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Thread: INTP or INTJ?

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    Default INTP or INTJ?

    Hello. I'm wondering if I'm an INTP or INTJ, as I've been in doubt about this for quite a long time (mostly thanks to bad stereotypes). I've looked into the cognitive functions and got rid of a bunch of them (i.e. I'm certain I don't use Si or Se dominantly, nor Fi or Fe).

    I'll try posting some information about me that might be useful (if not, tell me what would be, please) :
    -I'm very driven, almost perfectionistic - if something doesn't live up to my standards, I want to alter it (including myself - for example, if I don't do so well in a test, I'll throw myself into studying for the next one as well as reviewing everything I did wrong).

    -I tend to be oblivious to my environment to a large extent - I didn't notice the electricity had cut off in my house until my laptop battery sign popped up saying it was discharging, then I realised I was sat in darkness. I also usually make two or three trips back to my room before I leave, due to either forgetting things or being convinced I've forgotten something. This has been commented on by a lot of people (my mum calls it 'being artistic' and I respond with calling it 'being stupid').

    -I'm not great with making conversation with people I don't know - I'm not good at small talk, so I tend to not say anything for quite a while, until I get where I stand with them. I've learnt to nod and smile at what people say in order to encourage them to talk to me. I don't see myself as having many friends (maybe one or two), but lots of people consider me a friend to them (which I can't understand).

    -I'm slightly neurotic in the way I feel the need to double- or triple-check things - I never trust myself to pack my back properly, so I check it several times before leaving, and I make sure my work's in order (even if that order is in piles of paper on the floor). I also take very good care of my possessions, unlike a lot of people I know, who will stuff books into their bags, not caring they get bent out of shape.

    -I'm usually very much 'to the point' in writing and conversations - I'm an under-writer for essays (well, used to be, as I've almost worked myself out of doing that) and I've been told I'm good at condensing big points into a couple of words.

    -My hobbies are reading, writing (mostly science-fiction), drawing occasionally, watching films and listening to music, but I'm interested in the link between biology and psychology to an almost obsessive level (when I was twelve or so, I used to spend hours researching mental illnesses - which my mum thought was unhealthy behaviour).

    -I can be very obsessive about things and used to re-read books and/or listen to one song repeatedly (this may be OCD, as it runs in my family).

    -I'm quite good at reading people, so if they act up, I can explain to them why they're acting the way they are (I know it's annoying to do so). I also spend time analysing people and how they react to certain things.

    -I'm not too concerned about getting into debates with people - I don't like conflict much, but if the topic's interesting, I don't mind.

    Hmm, I'm not sure what else to put. Please feel free to ask questions if it'll help.

    Thanks in advance for replies!

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    I remember I spent pretty much my whole time on this forum till the past month or so believing I was Ti dominant, either one, though after a little reflection on how my system of logic works, as well as my rather narcissistic and compulsive power tendencies for complete control, it became apparent that they did not fall in line with ISTP or INTP behavior or reasoning.

    Anyway, based on what I understand, INTP logic works in static categories and precise definitions, while INTJ logic works in a dynamic cause and effect system, where one transformation leads to another in an ever evolving contingency sequence. Take Einstein's relativity of unmoving reference points versus Newtononain mechanics of perpetual motion, for instance.

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    You sound like an INTJ to me though many of those things could be said about an INTJ or an INTP

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsumatachi_san View Post
    Hello. I'm wondering if I'm an INTP or INTJ, as I've been in doubt about this for quite a long time (mostly thanks to bad stereotypes). I've looked into the cognitive functions and got rid of a bunch of them (i.e. I'm certain I don't use Si or Se dominantly, nor Fi or Fe).

    I'll try posting some information about me that might be useful (if not, tell me what would be, please) :
    -I'm very driven, almost perfectionistic - if something doesn't live up to my standards, I want to alter it (including myself - for example, if I don't do so well in a test, I'll throw myself into studying for the next one as well as reviewing everything I did wrong).

    -I tend to be oblivious to my environment to a large extent - I didn't notice the electricity had cut off in my house until my laptop battery sign popped up saying it was discharging, then I realised I was sat in darkness. I also usually make two or three trips back to my room before I leave, due to either forgetting things or being convinced I've forgotten something. This has been commented on by a lot of people (my mum calls it 'being artistic' and I respond with calling it 'being stupid').

    -I'm not great with making conversation with people I don't know - I'm not good at small talk, so I tend to not say anything for quite a while, until I get where I stand with them. I've learnt to nod and smile at what people say in order to encourage them to talk to me. I don't see myself as having many friends (maybe one or two), but lots of people consider me a friend to them (which I can't understand).

    -I'm slightly neurotic in the way I feel the need to double- or triple-check things - I never trust myself to pack my back properly, so I check it several times before leaving, and I make sure my work's in order (even if that order is in piles of paper on the floor). I also take very good care of my possessions, unlike a lot of people I know, who will stuff books into their bags, not caring they get bent out of shape.

    -I'm usually very much 'to the point' in writing and conversations - I'm an under-writer for essays (well, used to be, as I've almost worked myself out of doing that) and I've been told I'm good at condensing big points into a couple of words.

    -My hobbies are reading, writing (mostly science-fiction), drawing occasionally, watching films and listening to music, but I'm interested in the link between biology and psychology to an almost obsessive level (when I was twelve or so, I used to spend hours researching mental illnesses - which my mum thought was unhealthy behaviour).

    -I can be very obsessive about things and used to re-read books and/or listen to one song repeatedly (this may be OCD, as it runs in my family).

    -I'm quite good at reading people, so if they act up, I can explain to them why they're acting the way they are (I know it's annoying to do so). I also spend time analysing people and how they react to certain things.

    -I'm not too concerned about getting into debates with people - I don't like conflict much, but if the topic's interesting, I don't mind.

    Hmm, I'm not sure what else to put. Please feel free to ask questions if it'll help.

    Thanks in advance for replies!
    You use a lot of qualifying words etc., your style seems INTP to me.

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    Thanks for the replies!
    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    I remember I spent pretty much my whole time on this forum till the past month or so believing I was Ti dominant, either one, though after a little reflection on how my system of logic works, as well as my rather narcissistic and compulsive power tendencies for complete control, it became apparent that they did not fall in line with ISTP or INTP behavior or reasoning.

    Anyway, based on what I understand, INTP logic works in static categories and precise definitions, while INTJ logic works in a dynamic cause and effect system, where one transformation leads to another in an ever evolving contingency sequence. Take Einstein's relativity of unmoving reference points versus Newtononain mechanics of perpetual motion, for instance.
    Would you mind elaborating on the bolded points? I'm curious as to what you mean by them.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    You sound like an INTJ to me though many of those things could be said about an INTJ or an INTP
    Is there anything in particular that points more at INTJ than INTP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    You use a lot of qualifying words etc., your style seems INTP to me.
    Hmm, I don't know about typing people based on writing styles - sure, there can be some overlap, but there are several variables, including upbringing, that can lead to this style being incorrect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsumatachi_san View Post
    Hmm, I don't know about typing people based on writing styles - sure, there can be some overlap, but there are several variables, including upbringing, that can lead to this style being incorrect.
    I don't know about typing people at all based on an online interaction - but you asked for it.

    I read your post and you didn't give many P/J indications, so I can only go on the overall "style". IMO this is better than specific things people say about themselves, because there it is easier to consciously control the information which is given, whereas the style is what it "shown" rather than "told".

    An INTJ may be introverted and given to fantasy/speculation, but they are still ultimately an organizer in their relation to the external world, they will be ordered and their actions efficient and with a clear goal, not chaotic. An xxxP can be organized for one or other specific project, work-related or in the case of some other commitment, but their general attitude to life will be to speculate about different options and then to see what happens.

    I think part of the issue is that society favours J-ness, i.e. we know that to survive we need to be organized etc., so we learn these skills. However the question is to think of your natural inclinations. OCD behaviours would not mean J-ness, as this is about organization and efficiency, not obsession with a rigid set of habits or way of thinking while the rest of ones personal space and life remains disorganized (which Ti-Si loop can lead to in case of an INTP, or Ti-Ni loop in case of an ISTP).

    Just one thing: no confirmed J I know, would have ever speculated about being a P, but many confirmed Perceivers I know of have speculated about being judgers.

    Finally, I recommend this psot on why many people mistype as INTJ (there have been many, but this one helped me a lot):

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1993072

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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    I don't know about typing people at all based on an online interaction - but you asked for it.

    I read your post and you didn't give many P/J indications, so I can only go on the overall "style". IMO this is better than specific things people say about themselves, because there it is easier to consciously control the information which is given, whereas the style is what it "shown" rather than "told".

    An INTJ may be introverted and given to fantasy/speculation, but they are still ultimately an organizer in their relation to the external world, they will be ordered and their actions efficient and with a clear goal, not chaotic. An xxxP can be organized for one or other specific project, work-related or in the case of some other commitment, but their general attitude to life will be to speculate about different options and then to see what happens.

    I think part of the issue is that society favours J-ness, i.e. we know that to survive we need to be organized etc., so we learn these skills. However the question is to think of your natural inclinations. OCD behaviours would not mean J-ness, as this is about organization and efficiency, not obsession with a rigid set of habits or way of thinking while the rest of ones personal space and life remains disorganized (which Ti-Si loop can lead to in case of an INTP, or Ti-Ni loop in case of an ISTP).

    Just one thing: no confirmed J I know, would have ever speculated about being a P, but many confirmed Perceivers I know of have speculated about being judgers.

    Finally, I recommend this psot on why many people mistype as INTJ (there have been many, but this one helped me a lot):

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1993072
    Your first point is valid Thanks for trying, though.

    Do you mean things like planning for the future, and ahead in general? Since I was very young, I've always had a plan for what I want to do and how to achieve that goal (although the goal has changed a little over the years, from Vet to Librarian to translator/teacher). It was often commented on how I seemed a lot more sure of my own mind than most children. I do have an order for my external environment, but it's very specific to me and pretty much no one else can use it - I have piles of paper on the floor, but each is in categories and so I can find anything I need (although vital stuff is kept on my desk). It's not traditional organisation with filing cabinets etc.

    Hm, I was initially typed as an INFJ when I started with the MBTI, however I was confident something wasn't quite right, so I looked into it a lot and made some typing threads and people said there was no way I could be an INTJ because (and I quote) I "write like a Feeler", which, of course, I took with more than a grain of salt, but I felt there was enough general consensus to seriously consider INTP as a type (I was briefly under INFP, but I knew that was wrong). I've never really fully connected with INFP or INFJ, but I see almost equal validity for INTP and INTJ, which, of course, isn't possible within the realms of this theory. Back when I initially decided I was a mistyped INFJ I was quite sure I was an INTJ, but the backlash against that was surprising.

    That post was quite helpful, thanks. The funny thing I find is that I'm very able to give a good run-down of what each function is like, but I can't put them together for myself (I can when attempting to type others). I think there are so many stereotypes around, it's difficult to find any good overall descriptions (especially as there are so many variations of each type around).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    I don't know about typing people at all based on an online interaction - but you asked for it.

    I read your post and you didn't give many P/J indications, so I can only go on the overall "style". IMO this is better than specific things people say about themselves, because there it is easier to consciously control the information which is given, whereas the style is what it "shown" rather than "told".

    An INTJ may be introverted and given to fantasy/speculation, but they are still ultimately an organizer in their relation to the external world, they will be ordered and their actions efficient and with a clear goal, not chaotic. An xxxP can be organized for one or other specific project, work-related or in the case of some other commitment, but their general attitude to life will be to speculate about different options and then to see what happens.

    I think part of the issue is that society favours J-ness, i.e. we know that to survive we need to be organized etc., so we learn these skills. However the question is to think of your natural inclinations. OCD behaviours would not mean J-ness, as this is about organization and efficiency, not obsession with a rigid set of habits or way of thinking while the rest of ones personal space and life remains disorganized (which Ti-Si loop can lead to in case of an INTP, or Ti-Ni loop in case of an ISTP).

    Just one thing: no confirmed J I know, would have ever speculated about being a P, but many confirmed Perceivers I know of have speculated about being judgers.

    Finally, I recommend this psot on why many people mistype as INTJ (there have been many, but this one helped me a lot):

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1993072
    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I see both of these tendencies, especially the latter.

    I see lots of people who are just simply nerdy (shy, essentially lives online, enjoys intellectual stuff) will type as INTJ and INTP. There is some glamor to the types (all the various celebrity types, which can spark some very silly arguments), but it's really just that the stereotypes match their self image.

    I see INTJs occasionally mistyping as INTPs, because they don't feel like they have the orderliness of a J.
    I see ISTJs occasionally mistyping as INTJs, because they're intellectual and rather smart.
    I see INFJs occasionally mistyping as INTJs, because (as CF mentioned) they've developed a hard, cynical edge.
    I see ISTPs occasionally mistyping as INTJs, because they're more practical than INTPs.

    I usually don't think it's because of the "coolness factor", though. Just an overall misconception of what the type means. If one thinks of type in a "result-oriented" way, then one is one's type because one fits the stereotype. If one thinks of type in a process-oriented way (as I do), then one is one's type because of how one thinks and processes information and ideas.
    The words I bolded in your quote Il Morto are in disagreement with the words I bolded in uumlau's quote.

    Still though, I do agree that as a generalization INTJs are more confident about their type than INTPs, though I would not necessarily agree about this being a universally applicable standard of measurement, at least not in all scenarios.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    I remember I spent pretty much my whole time on this forum till the past month or so believing I was Ti dominant, either one, though after a little reflection on how my system of logic works, as well as my rather narcissistic and compulsive power tendencies for complete control, it became apparent that they did not fall in line with ISTP or INTP behavior or reasoning.

    Anyway, based on what I understand, INTP logic works in static categories and precise definitions, while INTJ logic works in a dynamic cause and effect system, where one transformation leads to another in an ever evolving contingency sequence. Take Einstein's relativity of unmoving reference points versus Newtononain mechanics of perpetual motion, for instance.
    Quote Originally Posted by tsumatachi_san View Post
    Would you mind elaborating on the bolded points? I'm curious as to what you mean by them.
    To spell it out for you, INTJs tend to be more self assured than INTPs, hence the narcissism, and INTJs also tend to be more ordered (not organized) than INTPs, hence the compulsions, and finally, INTJs tend to be more driven towards the idea of accomplishing ultimate mastery upon the self and the world alike in masterminded schemes of maximizing achievement than INTPs, hence the power of complete control.

    Now as far as the second point goes, it is simply the TiNe axis versus the NiTe axis, the former being more about making connections between various frameworks and classications as well as finding leverage points to balance everything out into a single and significant whole, while the latter is more about following a straight line of reasoning of what implications logically follow from what in a chain moving from A which leads to B following from C meaning development D could conceive E and so forth. I think the biggest point of all to make is that TiNe is more in line with what is called Dedective reasoning, while NiTe is more in line with what is called Inductive reasoning, the former being more about absolutes like true and false, while the latter is more about about possibilities like what could be.

    In conclusion, I am humbly acknowledging that my understanding of Typology as well as the rules of logic is rather shallow, so don't take my points too seriously, and if any of it contradicts your own opinions as well as the empirical evidence on any of these subjects, please don't hesitate to correct those mistakes. All criticisms and any further input on the information I have presented above would also be greatly appreciated.

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    @RaptorWizard

    I hadn't noticed that. It's the one part I disagree with then from that post, as I have known a fair few INTJ's* and they are definitely very much more orderly than an NP!

    (yes this is possible, due to niche professional work and being involved in election campaigns, in areas where INTJ's, if not abound, can undoubtedly be found)!

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    Sorry for the awful formatting, but I'm going to write my comments in bold for speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    The words I bolded in your quote Il Morto are in disagreement with the words I bolded in uumlau's quote.

    Still though, I do agree that as a generalization INTJs are more confident about their type than INTPs, though I would not necessarily agree about this being a universally applicable standard of measurement, at least not in all scenarios.
    I can understand this. I have seen many INTJs asking about their types over on Personality Cafe, though. I think it depends a lot on how old the individual is, as younger people are more likely to be in doubt. I'm 20, so that could be a factor.

    To spell it out for you, INTJs tend to be more self assured than INTPs, hence the narcissism, and INTJs also tend to be more ordered (not organized) than INTPs, hence the compulsions, and finally, INTJs tend to be more driven towards the idea of accomplishing ultimate mastery upon the self and the world alike in masterminded schemes of maximizing achievement than INTPs, hence the power of complete control.
    So, INTJs are concerned with order which, to me, implies (in basic terms) knowing what's going on - i.e. making sure they know when deadlines are/when their appointment is/where they put their book etc. This is different from the categorising of the INTP, I suppose, in that it focuses on external objects (appointments etc. rather than the personal system of placing things in certain categories based on where they 'should go'). Is that correct? And INTPs are more likely to hop from one subject to the other, whereas INTJs are more likely to stick with one and do it to death?

    Now as far as the second point goes, it is simply the TiNe axis versus the NiTe axis, the former being more about making connections between various frameworks and classications as well as finding leverage points to balance everything out into a single and significant whole, while the latter is more about following a straight line of reasoning of what implications logically follow from what in a chain moving from A which leads to B following from C meaning development D could conceive E and so forth. I think the biggest point of all to make is that TiNe is more in line with what is called Dedective reasoning, while NiTe is more in line with what is called Inductive reasoning, the former being more about absolutes like true and false, while the latter is more about about possibilities like what could be.
    So INTJs are more likely to just get things done, while INTPs may prefer to go along at a slower pace, and INTJs are likely to reach a conclusion quickly, whereas INTPs will take longer about it (due to INTJs allowing for an incorrect conclusion and INTPs preferring to be definite?).

    In conclusion, I am humbly acknowledging that my understanding of Typology as well as the rules of logic is rather shallow, so don't take my points too seriously, and if any of it contradicts your own opinions as well as the empirical evidence on any of these subjects, please don't hesitate to correct those mistakes. All criticisms and any further input on the information I have presented above would also be greatly appreciated.
    No, I appreciate any input. It helps me think things out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    @RaptorWizard

    I hadn't noticed that. It's the one part I disagree with then from that post, as I have known a fair few INTJ's* and they are definitely very much more orderly than an NP!
    I've noticed there's a lot of talk about INTJs being neat and tidy - is this actually the case, or is it just more probable because of their need for an ordering system? I tend to be halfway between - being able to find everything I need, but not putting in order in a conventional way (i.e. because I use certain books often, I'll keep them on the arm of the sofa where I usually sit, whereas my mum thinks I should keep them on the shelf).
    (yes this is possible, due to niche professional work and being involved in election campaigns, in areas where INTJ's, if not abound, can undoubtedly be found)!
    Thanks again for the input It's very helpful and interesting.

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