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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    interesting! would you care to elaborate?
    Soon, but the forum is probably going to go down in a minute, so in the meantime I'll write up my reasons.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    Soon, but the forum is probably going to go down in a minute, so in the meantime I'll write up my reasons.
    okay
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    interesting! would you care to elaborate?
    Here's my response

    Fi was blatantly obvious through-out the whole faux-individual questionnaire. Yohan in very fucking driven by his own personal sense of right and wrong, with enough passionate conviction to choke a bull. I went with Se when I initially read this: "I want to experience what’s it’s like to be young. I want to laugh, have fun, be silly and not have to give a damn about all these things happening in my life. For the time being, I’m going through a largely reflective and solitary phase in my life, but I also have a strong thirst for adventure and intensity and will be seeking a more harmless outlet for this". bolded seem to indicate Fi.

    But what also led me to Se was that he didn't seem to demonstrate any thirst for novelty nor idea seeking that would be characteristic of an ENFP. Rather his whole story of revenge seems very guttural; it was an action taken within the immediate context of the world against a tangible threat, and followed through realistically, and now that it has been completed, Yohan can go one to experience life to its fullest; that's Se.

    This lead to Yohan either being: ISFP, ESFP, ENTJ, or INTJ.

    However from what you posted, even though his Fi seems strong, there's enough instances where it seems that he's willing to forsake harmony or compassion for the sake of completing his goals and enacting justice. I mean this guy planned an extensive scheme to accomplish his goals, including using military to his advantage. This would eliminate ISFP, as he's no Te inferior. He's also no Fi inferior, nor even tertiary for that matter. So ESFP would make the most sense.

    Enneagram wise, he's primarily an 8. He's not really image driven (so he's not within the head triad), nor does he express any anxiety concerning the dangers of the world (not head driven, at least not 5 or 6), rather his primary focus is revenge; against his father, and those who would ever seek to harm him or his loved ones. He has balls of god damn iron and a will of steel, with the temperament of a god-like warrior. However, even though he's calm for the most part, he still has burst of uncontrollable rage and bloodlust. It is for this reason that I choose 8w9. He's sx/sp for the sheer fact that he is very focused on close/personal relationships with a great degree of intensity and protection for loved ones (sx), while not at all concerned with grand world affairs nor group status (So).

    Tri-type wise I choose 7w8 simply because he also seem to be a care-free, easygoing kind of person who want to enjoy life, but is also very confidant and decisive. 4w5 because he isn't image focused at all, and what he thinks of himself if personal only to him and not to what others say; like how he is shocked at the idea of becoming the image of the thing that he hates (his father), but otherwise disregards the judgments of others as unimportant.

    Socionics wise, he's extremely forceful (Se) and has a strong sense of compassion (Fi). I know I'm not that well versed in socionics, but SEE (ESFp) seemed like the best fit type.

  4. #14
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    @Savage Idealist
    - very thorough analysis
    - ESFP is worth considering I have trouble seeing an ESFP doing the amount of planning he does though
    - ironically enough, your analysis made me rethink INTJ. he's a brilliant strategist, graduates college at 14 and is kind of like a Game of Thrones era version of Lelouch vi Britannia. also, while he has pretty good Se, he's not very comfortable using it. intense physical activity is very draining for him (in fact, he's rather frail) and he doesn't actually fight in most of the battles (I would have included this information in the OP, but for some reason I thought it was implied. dunb mistake on my part)
    - not seeing a 4 fix at all. I think he is a 2 fixer. he's really very feminine and has a nurturing energy about him when he never struggles with feelings of defectiveness, inferiority or brokeness (though he does feel like somewhat of an outcast, but more for circumstantial reasons). deep down, he cares a lot more about being loved than he does about fame (3) or forming an individualized image.
    - I see a 7w6 fix more than 7w8. he's more lackadaisical, light, playful and doesn't really do as much thrill seeking or button pushing as a 7w8 (when he's in 7 mode, he looks like an innocent, playful child. much more like the Little Prince or The Never Ending Story). 7w8s and 7w8 fixers have a more animalistic, crafty Id-ishness to them that Yohan really lacks
    - the toss up between 8w9 and 1w9 is I can't tell if he really does what he does more out of a personal vendetta or out of "this is wrong! I must put a stop to it!" his femininity, however, makes me hesitant to type him as an 8 (he's frequently mistaken for a woman and, despite his obvious masculine strengths, he has a personality more like Queen Elizabeth than he does your typical 8 war general). also, his personality is bipolar between this Christopher Robin-esque, sweet innocent boy lost in his imagination or playing with his friends and the ruthlessly violent, fiery revolutionary. if I could show you some of the scenes in my mind, you'd be like "what the hell!" as most people would go from wanting to hug him to being terrified of him in a matter of minutes (I already no what some of your guys are thinking and no, he's not a 6 lol). these traits make me think a 1w9 with as strong wing (9-ish, docile and calm on the outside, but aggressively vindictive, critical and punitive underneath the 9-ish venir). it's like one side is IxFP 9w1 Sx/Sp and the other is ExTJ 8w9 Sx/So
    - still, he seems way too reactive to be a 1. like, 1s don't typically explode in anger and delve into blood lust (though, I am again reminded of Cate Blanchette's portrayal of Queen Elizabeth in Elizabeth the Golden Age, in which she's pretty ferocious and has an extremely similar demeanor to Yohan)
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    SEE-Fi
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    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
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    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    @Savage Idealist
    - very thorough analysis
    You're welcome

    - ESFP is worth considering I have trouble seeing an ESFP doing the amount of planning he does though
    It's possible; developed Te can plan and accomplish a lot, especially when used in conjunction with Se.

    - ironically enough, your analysis made me rethink INTJ. he's a brilliant strategist, graduates college at 14 and is kind of like a Game of Thrones era version of Lelouch vi Britannia. also, while he has pretty good Se, he's not very comfortable using it. intense physical activity is very draining for him (in fact, he's rather frail) and he doesn't actually fight in most of the battles (I would have included this information in the OP, but for some reason I thought it was implied. dunb mistake on my part)
    To be honest, I think it's a rotten stereotype that all genius chessmasters have to be INTJ (or ENTJ). I think it's possible for great military leaders to be any type, although more often they're probably either ESFP, ESTP, ISTJ, ESTJ, INTJ, ENTJ, ENFP, and/or ENTP. Also, aversion to physical activity due to having a weak body does not exlude someone from being Se dominant.

    - not seeing a 4 fix at all. I think he is a 2 fixer. he's really very feminine and has a nurturing energy about him when he never struggles with feelings of defectiveness, inferiority or brokeness (though he does feel like somewhat of an outcast, but more for circumstantial reasons). deep down, he cares a lot more about being loved than he does about fame (3) or forming an individualized image.
    If he cares more about loving and being loved, then I would go with 2 (either 2w1 or 2w3).

    - I see a 7w6 fix more than 7w8. he's more lackadaisical, light, playful and doesn't really do as much thrill seeking or button pushing as a 7w8 (when he's in 7 mode, he looks like an innocent, playful child. much more like the Little Prince or The Never Ending Story). 7w8s and 7w8 fixers have a more animalistic, crafty Id-ishness to them that Yohan really lacks
    Sure, that could possibly work.

    - the toss up between 8w9 and 1w9 is I can't tell if he really does what he does more out of a personal vendetta or out of "this is wrong! I must put a stop to it!" his femininity, however, makes me hesitant to type him as an 8 (he's frequently mistaken for a woman and, despite his obvious masculine strengths, he has a personality more like Queen Elizabeth than he does your typical 8 war general). also, his personality is bipolar between this Christopher Robin-esque, sweet innocent boy lost in his imagination or playing with his friends and the ruthlessly violent, fiery revolutionary. if I could show you some of the scenes in my mind, you'd be like "what the hell!" as most people would go from wanting to hug him to being terrified of him in a matter of minutes (I already no what some of your guys are thinking and no, he's not a 6 lol). these traits make me think a 1w9 with as strong wing (9-ish, docile and calm on the outside, but aggressively vindictive, critical and punitive underneath the 9-ish venir). it's like one side is IxFP 9w1 Sx/Sp and the other is ExTJ 8w9 Sx/So
    I don't like the idea that 8's have to be brutal and domineering people anymore than 1's have to be cold, rigid, and 'overly principled/rules whore' kinds of people. While his outward behavior may seem 7ish or 9ish, his view and attitude toward life, his whole reason for being, is 8.

    - still, he seems way too reactive to be a 1. like, 1s don't typically explode in anger and delve into blood lust (though, I am again reminded of Cate Blanchette's portrayal of Queen Elizabeth in Elizabeth the Golden Age, in which she's pretty ferocious and has an extremely similar demeanor to Yohan)
    Which is why 8 fits better (non perfectly, given that your character is very complex, but it makes more sense for Yohan to be 8 rather than 1).

  6. #16
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    You're welcome


    It's possible; developed Te can plan and accomplish a lot, especially when used in conjunction with Se.
    To be honest, I think it's a rotten stereotype that all genius chessmasters have to be INTJ (or ENTJ). I think it's possible for great military leaders to be any type, although more often they're probably either ESFP, ESTP, ISTJ, ESTJ, INTJ, ENTJ, ENFP, and/or ENTP. Also, aversion to physical activity due to having a weak body does not exlude someone from being Se dominant.
    I'm not denying this, in fact, I think Alexander the Great and Attila the Hun were both Se doms, but the way they go about doing it is completely different, and I think Yohan's is more INTJ-ish (Se dom military leaders have a much more plan-as-you-go style to them. he's much more deliberate) his demeanor is somewhat between an INTJ and an ESFP (rather like an ISFP actually, but, as you said, he does not seem inferior Te at all). still, when you consider he's a natural performer, paid his way through college as a singer and has natural charisma/perfectly comfortable speaking in front of crowds, none of this sounds very INTJ at all.


    If he cares more about loving and being loved, then I would go with 2 (either 2w1 or 2w3).
    of all the aspects of his type to admit, this was the one I had the most difficulty with (I have an anti 2 bias, but he is undeniably a 2 fixer lol)

    Sure, that could possibly work.
    yeah, 7w8s tend to be more base; 7w6s tend to be more grandiose/head in the clouds


    I don't like the idea that 8's have to be brutal and domineering people anymore than 1's have to be cold, rigid, and 'overly principled/rules whore' kinds of people. While his outward behavior may seem 7ish or 9ish, his view and attitude toward life, his whole reason for being, is 8.
    Which is why 8 fits better (non perfectly, given that your character is very complex, but it makes more sense for Yohan to be 8 rather than 1).
    honestly, I really can't tell if his view of life is more 8-ish or 1-ish or if he's just an 8 with strong Fi or a 1 who's circumstances led them to take a more 8-ish view of life (no matter what type you are, being a military leader and going on a bloody vendetta will do that to you). I still lean 1 because he
    - views himself as an authority figure (rather than simply "submit to me mutha fucka"...even if he enjoys this too)
    - repeatedly places emphasis on standards
    - thinks a lot about morality (8s don't typically think a lot about morality. integrity tends to be important to them, and they will act quickly if they see injustice in front of them, but it's not something they spend a great deal of their mental focus on)

    PS: I'm rethinking @Viridian's proposal of ISTJ. though when I think ISTJ vigilantes, I tend to think of someone more like Rhorshack, Dexter Morgan, Saito Hajime or Teru Mikami (Yohan is not quite as rational, precise or exacting as any of these characters)
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    SEE-Fi
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    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
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    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I'm not denying this, in fact, I think Alexander the Great and Attila the Hun were both Se doms, but the way they go about doing it is completely different, and I think Yohan's is more INTJ-ish (Se dom military leaders have a much more plan-as-you-go style to them. he's much more deliberate) his demeanor is somewhat between an INTJ and an ESFP (rather like an ISFP actually, but, as you said, he does not seem inferior Te at all). still, when you consider he's a natural performer, paid his way through college as a singer and has natural charisma/perfectly comfortable speaking in front of crowds, none of this sounds very INTJ at all.
    Well, it's also important to remember that outward behavior is not really conducive to JCF, so much it's the reasons behind those behaviors. Also, having good use of Te, even an ESFP could show good deliberation when it comes to things like military leadership.

    honestly, I really can't tell if his view of life is more 8-ish or 1-ish or if he's just an 8 with strong Fi or a 1 who's circumstances led them to take a more 8-ish view of life (no matter what type you are, being a military leader and going on a bloody vendetta will do that to you). I still lean 1 because he
    - views himself as an authority figure (rather than simply "submit to me mutha fucka"...even if he enjoys this too)
    Why couldn't an 8 view themselves as authority figures? I don't think all 8's have this "submit to me mutha fucka" mentality.

    - repeatedly places emphasis on standards
    Could also be due to Fi/Te, although I don't see why an 8 couldn't also care about standards if it suited him.

    - thinks a lot about morality (8s don't typically think a lot about morality. integrity tends to be important to them, and they will act quickly if they see injustice in front of them, but it's not something they spend a great deal of their mental focus on)
    Hmmmmm, that might make sense. Question though: why is typing his character so important to you? Or are you just casually curious as to what his type is?

    PS: I'm rethinking @Viridian's proposal of ISTJ. though when I think ISTJ vigilantes, I tend to think of someone more like Rhorshack, Dexter Morgan, Saito Hajime or Teru Mikami (Yohan is not quite as rational, precise or exacting as any of these characters)
    Yohan does not seem like an Si dom at all to be honest.

  8. #18
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    Well, it's also important to remember that outward behavior is not really conducive to JCF, so much it's the reasons behind those behaviors. Also, having good use of Te, even an ESFP could show good deliberation when it comes to things like military leadership.
    true. overall though, he seems pretty introverted for an ESFP (though he does remind me a lot of King David from the bible who I think was an ESFP 8 Sx dom)

    Why couldn't an 8 view themselves as authority figures? I don't think all 8's have this "submit to me mutha fucka" mentality.
    the world view of an 8 is dog eat dog. 1s try to convert/persuade people to the rightness of their ways; 8s are more like "I don't care if it's the right way, but it's MY way!"

    Could also be due to Fi/Te, although I don't see why an 8 couldn't also care about standards if it suited him.
    key phrase. Yohan cares about standards for their own sake; 8s do not fixate on standards the way 1s do. enacting justice for them is a much more reactive/in the moment response rather than something they philosophize about. standards and self restraint as a whole are a function of the superego (relate to types 1, 2 and 6). 8s are likely to view standards as a useless obstacle unless they see direct benefit from them


    Hmmmmm, that might make sense. Question though: why is typing his character so important to you? Or are you just casually curious as to what his type is
    curiosity and boredom lol


    Yohan does not seem like an Si dom at all to be honest.
    agreed
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    SEE-Fi
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    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  9. #19
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    Maybe he's a 1w2 then. I would try to get imput from others who are also well versed in the Enneagram.

  10. #20
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    Maybe he's a 1w2 then. I would try to get imput from others who are also well versed in the Enneagram.
    generally people on personality care know more about enneagram than on this site. they typed him as an ENFP 1w2>6w7>2w3 Sx/So (I think his 7 fix is obvious as hell though)
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

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