EJCC's Instinctual Stacking?

[EJCC]

So! I have literally considered every stacking there is, and I still can't type myself. I don't relate to any of the descriptions I've found. Because I highly doubt that I "broke the system", I presume this means that I'm very out of touch with my instincts, or that there's some sort of MBTI/Enneagram conflict that makes it difficult to separate those types from my instincts.

Here's a little background data/pros and cons, off the top of my head:

Ways that I’m Social:

• I love hosting parties, and talking with people at parties is very energizing to me
• I’m very into politics and international affairs
• I love gossip and I care about keeping up with people’s lives (from a distance), even if I don’t know them well
• When I'm in a musical ensemble and we're playing a piece, and I feel like one part of a glorious whole, it's a really amazing, almost spiritual experience -- which may not be related to the So instinct, but it might be, since it means oneness with a group

Ways that I’m not Social:

• I can't stand social events where I don't know anyone; what usually happens is, I make myself talk to one or two people, and if that goes well, then I latch onto them so that I don't have to repeat the experience with anyone else. The only times when I love schmoozing at parties, is when I know all the people who are there and I genuinely want to talk to them.
• I'm never all that aware of my standing within a group. I have an idealized image of the role I strive for, in the group, but I can never tell if the other members of the group actually see me that way.
• Every description I’ve read of Social Ones suggests that we enforce perfection onto society, but I gave up on that in my early teens. When I was younger, I had such a low tolerance for bullshit/incorrectness that I would act like the Fact Police around others, and crusade against any idea of theirs that I thought was “wrong”. Now I am the polar opposite; for the sake of my own mental health, I avoid fights that I know I can't win. On the forum, for example, I err on the side of not getting myself into arguments, because I know from experience that I'd get emotionally involved, the debate would entrench itself, and after the inevitable stalemate (or my failure), I'd leave with the same feeling that you get if you open up to someone emotionally only for them to promptly stab you right in your newly exposed weak spot. (woo, run on sentence!)

Ways that I’m Self-Pres:

• I'm very concerned with my mental well-being; I'm protective of my free time because I know that I'll feel horrible without it, I detach myself from toxic friendships as soon as I can to protect myself from getting hurt, etc.
• I absolutely loathe being hungry, so I’m very serious about getting regular meals every day; even in the darkest periods of my life, I’ve made sure to eat enough to stave off hunger.

Ways that I’m not Self-Pres:

• I tend to not take care of myself as well as I think I do. Readers of my blog know that I work myself to death and then become confused when my level of performance declines.
• If a friend bails on plans with me at the last minute, citing a sp-dom reason like needing chill time after finishing an assignment, I'll have very little sympathy for them -- because if it were me, I would have kept my word, because that's more important than my petty everyday needs.

Ways that I’m Sexual:

• I’m an intense person and I’ve been told that intimidates people
• I like spending one-on-one time with friends, and I hate it when a friend invites me over and then I find out too late that they invited other friends over too; leaves me feeling deprived of conversation topics that would have been impossible in a large group.
• As implied by the previous point, I love the sorts of conversations that you can only have with someone one-on-one
• Finding out that a close friend has behaved unjustly or immorally but thinks they did the right thing, can feel like a betrayal

Ways that I’m not Sexual:

• I realized very recently that I’m afraid of intimacy. Sx descriptions tend to emphasize being “in sync” with someone, and being afraid of becoming “out of sync” with them, which is not necessarily something I can relate to. I love feeling like I truly know someone, on a deep level – and having that in a romantic relationship would be really, really nice – but I’m not eager to let other people know me that deeply.
• I'm more prone towards compassion, than empathy.

Thoughts?

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]
I'm leaning Sp/So, but I could buy Sp/Sx. you seem more "aware" and "in touch" than an So laster, though your circle of concern is still smaller than that of an So dom.

 

[EJCC]

A relevant quote from me, from another thread:

I'm 20 minutes into this video, and I'm much more open to the Social idea, now. Mostly because of the example of the guy who knew the names of everyone in his class even though he never interacted with them. I relate to that tendency towards wanting to know what's going on with everyone, and I also relate to not having as much sympathy for people who cancel their plans with me because they're feeling low on energy or something like that -- which would mean I'm likely So-dom and not Sp-dom. But that still leaves a lot of questions. Why don't I ever know where I stand within a group? Why do I always feel detached from groups, and why do I still do the "hot and cold" thing associated with Sx? Is my intensity unrelated to my instinct?

Another edit (as I keep watching this video): I related a whole lot to the Sx example of being annoyed that you never got to have one-on-one time with your So friend because they kept inviting other people over too. I actually had to have a talk with one of my friends about that, over Thanksgiving break; I told her that yes, I'd come to her party, as long as I could hang out with her either before or after, to have one-on-one time.

And answering questions from that same thread:

But seriously EJCC you don't really sound like a social-first based on what you've said in this thread. You're an extrovert so you're going to be socially oriented. My ESTJ sx/sp sister also takes interest in what's going on with others but has the intensity and whole hot-and-cold thing going on. She's not as interested in politics and world events, though. And even though she's very sociable and has range of friends, she is inclined to have one good friend at a time and focus most of her time and attention on that person - which I think you've said before you don't do as much, right?

I actually do relate to the bolded, though usually with a clique of four or five people. I have a very large network of distant friends, that I think are cool and that I know think I'm cool, but I struggle to become/remain close with them. If they aren't in that insular clique, I tend to forget that many of them exist, and then, through neglect, I negate the possibility of becoming closer friends with them. So I end up keeping that network at arm's length and only staying with my clique, because any more people would be exhausting.

I also have this push-pull tendency with my close friends, that makes the sp/sx sx/sp "hot and cold" concept resonate with me. (Example: having a deep heart-to-heart with a friend and then not contacting them for a month or two. Though it's important to note that this only happens with friends that live far away; friends that are geographically close tend to be a higher priority.)

I suppose the possibility is that you could be a sx/so but I couldn't say for sure. Are you sure about being Sp-first? Do you relate well to Sp 1 descriptions?

I'm not sure about anything, at this point. I relate equally little to all of them.

Edit:

EJCC
I'm leaning Sp/So, but I could buy Sp/Sx. you seem more "aware" and "in touch" than an So laster, though your circle of concern is still smaller than that of an So dom.

Sp/So descriptions all seem to emphasize being stoic, serious, uptight, etc, and I never related to any of those. (That could be the 7 in my tritype, though.) I related marginally more to Sp/Sx, which is why I listed myself as such for a time, but several Sx-users including [MENTION=7842]Z Buck McFate[/MENTION] and [MENTION=13402]Saturned[/MENTION] sent me messages saying that they didn't get the Sx "vibe" from me.

I dunno.

 

[King sns]

I would think of you as so/sp as overall patterns. Not a specific fact that makes me think it.

 

[Southern Kross]

Thoughts?

Unfortunately, just about all of this could be due to the fact you're a 1, an extrovert, a ESTJ and specifically a Si user.

If you will allow some speculation: I do think the way you talk about Sx related stuff seems to sit well, so I would say it's in the top 2 stacking. The fact that I get a good sense of it makes me think it's likely your first instinct.

I actually do relate to the bolded, though usually with a clique of four or five people. I have a very large network of distant friends, that I think are cool and that I know think I'm cool, but I struggle to become/remain close with them. If they aren't in that insular clique, I tend to forget that many of them exist, and then, through neglect, I negate the possibility of becoming closer friends with them. So I end up keeping that network at arm's length and only staying with my clique, because any more people would be exhausting.

Hmmm, the fact you don't get/stay too close is interesting - as well as the fact you limit your inner circle.

Do you restrict your clique so you can focus your attentions on a limited group of people - ie so as not to spread yourself too thinly? Do you generally find socialising in group situations a bit overwhelming or frustrating? Do you feel like you don't have a grasp on a person's personality until you've had a proper discussion with them? Do you ask people questions about themselves that may be considered forward, in an effort to get to know them?

I also have this push-pull tendency with my close friends, that makes the sp/sx sx/sp "hot and cold" concept resonate with me. (Example: having a deep heart-to-heart with a friend and then not contacting them for a month or two. Though it's important to note that this only happens with friends that live far away; friends that are geographically close tend to be a higher priority.)

I don't know if that's exactly the way the hot/cold aspect is meant. Your example seems more hot and cool (which could be sx/so). I thought hot/cold was more extreme. Do you have very up and down moods? Do you adore someone for a while and then are suddenly irritated by them?

One thing my sx/sp sister does (sorry to harp on about her but I thought it's useful to compare to another ESTJ) is socialise and party like mad on a Friday or Saturday night, and then the next day, plonk herself in front of the TV in her pyjamas all day long, wrapped in her duvet, eating a large bowl of pasta (it's one of her favourite foods), barely communicating with anyone. And no, it's not just the hangover . She can be rather zombie-like. She will barely speak, show any emotion or even make eye contact. I've learned it best to just leave her when she's like this because if you push her to talk too much you get your head bitten off (she's terribly bad tempered when she's tired ). It's such a stark contrast that I struggled to understand it. It was almost like an introvert needing to recharge but she's definitely not an introvert. I realise now it was more of a Sp recharge after so much intense experience.

As for some Sp related questions: how aware are you of your need for comfort? When you are going to a party or event do you worry about being warm enough, having enough to eat, having a comfortable seat - and do you tend to prepare for such possibilities by bringing supplies? Are you sensitive to high or low temperatures (when others aren't that bothered by it) to the point you can't concentrate on things? Are you easily distracted by it being too light/dark, by noises, smells, or goings on? Do you show you care about others by cooking them great meals or making them hot drinks, or making sure they're warm and comfortable? Do you worry a great deal about uncertain situations or being out of your element?

Edit:Sp/So descriptions all seem to emphasize being stoic, serious, uptight, etc, and I never related to any of those. (That could be the 7 in my tritype, though.)

Yeah sp/so doesn't seem right.

I related marginally more to Sp/Sx, which is why I listed myself as such for a time, but several Sx-users including Z Buck McFate and Saturned sent me messages saying that they didn't get the Sx "vibe" from me.

I dunno.

That makes me question the sx-first theory. It's tough to work it out.

Sx/Sp or Sp/sx does seem increasingly to fit.

 

[violet_crown]

Have you considered So/Sx, [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]? You have a sort of lightness in your energy that I tend to associate with So-firsts, rather than the leashed intensity of Sp/Sx. Whenever I visualize Sp/Sx people, I see a vast frozen ocean with ominous dark shapes swimming just beneath the surface. I don't feel that from you.

Meanwhile...

•Every description I’ve read of Social Ones suggests that we enforce perfection onto society, but I gave up on that in my early teens. When I was younger, I had such a low tolerance for bullshit/incorrectness that I would act like the Fact Police around others, and crusade against any idea of theirs that I thought was “wrong”. Now I am the polar opposite; for the sake of my own mental health, I avoid fights that I know I can't win. On the forum, for example, I err on the side of not getting myself into arguments, because I know from experience that I'd get emotionally involved, the debate would entrench itself, and after the inevitable stalemate (or my failure), I'd leave with the same feeling that you get if you open up to someone emotionally only for them to promptly stab you right in your newly exposed weak spot. (woo, run on sentence!)

I think the bolded line is kind of telling. You had to learn how to sublimate the instinct of the Social 1. That to me is evidence for rather than against you being So-first. It's the equivalent of me as an sx-first having to learn how to respect boundaries, especially in intimate relationships, when my instinct is to wear the other person's skin if I could. Metaphorically, of course.

 

[Lightyear]

You might be an sp/sx like me.

I can definitely relate to loving one-on-one time and being upset if other people are around when a friend invites me over. I am also very cautious when it comes to toxic relationships and cut off these kind of people immediately and am also careful about developing emotional intimacy, while on the other hand I naturally try to go deeper and need at least one or two deep meaningful relationships.

And despite being an sp-dom I hate it if people just bail out on me because they suddenly want to chill or something, if I promise someone I am going to be somewhere at a certain time I WILL be there unless genuine sickness or something like this keeps me at home.

 

[Rasofy]

Have you considered So/Sx, [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]? You have a sort of lightness in your energy that I tend to associate with So-firsts, rather than the leashed intensity of Sp/Sx. Whenever I visualize Sp/Sx people, I see a vast frozen ocean with ominous dark shapes swimming just beneath the surface. I don't feel that from you.

Meanwhile...



I think the bolded line is kind of telling. You had to learn how to sublimate the instinct of the Social 1. That to me is evidence for rather than against you being So-first. It's the equivalent of me as an sx-first having to learn how to respect boundaries, especially in intimate relationships, when my instinct is to wear the other person's skin if I could. Metaphorically, of course.

I think you're spot on. I was contemplating sp/sx but it wasn't fitting.

 

[EJCC]

I'm not sure whether to feel reassured or discouraged by the fact that the forum is clearly as confused as I am. But I guess it's balanced out by my clear-as-crystal MBTI type.

Also, everyone's comments are making me think So/Sx is increasingly likely.

Unfortunately, just about all of this could be due to the fact you're a 1, an extrovert, a ESTJ and specifically a Si user.

I know. It's so hard for me to distinguish my instincts from my other types.

If you will allow some speculation: I do think the way you talk about Sx related stuff seems to sit well, so I would say it's in the top 2 stacking. The fact that I get a good sense of it makes me think it's likely your first instinct.

Hmmm, the fact you don't get/stay too close is interesting - as well as the fact you limit your inner circle.

Do you restrict your clique so you can focus your attentions on a limited group of people - ie so as not to spread yourself too thinly?

Mine might be a bit of a special case, because most of my friends live far away from me; my hometown is one one side of the country, and my university is on the other. So what happens is, I get these social circles, in order of importance:
1. Parents and close friends (who all live in my hometown or other distant places) -- who I am extremely loyal to, but ironically don't contact all that much, because I know that my closeness to them will be unaffected by that*;
2. My college clique of about ten kinda close-ish friends, most of whom I've slightly opened up to, but not all that much; and
3. High school friends (in my hometown) and college friends/friendly acquaintances, all of whom I love to see whenever I get the chance, but I generally either forget they exist (because they're so low on my priority list that they just aren't on my mind), or spend so much time on my closer friends that I don't have any time left for them.

*which is why I said earlier that geography is most important. In order to maintain closeness with my not-as-good friends who live nearer to me, I have to spend more time with them -- but I can get away with much less contact with the close (but far away) friends who I've already established a deep bond with. It's a delicate balance, but I maintain it as best I can.

Do you generally find socialising in group situations a bit overwhelming or frustrating?

Not really. I'm comfortable in groups. I have a switch that I flip in those situations -- "turning on the charm", I guess -- which pretty much guarantees that I'll have a good time on a shallow level. I tell stories, I make people laugh, I use imitation-Fe all over the place. The only time that I find socializing overwhelming, is when it requires me to stop being genuine. "Turning on the charm" only works well when I'm already having a good time, and when I get good vibes back from the attendees that reinforces my confidence and thus strengthens the charm power. If someone's forcing me to go to the party, and I don't want to be there, making it hard to flip that switch with any amount of success -- that's when I start feeling drained.

Do you feel like you don't have a grasp on a person's personality until you've had a proper discussion with them? Do you ask people questions about themselves that may be considered forward, in an effort to get to know them?

Sort of, and sort of. If I see someone and I want to get to know them, the first thing I'll do is chat them up about something interesting but unrelated to them personally, and then I connect those things to them as a person by asking them about their interests, etc. Pretty common approach, yes, but throughout that conversation, I'll be making a concerted effort to read their body language, their sense of humor, their style of speech, and read deeper into their personality and their motivations through surface observation. If I end up asking them deep questions -- which I'll do when it feels natural and "right" -- it'll be an attempt to find the missing pieces to the puzzle that I've already actively started putting together.

(This is starting to sound so/sx...)

I don't know if that's exactly the way the hot/cold aspect is meant. Your example seems more hot and cool (which could be sx/so). I thought hot/cold was more extreme. Do you have very up and down moods? Do you adore someone for a while and then are suddenly irritated by them?

Yes and yes, but to a very small degree. I didn't realize hot and cool was a thing, too, but it sounds like that might be more accurate -- especially considering your example with your sister, which is like something I would do but magnified x100. I might spend an hour or two in my pajamas, not talking to anyone, but definitely not an entire day!

As for some Sp related questions: how aware are you of your need for comfort? When you are going to a party or event do you worry about being warm enough, having enough to eat, having a comfortable seat - and do you tend to prepare for such possibilities by bringing supplies? Are you sensitive to high or low temperatures (when others aren't that bothered by it) to the point you can't concentrate on things? Are you easily distracted by it being too light/dark, by noises, smells, or goings on?

I feel like I'm as bothered by external discomfort as anyone would be if they aren't a sensotard. If I'm going to a party and it's cold out and I need to walk a ways to get there, I'm wearing a coat and I'm not wearing heels. If I know that I'd get hungry at the party, then I'll eat a granola bar or something before I get there. If I don't have a granola bar or anything around, or if there isn't time, I'll deal with it and just be hungry while I'm there -- which may be unpleasant, but whatever, hunger comes in waves anyway. The only external thing that I'm more sensitive to, than other people, is background music -- but that has more to do with being a musician, and the daughter of a musician, and also someone with really good relative pitch.

Do you show you care about others by cooking them great meals or making them hot drinks, or making sure they're warm and comfortable? Do you worry a great deal about uncertain situations or being out of your element?

No to the first question -- I want them to feel at home mentally, more than anything. An exception would be if I was hosting a party that necessitated good food/drink. Yes to the second question, but I think that has more to do with my Enneagram.

Have you considered So/Sx, EJCC? You have a sort of lightness in your energy that I tend to associate with So-firsts, rather than the leashed intensity of Sp/Sx. Whenever I visualize Sp/Sx people, I see a vast frozen ocean with ominous dark shapes swimming just beneath the surface. I don't feel that from you.

Meanwhile...

I think the bolded line is kind of telling. You had to learn how to sublimate the instinct of the Social 1. That to me is evidence for rather than against you being So-first. It's the equivalent of me as an sx-first having to learn how to respect boundaries, especially in intimate relationships, when my instinct is to wear the other person's skin if I could. Metaphorically, of course.

You make a convincing argument, here. If I am So-first, because of the example you quoted, then that would explain why So-dom type 1 descriptions never really resonated with me. They all assumed that I was still a crusader, when now I've programmed that part of myself to shut off whenever a hopelessly ignorant person starts to make me angry.

 

[cascadeco]

Hey,

You strike me as a bit more open, *friendly*, and engaged than many sp-doms can be, so I'm not super convinced of the sp-dom. so-dom makes sense to me, but I don't know you well enough to know whether sx-dom would be a possibility. I have this thought though that a TJ who seems very friendly and polite and engaging is much more likely to so-dom, because there's an element of Fe-ish-ness and diplomacy (not Fe, mind you, but in another thread it was being discussed some of the crossover between so and Fe) in you that is absent in a lot of TJ's. Just another thought.

 

[UniqueMixture]

I always thought you were Sx first because you seem really enthusiastic and willing to go on an adventure, but perhaps I was mistaken? If someone said, "Hey, let's go skydiving! Now!" how would you respond?

 

[Glycerine]

Hey,

You strike me as a bit more open, *friendly*, and engaged than many sp-doms can be, so I'm not super convinced of the sp-dom. so-dom makes sense to me, but I don't know you well enough to know whether sx-dom would be a possibility. I have this thought though that a TJ who seems very friendly and polite and engaging is much more likely to so-dom, because there's an element of Fe-ish-ness and diplomacy (not Fe, mind you, but in another thread it was being discussed some of the crossover between so and Fe) in you that is absent in a lot of TJ's. Just another thought.

Agreed. I am a sp dom (sp/so) extrovert for sure. There are two distinct modes of socialization for me. In the one mode, I will be fairly engaged, talkative, excitable... interested in learning about people and stuff. My other mode is disengaged, monotone, "leave me alone to my thoughts"... I will automatically tune out. If I feel uncomfortable in the environment, I tend to go to my second mode. I have been described as "sweet but closed off". EJCC, you seem to be open and friendly for most of the interactions. Contrast that with me, "I am kind of 'hit and miss'" lol

My dad is probably ESFJ 3w2 So/Sp. He is typically always engaged but you get the sense that he's holding back. He will learn all about you and gain your trust through a repertoire of stories about others but in the end, you rarely learn much about him personally. He also gets rather cranky and sometimes complains a lot if things aren't to his preferences... if he doesn't eat on time or if he's in pain or in any discomfort.

I hope that helps.

 

[EJCC]

Hey,

You strike me as a bit more open, *friendly*, and engaged than many sp-doms can be, so I'm not super convinced of the sp-dom. so-dom makes sense to me, but I don't know you well enough to know whether sx-dom would be a possibility. I have this thought though that a TJ who seems very friendly and polite and engaging is much more likely to so-dom, because there's an element of Fe-ish-ness and diplomacy (not Fe, mind you, but in another thread it was being discussed some of the crossover between so and Fe) in you that is absent in a lot of TJ's. Just another thought.

Thanks, cascadeco! That makes a lot of sense -- and it explains why people keep thinking I'm ESFJ or ENFP, on the forum. I do try to be diplomatic, also; I used to be bad at it (for reasons indirectly explained in the OP), but I've been working on it for a long time, and diplomatic ability has come naturally with maturity and ability to think clearly and objectively about controversial issues.

Agreed. I am a sp dom (sp/so) extrovert for sure. There are two distinct modes of socialization for me. In the one mode, I will be fairly engaged, talkative, excitable... interested in learning about people and stuff. My other mode is disengaged, monotone, "leave me alone to my thoughts"... I will automatically tune out. If I feel uncomfortable in the environment, I tend to go to my second mode. I have been described as "sweet but closed off". EJCC, you seem to be open and friendly for most of the interactions. Contrast that with me, "I am kind of 'hit and miss'" lol

My dad is probably ESFJ 3w2 So/Sp. He is typically always engaged but you get the sense that he's holding back. He will learn all about you and gain your trust through a repertoire of stories about others but in the end, you rarely learn much about him personally. He also gets rather cranky and sometimes complains a lot if things aren't to his preferences... if he doesn't eat on time or if he's in pain or in any discomfort.

I hope that helps.

It does! There are some aspects of it that resonate with me, although I'm still uncertain about them. For example, I relate a lot to the bolded, but I think that it has more to do with, as mentioned before, avoiding intimacy. I do feel like there's part of me that I'm always holding back, but if my conversations on the subject with [MENTION=7254]Wind-Up Rex[/MENTION] have been any indication, then it has more to do with being Te-dom, than anything else.

Re: tuning out... the only times I know that I tune myself out of conversations are when I get very angry and force myself to mentally leave the situation in order to calm down. I was talking to a friend of mine a while back who told me that it's very obvious when I do that.

However, I don't know if I do any other tuning out or anything similar, irl -- and I'd be curious to hear from other people who've talked to me irl, to see if they have insight into that. [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION]? [MENTION=7]Jennifer[/MENTION]? [MENTION=7063]SilkRoad[/MENTION]? Also, [MENTION=4532]Lightyear[/MENTION], do you think I'm sp/sx from when we met, also?

I always thought you were Sx first because you seem really enthusiastic and willing to go on an adventure, but perhaps I was mistaken? If someone said, "Hey, let's go skydiving! Now!" how would you respond?

I would always say yes, with the exception of skydiving or other activities involving heights. Adventures are fun! But keep in mind, 7w6 is in my tritype.

 

[SilkRoad]

I didn't notice you "tuning out" when we met, not at all. I've been reading this thread and trying to think what your instinctual stacking might be. I am wary enough about trying to type people (either enneagram or MBTI) as I don't think I'm that good at it, and even people's "vibe" - unless perhaps I know them really well and have spent more time with them - doesn't necessarily help me a lot.

I'm kind of leaning toward sp/so or so/sp for you. I'm not sure about the sx. Some have suggested so/sx but my understanding is that so/sx is supposed to be kind of manic/hyper - which wasn't how you came off at all...!

 

[chickpea]

I'd say so/sp, definitely not social last. I just can't see sp/sx, you're too diplomatic or something.

 

[Southern Kross]

Mine might be a bit of a special case, because most of my friends live far away from me; my hometown is one one side of the country, and my university is on the other.

Yeah this makes it hard to tell.

Not really. I'm comfortable in groups. I have a switch that I flip in those situations -- "turning on the charm", I guess -- which pretty much guarantees that I'll have a good time on a shallow level. I tell stories, I make people laugh, I use imitation-Fe all over the place. The only time that I find socializing overwhelming, is when it requires me to stop being genuine. "Turning on the charm" only works well when I'm already having a good time, and when I get good vibes back from the attendees that reinforces my confidence and thus strengthens the charm power. If someone's forcing me to go to the party, and I don't want to be there, making it hard to flip that switch with any amount of success -- that's when I start feeling drained.

Sort of, and sort of. If I see someone and I want to get to know them, the first thing I'll do is chat them up about something interesting but unrelated to them personally, and then I connect those things to them as a person by asking them about their interests, etc. Pretty common approach, yes, but throughout that conversation, I'll be making a concerted effort to read their body language, their sense of humor, their style of speech, and read deeper into their personality and their motivations through surface observation. If I end up asking them deep questions -- which I'll do when it feels natural and "right" -- it'll be an attempt to find the missing pieces to the puzzle that I've already actively started putting together.

(This is starting to sound so/sx...)

Now we're getting somewhere. Yes, this sounds a lot like the Social instinct. What you're talking about is adaptability which is central to So. And the fact you can spread you attention in a broad manner and by finding commonalities also fits. This on top of the fact that you're not as interested in deep connection (which I earlier thought could have also been a Sp-first factor too) makes me think you are a Social-first. I take back what I said in the other thread.

I identify with a lot of what you're say. I'm not an extrovert (nor am I charming ) so it's on a much more pared back level - but fundamentally is the same. I know exactly what you mean about enjoying yourself on a shallow level.

Yes and yes, but to a very small degree. I didn't realize hot and cool was a thing, too, but it sounds like that might be more accurate -- especially considering your example with your sister, which is like something I would do but magnified x100. I might spend an hour or two in my pajamas, not talking to anyone, but definitely not an entire day!

From what I gather it's a bit like this: Sx = Hot, Sp = Cold, So = Cool. If you were sx/so or so/sx that would fit hot/cool (or the reverse). If this is the case that might be why you are a bit iffy about Sx - it would even it out the extremes and balance it out.

I feel like I'm as bothered by external discomfort as anyone would be if they aren't a sensotard. If I'm going to a party and it's cold out and I need to walk a ways to get there, I'm wearing a coat and I'm not wearing heels. If I know that I'd get hungry at the party, then I'll eat a granola bar or something before I get there. If I don't have a granola bar or anything around, or if there isn't time, I'll deal with it and just be hungry while I'm there -- which may be unpleasant, but whatever, hunger comes in waves anyway. The only external thing that I'm more sensitive to, than other people, is background music -- but that has more to do with being a musician, and the daughter of a musician, and also someone with really good relative pitch.

No to the first question -- I want them to feel at home mentally, more than anything. An exception would be if I was hosting a party that necessitated good food/drink. Yes to the second question, but I think that has more to do with my Enneagram.

Yeah, not that Sp at all then. The fact you're a J and a 1 on top of this and yet still are relatively blasé about all that, only emphasizes it further to me. I also see a lot more of that So adaptability in play here.

You make a convincing argument, here. If I am So-first, because of the example you quoted, then that would explain why So-dom type 1 descriptions never really resonated with me. They all assumed that I was still a crusader, when now I've programmed that part of myself to shut off whenever a hopelessly ignorant person starts to make me angry.

[MENTION=7254]Wind-Up Rex[/MENTION] does make a good point.

I do want to emphasize that descriptions can be off-putting. Sometimes they're worded in a way that seems wrong at first but once you read other descriptions it makes a little more sense. It doesn't help that there is a lot of bias against Social instinct - people have all these stereotypes in their head that don't entirely match (I was put off at first for the same reasons). Sometimes it's just down to finding the right description. How about this one sound:

Social Ones: "Adaptable or Unadaptable"

• Sometimes I defend what I believe in so adamantly, it puts me on the outs with people.
• There are times when I really want to reform something or someone, but I quietly simmer rather than rock the boat. It's important to try to get along.
• I've been accused of being unyielding, but I deliberate carefully and thoroughly in forming my opinions and can see no reason to change them.
• I believe in cooperation, but I will not go along with anything that is completely against my principles.
• When people don't perform up to my standards, I feel I must set them straight.
• I am drawn to groups that share my ideals, but sometimes I end up overworking because the others don't get things done right. I often feel resentful and have to leave.

Thanks, cascadeco! That makes a lot of sense -- and it explains why people keep thinking I'm ESFJ or ENFP, on the forum. I do try to be diplomatic, also; I used to be bad at it (for reasons indirectly explained in the OP), but I've been working on it for a long time, and diplomatic ability has come naturally with maturity and ability to think clearly and objectively about controversial issues.

Interesting. Diplomacy definitely fits with social instinct. It's also interesting because that would create a sense of struggle with your 1-ness: anger, needing to correct others, needing to assert your ethics/ideology. The Social instinct demands propriety and discretion, and would attempt to temper those e1 drives.

The sorts of words I associate with my So instinct (and I've realised recently that I use them a lot) are "(in)appropriate" (ie. measured, proportionate), "(un)necessary", "balanced", "(im)polite", "(dis)respect". These are central to how I interact with others. So you could still be a "crusader" but feel a sense of conflict over whether you should assert yourself. Part of you says it's essential that you set people right, and another part says you should pick your battles, be even-handed and tailor your responses so that they are proportionate to the situation.

 

[Glycerine]

I definitely vote so dom. . My father is very into appropriate/inappropriate, disrespect/respect, etc but usually won't "crusade" for it unless he sees it as people crossing boundaries or it affects the group on a big scale. He's pretty relaxed about dictating what others should be doing or how things should go. I see it as more of a self preservation thing as not to get involved in people's messes. Regardless, he is always aware of the dynamics. It probably is different with so/sx though.

 

[SD45T-2]

You make a convincing argument, here. If I am So-first, because of the example you quoted, then that would explain why So-dom type 1 descriptions never really resonated with me. They all assumed that I was still a crusader, when now I've programmed that part of myself to shut off whenever a hopelessly ignorant person starts to make me angry.

I know what you mean.

In 2008 I was at an air show with primarily Navy and Marine Corps aircraft. I actually got to see a Harrier perform! Anyway, at one point I was talking to a Marine who was doing security and he told me his M16 (I think it was an A1) was chambered in 7.62mm NATO. I tried to tell him it was 5.56mm NATO, but that didn't work. I decided to drop it because it wasn't a huge deal and he was holding a loaded gun.

 

[EJCC]

I'd say so/sp, definitely not social last. I just can't see sp/sx, you're too diplomatic or something.

That's fair, actually. What do you think about so/sx?

I didn't notice you "tuning out" when we met, not at all. I've been reading this thread and trying to think what your instinctual stacking might be. I am wary enough about trying to type people (either enneagram or MBTI) as I don't think I'm that good at it, and even people's "vibe" - unless perhaps I know them really well and have spent more time with them - doesn't necessarily help me a lot.

Plus, I dunno if it was fair to ask you, since we only met once. Sorry about that.

I'm kind of leaning toward sp/so or so/sp for you. I'm not sure about the sx. Some have suggested so/sx but my understanding is that so/sx is supposed to be kind of manic/hyper - which wasn't how you came off at all...!

I wonder if it's as manic/hyper with Ones... We're not exactly the most manic/hyper type out there. Intriguing.

I know exactly what you mean about enjoying yourself on a shallow level.

Yep, it's how I interact most often. I do find myself wishing that I had deeper connections with people, but I'm so picky and so wary of being hurt that it rarely happens. (Also MBTI-related, I think.)

From what I gather it's a bit like this: Sx = Hot, Sp = Cold, So = Cool. If you were sx/so or so/sx that would fit hot/cool (or the reverse). If this is the case that might be why you are a bit iffy about Sx - it would even it out the extremes and balance it out.

Seems reasonable. I definitely don't feel like I'm cool/cold. I don't think I come across like that, irl. Are you thinking so/sx, then?

Sometimes it's just down to finding the right description. How about this one sound:

My thoughts are in bold:

Social Ones: "Adaptable or Unadaptable"

• Sometimes I defend what I believe in so adamantly, it puts me on the outs with people. (I avoid this like the plague.)
• There are times when I really want to reform something or someone, but I quietly simmer rather than rock the boat. It's important to try to get along. (So true. All the freaking time. This is exactly what I was describing, i.e. withdrawing from the conversation to let myself calm down, and not letting myself flip out at people unless it's worth it.)
• I've been accused of being unyielding, but I deliberate carefully and thoroughly in forming my opinions and can see no reason to change them. (Only with things that I really, really care about. I try to be open-minded about everything except my core beliefs.)
• I believe in cooperation, but I will not go along with anything that is completely against my principles. (True.)
• When people don't perform up to my standards, I feel I must set them straight. (When there won't be repercussions, yes. Strategy is important, here.)
• I am drawn to groups that share my ideals, but sometimes I end up overworking because the others don't get things done right. I often feel resentful and have to leave. (This has happened to me before. Generally I'll leave before it gets to the point of me having to do everyone else's work; I refuse to do their jobs, because I refuse to be a doormat.)

So, I think I'm pretty much convinced of So-first, at this point. What's been throwing me, is that So 1 descriptions have been assuming that I've been acting on all my urges to correct people, when oftentimes that is so contrary to what is in not only my best interest, but the best interest of the principle itself.

Interesting. Diplomacy definitely fits with social instinct. It's also interesting because that would create a sense of struggle with your 1-ness: anger, needing to correct others, needing to assert your ethics/ideology. The Social instinct demands propriety and discretion, and would attempt to temper those e1 drives.

It also tends to be contrary to my Te. And yes, it's a struggle. But what drives me, and keeps me motivated to change, is that I don't want to be an asshole, and my memories of my days of being a 12-year-old asshole are still pretty vivid for me being 22. (Also, I've become a bit of a cynic, which helps. I've accepted that some things just can't be changed.)

The downside to all of this, is that while any other So 1w2 might try and fix other people, as a projection of seeing themselves as imperfect, I don't repress that knowledge of my own imperfection. It's always there, and I'm always aware of it, so I end up being my own worst enemy; other people don't get nearly the same level of criticism that I do.

The sorts of words I associate with my So instinct (and I've realised recently that I use them a lot) are "(in)appropriate" (ie. measured, proportionate), "(un)necessary", "balanced", "(im)polite", "(dis)respect". These are central to how I interact with others. So you could still be a "crusader" but feel a sense of conflict over whether you should assert yourself. Part of you says it's essential that you set people right, and another part says you should pick your battles, be even-handed and tailor your responses so that they are proportionate to the situation.

I relate to 100% of that.

I definitely vote so dom. . My father is very into appropriate/inappropriate, disrespect/respect, etc but usually won't "crusade" for it unless he sees it as people crossing boundaries or it affects the group on a big scale. He's pretty relaxed about dictating what others should be doing or how things should go. I see it as more of a self preservation thing as not to get involved in people's messes. Regardless, he is always aware of the dynamics. It probably is different with so/sx though.

I wonder how that's different. I relate to a lot of that, but I dunno about self-pres.

I know what you mean.

In 2008 I was at an air show with primarily Navy and Marine Corps aircraft. I actually got to see a Harrier perform! Anyway, at one point I was talking to a Marine who was doing security and he told me his M16 (I think it was an A1) was chambered in 7.62mm NATO. I tried to tell him it was 5.56mm NATO, but that didn't work. I decided to drop it because it wasn't a huge deal and he was holding a loaded gun.

Sounds like a wise decision! Gotta pick your battles... especially when he's armed and you're not!

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Sp/So descriptions all seem to emphasize being stoic, serious, uptight, etc, and I never related to any of those. (That could be the 7 in my tritype, though.) I related marginally more to Sp/Sx, which is why I listed myself as such for a time, but several Sx-users including [MENTION=7842]Z Buck McFate[/MENTION] and [MENTION=13402]Saturned[/MENTION] sent me messages saying that they didn't get the Sx "vibe" from me.

I think what I said is that I don’t get the least so variant vibe (?), but sx wouldn’t really surprise me. A ‘least’ variant often shows up as a sort of callousness, because essentially it’s a challenged ability to empathize with a certain need and it shows up as an occasional irritability with that need in others- but not everyone has it. And there are people here who seem to me to have a certain callousness I associate with a certain stacking yet they identify differently, so I’m not 100% about it anyway. I don’t really see *any* of the callousnesses in you, so I don’t especially have an opinion (fid is someone else I don’t see any of the callousness in) except that I’d guess so variant isn’t least for you. You know, according to the very scientific and objective *vibe theory*, so take it ‘fwiw’.

There are things you wrote in the op that indicate (to me, *vibe theory*) you’re not least sx variant either- but I wanted to at least post this much, with the hope that I’ll get back to it.