very recently that I’m afraid of intimacy. Sx descriptions tend to emphasize being “in sync” with someone, and being afraid of becoming “out of sync” with them, which is not necessarily something I can relate to. I love feeling like I truly know someone, on a deep level – and having that in a romantic relationship would be really, really nice – but I’m not eager to let other people know me that deeply.
    • I'm more prone towards compassion, than empathy.


    Thoughts?
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  2. #2
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    @EJCC
    I'm leaning Sp/So, but I could buy Sp/Sx. you seem more "aware" and "in touch" than an So laster, though your circle of concern is still smaller than that of an So dom.
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  3. #3
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    A relevant quote from me, from another thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I'm 20 minutes into this video, and I'm much more open to the Social idea, now. Mostly because of the example of the guy who knew the names of everyone in his class even though he never interacted with them. I relate to that tendency towards wanting to know what's going on with everyone, and I also relate to not having as much sympathy for people who cancel their plans with me because they're feeling low on energy or something like that -- which would mean I'm likely So-dom and not Sp-dom. But that still leaves a lot of questions. Why don't I ever know where I stand within a group? Why do I always feel detached from groups, and why do I still do the "hot and cold" thing associated with Sx? Is my intensity unrelated to my instinct?

    Another edit (as I keep watching this video): I related a whole lot to the Sx example of being annoyed that you never got to have one-on-one time with your So friend because they kept inviting other people over too. I actually had to have a talk with one of my friends about that, over Thanksgiving break; I told her that yes, I'd come to her party, as long as I could hang out with her either before or after, to have one-on-one time.
    And answering questions from that same thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross
    But seriously EJCC you don't really sound like a social-first based on what you've said in this thread. You're an extrovert so you're going to be socially oriented. My ESTJ sx/sp sister also takes interest in what's going on with others but has the intensity and whole hot-and-cold thing going on. She's not as interested in politics and world events, though. And even though she's very sociable and has range of friends, she is inclined to have one good friend at a time and focus most of her time and attention on that person - which I think you've said before you don't do as much, right?
    I actually do relate to the bolded, though usually with a clique of four or five people. I have a very large network of distant friends, that I think are cool and that I know think I'm cool, but I struggle to become/remain close with them. If they aren't in that insular clique, I tend to forget that many of them exist, and then, through neglect, I negate the possibility of becoming closer friends with them. So I end up keeping that network at arm's length and only staying with my clique, because any more people would be exhausting.

    I also have this push-pull tendency with my close friends, that makes the sp/sx sx/sp "hot and cold" concept resonate with me. (Example: having a deep heart-to-heart with a friend and then not contacting them for a month or two. Though it's important to note that this only happens with friends that live far away; friends that are geographically close tend to be a higher priority.)
    I suppose the possibility is that you could be a sx/so but I couldn't say for sure. Are you sure about being Sp-first? Do you relate well to Sp 1 descriptions?
    I'm not sure about anything, at this point. I relate equally little to all of them.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    EJCC
    I'm leaning Sp/So, but I could buy Sp/Sx. you seem more "aware" and "in touch" than an So laster, though your circle of concern is still smaller than that of an So dom.
    Sp/So descriptions all seem to emphasize being stoic, serious, uptight, etc, and I never related to any of those. (That could be the 7 in my tritype, though.) I related marginally more to Sp/Sx, which is why I listed myself as such for a time, but several Sx-users including @Z Buck McFate and @Saturned sent me messages saying that they didn't get the Sx "vibe" from me.

    I dunno.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  4. #4
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I would think of you as so/sp as overall patterns. Not a specific fact that makes me think it.
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  5. #5
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Thoughts?
    Unfortunately, just about all of this could be due to the fact you're a 1, an extrovert, a ESTJ and specifically a Si user.

    If you will allow some speculation: I do think the way you talk about Sx related stuff seems to sit well, so I would say it's in the top 2 stacking. The fact that I get a good sense of it makes me think it's likely your first instinct.
    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I actually do relate to the bolded, though usually with a clique of four or five people. I have a very large network of distant friends, that I think are cool and that I know think I'm cool, but I struggle to become/remain close with them. If they aren't in that insular clique, I tend to forget that many of them exist, and then, through neglect, I negate the possibility of becoming closer friends with them. So I end up keeping that network at arm's length and only staying with my clique, because any more people would be exhausting.
    Hmmm, the fact you don't get/stay too close is interesting - as well as the fact you limit your inner circle.

    Do you restrict your clique so you can focus your attentions on a limited group of people - ie so as not to spread yourself too thinly? Do you generally find socialising in group situations a bit overwhelming or frustrating? Do you feel like you don't have a grasp on a person's personality until you've had a proper discussion with them? Do you ask people questions about themselves that may be considered forward, in an effort to get to know them?

    I also have this push-pull tendency with my close friends, that makes the sp/sx sx/sp "hot and cold" concept resonate with me. (Example: having a deep heart-to-heart with a friend and then not contacting them for a month or two. Though it's important to note that this only happens with friends that live far away; friends that are geographically close tend to be a higher priority.)
    I don't know if that's exactly the way the hot/cold aspect is meant. Your example seems more hot and cool (which could be sx/so). I thought hot/cold was more extreme. Do you have very up and down moods? Do you adore someone for a while and then are suddenly irritated by them?

    One thing my sx/sp sister does (sorry to harp on about her but I thought it's useful to compare to another ESTJ) is socialise and party like mad on a Friday or Saturday night, and then the next day, plonk herself in front of the TV in her pyjamas all day long, wrapped in her duvet, eating a large bowl of pasta (it's one of her favourite foods), barely communicating with anyone. And no, it's not just the hangover . She can be rather zombie-like. She will barely speak, show any emotion or even make eye contact. I've learned it best to just leave her when she's like this because if you push her to talk too much you get your head bitten off (she's terribly bad tempered when she's tired ). It's such a stark contrast that I struggled to understand it. It was almost like an introvert needing to recharge but she's definitely not an introvert. I realise now it was more of a Sp recharge after so much intense experience.

    As for some Sp related questions: how aware are you of your need for comfort? When you are going to a party or event do you worry about being warm enough, having enough to eat, having a comfortable seat - and do you tend to prepare for such possibilities by bringing supplies? Are you sensitive to high or low temperatures (when others aren't that bothered by it) to the point you can't concentrate on things? Are you easily distracted by it being too light/dark, by noises, smells, or goings on? Do you show you care about others by cooking them great meals or making them hot drinks, or making sure they're warm and comfortable? Do you worry a great deal about uncertain situations or being out of your element?

    Edit:Sp/So descriptions all seem to emphasize being stoic, serious, uptight, etc, and I never related to any of those. (That could be the 7 in my tritype, though.)
    Yeah sp/so doesn't seem right.

    I related marginally more to Sp/Sx, which is why I listed myself as such for a time, but several Sx-users including Z Buck McFate and Saturned sent me messages saying that they didn't get the Sx "vibe" from me.

    I dunno.
    That makes me question the sx-first theory. It's tough to work it out.

    Sx/Sp or Sp/sx does seem increasingly to fit.
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  6. #6
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Have you considered So/Sx, @EJCC? You have a sort of lightness in your energy that I tend to associate with So-firsts, rather than the leashed intensity of Sp/Sx. Whenever I visualize Sp/Sx people, I see a vast frozen ocean with ominous dark shapes swimming just beneath the surface. I don't feel that from you.

    Meanwhile...

    •Every description I’ve read of Social Ones suggests that we enforce perfection onto society, but I gave up on that in my early teens. When I was younger, I had such a low tolerance for bullshit/incorrectness that I would act like the Fact Police around others, and crusade against any idea of theirs that I thought was “wrong”. Now I am the polar opposite; for the sake of my own mental health, I avoid fights that I know I can't win. On the forum, for example, I err on the side of not getting myself into arguments, because I know from experience that I'd get emotionally involved, the debate would entrench itself, and after the inevitable stalemate (or my failure), I'd leave with the same feeling that you get if you open up to someone emotionally only for them to promptly stab you right in your newly exposed weak spot. (woo, run on sentence!)
    I think the bolded line is kind of telling. You had to learn how to sublimate the instinct of the Social 1. That to me is evidence for rather than against you being So-first. It's the equivalent of me as an sx-first having to learn how to respect boundaries, especially in intimate relationships, when my instinct is to wear the other person's skin if I could. Metaphorically, of course.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    You might be an sp/sx like me.

    I can definitely relate to loving one-on-one time and being upset if other people are around when a friend invites me over. I am also very cautious when it comes to toxic relationships and cut off these kind of people immediately and am also careful about developing emotional intimacy, while on the other hand I naturally try to go deeper and need at least one or two deep meaningful relationships.

    And despite being an sp-dom I hate it if people just bail out on me because they suddenly want to chill or something, if I promise someone I am going to be somewhere at a certain time I WILL be there unless genuine sickness or something like this keeps me at home.

  8. #8
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    Have you considered So/Sx, @EJCC? You have a sort of lightness in your energy that I tend to associate with So-firsts, rather than the leashed intensity of Sp/Sx. Whenever I visualize Sp/Sx people, I see a vast frozen ocean with ominous dark shapes swimming just beneath the surface. I don't feel that from you.

    Meanwhile...



    I think the bolded line is kind of telling. You had to learn how to sublimate the instinct of the Social 1. That to me is evidence for rather than against you being So-first. It's the equivalent of me as an sx-first having to learn how to respect boundaries, especially in intimate relationships, when my instinct is to wear the other person's skin if I could. Metaphorically, of course.
    I think you're spot on. I was contemplating sp/sx but it wasn't fitting.

  9. #9
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    I'm not sure whether to feel reassured or discouraged by the fact that the forum is clearly as confused as I am. But I guess it's balanced out by my clear-as-crystal MBTI type.

    Also, everyone's comments are making me think So/Sx is increasingly likely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Unfortunately, just about all of this could be due to the fact you're a 1, an extrovert, a ESTJ and specifically a Si user.
    I know. It's so hard for me to distinguish my instincts from my other types.
    If you will allow some speculation: I do think the way you talk about Sx related stuff seems to sit well, so I would say it's in the top 2 stacking. The fact that I get a good sense of it makes me think it's likely your first instinct.

    Hmmm, the fact you don't get/stay too close is interesting - as well as the fact you limit your inner circle.

    Do you restrict your clique so you can focus your attentions on a limited group of people - ie so as not to spread yourself too thinly?
    Mine might be a bit of a special case, because most of my friends live far away from me; my hometown is one one side of the country, and my university is on the other. So what happens is, I get these social circles, in order of importance:
    1. Parents and close friends (who all live in my hometown or other distant places) -- who I am extremely loyal to, but ironically don't contact all that much, because I know that my closeness to them will be unaffected by that*;
    2. My college clique of about ten kinda close-ish friends, most of whom I've slightly opened up to, but not all that much; and
    3. High school friends (in my hometown) and college friends/friendly acquaintances, all of whom I love to see whenever I get the chance, but I generally either forget they exist (because they're so low on my priority list that they just aren't on my mind), or spend so much time on my closer friends that I don't have any time left for them.

    *which is why I said earlier that geography is most important. In order to maintain closeness with my not-as-good friends who live nearer to me, I have to spend more time with them -- but I can get away with much less contact with the close (but far away) friends who I've already established a deep bond with. It's a delicate balance, but I maintain it as best I can.
    Do you generally find socialising in group situations a bit overwhelming or frustrating?
    Not really. I'm comfortable in groups. I have a switch that I flip in those situations -- "turning on the charm", I guess -- which pretty much guarantees that I'll have a good time on a shallow level. I tell stories, I make people laugh, I use imitation-Fe all over the place. The only time that I find socializing overwhelming, is when it requires me to stop being genuine. "Turning on the charm" only works well when I'm already having a good time, and when I get good vibes back from the attendees that reinforces my confidence and thus strengthens the charm power. If someone's forcing me to go to the party, and I don't want to be there, making it hard to flip that switch with any amount of success -- that's when I start feeling drained.
    Do you feel like you don't have a grasp on a person's personality until you've had a proper discussion with them? Do you ask people questions about themselves that may be considered forward, in an effort to get to know them?
    Sort of, and sort of. If I see someone and I want to get to know them, the first thing I'll do is chat them up about something interesting but unrelated to them personally, and then I connect those things to them as a person by asking them about their interests, etc. Pretty common approach, yes, but throughout that conversation, I'll be making a concerted effort to read their body language, their sense of humor, their style of speech, and read deeper into their personality and their motivations through surface observation. If I end up asking them deep questions -- which I'll do when it feels natural and "right" -- it'll be an attempt to find the missing pieces to the puzzle that I've already actively started putting together.

    (This is starting to sound so/sx...)
    I don't know if that's exactly the way the hot/cold aspect is meant. Your example seems more hot and cool (which could be sx/so). I thought hot/cold was more extreme. Do you have very up and down moods? Do you adore someone for a while and then are suddenly irritated by them?
    Yes and yes, but to a very small degree. I didn't realize hot and cool was a thing, too, but it sounds like that might be more accurate -- especially considering your example with your sister, which is like something I would do but magnified x100. I might spend an hour or two in my pajamas, not talking to anyone, but definitely not an entire day!
    As for some Sp related questions: how aware are you of your need for comfort? When you are going to a party or event do you worry about being warm enough, having enough to eat, having a comfortable seat - and do you tend to prepare for such possibilities by bringing supplies? Are you sensitive to high or low temperatures (when others aren't that bothered by it) to the point you can't concentrate on things? Are you easily distracted by it being too light/dark, by noises, smells, or goings on?
    I feel like I'm as bothered by external discomfort as anyone would be if they aren't a sensotard. If I'm going to a party and it's cold out and I need to walk a ways to get there, I'm wearing a coat and I'm not wearing heels. If I know that I'd get hungry at the party, then I'll eat a granola bar or something before I get there. If I don't have a granola bar or anything around, or if there isn't time, I'll deal with it and just be hungry while I'm there -- which may be unpleasant, but whatever, hunger comes in waves anyway. The only external thing that I'm more sensitive to, than other people, is background music -- but that has more to do with being a musician, and the daughter of a musician, and also someone with really good relative pitch.
    Do you show you care about others by cooking them great meals or making them hot drinks, or making sure they're warm and comfortable? Do you worry a great deal about uncertain situations or being out of your element?
    No to the first question -- I want them to feel at home mentally, more than anything. An exception would be if I was hosting a party that necessitated good food/drink. Yes to the second question, but I think that has more to do with my Enneagram.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    Have you considered So/Sx, EJCC? You have a sort of lightness in your energy that I tend to associate with So-firsts, rather than the leashed intensity of Sp/Sx. Whenever I visualize Sp/Sx people, I see a vast frozen ocean with ominous dark shapes swimming just beneath the surface. I don't feel that from you.

    Meanwhile...

    I think the bolded line is kind of telling. You had to learn how to sublimate the instinct of the Social 1. That to me is evidence for rather than against you being So-first. It's the equivalent of me as an sx-first having to learn how to respect boundaries, especially in intimate relationships, when my instinct is to wear the other person's skin if I could. Metaphorically, of course.
    You make a convincing argument, here. If I am So-first, because of the example you quoted, then that would explain why So-dom type 1 descriptions never really resonated with me. They all assumed that I was still a crusader, when now I've programmed that part of myself to shut off whenever a hopelessly ignorant person starts to make me angry.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #10
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Hey,

    You strike me as a bit more open, *friendly*, and engaged than many sp-doms can be, so I'm not super convinced of the sp-dom. so-dom makes sense to me, but I don't know you well enough to know whether sx-dom would be a possibility. I have this thought though that a TJ who seems very friendly and polite and engaging is much more likely to so-dom, because there's an element of Fe-ish-ness and diplomacy (not Fe, mind you, but in another thread it was being discussed some of the crossover between so and Fe) in you that is absent in a lot of TJ's. Just another thought.
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