• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

?

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
They are better off taking their time, focusing on mastery and precision, both of which come quite naturally to their Ti. Rather than trying to create something entirely new (e.g., a new “theory of everything”) with hopes of being recognized as an ingenious creator, INTPs are generally better suited for refining (Ti) or expanding upon (Ne) existing theories.
lol. Patronizing much?
Heaven knows no INTP has ever thought of anything original or paradigm-shifting.

And Darwin and Kant aren't good examples of anything other than chronic repression.
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Saw it somewhere, little glimpse. May've appeared so without being so, as I've mentioned earlier.


Can you relate to me at all?

By the way, wasn't Einstein an INTP?
No, but I haven't been 12 for a long time.
 

christicake

New member
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Messages
21
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
lol. Patronizing much?
Heaven knows no INTP has ever thought of anything original or paradigm-shifting.

And Darwin and Kant aren't good examples of anything other than chronic repression.

I agree, the guy who wrote it is patronizing at some point or another to all the types. In retrospect, it wasn't the best thing to put out there. I think what he has to say about INTJ development is worse actually. :p

I was hoping it would get [MENTION=15978]Typoz[/MENTION] to click on the link and read, because there are other helpful insights to the other types as well as further reading on INTPs :3
 

christicake

New member
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Messages
21
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Saw it somewhere, little glimpse. May've appeared so without being so, as I've mentioned earlier.



I don't seek affirmation and I don't have the "need" for "the theory of everything." My need is simpler - I want to express my ideas about various things and be able to do whatever I want. The latter is equivalent to having a huge bank account; the former is equivalent to means like writing, giving public speeches, developing video games, software or movies. etc.. Possibly refining some ideas as well, in cases where I have an idea how to improve something. However, that wouldn't include expressing it for someone else to do it. I want to do everything myself to have control over it, and in the end, credit for doing it. However, not for public affirmation, but as something that I feel is "right" in regards to people taking others' ideas and claiming that it's their work.

As far as grandiose truths go, I would rather to read about it, or even better - speak directly to the discoverer/inventor and other scientists to see what it's based on and how valid it is.

I'm terribly sorry, I was completely in the wrong to post that horribly offensive paragraph. The link I gave you was meant to be helpful, but I picked the COMPLETE wrong paragraph to show you. *facedesk* My intention really is to help you. I would recommend going to the site I gave you and clicking on "The Types" see if you can find one that you relate to, because I think that Dr. A.J. Drenth insights about each type's personal growth could be useful to you.
 
W

WALMART

Guest
Did I just invent something publicly? :D

Link me to them, I wanna see what you're gonna post.


No, I don't think your theory is correct still. But all thought has merit, therefore, interesting.


http://www.famoustype.com/functions.htm


http://www.timeenoughforlove.org/Notation.htm


The first link has information that discredits your theory, around the beginning. The inferior function is the weakest preferred and last developed function ("statistically"), not a "stabilizer" to the primary function. The second link teaches you how to identify function order based off of MBTI typing, in case you haven't learned yet. Handy to have, I suppose.


Again, since this is not a hard science, it is all speculatory. I speculate you to be incorrect in your understanding.
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Too bad it was a long time ago, otherwise you could remember how you were when you were 12 and help me out here!! :(:(

What do you need help with? Solitary masturbation is preferable to joining a circle jerk. (to summarise your earlier comments)
 

emmapeel

New member
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Messages
38
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
1w2
Two things:

Your F and S are clearly a lot less important in your personality than your T and N. And you are clearly an I. This leaves INTJ and INTP as your only options. Read about them and pick one. If you are unable to decide you are probably an INTP.

As an INFJ (and a human) I find it sad that you haven't realised yet that independence and richness are usually the result of connecting with people and the outer world instead of disconnecting and cultivating a misplaced feeling of superiority.

Edit: something extra. You say: "My need is simpler - I want to express my ideas about various things and be able to do whatever I want." That's Statler and Waldorf. You are way too young to be or to aspire to be Statler and Waldorf...
 

Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
6,266
Two things:

Your F and S are clearly a lot less important in your personality than your T and N. And you are clearly an I. This leaves INTJ and INTP as your only options. Read about them and pick one. If you are unable to decide you are probably an INTP.

As an INFJ (and a human) I find it sad that you haven't realised yet that independence and richness are usually the result of connecting with people and the outer world instead of disconnecting and cultivating a misplaced feeling of superiority.

Edit: something extra. You say: "My need is simpler - I want to express my ideas about various things and be able to do whatever I want." That's Statler and Waldorf. You are way too young to be or to aspire to be Statler and Waldorf...

 
R

Riva

Guest
Two things:

Your F and S are clearly a lot less important in your personality than your T and N. And you are clearly an I. This leaves INTJ and INTP as your only options. Read about them and pick one. If you are unable to decide you are probably an INTP.

As an INFJ (and a human) I find it sad that you haven't realised yet that independence and richness are usually the result of connecting with people and the outer world instead of disconnecting and cultivating a misplaced feeling of superiority.

Edit: something extra. You say: "My need is simpler - I want to express my ideas about various things and be able to do whatever I want." That's Statler and Waldorf. You are way too young to be or to aspire to be Statler and Waldorf...

And people here we see a rare instance of the famous brutal NiTi dragon burning someone alive. Please Cecile do tell me that you are a male INFJ. They are rare here.

Riva - First thought - he as a lot of questions. He has an Eminem quote in his signature, and I don't like Enminem, nor that quote: while it says that we shouldn't judge people by some criteria, it also says that you'll be nice to someone if he's nice to you; I wouldn't be nice to a religious nut, as nice as he may be to me with his nonsense. I find his numbered questions odd, however I have a similar approach when I want for my concrete questions to be answered. I noticed that sometimes he uses multiple question marks, which I find annoying, in any concept. I also dislike how he replies with a few simultaneous replies, after creating the initial thread for example. There's edit function if you are so rushed to click "post" for some reason...

Whaaaaaat?????????
You find it annoying when I use multiple question marks????
Your don't like my Eminem signature either????
You don't like religious nuts either????
How could you not like religious nuts because in this forum we all like religious nuts????
You must be sooooooo unique????
I reply with a few simultaneous replies???
Do you mean to say that I am quick to post without having a need for things to be more thorough????

In your defense I don't like Eminem either nor do I like religious nuts especially the ones who are following the religion that I adhere to.

In your disfavour you obviously took Eminem's (whom I dislike myself) quote too literally. He probably meant.... no I'll let you figure that one out.

What did you mean by a simultaneous posts? I make sure to pour most if not all my thoughts in to one post and not to leave anything out. I sometimes leave a loophole here and there if I believe that point would not be noticed or be addressed or isn't worth addressing. I keep my posts.....
 

emmapeel

New member
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Messages
38
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
1w2
[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION] Last time this dragon checked she was definitely female. And I quite like your Eminem signature.
 

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
9,581
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
First and foremost - feel free to ask any questions.

I have always thought I am INTP, liked ENTPs, wanted to be INTJ, thought ENTJs are stupid. Reasons, respectively: Personality tests said so; they are fun, deduced from the movie character "Iron Man"; they achieve something; in the movies they are presented as those spitting fat guys, cleaning sweat from their foreheads and ordering everyone around to do everything. However, I have investigated more about the types recently, and I've found out that my information about the types wasn't all that well presented, including INTPs. I am even in doubt of what type I am!

I think this problem is partly here because I haven't had much experience yet. I'm 21, all I did was finish high-school. I don't have a job because they job market can offer me jobs like carrying crates or working the cash register in a supermarket and I'm not up for that. I didn't go to college because we had no money to pay for it. I didn't do good in school because I wasn't interested in the out-dated, non-English and pointless subjects presented there, I might have spend 8 hours studying throughout 12 years of school, I haven't ever read a book appointed by the literature class, I have also skipped school quite a lot, especially in latter grades. In short, my grades were either very low or very high, rarely I got something in the middle, and so my end result was very average, which meant me not getting free scholarship. Most people in my city are either emotionally-driven, tradition and respect-driven or elitists (you have no money, you're inferior to us). The latter is relatively rare. I also do not like partying, getting drunk, using drugs, so I have almost nothing in common with most people and I haven't found a friend or a bunch of friends with whom I would have something in common. I wouldn't mind hanging out with a bunch of people if I was in a good physical shape to confront their irrational thinking and get into rationally driven arguments with them, but I like my health too much, considering most people are rather athletic and primal. What I wanted to say is that I have little experience interacting with people, however I do have imagination and I'm able to determine what would be the most likely scenario. I can also relate to movies, therefore I will be relating to situations portrayed in various movies when describing myself.

So! Now that we have cleared the basis of my description, let's get to the actual description, shall we?



I am generally nice to people when they are nice to me (post office worker, when asking questions and all), a clerk at a coffee store when buying coffee, etc.. However, I can't stand when someone is directing something illogical or irrational towards me, enforcing an opinion, making a decision that involves me, telling me to do something, etc.. I question those things, I often am sarcastic and very argumentative. Sometimes I switch sides to have fun and see if the person notices and what he would say, and I win the argument 99% of the time, even if I may not know much about the subject (this is a real life experience). If interacting with someone unknown and the approach is nice, I may even appear a little nicer version of Iron Man. When I was younger and I knew the people I was talking to (I was VERY shy, my parents didn't expose me to any kids for their ESFJ-based reasons), people used to say that I "don't look for words in my pocket," which I think means that I can talk my way out of anything, with which I do agree based on the little experience I had.

I view the world very logically, I do not run it through any value systems or emotions in my mind, I just view it realistically. In situations requiring judgement, I consider all the possibilities; while unrealistic possibilities come to my mind, I do think and decline them realizing that that is an unlikely outcome. When I'm exposed to a new situation, I make a judgement when I receive the first very few facts and then tailor it according to the information flow that I get from the unraveling events; my judgement is dynamic, although it is often correct before I gather all that additional information.

I have mentioned that I do not like parties, getting drunk, using drugs, I also don't like sports or any physical activity. I have also mentioned that I dislike people making decisions under the influence of tradition and strict rules or emotion, as I like rationality. I can talk to them, but I get annoyed rather quickly by their lack of logic. I don't know if that means that I'm an introvert, because I do not mind talking to people with similar interests. In fact, I absolutely love sharing my opinion and the flow of various possibilities I get to my mind. When I was in highschool, I used to sometimes hang out with this ExFx guy. He got a new job as a night shift clerk and I went to check it out, I was bored because my PC was slow and I couldn't do what required resources, and that was what i wanted to do at the moment. I was also surprised that he got the job, as he's a pothead who's moto is "have fun, die young." After I arrived, I have spend probably around 3 hours talking, non-stop, about various stuff, software, future of the computers, world war 2, apocalypse, light future, some movie, games, hardware, you name it. He barely opened his mouth, and he looked interested, as I was shooting creative and unique (at least to me) ideas. I stopped when he was falling asleep because it's a nightshift and it's his first day. I probably would've talked for another 2 hours. I also would like to talk to a group of people about things like that (intellectual conversations, theorizing, etc.), or maybe even in front of an audience.

This is my ideal future: an interactive big house in which I can fit a lot of stuff, including a server room; a quality car that i like; a bunch of computers, hardware and other stuff like that; a job that makes my ideas see the world, like a software company or a video game company where I could manage the team and make sure that what they are doing is the software or game how I want it to look like in a non-despotic way how people seem to say most companies are managing such things; either no girlfriend (not wife!) or a girlfriend who completely understands me and doesn't do illogical things, but also can respond when I'm talking to her in a somewhat minorily emotional way; no pets; enough money to buy what I want; no travels; possibly funding some big project or working as a side-project on one myself (that I am interested in, not that benefits the humanity).

I see myself as brutally honest (unless there is serious consequences, like getting hit in the face) guy, who has very high yet realistic standards. Someone who has a lot of ideas and is motivated by the need to get them out of his head to the real world. Someone who is nice as long as people are not being irrational or stupid. Someone who prefers being sarcastic and likes irony but knows the limits and mostly predicts actions of the others in certain situations. Someone who is able to see things in both light and dark sight, with great analytical skills. Someone with little friends due to the differences of logic/emotion/tradition. Someone who likes arguing and winning the arguments. Someone who likes talking about his ideas and both realistic and unrealistic (utopian and chaotic, apocalyptic) possibilities. Someone who could manipulate someone to benefit himself if needs be, however prefers to be honest. Someone who respects individuality and strives for freedom (not answering to someone else or rules). Someone who likes figuring things out. Someone who likes change and is open to new ideas.

My ultimate life goal is to satisfy my needs, which is equivalent to live an interesting life.

I guess I covered enough, though I am confident that I have missed quite a few things.

Most of that is fairly typical to most NTP's, but you do seem to lean to the introverted side. You are not enneagram 9 like me, most likely your enneagram type is 4.

Fluffywolf - he sometimes overuse words like "like, often, maybe," especially the word "like" is annoying to see in writing; he makes mistakes by skipping certain things in his text, which looks "different" to me. I've also noticed that he uses a lot of punctuation where he shouldn't. He also seems quite emotionally attached to people, caring about his brother and his girlfriend, only because he's his brother and she's his girlfriend. May not be "only," however that was his argument in one of his posts, but still, I wouldn't care about my brother's girlfriend nor my brother, unless we were real good friends and spending a lot of time together or he would be useful to me. He seems too caring about people in comparison to me; my dad's brother is in a hospital right now, waiting for the results if he has malicious cancer, and I don't care one bit. He has been involved a lot in our family affairs, he even lives close-by. Also, some of his posts are questioning how one should act, I never do that. I have my own opinion and I do what I want regardless of what others thing or say that I should do. I may, however, take an advice, but I will still tailor it into my original logical conclusion rather than using it as-is, and I am unlikely to ask for such in the first place.

Most of that has more to do with me being enneagram nine, not me being INTP. And quite possibly with our difference of perspectives of what part of the our world is most important to us. In the case of my brother for example. His issues are indirectly my issues, as we need to work closely together due to the situation in our company. Much of my consideration for his issues, stems from a selfish need of my own situation in it all. But part is also my perspective in that if people around me are happy and healthy, that helps keep me happy and healthy as well. I suppose, that's still selfish though. :D

My impression of you is INTP though. I do relate to a lot of things you say. Perhaps I'm not as black and white of it all, but as I said, I think that is more because of our subconscious differences (enneagram).

Riva Last time this dragon checked she was definitely female. And I quite like your Eminem signature.

Let me know if you want a second opinion on that. You can never be too sure these days.
 

The Great One

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,439
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
6w7
[MENTION=15978]Typoz[/MENTION]

The Great One - "Hey people of TypoC, listen!", I find that annoying, pointless and stupid. First thought after seeing one of his posts. Second thought - I can't be religious, and he is only starting to question it, what is he, 10? I can't say much about him, though I've noticed that he's posting a lot about morals, regulations, somewhere even have mentioned that he needed someone to dictate them to him. I can't relate to that at all.

I have often questioned my type in the past. There is a small chance that I am actually an ENFP with well developed Te. However, I seem to use a hell of a lot of Fe, have a shitload of Ne, and see virtually no Fi or Si in myself, so I assume that I am ENTP. This may be why you find it hard to relate to me. You personally show zero Fe, and are extremely blunt, and come off as extremely unfriendly. Given all of this information, you really seem like a thinking-dom. You come off INTP to me, although I could also see you as INTJ. You don't come off ENTP at all.
 
R

Riva

Guest
[MENTION=15978]Typoz[/MENTION] you have truly horrible observational skills (either that or you confused me with someone else). I always always make it a point to use the edit function and add additional thoughts than post again and again in the same thread. I always do this due to two reasons. One I like to correct my grammar/spelling mistake and the other being I simply like to add all thoughs into one post/leave no loopholes/structure my posts/etc. I only post again and again if someone quotes me/questions me/adds more points that I could or should questio or elaborate on etc. The reason why I said your observations are truly horrible is, even in fluff threads I use the edit function to add more thoughts than post again and again.
 

Arkigos

New member
Joined
Oct 2, 2012
Messages
45
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
xxx
The problem here is that we have not properly delineated the difference between NP and NJ. I am now fairly confident of which you are.

Confident because you have a bad algorithm... and confident because I don't think you will care.

To accomplish this task, I am going to have to channel David Keirsey for the duration of this post and focus on some words. May his spirit be with me.

The NJ orders the world around them and the NP organizes it. The importance is the word Order and Organize. To Order is Constructive and to Organize is Deconstructive. The Organizer does not judge... it merely categorizes and processes. The world sees the Organizer as an informative consultant. The Orderer judges the world and exerts its will upon the world. The world sees the Orderer as a critic and an overlord/leader.

The goal of the Orderer and the Organizer are different. The Orderer seeks for the world to make sense and to be in its best state. The Orderer does not trust the natural order of the world. And who is to deduce what constitutes 'sense' and what is the best state? The Orderer, of course - a pure will. The Organizer seeks for everything in the world to have it's place and to do what it does best, seeking not to manipulate the natural order of the world, but to discover it and tap into it. 'Sense' and the best state of the world already exist, they say, hidden by ignorance. The Organizer feels they are incapable of exerting their will upon the world. The notion is absurd. The Organizer is simply a vessel - a pure mind.

Which are you?
 

Arkigos

New member
Joined
Oct 2, 2012
Messages
45
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
xxx
The world is at it's best state - I wonder how INTPs agree with that. They hate the, what they call "S-world." But I'm gonna go with this and reply to your post.

Sure... we actually do tend to be quite at peace with the natural orders of the world. We seek to understand them utterly but do not typically seek to impose our wills on them. There is a certain optimism in the NTP... we tend to trust that once we figure everything out, pure understanding/knowledge, we will find everything has its own Order and we can make graphs describing it.

Then NTJ process is to constantly churn through externalized analysis to inform internalized abstract interpretations. This is, almost by definition, exerting ones Genius or Will upon the world as you logically perceive it. Critique to determine a better way (your way) - even if only in your head.

While I do understand the world, reasons behind actions and events, etc., however I do not agree with most of them. While I can tap into the world, I don't like doing it, because I like expressing myself and I like quality. Listening to someone else, in most cases means less quality as things aren't done my way, which equals to lower quality of the procedure and likely to outcome.



Example for understanding: I can understand why my grandpa gave away a part of this flat to our neighbors when they were buying the place: he likes giving, likes being liked, likes making other people happy, doesn't want conflicts that may make other people unhappy, is a Christian, is humble, etc.. However, I do not agree with his decision, I don't like that fact that now, when we're about to sell it, I'm gonna get a couple thousand dollars less.

Example for "tapping:" I can pretend to be someone else if I want to, and new people would believe that I'm that guy, whoever it is. However, I do not like it, therefore I don't do it. Exception is if there's benefit for me, and I'm talking huge benefit: I wouldn't pretend to be a nice and loyal worker for a year to get a small raise or something like that.

Example for the "aren't done my way" part: Many people are very careless and don't do things the best they can, or their best sucks. For example, my family members get their hair in almost every meal, therefore if I was to choose to order food, make it myself or let them make it, my first choice would be to order it, second make it myself. Another example is if I had say a game server, I wouldn't allow anyone else to manage it. The closest they would get is to call me. Unless they can obey the rules I gave them to follow (and of course not stupid, as judgement is needed here).


You conceptually misunderstood 'tapping' LOL and were right on the dot with Ordering.

External critical analysis to inform internal connections and 'Genius'. Your highly critical and ordered view of the aspects of your external world that you do or might care about is distinctly NJ.

An xNTP doesn't work like that at all. Externally looking for connections and patterns to inform internal analysis is the hallmark of NTP. This means NTP are rarely seen as critics, though we can be critical... we can hardly be bothered to even think about externalized criticism when there is a natural order to be uncovered and defined.

I have no hope whatsoever that you will be able to properly differentiate. I am fairly certain you are an xNTJ (tentative guess ENTJ) and a narcissist. Take that as you will.
 

Arkigos

New member
Joined
Oct 2, 2012
Messages
45
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
xxx
I mean that you meant that you trust in your opinion. You wouldn't actually trust an untrustworthy person after you figured that out, would you? Or an algorithm generating random numbers to generate 65. I think that's kinda... Obvious? Unless you're very insecure, then you may doubt your opinion. Or perhaps you're in an odd situation like me - I often figure something out (in this context, usually about the future), and there's a few people telling me otherwise, providing me with valid proof, etc., then I have to re-evaluate my claim, well... It's proof, right? In the end, I'm right in most cases though.

What does this have to do with trusting natural order? Nothing and is therefore pointless. Doubting ones own opinion may indicate insecurity for an NTJ but totally quintessential for NTP, who are more natural philosophers. For example, Socrates, the first known INTP(?) most famously said "...all I know is that I know nothing..." This quote resonates with NTP and is indicative of our trust in natural order and lack of pride or uptightness in our N, as we are Ne.

Anyway, whatever you meant, I don't see complaining (which is common for INTPs) as peace. I naturally understand things, often I don't even have to think about it for too long even if it's a rather difficult case, so understanding is the level below imposing. If the thing has an impact on me of course, as in the example in the post above. I can describe it, I understand how it "has" a place there, I can explain why it has a place there. I can offer 20 better solutions for it and if it concerns me, I am up for "correcting" the "problem."

INTPs are not commonly complainers. We are correctors and jesters. Not unlike I am doing to you now. That is because we are more prideful and uptight about process than genius. NTPs and NTJs will use similar language but it comes down to the fact that NTJ is more likely to be prideful about their Ni where NTP will be more prideful of their Ti. For example, I am quite proud right now that my logical processes are much better than yours (whether that is true or not) where you should be more prideful about your conclusions. I couldn't care less if I am right or wrong as long as my process is sound where you should be less concerned about the process as long as the conclusion is correct.

Don't xNTPs think of better ways to do things as well? :huh: At least in their heads.

Yes, but not in the way you conceive it. We are concerned about correct algorithms/processes more than correct ideas/conclusions. Ti Ne (tight with algorithm, open with ideas) vs Te Ni (tight with ideas, open with algorithms). Which is why NTJ will accuse the NTP of having the wrong conclusions/ideas (as you are doing to me) and the NTP will accuse the NTJ of faulty logical processes (as I am doing to you). Interestingly, we are both often correct.

I am critical unless my high standards (which I also have for myself) are met, or if there is a good reason why they are not met. I wouldn't talk to a boy because I thought he has potential or something like that that's shown in various movies, for example. Since there is criticism, that means that something's not as good as it could be, which is when the order comes. Today I witnessed someone taking out slices of pizza from the oven, and man that was nasty! The person has folded the pizza slices, mixed them with one another, turned it over, etc., it was painful to watch. I just took my own pizza slices after the person was done with giving the slices for everybody else. I took them nice and clean, without turning them over, folding them or any other problems.

I read this three times. You are, perhaps inadvertently?, just defining criticism as we all know it to be. I miss the point of defining what is already defined. Your way was better, yay! Glib criticism to support your internal sense of genius.

I'm analyzing plenty. It happens naturally, this is how one makes his opinions - he analyzes. I'm not sure what you mean then, especially when you mention that NTPs can be critical. The natural order you're talking about is enforced and imposed by the J types, and frankly, it's rather easy to understand. For me at least, but I assume it's the same for any NT type.

Yes, like all T types, you analyze. I, like all T types, am critical. You are not conceptualizing or delineating Te vs Ti: external, open, flippant, glib T vs internal, closed, thorough, careful T. Natural order, at least according to NTPs, is NOT easy to understand. This is why Socrates resonates with us. This is also why NTPs are often said to be haunted by an intangible fear of failure. We know we don't understand enough to have a real sense of security.
 

gretch

New member
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
111
MBTI Type
ENFP
I admit that I didn't read the whole thread or anything-it's long, but I got a few bits here and there to see that there is a sway that you may be an ENTJ. I have been typing for an awfully awfully long time. (12) The first thing I tell those I type is that their job in the beginning is to gather as much information as they possibly can, allow people to inform them and give them opinions. Ultimately though, there is not one person that knows you better than you know yourself. Therefore, the trick, or the essential point is obviously to have the most accurate information possible, because no one will be able to type you but you. Some may be right (or they be wrong, or half right or ...anything) but you won't actually believe, or it won't be useful to you until you have busted your tail to acquire the knowledge on your own.
This is not me saying anything about you personally, of course. I always have this little chat. Other people can only have so much input. The end.

So that being said, remember that I am just an informer -to your ultimate goal of finding your type. And it's amazing when you really get in sync with it, down to the very meat. It's been a huge game changer in the way I view humanity as I'll describe below.

Typing does not deal with character, morality, or level of intelligence:
Character:
There are three prominent ENTJ's in my life, family level ones. My brother-in-law, his daughter (my niece), and my Mentor that ironically enough got me on this whole kick. That mentor is, quite simply the greatest man, apart from my amazing husband (INTP) I have ever known in my life. His intellect is astounding, he wrote tons of scholarly articles on typing as well as for psychology magazines. He made his fortune in finance, He's prudent, wise, and every person in the room pauses when he speaks to hear him. I love him, as he plucked me out in my family full of S's (he was a college friend of my father's) where I felt odd and out of place, and told me what I was and helped me find purpose. He has been an enormous influence in my life-one of the greatest I would say.
My brother in law: is the most awful human being in the world. He is the same personality type and his methods and TYPE of intelligence are the same. But he is awful. He's dishonest and cruel. When in a room, if people aren't listening to him alone speak he displays active boredom, and when others speak he glosses over as though he think you don't know how much he is dismissing you. He thinks his intelligence is the greatest thing in the world and often regales us with stories aggrandizing himself. He is a perfectionist and SCREAMS at his children at the slightest infraction. He always claims that he just doesn't understand how other people can be stupid (when they don't agree with him, or make small traffic mishaps etc) But when he happens to do such, it is somehow somebody else's fault. He has devastated my parents numerous times because of his imaginative sense of justice, tearing the family apart and hurting my mom and dad like nothing else.

The difference between them is illuminating. My mentor once confided in me that he found the weakness of his character sometime in his twenties, He became aware that his need to be superior, and prove it so was the flaw. Truthfully, knowing my brother-in-law, he wants to be my mentor, to have that deference. But there there is no love offered where none is obtained-unless there is an abusive element.

My 8 year old ENTJ niece spent a car ride with me while she was in town tell me of her activities: tall, like her parents and awkward , like any N -she wanted to impress. "My friend is better at gymnastics, but I'm better at karate." "My sister is always copying me." (becoming legitimately angry and derisive as her sensitive sister could hear.) " It's not easy being the smartest girl in my class."
I told her: "Eva, my love. It is lonely to be the smartest girl, trust me I know :) But, the thing with you is that you will never have to prove that you are the smartest -and you will often be the best at many things. The trick for you will be to learn how to make friends."
 
Top