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View Poll Results: Amargith's MBTI?

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  • ISFP

    3 13.64%
  • INFP

    2 9.09%
  • ENFJ

    1 4.55%
  • INFJ

    0 0%
  • ENFP

    15 68.18%
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    1 4.55%
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I cringe at the w3's darker sides, but the truth is that I dont fret about the w5 ones, though they do hold me back in life and frustrate me so. If I could tap in more in the w3 strengths, my life would be a lot easier. Im working on it though, as I do recognise that once I do step into a community, I enjoy putting on a performance, to connect with its members and I do enjoy the recognition I get once I contribute to that community, though it isnt my primary motivation. More like a bonus. I think this might have something with my stacking though: sx-so.
    What is the difference between the 3-wing dark side vs. the 5-wing dark side?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Tbh, Ive always felt though that my w5 tendencies really kick the part of me that enjoys my w3 tendencies, as it sees it as inauthentic, and plain selfish. At the same time though, I realize that I will have to tap into it, if I ever want to accomplish something in my life...
    This has nothing to do with the 5-wing in my opinion. That's the 4-core rejecting what it sees as inauthentic. I don't think wings work like that.

    I hope I'm not intruding. It's just that your thread interests me.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    I don't really know what you're talking about. I mean... Someone quoted me saying something about non 3 enfps and I was just asking what they're talking about.

    I totally think amar is a type 4. I view the 4 w3 as more sultry and and sort of flamboyant or dramatic. She doesn't seem very w 5 to me but maybe it's more apparent irl. Idk.
    I use(d) the forum as a release valve for my w3 and sx-dom tendencies

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    What is the difference between the 3-wing dark side vs. the 5-wing dark side?

    This has nothing to do with the 5-wing in my opinion. That's the 4-core rejecting what it sees as inauthentic. I don't think wings work like that.

    I hope I'm not intruding. It's just that your thread interests me.
    You arent intruding, and its already been derailed from MBTI to enneagram anyways

    You are right, it is my 4 rejecting these my w3 and embracing w5 as my true identity. I was taught that attention whoring was evil, that acting and failing was the mark of an idiot and the pursuit of knowledge was essential, so that might have something to do with it.

    I reposted some of the info I gathered over the years on 4w3 and 4w5 for you so you can see the differences and the good and bad sides of both types


    Four with a Five Wing: The Bohemian

    Healthy

    Healthy 4w5's brings profound creativity and insights of the intrapsychic sort. Their emotions are more under-the-surface than 4w3's, and more private modes of communication (such as writing) are preferred. They have intellectual as well as emotional insights and can often synthesize experiences into something intensely personal yet timeless.

    Average

    Average 4w5's are devoted to cultivation of a personal worldview, often by philosophical or artistic means. They are more likely than the 4w3's to be reclusive and out-of-touch with the greater social world, and to compensate they adopt unconventional/eccentric ways of life. They can be purposefully obscure and enigmatic in their expressions, then have an elitist and contemptuous view of those who failed to understand them. They tend to withdraw for prolonged periods under stress which can leave them further isolated. As a result, they are prone to hallucinatory states and total alienation.

    Unhealthy

    Unhealthy 4w5's inhabit a terrifying fantasy-world of their own creation. Their emotional torments are turned inward, causing severe depression and self-destructive thoughts. While average 4w5's can romantize death, unhealthy 4w5's plunge into it.
    (from: Enlightenment - The Experience Festival)


    Four with a Three Wing: The Aristocrat

    Healthy

    Healthy 4w3's can be both successful and inspired. They leave a personal touch in all the works they do, while maintaining some connection with the larger world. They enjoy public attention but are also committed to private self-exploration.

    Average

    Average 4w3's can be provocative and attention-grabbing, whether through art or life. Their emotional turbulances are more on the surface than the more withdrawn 4w5's, and it often translates to immediate and widespread interpersonal impact. They can have problems with vanity and self-indulgence, and can resemble sevens in their love of luxury and pleasure. But unlike sevens, sensations are not sought in themselves but as another accessory to their fantasy identity. They tend to "hide away" once the problems with self-image caught up with them. They can also be competitive, play emotional games, and cause "dramas" of various sorts.

    Unhealthy

    When 4w3's are unhealthy, they are prone to hysteria and shallow/melodramatic emotional displays. They can have pronounced issue with self-image and shame. They feel justified to act selfishly because of their suffering. Narcissism and jealousy is also common.


    Four With a 3 Wing
    Fours with a 3 wing can sometimes seem like Sevens. May be outgoing, have a sense of humor and style. Prize being both creative and effective in the world. Both intuitive and ambitious; may have good imaginations, often talented. Some are colorful, fancy dressers, make a distinct impression. Self-knowledge combines well with social and organizational skills. When more entranced, often have a public/private split. Could conceal feelings in public then go home to loneliness. Or they could enjoy their work and be dissatisfied in love. Tendency towards melodrama and flamboyance; true feelings can often be hidden. Competitive, sneaky, aware of how they look. Some have bad taste. May be fickle in love, drawn to romantic images that they have projected onto others. Could have a dull spouse, then fantasize about glamorous strangers. Achievements can be tainted by jealousy, revenge, or a desire to prove the crowd wrong.


    Four With a 5 Wing
    Healthy side of this wing brings a withdrawn, complex creativity. May be somewhat intellectual but have exceptional depth of feeling and insight. Very much their own person; original and idiosyncratic. Have a spiritual and aesthetic openness. Will find multiple levels of meaning to most events. May have a strong need and ability to pour themselves into artistic creations. Loners; can seem enigmatic and hard to read. Externally reserved and internally resonant. When they open up it can be sudden and total. When entranced or defensive, Fours with a 5 wing can easily feel alienated and depressed. Many have a sense of not belonging, of being from another planet. Can get lost in their own process, drown in their own ocean. Whiny - tend to ruminate and relive past experience. Prone to the emotion of shame. Air of sullen, withdrawn disappointment. May live within a private mythology of pain and loss. Can get deeply morbid and fall in love with death.

    From: Descriptions of the Enneagram Wings


    Originally Posted by BlackCat
    From an enneagram profile that I don't own...

    4w3s are theatrical, dramatic, and effete. Compared to 4w5s they are generally more ambitious and competitive, and place a greater emphasis on appearing beautiful, desireable, and elite. They tend to feel entitled and exempt. They are said to be divas and aristocrats as their three wing transforms their sources of shame and defectiveness into art and expression, an aloof presentation that incorporates conventionally desireable elements into their style. They have a more glorious self-image and are more inspiration-seeking. They feel a connection with the magical as if they're part of a special class of people with secret powers. They are the outsiders who dream of magically returning to show others what they missed. The magical overtones in their persona are reminders of that to themselves. Compared to 4w5s they have more energy to keep up the act to get by in the world, but are also more likely to feel fake about it afterwards. They balance a greater ability to wear different masks with greater shame over losing their internal substance. They have an amorphous self-image that adapts to others but is in conflict with the core 4 fixation which sees it as "inauthentic". They are less likely than 4w5s to call out others for not being authentic for fear of pointing the finger back at themselves and their many contradictions.

    4w3s are marked by multiple dichotomies due to types 3 and 4 being opposites in so many ways: inferior/superior, being/becoming, self-conscious/confident, putting themselves down/glorifying themselves, withdrawn/assertive, emotional/flatlined, reactive/cool-headed, mired in the past/focused on moving forward, awkward/poised, fragile/resilient, easily discouraged/do whatever it takes, rejecting the game/conquering the game. While they will put up countershame smokescreens to get your attention and see if you are perceptive enough to see and accept the real them underneath, they may seem distant to even close ones to keep up appearances. Ideally they'd have a rich emotional life without having the ugliest parts of themselves exposed.

    Underneath a 4w3's more fluid identity their 4ness gives them an awareness of something truer and deeper within themselves that roots everything. Their 3 wing precludes people from seeing fully what is inside them including even themselves. However they know their personal awareness anchor is there no matter where their changeability takes them. They know on a deeper level their fluctuations stem back to a single consistent essence. Still, they wonder if they are fooling themselves. Despite their consistent underlying essence they lead an inconsistent life and wonder if they are being true to themselves. They try to balance selling themselves out in the real world with hanging out amongst the "keeping it real" crowd. They are more likely to go the distance in their career due to their three wing before their fourness causes them to sabotage themselves. In extreme cases 4w3s totally give up on life after finally "making it".


    4w5s have a harsher edge than 4w3s and are the true outsiders of the enneagram. They tend to be more intellectual and introspective. They are more likely to philosophize their inner reality. Many 4w5s have an unflinching "this is me so deal with it" persona that's harder and crustier in comparison to 4w3s. They tend to be absurdly original or profoundly eclectic. Either way they have a more "take it or leave it" attitude and are more likely to direct a critical edge at others. Their persona serves more to redirect their shame away from their vulnerable self behind it in contrast to the 4w3 whose more shapeshifting persona facilitates relating to people. The more shame a 4w5 feels the more they implode, or in some cases amplify their persona as a countershame response. As a result 4w5s are more likely to present a more bizarre and even grotesque image in some instances that reflects their feelings of defectiveness combined with a fascination for the macabre that their five wing brings.

    4w5s have a great pride in staying "true to themselves no matter what" amidst what changes in the world around them. They accept being isolated from others and are personally invested in their self-image enough to stick with it through thick and thin. They are equally proud of suffering for their weirdness as paying the price for being who they are only makes them feel even more authentic about themselves. It illustrates how they are too complex to be understood by the unworthy who lack the perception to decode their many layers to understand the real them.

    Suffering for their internal self-image serves to reinforce their authenticity. The more they suffer for it the more they cling to their internal self-image and 4w5s wear their lack of compromise as a badge of honor for being true to themselves. "I'm completely true to myself and no one can take that from me." They mythologize their own personal tragedy. On the flip side being double-withdrawn they have less of a will to deal with the world and feel more overwhelmed by it. Despite seeking meaning in everything they are more likely to tend towards nihilism. Combine that with being even more true to themselves in response to their suffering and they become more and more disconnected from the world. In a self-destructive cycle the 4w5 holds his head high at never selling himself out like others, but ironically has little to nothing to show for it since he's actualized his identity with futile concepts that have no basis in reality. A feeling of hopelessness sets in and he withdraws from the world more permanently.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #43
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    because you're like a gwen stefani style of enfp!!
    I do love her style

    Attached Images Attached Images
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    My ENTP radar sort of works as.. a warning system, rather than a beacon

    I am currently tinkering with it to ehm, adjust that orientation potentially though
    What do you mean?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    You are right, it is my 4 rejecting these my w3 and embracing w5 as my true identity. I was taught that attention whoring was evil, that acting and failing was the mark of an idiot and the pursuit of knowledge was essential, so that might have something to do with it.
    Thanks for the description, I see where you're coming from now. I'd say your dominant wing is the 3, though I don't really know you personally, and it wouldn't be the first time I'm wrong. Your posts seem to point to the direction of worth and desirability, especially the one I quoted. Most 4w3 would have issue with the 3-wing, the 4w5 not so much, haha go figure. If they don't, then chances are they are not a 4w3 or even an e3. It's like counter-envy. Just because someone scoffs at the idea of envying others and acts high and mighty about it, doesn't mean that they aren't envious. Actually the fact that they are so preoccupied with it in the first place implies that they may indeed be very envious.

    Also, are you trying to relate to the descriptions? I wouldn't trust the descriptions so much. I relate to all the 4 descriptions, including the 4w5, and your story about being a hermit/socially isolated reminds me of myself. When people think of 4w3 they probably imagine Prince, M. Jackson, Boy George, or some other wildly absurd artist. The 3-wing doesn't necessarily make someone an attention whore or a try-hard. It's influence is subtle and not always as transparent. It's a double image type, and core 4 makes them come across as self-conscious and unnatural (inability to relate). Does it make sense to you that blatant attention whoring is the norm for the type?

    I think they come across as more like this in real life (instinct stacking varies):




  6. #46
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    What do you mean?
    ...what do you mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Thanks for the description, I see where you're coming from now. I'd say your dominant wing is the 3, though I don't really know you personally, and it wouldn't be the first time I'm wrong. Your posts seem to point to the direction of worth and desirability, especially the one I quoted. Most 4w3 would have issue with the 3-wing, the 4w5 not so much, haha go figure. If they don't, then chances are they are not a 4w3 or even an e3. It's like counter-envy. Just because someone scoffs at the idea of envying others and acts high and mighty about it, doesn't mean that they aren't envious. Actually the fact that they are so preoccupied with it in the first place implies that they may indeed be very envious.

    Also, are you trying to relate to the descriptions? I wouldn't trust the descriptions so much. I relate to all the 4 descriptions, including the 4w5, and your story about being a hermit/socially isolated reminds me of myself. When people think of 4w3 they probably imagine Prince, M. Jackson, Boy George, or some other wildly absurd artist. The 3-wing doesn't necessarily make someone an attention whore or a try-hard. It's influence is subtle and not always as transparent. It's a double image type, and core 4 makes them come across as self-conscious and unnatural (inability to relate). Does it make sense to you that blatant attention whoring is the norm for the type?

    I think they come across as more like this in real life (instinct stacking varies):



    ..so what do you suggest I base my assessment on? The actual 3 and 5 profiles? I did that as well. I dont relate to the 3 at all. I dont have the stamina, willpower nor the actual confidence to go out in the world and achieve things. In fact, it is a real problem for me as I get too self-conscious. Books however, I get. Studying is something I do without being prodded. Hoarding information..yes, that is something I rock at
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  7. #47
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    What's changed regarding your sniffing/radar/whatever for ENTPs.


    Have you started getting nostalgic flashbacks with realistic sensory input from the memories themselves?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    What's changed regarding your sniffing/radar/whatever for ENTPs.


    Have you started getting nostalgic flashbacks with realistic sensory input from the memories themselves?
    No, Im deliberately tinkering with it to reduce my fear of them, and give them a chance.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    No, Im deliberately tinkering with it to reduce my fear of them, and give them a chance.
    Why do they scare you?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    ..so what do you suggest I base my assessment on? The actual 3 and 5 profiles? I did that as well. I dont relate to the 3 at all. I dont have the stamina, willpower nor the actual confidence to go out in the world and achieve things. In fact, it is a real problem for me as I get too self-conscious. Books however, I get. Studying is something I do without being prodded. Hoarding information..yes, that is something I rock at
    Eh, it's not something that I'm capable of explaining as in-depth as I would like to, more like a vibe at this point. There are stuff in your posts that point to looking outward for what is acceptable and not acceptable, and you seem to have shifted your self-image accordingly, which points to either a 3-wing or a one of the relating types like e6/e9 (they may look towards approval as well). You've also indicated that you were taught that attention whoring was bad and seemed to have attributed it to the 3-wing, which puts some negative bias when it comes to self-typing. I would imagine a 4w5 to be crustier and drier. The combination of double withdrawn and having a head type for a dominant wing.

    Though if you say that you relate more to 5-wing, then you're a 4w5. I was just throwing around my 2 cents. I have one question though, you are still not certain of a dominant wing right? I see you listed as 4dw under your avatar.

    Edit: Actually now that I think about it, if you are a 4w3, which is double image type, then it would be more obvious and it would come across as more "conscious" in your writing, avatar, and overall online persona.

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