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  1. #11
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I always thought you were Sx first because you seem really enthusiastic and willing to go on an adventure, but perhaps I was mistaken? If someone said, "Hey, let's go skydiving! Now!" how would you respond?
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  2. #12
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Hey,

    You strike me as a bit more open, *friendly*, and engaged than many sp-doms can be, so I'm not super convinced of the sp-dom. so-dom makes sense to me, but I don't know you well enough to know whether sx-dom would be a possibility. I have this thought though that a TJ who seems very friendly and polite and engaging is much more likely to so-dom, because there's an element of Fe-ish-ness and diplomacy (not Fe, mind you, but in another thread it was being discussed some of the crossover between so and Fe) in you that is absent in a lot of TJ's. Just another thought.
    Agreed. I am a sp dom (sp/so) extrovert for sure. There are two distinct modes of socialization for me. In the one mode, I will be fairly engaged, talkative, excitable... interested in learning about people and stuff. My other mode is disengaged, monotone, "leave me alone to my thoughts"... I will automatically tune out. If I feel uncomfortable in the environment, I tend to go to my second mode. I have been described as "sweet but closed off". EJCC, you seem to be open and friendly for most of the interactions. Contrast that with me, "I am kind of 'hit and miss'" lol

    My dad is probably ESFJ 3w2 So/Sp. He is typically always engaged but you get the sense that he's holding back. He will learn all about you and gain your trust through a repertoire of stories about others but in the end, you rarely learn much about him personally. He also gets rather cranky and sometimes complains a lot if things aren't to his preferences... if he doesn't eat on time or if he's in pain or in any discomfort.

    I hope that helps.

  3. #13
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Hey,

    You strike me as a bit more open, *friendly*, and engaged than many sp-doms can be, so I'm not super convinced of the sp-dom. so-dom makes sense to me, but I don't know you well enough to know whether sx-dom would be a possibility. I have this thought though that a TJ who seems very friendly and polite and engaging is much more likely to so-dom, because there's an element of Fe-ish-ness and diplomacy (not Fe, mind you, but in another thread it was being discussed some of the crossover between so and Fe) in you that is absent in a lot of TJ's. Just another thought.
    Thanks, cascadeco! That makes a lot of sense -- and it explains why people keep thinking I'm ESFJ or ENFP, on the forum. I do try to be diplomatic, also; I used to be bad at it (for reasons indirectly explained in the OP), but I've been working on it for a long time, and diplomatic ability has come naturally with maturity and ability to think clearly and objectively about controversial issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    Agreed. I am a sp dom (sp/so) extrovert for sure. There are two distinct modes of socialization for me. In the one mode, I will be fairly engaged, talkative, excitable... interested in learning about people and stuff. My other mode is disengaged, monotone, "leave me alone to my thoughts"... I will automatically tune out. If I feel uncomfortable in the environment, I tend to go to my second mode. I have been described as "sweet but closed off". EJCC, you seem to be open and friendly for most of the interactions. Contrast that with me, "I am kind of 'hit and miss'" lol

    My dad is probably ESFJ 3w2 So/Sp. He is typically always engaged but you get the sense that he's holding back. He will learn all about you and gain your trust through a repertoire of stories about others but in the end, you rarely learn much about him personally. He also gets rather cranky and sometimes complains a lot if things aren't to his preferences... if he doesn't eat on time or if he's in pain or in any discomfort.

    I hope that helps.
    It does! There are some aspects of it that resonate with me, although I'm still uncertain about them. For example, I relate a lot to the bolded, but I think that it has more to do with, as mentioned before, avoiding intimacy. I do feel like there's part of me that I'm always holding back, but if my conversations on the subject with @Wind-Up Rex have been any indication, then it has more to do with being Te-dom, than anything else.

    Re: tuning out... the only times I know that I tune myself out of conversations are when I get very angry and force myself to mentally leave the situation in order to calm down. I was talking to a friend of mine a while back who told me that it's very obvious when I do that.

    However, I don't know if I do any other tuning out or anything similar, irl -- and I'd be curious to hear from other people who've talked to me irl, to see if they have insight into that. @Halla74? @Jennifer? @SilkRoad? Also, @Lightyear, do you think I'm sp/sx from when we met, also?
    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I always thought you were Sx first because you seem really enthusiastic and willing to go on an adventure, but perhaps I was mistaken? If someone said, "Hey, let's go skydiving! Now!" how would you respond?
    I would always say yes, with the exception of skydiving or other activities involving heights. Adventures are fun! But keep in mind, 7w6 is in my tritype.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  4. #14
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I didn't notice you "tuning out" when we met, not at all. I've been reading this thread and trying to think what your instinctual stacking might be. I am wary enough about trying to type people (either enneagram or MBTI) as I don't think I'm that good at it, and even people's "vibe" - unless perhaps I know them really well and have spent more time with them - doesn't necessarily help me a lot.

    I'm kind of leaning toward sp/so or so/sp for you. I'm not sure about the sx. Some have suggested so/sx but my understanding is that so/sx is supposed to be kind of manic/hyper - which wasn't how you came off at all...!
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  5. #15
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    I'd say so/sp, definitely not social last. I just can't see sp/sx, you're too diplomatic or something.

  6. #16
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Mine might be a bit of a special case, because most of my friends live far away from me; my hometown is one one side of the country, and my university is on the other.
    Yeah this makes it hard to tell.

    Not really. I'm comfortable in groups. I have a switch that I flip in those situations -- "turning on the charm", I guess -- which pretty much guarantees that I'll have a good time on a shallow level. I tell stories, I make people laugh, I use imitation-Fe all over the place. The only time that I find socializing overwhelming, is when it requires me to stop being genuine. "Turning on the charm" only works well when I'm already having a good time, and when I get good vibes back from the attendees that reinforces my confidence and thus strengthens the charm power. If someone's forcing me to go to the party, and I don't want to be there, making it hard to flip that switch with any amount of success -- that's when I start feeling drained.

    Sort of, and sort of. If I see someone and I want to get to know them, the first thing I'll do is chat them up about something interesting but unrelated to them personally, and then I connect those things to them as a person by asking them about their interests, etc. Pretty common approach, yes, but throughout that conversation, I'll be making a concerted effort to read their body language, their sense of humor, their style of speech, and read deeper into their personality and their motivations through surface observation. If I end up asking them deep questions -- which I'll do when it feels natural and "right" -- it'll be an attempt to find the missing pieces to the puzzle that I've already actively started putting together.

    (This is starting to sound so/sx...)
    Now we're getting somewhere. Yes, this sounds a lot like the Social instinct. What you're talking about is adaptability which is central to So. And the fact you can spread you attention in a broad manner and by finding commonalities also fits. This on top of the fact that you're not as interested in deep connection (which I earlier thought could have also been a Sp-first factor too) makes me think you are a Social-first. I take back what I said in the other thread.

    I identify with a lot of what you're say. I'm not an extrovert (nor am I charming ) so it's on a much more pared back level - but fundamentally is the same. I know exactly what you mean about enjoying yourself on a shallow level.

    Yes and yes, but to a very small degree. I didn't realize hot and cool was a thing, too, but it sounds like that might be more accurate -- especially considering your example with your sister, which is like something I would do but magnified x100. I might spend an hour or two in my pajamas, not talking to anyone, but definitely not an entire day!
    From what I gather it's a bit like this: Sx = Hot, Sp = Cold, So = Cool. If you were sx/so or so/sx that would fit hot/cool (or the reverse). If this is the case that might be why you are a bit iffy about Sx - it would even it out the extremes and balance it out.

    I feel like I'm as bothered by external discomfort as anyone would be if they aren't a sensotard. If I'm going to a party and it's cold out and I need to walk a ways to get there, I'm wearing a coat and I'm not wearing heels. If I know that I'd get hungry at the party, then I'll eat a granola bar or something before I get there. If I don't have a granola bar or anything around, or if there isn't time, I'll deal with it and just be hungry while I'm there -- which may be unpleasant, but whatever, hunger comes in waves anyway. The only external thing that I'm more sensitive to, than other people, is background music -- but that has more to do with being a musician, and the daughter of a musician, and also someone with really good relative pitch.
    No to the first question -- I want them to feel at home mentally, more than anything. An exception would be if I was hosting a party that necessitated good food/drink. Yes to the second question, but I think that has more to do with my Enneagram.
    Yeah, not that Sp at all then. The fact you're a J and a 1 on top of this and yet still are relatively blasé about all that, only emphasizes it further to me. I also see a lot more of that So adaptability in play here.

    You make a convincing argument, here. If I am So-first, because of the example you quoted, then that would explain why So-dom type 1 descriptions never really resonated with me. They all assumed that I was still a crusader, when now I've programmed that part of myself to shut off whenever a hopelessly ignorant person starts to make me angry.
    @Wind-Up Rex does make a good point.

    I do want to emphasize that descriptions can be off-putting. Sometimes they're worded in a way that seems wrong at first but once you read other descriptions it makes a little more sense. It doesn't help that there is a lot of bias against Social instinct - people have all these stereotypes in their head that don't entirely match (I was put off at first for the same reasons). Sometimes it's just down to finding the right description. How about this one sound:

    Social Ones: "Adaptable or Unadaptable"
    • Sometimes I defend what I believe in so adamantly, it puts me on the outs with people.
    • There are times when I really want to reform something or someone, but I quietly simmer rather than rock the boat. It's important to try to get along.
    • I've been accused of being unyielding, but I deliberate carefully and thoroughly in forming my opinions and can see no reason to change them.
    • I believe in cooperation, but I will not go along with anything that is completely against my principles.
    • When people don't perform up to my standards, I feel I must set them straight.
    • I am drawn to groups that share my ideals, but sometimes I end up overworking because the others don't get things done right. I often feel resentful and have to leave.


    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Thanks, cascadeco! That makes a lot of sense -- and it explains why people keep thinking I'm ESFJ or ENFP, on the forum. I do try to be diplomatic, also; I used to be bad at it (for reasons indirectly explained in the OP), but I've been working on it for a long time, and diplomatic ability has come naturally with maturity and ability to think clearly and objectively about controversial issues.
    Interesting. Diplomacy definitely fits with social instinct. It's also interesting because that would create a sense of struggle with your 1-ness: anger, needing to correct others, needing to assert your ethics/ideology. The Social instinct demands propriety and discretion, and would attempt to temper those e1 drives.

    The sorts of words I associate with my So instinct (and I've realised recently that I use them a lot) are "(in)appropriate" (ie. measured, proportionate), "(un)necessary", "balanced", "(im)polite", "(dis)respect". These are central to how I interact with others. So you could still be a "crusader" but feel a sense of conflict over whether you should assert yourself. Part of you says it's essential that you set people right, and another part says you should pick your battles, be even-handed and tailor your responses so that they are proportionate to the situation.
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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  7. #17
    Glycerine
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    I definitely vote so dom. . My father is very into appropriate/inappropriate, disrespect/respect, etc but usually won't "crusade" for it unless he sees it as people crossing boundaries or it affects the group on a big scale. He's pretty relaxed about dictating what others should be doing or how things should go. I see it as more of a self preservation thing as not to get involved in people's messes. Regardless, he is always aware of the dynamics. It probably is different with so/sx though.

  8. #18
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    You make a convincing argument, here. If I am So-first, because of the example you quoted, then that would explain why So-dom type 1 descriptions never really resonated with me. They all assumed that I was still a crusader, when now I've programmed that part of myself to shut off whenever a hopelessly ignorant person starts to make me angry.
    I know what you mean.

    In 2008 I was at an air show with primarily Navy and Marine Corps aircraft. I actually got to see a Harrier perform! Anyway, at one point I was talking to a Marine who was doing security and he told me his M16 (I think it was an A1) was chambered in 7.62mm NATO. I tried to tell him it was 5.56mm NATO, but that didn't work. I decided to drop it because it wasn't a huge deal and he was holding a loaded gun.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  9. #19
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    I'd say so/sp, definitely not social last. I just can't see sp/sx, you're too diplomatic or something.
    That's fair, actually. What do you think about so/sx?
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I didn't notice you "tuning out" when we met, not at all. I've been reading this thread and trying to think what your instinctual stacking might be. I am wary enough about trying to type people (either enneagram or MBTI) as I don't think I'm that good at it, and even people's "vibe" - unless perhaps I know them really well and have spent more time with them - doesn't necessarily help me a lot.
    Plus, I dunno if it was fair to ask you, since we only met once. Sorry about that.
    I'm kind of leaning toward sp/so or so/sp for you. I'm not sure about the sx. Some have suggested so/sx but my understanding is that so/sx is supposed to be kind of manic/hyper - which wasn't how you came off at all...!
    I wonder if it's as manic/hyper with Ones... We're not exactly the most manic/hyper type out there. Intriguing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I know exactly what you mean about enjoying yourself on a shallow level.
    Yep, it's how I interact most often. I do find myself wishing that I had deeper connections with people, but I'm so picky and so wary of being hurt that it rarely happens. (Also MBTI-related, I think.)

    From what I gather it's a bit like this: Sx = Hot, Sp = Cold, So = Cool. If you were sx/so or so/sx that would fit hot/cool (or the reverse). If this is the case that might be why you are a bit iffy about Sx - it would even it out the extremes and balance it out.
    Seems reasonable. I definitely don't feel like I'm cool/cold. I don't think I come across like that, irl. Are you thinking so/sx, then?
    Sometimes it's just down to finding the right description. How about this one sound:
    My thoughts are in bold:
    Social Ones: "Adaptable or Unadaptable"
    • Sometimes I defend what I believe in so adamantly, it puts me on the outs with people. (I avoid this like the plague.)
    • There are times when I really want to reform something or someone, but I quietly simmer rather than rock the boat. It's important to try to get along. (So true. All the freaking time. This is exactly what I was describing, i.e. withdrawing from the conversation to let myself calm down, and not letting myself flip out at people unless it's worth it.)
    • I've been accused of being unyielding, but I deliberate carefully and thoroughly in forming my opinions and can see no reason to change them. (Only with things that I really, really care about. I try to be open-minded about everything except my core beliefs.)
    • I believe in cooperation, but I will not go along with anything that is completely against my principles. (True.)
    • When people don't perform up to my standards, I feel I must set them straight. (When there won't be repercussions, yes. Strategy is important, here.)
    • I am drawn to groups that share my ideals, but sometimes I end up overworking because the others don't get things done right. I often feel resentful and have to leave. (This has happened to me before. Generally I'll leave before it gets to the point of me having to do everyone else's work; I refuse to do their jobs, because I refuse to be a doormat.)
    So, I think I'm pretty much convinced of So-first, at this point. What's been throwing me, is that So 1 descriptions have been assuming that I've been acting on all my urges to correct people, when oftentimes that is so contrary to what is in not only my best interest, but the best interest of the principle itself.
    Interesting. Diplomacy definitely fits with social instinct. It's also interesting because that would create a sense of struggle with your 1-ness: anger, needing to correct others, needing to assert your ethics/ideology. The Social instinct demands propriety and discretion, and would attempt to temper those e1 drives.
    It also tends to be contrary to my Te. And yes, it's a struggle. But what drives me, and keeps me motivated to change, is that I don't want to be an asshole, and my memories of my days of being a 12-year-old asshole are still pretty vivid for me being 22. (Also, I've become a bit of a cynic, which helps. I've accepted that some things just can't be changed.)

    The downside to all of this, is that while any other So 1w2 might try and fix other people, as a projection of seeing themselves as imperfect, I don't repress that knowledge of my own imperfection. It's always there, and I'm always aware of it, so I end up being my own worst enemy; other people don't get nearly the same level of criticism that I do.
    The sorts of words I associate with my So instinct (and I've realised recently that I use them a lot) are "(in)appropriate" (ie. measured, proportionate), "(un)necessary", "balanced", "(im)polite", "(dis)respect". These are central to how I interact with others. So you could still be a "crusader" but feel a sense of conflict over whether you should assert yourself. Part of you says it's essential that you set people right, and another part says you should pick your battles, be even-handed and tailor your responses so that they are proportionate to the situation.
    I relate to 100% of that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    I definitely vote so dom. . My father is very into appropriate/inappropriate, disrespect/respect, etc but usually won't "crusade" for it unless he sees it as people crossing boundaries or it affects the group on a big scale. He's pretty relaxed about dictating what others should be doing or how things should go. I see it as more of a self preservation thing as not to get involved in people's messes. Regardless, he is always aware of the dynamics. It probably is different with so/sx though.
    I wonder how that's different. I relate to a lot of that, but I dunno about self-pres.
    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    I know what you mean.

    In 2008 I was at an air show with primarily Navy and Marine Corps aircraft. I actually got to see a Harrier perform! Anyway, at one point I was talking to a Marine who was doing security and he told me his M16 (I think it was an A1) was chambered in 7.62mm NATO. I tried to tell him it was 5.56mm NATO, but that didn't work. I decided to drop it because it wasn't a huge deal and he was holding a loaded gun.
    Sounds like a wise decision! Gotta pick your battles... especially when he's armed and you're not!
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #20
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Sp/So descriptions all seem to emphasize being stoic, serious, uptight, etc, and I never related to any of those. (That could be the 7 in my tritype, though.) I related marginally more to Sp/Sx, which is why I listed myself as such for a time, but several Sx-users including @Z Buck McFate and @Saturned sent me messages saying that they didn't get the Sx "vibe" from me.

    I think what I said is that I don’t get the least so variant vibe (?), but sx wouldn’t really surprise me. A ‘least’ variant often shows up as a sort of callousness, because essentially it’s a challenged ability to empathize with a certain need and it shows up as an occasional irritability with that need in others- but not everyone has it. And there are people here who seem to me to have a certain callousness I associate with a certain stacking yet they identify differently, so I’m not 100% about it anyway. I don’t really see *any* of the callousnesses in you, so I don’t especially have an opinion (fid is someone else I don’t see any of the callousness in) except that I’d guess so variant isn’t least for you. You know, according to the very scientific and objective *vibe theory*, so take it ‘fwiw’.

    There are things you wrote in the op that indicate (to me, *vibe theory*) you’re not least sx variant either- but I wanted to at least post this much, with the hope that I’ll get back to it.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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